THE THREAD!!!

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo
Terrorism hadnt been invented yet.

Nonsense. The cult of the Assassins, led by the Persian Ismaili Hassan-i-Sabah was founded in 1090. Their methods included what we would consider to be terrorism today.

[Onime No Kyo]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

Were there Cossacks? lot's of big, ugly cossacks? [:D]

Give that man a cigar! Although to be fair, Cossacks are generally ugly, and usually big.

I'll give you one more. The big, ugly Cossacks were also in Georgia in the when the Georgians begged for Russian protection against the "warriors of Islam" and agreed to be annexed. An interesting tidbit which the western media conveniently forgot not that long ago when they were having that circlejerk about the mean, nasty Russian Commies oppressing the freedom-loving Georgians. Incidentally, I didnt see a lot of outrage about the more recent events in Georgia. I guess we only care when the Russkie Commies are involved.

I think when a lot of people heard about Georgia and the Russian invasion , there 1st thought was "Russians?In Georgia? What did they do, fly into Jacksonville then cross the border?" [:D] Sad, but hey. They are public school graduates. [X(][8|][:D]

Honestly now, can you think of another person in the history of the United Stated that actually wanted to invade Georgia besides Willie T? And even he would have rather invaded NYC, I think. [:D]

[Onime No Kyo]

ORIGINAL: Kwik E Mart

ORIGINAL: jeffk3510

Wife (in the middle of the night)- "Matt (our oldest) has a boner, what should I do about it"

Me - "Do what you do to mine. Ignore it" (rolls over and goes back to sleep)

[X(]...does someone need a trip to a certain type massage parlor with a happy ending?

[:D]

[Onime No Kyo]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

Did the "Founding fathers " resort to terroism? Vandalism , yes. Tar and feathers (a fraternity prank that got out of hand![:D]), yes. But not terroism.

No fair! Foul! Terrorism hadnt been invented yet. Even the Spanish during the Napoleonic wars didnt do anything that could be called terrorism, and they were a lot more p*ssed than we were. [:D]

I'd say that terroism was begining in the Napoleonic wars. But hey, that was 1800's. We're talking 1770's and 80's. So there! [:D]

QED. [:'(]

[Onime No Kyo]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve





Belive me, I know. I spent some time there in 1979, and on 17 December 1983 when I was a student there I became aware of it 1st hand when the Harrods bomb nearly went up in my (then) fiances and my face as we came up from the tube's exit on our way to a little last minute shopping. [:(]

Congrats on the INP, spambot, but dont you have a turn to run? [:D]

Actually a lawn to mow.....but I'm stalling. [:D] I need to take my time on this turn. Big plans, big plans. [:D]

I think OpSec is working entirely too well. [:D]

[Onime No Kyo]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

ORIGINAL: Kwik E Mart

ORIGINAL: jeffk3510

Wife (in the middle of the night)- "Matt (our oldest) has a boner, what should I do about it"

Me - "Do what you do to mine. Ignore it" (rolls over and goes back to sleep)

[X(]...does someone need a trip to a certain type massage parlor with a happy ending?

Should we all chip in? [:D]

The JeffK Relief Fund? [:'(][:D]

[Crackaces]

I was referring to Beslan, NordOst and a dozen other incidents which were every bit as horrific, soulless and unforgivable, which happened in Moscow and other parts of Russia that are every bit as urban and civilized as Boston and NY (which is to say that it was by no stretch of the imagination some spat in a village with fuzzy-wuzzies fighting amongst themselves). As I recall, the general western reaction to those events was something along the lines of "the f*****g Russkie commies had it coming for oppressing the poor Chechens". Maybe now the western public will begin to understand what we're dealing with here.

As for the other stuff, you are absolutely correct. What's more, the Russians have hundreds of years more experience with "warriors of Islam" then we do. They had successfully put down extreme islamist movements in the past. I'll let you guess how.

