Rock paper Shotgun on Slitherine and pricing.

[shunwick]

ORIGINAL: parusski

I like homemade strawberry-banana ice cream.

At last, the voice of reason.

Best wishes,
Steve

[wodin]

I never notice any developers coming to defend Slitherines stance (On their older games) in these sorts of threads..that maybe telling aswell.

[shunwick]

ORIGINAL: wodin

I never notice any developers coming to defend Slitherines stance (On their older games) in these sorts of threads..that maybe telling aswell.

They know they cannot win the argument.

They have already tried to explain that PON has been on steam, it made very little money due to the massive discounts offered. AGEOD left Paradox because of it. And now, hopefully can earn some money in order to support the game.

This, of course, is totally wrong. The game must be on Steam and continue to be sold at a massive discount because this makes business sense apparently and I fully agree that there is an elephant in the living room.

This bloody thread goes round and round and round and round and round and round.....

Best wishes,
Steve

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: shunwick

ORIGINAL: wodin

I never notice any developers coming to defend Slitherines stance (On their older games) in these sorts of threads..that maybe telling aswell.

They know they cannot win the argument.

They have already tried to explain that PON has been on steam, it made very little money due to the massive discounts offered. AGEOD left Paradox because of it. And now, hopefully can earn some money in order to support the game.

This, of course, is totally wrong. The game must be on Steam and continue to be sold at a massive discount because this makes business sense apparently and I fully agree that there is an elephant in the living room.

This bloody thread goes round and round and round and round and round and round.....

Best wishes,
Steve

warspite1

Yeah? well now you know how Dumbo feels...hey - maybe he is the elephant in the room?

[shunwick]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: shunwick

ORIGINAL: wodin

I never notice any developers coming to defend Slitherines stance (On their older games) in these sorts of threads..that maybe telling aswell.

They know they cannot win the argument.

They have already tried to explain that PON has been on steam, it made very little money due to the massive discounts offered. AGEOD left Paradox because of it. And now, hopefully can earn some money in order to support the game.

This, of course, is totally wrong. The game must be on Steam and continue to be sold at a massive discount because this makes business sense apparently and I fully agree that there is an elephant in the living room.

This bloody thread goes round and round and round and round and round and round.....

Best wishes,
Steve

warspite1

Yeah? well now you know how Dumbo feels...hey - maybe he is the elephant in the room?

I think he's the one eating all the strawberry and banana ice-creams.

Best wishes,
Steve

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: shunwick

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: shunwick




They know they cannot win the argument.

They have already tried to explain that PON has been on steam, it made very little money due to the massive discounts offered. AGEOD left Paradox because of it. And now, hopefully can earn some money in order to support the game.

This, of course, is totally wrong. The game must be on Steam and continue to be sold at a massive discount because this makes business sense apparently and I fully agree that there is an elephant in the living room.

This bloody thread goes round and round and round and round and round and round.....

Best wishes,
Steve

warspite1

Yeah? well now you know how Dumbo feels...hey - maybe he is the elephant in the room?

I think he's the one eating all the strawberry and banana ice-creams.

Best wishes,
Steve

warspite1

I think you are right - he looks a little quesy....

[Perturabo]

ORIGINAL: Sarge

I’m still trying to figure out how the bean counters figured this benefits Matrix ? they couldn’t have asked for better (FREE) advertisement or endorsement for that matter……NWS was always plugging Matrix new releases across the community why cut them out ?

I ‘ve spent a boatload more on matrix titles at NWS then I ever have at the Matrix store, many I wouldn’t have even bothered with despite the discount pricing NWS, same as with GMT HPS.

good luck with it..........[8|]

AFAIK, NWS is much less known than Matrix Games. Though yeah, it's a pretty big loss for gamers with lower budget.

ORIGINAL: Sarge

I’m starting to get an idea why David H leaving Matrix was never announced, many here have been supporting Matrix and Company for a decade + and understood their strategy /pricing . It’s becoming exceedingly tuff to make that argument with the current library of Slitherine and Matrix titles.

“We” are a small owner/operated “niche” hobby publisher was understandable back in the lean early days , this policy or argument is no longer valid to me or should be to anyone that’s been around to see the evolution of this company, hell I remember the days I would pick up the phone and just shoot the $hit with David. I understand that atmosphere is gone but also understand along with that is any pricing leverage imho ………………….. it wasn’t just the game I was purchasing , it was a small hobby store and the people involved I was investing in.

freemarket has nothing to do with it, I expect to pay a premium at “mom ‘n pops” , honestly I no longer see Matrix storefront in that light ………………………….just saying

What about developers themselves?

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

No it doesn't. but that is the current agenda of a few disgruntled.

And it isn't just software publishers. Book publishers should too. I have one book with two page 108s. Another with a page put in backwards. Guess they should lower the price now.

