Will there be A-Bombs?

[Mike Scholl]

You seem to have covered most of the bases for a working
model. I would suggest you might want to include some means
of adjusting the base forces. I don't know if they are going to
vary in composition the way they do in UV. or be more "fixed"
in nature. My suggestion was that they should be a fixed "base'
onto which players could graft additional "specialized companies"
of Air Service Troops or Engineer Troops or Stevadore Companies
to make them fit the mission for which the base is intended. But
whatever way they choose to go, if you change the air or ground
strength at a base you will probably need to change the capacity
of the Base Force supplying and servicing them.

You might also want to vary the compositions of the Merchant
Ship "pipelines" so that they will "feed" whatever redistribution
of forces you come up with. You might want to place virtually all
your "on map" supply in the forward bases that will support the
initial attacks while setting up "pipellines" to begin "stockpiling"
other bases that will supply later efforts (like the Marshals---for
an eventual advance on the Gilberts; or Truk---for the advance
into the Bismarcks and Solomans)

I'd call your request something like:

Japanese Redeployment---on or off. Go with the absolute historical pre-war deployment of forces, or allow a "redeployment"
that would allow the player to deploy his assets to meet the
requirements of his own offensive strategy (within the constraints
and limits of reality)

[mogami]

Hi, Presently base forces are some what fixed. But you can add other units to a base. (More support/AA/CD/Etc) But a hexes baseforce is label as such (Osaka Baseforce, Tokyo Baseforce)
I think they can be moved but for prewar deployment I would leave them where they are.

(WITP BF are not quite the same as UV Baseforces)

[Mike Scholl]

Originally posted by Mogami
Hi, Presently base forces are some what fixed. But you can add other units to a base. (More support/AA/CD/Etc) But a hexes baseforce is label as such (Osaka Baseforce, Tokyo Baseforce)
I think they can be moved but for prewar deployment I would leave them where they are.

That's great! It's more or less what I'd been hoping in the
sense that you can "adjust" the base to meet the support needs.
So it's really just the "support Companies" which would have to
be somewhat re-deployable. Sounds like we've got this all figured out---now if we can just get "Gary's Kids" to program it
we'll have the game we want to buy and play.

[mogami]

Hi, As always everything I place here is simply what exists at present stage. Everything is subject to revision.

Concerning landing on Japanese Home Islands
I just did a quick count of 240mm Coastal Defense Howitzers deployed in forts around main Islands of Japan. (there are also 150mm CD guns and other sizes) I counted 82 of these 240mm weapons. They cover the likely approaches and landing areas.
Of course the USN/USAAF would target them prior to any serious landings (I know I would not send landing craft in with them still operating) I don't think we will see any quick dashes to land troops in an attempt to knock out Japan early. (The main Home Islands have 30 bases)

The most promising looking area for a landing is in the North east
two connecting hexes Aomori and Ominato. (Aomori has 8x240mm
Ominato has 56 smaller CD guns)(This is on Dec 7th 1941)
Since every possible hex will have at least one infantry division deployed there will be no hex you can land on unopposed.
If Japan is still producing supply, these units will be supplied since most of these hexes are on railroads. I am assuming the allies would also want a base with road connections. (It would be a hard fight to push the Japanese off the few coastal/mountain hexes just to have a hex that did not connect)

I realize no one thinks invading Japan will be easy. Personally I never had to (or considered it an option) in Pacific War.
I can only offer my opinion at a very early stage in play testing that invading Japan is not something players should look forward to. What ever plan you devise will need to force the Japanese to surrender (or have an over whelming points ratio advantage)

I think the allies may be forced into several prongs for the following reasons.

The Southern Resource Area
Supply....I would not have a condition for Japans surrender that did not start with.."If Japan is out of supply...." (Out of supply would be defined as producing less then a certain amount of supply per turn)
While submarines can reduce traffic to and from this area I doubt
they can close it alone. The torpedo problems will allow the careful Japanese player to be more successful in both protecting
convoys and managing them (The Japanese sent many ships to the SRA empty and many supply laden ships that left Japan for base supply returned empty. One of the features of the new supply routine is TF's that are part of the auto routine will go pick up oil or resouce rather then return empty)
Long range bombers will need new/closer bases to assist the submarines. Your going to have to capture them. I think you need to at least go as far as Kendari.

Base support. There is a large open area between CENPAC and SWPAC. But each have a series of target bases that as they are acquired allow support for the capture of the next. These net works proceed in the direction of the home Islands. SWPAC's network also crosses the Japanese supply routes, While CENPAC's do not.
So the 2 prongs have different but supporting goals. CENPAC will aim for bases to target Japans industry by destroying the factories. SWPAC will adversely effect the Japanese economy by preventing shipment of oil/resources. Both prongs provide the benefit of capturing bases. (Japan loses the points per base the allies gain them)

(I'll count the large guns on US West Coast next.)

Singapore has 5 15in CD (only 3 were working when I checked)

[Mike Scholl]

As Mogami seems to be making a good case for the difficulties
of invading Japan "on the fly" I thought I'd mention a few other
reasons for a more prepared approach. (All of this is dependent
on the game accurately reflecting the physical realities of the situation---if supply and resources grow on trees then all bets
are off).

Number One, and most important. Japan cannot feed itself! And
do to the shortage of shipping, the entire Japanese Population
had been under ever more restrictive rationing since the war
began. By 1945, under the relentless assult of US submarines,
minefields, and aircraft, starvation was stepping on stage. The
US didn't know that for certain at the time---but as gamers we
do.