Can I go on record that was the trigger for me to realize that the Soviets were right all along [;)]

I have to admit as a naive 20 year old I thought we were doing the "right" thing in Afghanistan (1980 - 1989)... it took me Charlie Wilson's War and my previous context to force reflection and realize that we are headed for a disasterious confrontation of Islam vs. everybody else ..The Arab Spring in this context was absoultely an epiphany ... I beleive the Chineese who are playing the west vs. Islam card will learn too .. their Western provinces are heavily Islamic although so far successfully surpressed .. they too can have their "Islamic spring"

All this time the "Evil Empire" was our enemy come to find out something much more fudemental was going on in the world .... The strategy and tactics of systematic elimination of undesirables might prove to be the solution for Islamic religious fevor vs. our justice system/asymmetric warfare debate. The former is completely unaligned with the Western value system and the latter has proven to be quite ineffective. We are spending trillions and the enemy is spending millions .. not a good strategy for sustaining a long campaign ... Maybe the application of measured force like the UK applied agasint the IRA is warrented? I fear that measured force will not apply in this case because of the difference in the objectives and the distance in negotiable goals ... and the numbers ...

In the end I think Iran will force the issue and we will start civilization all over again .. [:(]

[Onime No Kyo]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo
Terrorism hadnt been invented yet.

Nonsense. The cult of the Assassins, led by the Persian Ismaili Hassan-i-Sabah was founded in 1090. Their methods included what we would consider to be terrorism today.

Nonsense yourself. Hashishin didnt practice terrorism. More like state sponsored murder.

[Onime No Kyo]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

I was referring to Beslan, NordOst and a dozen other incidents which were every bit as horrific, soulless and unforgivable, which happened in Moscow and other parts of Russia that are every bit as urban and civilized as Boston and NY (which is to say that it was by no stretch of the imagination some spat in a village with fuzzy-wuzzies fighting amongst themselves). As I recall, the general western reaction to those events was something along the lines of "the f*****g Russkie commies had it coming for oppressing the poor Chechens". Maybe now the western public will begin to understand what we're dealing with here.

As for the other stuff, you are absolutely correct. What's more, the Russians have hundreds of years more experience with "warriors of Islam" then we do. They had successfully put down extreme islamist movements in the past. I'll let you guess how.

Can I go on record that was the trigger for me to realize that the Soviets were right all along [;)]

I have to admit as a naive 20 year old I thought we were doing the "right" thing in Afghanistan (1980 - 1989)... it took me Charlie Wilson's War and my previous context to force reflection and realize that we are headed for a disasterious confrontation of Islam vs. everybody else ..The Arab Spring in this context was absoultely an epiphany ... I beleive the Chineese who are playing the west vs. Islam card will learn too .. their Western provinces are heavily Islamic although so far successfully surpressed .. they too can have their "Islamic spring"

All this time the "Evil Empire" was our enemy come to find out something much more fudemental was going on in the world .... The strategy and tactics of systematic elimination of undesirables might prove to be the solution for Islamic religious fevor vs. our justice system/asymmetric warfare debate. The former is completely unaligned with the Western value system and the latter has proven to be quite ineffective. We are spending trillions and the enemy is spending millions .. not a good strategy for sustaining a long campaign ... Maybe the application of measured force like the UK applied agasint the IRA is warrented? I fear that measured force will not apply in this case because of the difference in the objectives and the distance in negotiable goals ... and the numbers ...

In the end I think Iran will force the issue and we will start civilization all over again .. [:(]

If the Russian experience is any indication, there is only one remedy, and even that is only mostly successful. Assimilation. Eliminate the most entrenched and violent strata and continue to eliminate any vestiges of it that crop up, while actively expending tremendous effort to make local culture as much like your own as possible. After 70-80 years, the USSR had basically succeeded in suppressing all elements of radical Islam...until it was again reintroduced thanks to our friends at the CIA.

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo
Terrorism hadnt been invented yet.

Nonsense. The cult of the Assassins, led by the Persian Ismaili Hassan-i-Sabah was founded in 1090. Their methods included what we would consider to be terrorism today.