I happened to look at a later printing of Chandler's Campaigns of Napoleon some time ago. $110 for a book that hasn't changed in content since published. I have an earlier one listed at $95. And yet, people buy it.

Too bad there's no localized wargaming market like with history books. Generally, local releases of specialist books tend to have prices adjusted to local market like for example technical manuals or history books that cost 50$ in US, cost 50PLN in Poland, those who cost 100$ cost 100PLN, etc.
I recently bought a few translations of books that I would be unable to buy if I'd have to import them from the west because the local economy would turn their prices from merely expensive to insanely expensive.

That is Matrix Games used to have a deal with some Polish company but that company didn't localize the games and was selling them for some ridiculously low prices like 20PLN.
Interestingly, it was the same company that later kicked the founder of a planned technically advanced Fallout-like game project - Afterfall and instead of making the planned turn-based cRPG, started making first person shooters set in that world. Pretty shady company.

ORIGINAL: shunwick

Perturabo,

If that is true then all software developers (not just game developers) stand guilty as charged. I agree though that all software developers should carry the warning - This Software May Not Be Perfect.

Besides, it is my understanding (and again, I could be wrong) that AGEOD intends to resume development of PON and it was the ultra low prices and the low income from the game that caused development to stop in the first place.

There's also a question of games that are not only potentially bugged but already known to be bugged.

Though one thing that annoys me especially with Matrix Games is that they are still falsely advertising CMMT as having "Accurate and realistic modern equipment modelling" and "Accurately depicts modern tactical warfare and its challenges" long after it was proven that equipment data contains glaring errors, the engine simulates only WWII equipment and is unable to simulate ATGMs and modern tank armour, a newer version of CCM that was specifically updated to be vaguely accurate about the challenges of modern tactical warfare (stuff that is very characteristic for modern warfare like presence of civilians on battlefields, IEDs, combatants masking as civilians, night combat with asymmetric equipment, etc.) was made even before CCMT was released, so the version of CCM that CCMT is based on isn't anywhere near being an accurate depiction of modern tactical warfare, etc.
Not to mention lack of AI that is capable of attacking. Waiting in vain for enemies to show up is rather lame.
Meanwhile it's unfairly competing with games from other developers that actually bothered to at least try to implement these features.

[rodney727]

I just want to see this company grow and expand. Because I disagree with some things and express what I feel I am called names and told to grow up by the old time guard. Public perception is everything. It should be noted I also like strawberry banana ice cream with a heavy helping of dark chocolate syrup.

ORIGINAL: shunwick

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: shunwick




They know they cannot win the argument.

They have already tried to explain that PON has been on steam, it made very little money due to the massive discounts offered. AGEOD left Paradox because of it. And now, hopefully can earn some money in order to support the game.

This, of course, is totally wrong. The game must be on Steam and continue to be sold at a massive discount because this makes business sense apparently and I fully agree that there is an elephant in the living room.

This bloody thread goes round and round and round and round and round and round.....

Best wishes,
Steve

warspite1

Yeah? well now you know how Dumbo feels...hey - maybe he is the elephant in the room?

I think he's the one eating all the strawberry and banana ice-creams.

Best wishes,
Steve

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: rogo727

I just want to see this company grow and expand. Because I disagree with some things and express what I feel I am called names and told to grow up by the old time guard. Public perception is everything. It should be noted I also like strawberry banana ice cream with a heavy helping of dark chocolate syrup.

ORIGINAL: shunwick

ORIGINAL: warspite1


warspite1

Yeah? well now you know how Dumbo feels...hey - maybe he is the elephant in the room?

I think he's the one eating all the strawberry and banana ice-creams.

Best wishes,
Steve

warspite1

I trust you are not including me in the name calling dept? Despite the fact you once called me Pudding Pants in an argument, I like to think that we have risen above that and can disagree in a civilised manner without resorting to childish name calling...what do you say Mr Poopy Pants?

[rodney727]

LOL! yes of course agreed!

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: rogo727

I just want to see this company grow and expand. Because I disagree with some things and express what I feel I am called names and told to grow up by the old time guard. Public perception is everything. It should be noted I also like strawberry banana ice cream with a heavy helping of dark chocolate syrup.

ORIGINAL: shunwick




I think he's the one eating all the strawberry and banana ice-creams.

Best wishes,
Steve

warspite1

I trust you are not including me in the name calling dept? Despite the fact you once called me Pudding Pants in an argument, I like to think that we have risen above that and can disagree in a civilised manner without resorting to childish name calling...what do you say Mr Poopy Pants?

[shunwick]

ORIGINAL: rogo727

I just want to see this company grow and expand. Because I disagree with some things and express what I feel I am called names and told to grow up by the old time guard. Public perception is everything. It should be noted I also like strawberry banana ice cream with a heavy helping of dark chocolate syrup.