Number Two. Japan cannot feed it's Industrial Base. It's self-
sufficient in Coal, and little else. The entire reason for Japanese
Expansionism since the 1890's was to try to achieve a position
and empire such as Britian's which would allow access to the
raw materials needed to become a Great Power. Again, by 1945
her Merchant Marine was almost non-existant, being either sunk
or mothballed with unrepairable damage. Even without bombing
the Industrial Base was at a virtual production standstill. The
sooner the Allied assult on Merchant Shipping begins to "pinch",
the sooner Japan's "bite" starts losing teeth.

Number Three Bombing. Japan proved horribly vulnerable to
it even without the A-Bomb. Her AAA and Fighter defenses were
far below German or Allied standards, and her highly inflamable
cities much more vulnerable. Even without the shortage of raw
materials her industry was shutting down by 1945 as it's labor
fled to the countryside to escape the bombers.

While suspected, none of this was known for certain in 1945, and
so the Allies went ahead with invasion plans. They might have
anyway, for political reasons. But whether they did or not, Japan
WAS going to collapse by the end of 1945 or revert to canniblism.
The Military was hoping for an Invasion as a last ditch chance to
fight while they still could lift a rifle. As much for "honor" as in
the forlorn hope that this time they could defeat it and maybe
gain a peace. The A-Bombs could actually be said to have been
the best thing that could happen to Japan because they "broke
the stalemate" politically and finally brought surrender.

But all of the above means NOTHING if a player tries a "quickest
possible line-of-approach" to Japan and invades it. The Allies
spent all of 1943 in siezing the "jump-off" positions for their
advance and building and training the forces to make it. In 1944,
they WON the War in the Pacific by any rational standards only
to find out the Japanese weren't behaving rationally. 1945 was
basically "kicking the Hell out of a defeated opponant" because
the Damned Fool wouldn't admit he'd been beaten! But if you
"skip over" the gains of 1943-44 in an attempt to "shorten the
war" by direct invasion the situation changes into one that will
allow the Japanese a decent chance at defeating you. They'll
still have the tools to fight, and plenty of manpower. As the
Allies, you MIGHT be able to win anyway---but you also risk
recieving the kind of Massive Defeat that might have cooled US
passions enough to allow a negotiated peace.

[madflava13]

Mike-
Just a quick note. I don't have figures, but I recall reading that Japan was just barely self-suficient in coal. IIRC, she had mines that went miles underground and under the ocean in search of small seams. I believe many of the POWs had to work in these dangerous mines as well. I don't think Japan even had the coal resources to sustain a war-time economy (thus the China invasion, among other reasons). Does anyone know for sure, or am I just imagining this?

[Mike Scholl]

Originally posted by madflava13
Mike-
Just a quick note. I don't have figures, but I recall reading that Japan was just barely self-suficient in coal. IIRC, she had mines that went miles underground and under the ocean in search of small seams. I believe many of the POWs had to work in these dangerous mines as well. I don't think Japan even had the coal resources to sustain a war-time economy (thus the China invasion, among other reasons). Does anyone know for sure, or am I just imagining this?

Yea..., I know the feeling. You can never find the right reference
when you want it. By "self-suffecient", I meant to indicate that
coal was the ONLY "strategic mineral" Japan had in any significant
quantity. But you are right---even coal supplies were hardly
adequate without imports. The real point of my submission was
that Japan STARTED the war needing to import huge amounts
just to maintain a "bare minimum" economy---and without sufficient Merchant Tonnage to do even that while supporting
a military expansion around the Pacific. If the Allied Player wages
a sensible campaign and is able to "chew up" what Merchant
Marine Japan does have, then an invasion of Japan itself is
hardly going to be needed. If he looks for "short-cuts", he will
run the risk of meeting the Japanese Military on their "home turf"
while they are still capable of a real fight. Might "win" more quickly---but it's about the only way you could actually "lose".
Just pointing out that "rushing it" seemed a less-than-optimal
strategy---but one I'm sure some players will follow (and might
work against the computer)

[dtx]

An excellent book that looks at this issue is called "The Fall of Japan" - it gives both the US and Japanese sides to the issue. While many Americans look back at what we know now and assume Japan was about to collapse - this simply wasn't the case. Even after the 2-A bombs were dropped, and when news leaked out that the Emperor was going to surrender, a group of Japanese officers attempted to launch a coup detat to overthrow the Emperor and continue the war.

At Okinawa, huge numbers of civilians killed themselves to avoid capture. The Japanese saw foreigners as vicious sub-human animals. Starvation and death were seen as preferable to surrender.

Also - the A-bomb attacks were NOT the most destructive air raids against Japan. As posted by others previously, the firebombing of Japan had taken a tremendous toll in both lives and property and the Japanese just kept fighting. To confirm a previous post, the 2-A bombs were all that the US had in its inventory and new ones would not be available for quite a while. The US used the 2 it had in rapid succession to give the appearance that it had many A bombs. The A bombs gave the Emperor a reason to call for surrender.

[Snigbert]

I think the A bombs were more a psychological weapon, letting the Japanese know that they were going to keep dying until they surrendered and there was nothing they could do to stop it. When one plane can kill 100k people, they know there is no conceivable way to prevent a single American plane from making a bombing run.

Incidently, I was just watching the 'WWII in Color' documentaries on PBS and they showed some guys painting one of the Atom bombs, not sure if it was Fat Man or Little Boy but it was round with fins. Anyway, it was painted yellow and it looked like they were painting a smiley face on it. But I thought the 'smiley face' icon was from the seventies. Am I losing my mind or was it around back then?