Nonsense yourself. Hashishin didnt practice terrorism. More like state sponsored murder.

I think the Judeain Zelots were the first real terroist killing everybody but mostly Roman civiiallian types for political gain .. but I might cite the Nubains who on occasion engaged in asymetrical warfare striking at what was thought to be within the bounds of friendly relations the farmer populations. One could argue that this is simple murder in the terms that the Bonnano family has a feud with the Gambino family rather than true terrosim vs. the state ..

Of course true terrosim is invented by the French .. the absoute terrorising of the ruling class by the want to be ruling class using tactics to solely impart force and fear for the means of politcal gain.

[AW1Steve]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy



Nonsense. The cult of the Assassins, led by the Persian Ismaili Hassan-i-Sabah was founded in 1090. Their methods included what we would consider to be terrorism today.

Nonsense yourself. Hashishin didnt practice terrorism. More like state sponsored murder.

I think the Judeain Zelots were the first real terroist killing everybody but mostly Roman civiiallian types for political gain .. but I might cite the Nubains who on occasion engaged in asymetrical warfare striking at what was thought to be within the bounds of friendly relations the farmer populations. One could argue that this is simple murder in the terms that the Bonnano family has a feud with the Gambino family rather than true terrosim vs. the state ..

Of course true terrosim is invented by the French .. the absoute terrorising of the ruling class by the want to be ruling class using tactics to solely impart force and fear for the means of politcal gain.

Are we discussing the Judean liberation front , or the Judean People's liberation front? [:D]

[Onime No Kyo]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy



Nonsense. The cult of the Assassins, led by the Persian Ismaili Hassan-i-Sabah was founded in 1090. Their methods included what we would consider to be terrorism today.

Nonsense yourself. Hashishin didnt practice terrorism. More like state sponsored murder.

I think the Judeain Zelots were the first real terroist killing everybody but mostly Roman civiiallian types for political gain .. but I might cite the Nubains who on occasion engaged in asymetrical warfare striking at what was thought to be within the bounds of friendly relations the farmer populations. One could argue that this is simple murder in the terms that the Bonnano family has a feud with the Gambino family rather than true terrosim vs. the state ..

Of course true terrosim is invented by the French .. the absoute terrorising of the ruling class by the want to be ruling class using tactics to solely impart force and fear for the means of politcal gain.

That sounds much more plausible than Mr. Nonsense, although I think the Nubians lived in a time and place where no one really expected the innocent to be spared.

[Onime No Kyo]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo




Nonsense yourself. Hashishin didnt practice terrorism. More like state sponsored murder.

I think the Judeain Zelots were the first real terroist killing everybody but mostly Roman civiiallian types for political gain .. but I might cite the Nubains who on occasion engaged in asymetrical warfare striking at what was thought to be within the bounds of friendly relations the farmer populations. One could argue that this is simple murder in the terms that the Bonnano family has a feud with the Gambino family rather than true terrosim vs. the state ..

Of course true terrosim is invented by the French .. the absoute terrorising of the ruling class by the want to be ruling class using tactics to solely impart force and fear for the means of politcal gain.

Are we discussing the Judean liberation front , or the Judean People's liberation front? [:D]

Have you mowed the lawn?

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo
After 70-80 years, the USSR had basically succeeded in suppressing all elements of radical Islam...until it was again reintroduced thanks to our friends at the CIA.

Awww...shucks. You said 'friend'. Consider that payment with a fully extended historical middle finger held high for our 'friends' in the KGB over the years. Their overt / covert support of the conflicts in Korea and Vietnam made those very costly affairs in American lives. I've got zero sympathy for the Russians and what their meddling in the affairs of others hath wrought in the 20th century.

Now, looking forward, if the ledger's square-perhaps we can work together on some of these things moving forward. We both have a vested interest in beating down the calls for an islamic caliphate in central Asia. I can't believe that we can't find some common ground.