Rogo727,

I do not like some of the comments that have been directed at you either. Disagreements are one thing but childish name-calling is something else entirely.

You just had to add dark chocolate syrup didn't you? You are evil! Next you will be suggesting a topping of crushed nuts.

Best wishes,
Steve

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: shunwick

ORIGINAL: rogo727

I just want to see this company grow and expand. Because I disagree with some things and express what I feel I am called names and told to grow up by the old time guard. Public perception is everything. It should be noted I also like strawberry banana ice cream with a heavy helping of dark chocolate syrup.

Rogo727,

I do not like some of the comments that have been directed at you either. Disagreements are one thing but childish name-calling is something else entirely.

You just had to add dark chocolate syrup didn't you? You are evil! Next you will be suggesting a topping of crushed nuts.

Best wishes,
Steve

warspite1

Dark chocolate syrup? I missed that reference. Dark Chocolate Syrup? rogo727 is there no form of depravity beyond your sordid bounds? you are just a filthy pervert aren't you?

[shunwick]

Strawberry and banana ice cream sundae with heavy helping of dark chocolate syrup, crushed nuts, and a flake.

Best wishes,
Steve

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: shunwick

Strawberry and banana ice cream sundae with heavy helping of dark chocolate syrup, crushed nuts, and a flake.

Best wishes,
Steve

warspite1

Et tu shunwick?

[Rtwfreak]

ORIGINAL: shunwick

Strawberry and banana ice cream sundae with heavy helping of dark chocolate syrup, crushed nuts, and a flake.

Best wishes,
Steve

Don't forget the cherry on top.

Dammit now I have to goto SONIC and get me a Chocolate Sundae with nuts ana cherry on top.

[shunwick]

ORIGINAL: Rtwfreak

ORIGINAL: shunwick

Strawberry and banana ice cream sundae with heavy helping of dark chocolate syrup, crushed nuts, and a flake.

Best wishes,
Steve

Don't forget the cherry on top.

Dammit now I have to goto SONIC and get me a Chocolate Sundae with nuts ana cherry on top.

Oh Lord,

I want one. Give it to me now!

Best wishes,
Steve

[rodney727]

Well all need sonic right now!

[wodin]

Shunwick I wasn't talking about AGEOD as they are now part of Slitherine..I'm talking about developers of other games here that aren't part of the company and whose games that are getting on are sold at prices that I very much doubt anyone buys..there by they got no money in whatsoever. I know of at least one who has issues with the pricing policy of the older games and could compare the amount of money brought in from the games that weren't Slitherine exclusive so they could be sold cheaper elsewhere compared to the amount the games sold here at the higher price..This tells me the pricing policy for older games isn't in the developers interest at all.

[Sarge]

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

What about developers themselves?

how does charging $50-60 usd for Carriers At War help out SSG ?

[Hertston]

ORIGINAL: Sarge

how does charging $50-60 usd for Carriers At War help out SSG ?

In a direct sense it doesn't, as nobody (to all intents and purposes) will buy it. Same with most of the older games.

The rationale must be to maintain an ongoing policy, to keep the prices of games high so people don't put off purchase in the months after initial release while they wait for a sale. OK, Matrix do have sales, but compared to what we come to expect from Steam and Gamersgate (and despite the quoted comment at RPS I see NO SIGN WHATEVER of that policy changing anytime soon) they are less than awe inspiring. I can't remember the last time a 30% discount tempted me into buying a Matrix game.. if I'd pay 70% I wanted it enough to pay 100%. Despite the utter tripe from Iain (no offence, m8) about 'value' and 'worth', it's about future games from AGEOD and others. Anything released already is a lost cause and they bloody well know it, just as Paradox did.

What interests me is where Slitherene/Matrix will go now with non-exclusive titles. I'm too embarrassed to say what you can pick up the superb 'Achtung Panzer' or not-quite-so good 'Armada 2526' for online elsewhere at preaent. Not to mention those taken on when they were already bargain-bucket elsewhere, 'Matrix Editions' or not. How many copies of 'Officers' or 'AI War' have been sold? The last is a brilliant game, but sadly it's the only big seller the guy at Arcen has had despite designing three other very good games, so it's been pushed out everywhere and - long past the initial sales run - been available for peanuts somewhere or other long before Matrix even started selling it. I just can't see any alternative to dropping non-exclusive games completely as all but a very few will buy cheaper elsewhere to compensate for the prices of future exclusive releases. If the devs choose to sell from site X as well as Matrix and site X is cheaper.. they know how the market works the same as everyone else.

In short, the catalogue AGEOD games have very little to do with 'supporting' anybody, as few will be sold. It's all about maximising revenue from future games. If that works, good luck to everybody concerned but if I didn't already own everything AGEOD bar RoP I'd feel little guilt picking up box copies at what is very much the market price and, sorry Iain, market value. New games are a different deal.