Either that or we can just let your Russian 'friends', the Chinese and Indians deal with a Taliban resurgent and a failed Pakistani state themselves. Because that triumvirate did such a bang up job the first time around.

[Chickenboy]

Just caught the second guy. Some pretty speedy police work. Nice job, Boston, et. al. [&o]

[Treetop64]

Wow. Amazing work by the BPD. [:)]

[Onime No Kyo]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo
After 70-80 years, the USSR had basically succeeded in suppressing all elements of radical Islam...until it was again reintroduced thanks to our friends at the CIA.

Awww...shucks. You said 'friend'. Consider that payment with a fully extended historical middle finger held high for our 'friends' in the KGB over the years. Their overt / covert support of the conflicts in Korea and Vietnam made those very costly affairs in American lives. I've got zero sympathy for the Russians and what their meddling in the affairs of others hath wrought in the 20th century.

Now, looking forward, if the ledger's square-perhaps we can work together on some of these things moving forward. We both have a vested interest in beating down the calls for an islamic caliphate in central Asia. I can't believe that we can't find some common ground.

Either that or we can just let your Russian 'friends', the Chinese and Indians deal with a Taliban resurgent and a failed Pakistani state themselves. Because that triumvirate did such a bang up job the first time around.

You know, you really make me scratch my head pretty hard sometimes. By "friends" I was referring to the fact that some jackass thought it would be a good idea to arm and support religious fanatics with medieval ideas on government, relation of the sexes and quite a few other things based, seemingly, only on the notion that the enemy of my enemy is my friend. That idea doesnt even work in grade school with any consistency, much less the real adult world. As a result of the aforementioned jackasses actions, a region which had heretofore been relatively stable with regards to religious strife, suddenly regressed about 500 years, and I draw a direct causational line from that to 9/11. I really didnt think I would have to explain that, but there you, and you historical middle finger, are.

But you would like to go further by bringing in Korea and Vietnam. As you wish. Both conflicts had active duty Soviet military personnel involved in aiding the communist side. They were not KGB operations, as you seem to think. They were both conflicts fought on a national scale by both sides, albeit with significantly less commitment by the Soviets. The fact that you seem to be upset about American lives is what truly puzzles me, because as far as I can tell, American troops had as much business being there as Soviet troops, plenty of whom lost their lives also. Thats what happens in wars, even stupid, undeclared ones. It seems to me that the ones who should be really upset are the Koreans and Vietnamese.

But what really makes me wonder is that I think you have some sort of strange idea that American political chestnuts about "making the world safe for democracy" and such and such being "in American national interest" makes the least bit of sense, or has the least modicum of validity outside American politics. The fact that American actions based on these self serving ideas have gone unchallenged for 3/4 of a century does not lend them the smallest bit of credence since they were accomplished by indisputable force, not though any sort of international consensus. So as much as I feel that I'm telling a kid that theres no Santa Claus, I'm afraid I have to introduce you to the idea that the world at large does not give a rat's ass about our national interests and sees our attempts to make the world free for democracy as duplicitous, disingenuous, propagandist claptrap. Which is why you might notice that while foreigners might like individual Americans, they see our country as somewhat of brainless, insatiable beast.

Now, in a certain sense I agree with you. If the two sides in the Cold War had just left the rest of the world the f**k alone instead of fighting proxy wars, it would have been a much better place. In fact, I have zero sympathy for either side. If there was international will to cooperate, I think the US, Russia and China could have long ago put an end not only to radical Islam but a myriad of other conflicts such as the various bloodbaths in Africa. Unfortunately, every country has its "national interest" and theyre all equally asinine and counterproductive to world harmony. But until and unless the politicians of the world pull their heads out of their butts and start acting for the common good, instead of personal gain, not a thing will change. I dont know when this might happen but I'm 100% sure that I wont live to see it.

[nashvillen]

Well, it is a late Saturday night for me...

[nashvillen]

No one is around...

[nashvillen]

So... Learning from the masters around me...