While doing the next turn I came upon this. I confess I have no idea how supply flows work in this game sometimes. The Big Stack eats tonight!
Depending on distance from base and how well connected they are to roads, rail, etc., supply deliveries happen between once a day and once a week. In China with the poor road and rail connections, supply tends to be dispersed all over and putting a unit in the open terrain draws supply from the hexes around it. You found the right mule [yak?] paths and delivery day arrived!
Right, but in the Himalayas? [:)]
The hexside on the west is Allied, and the ones all the way to Paoshan are neutral. But Paoshan only had 32 supply last turn. Lashio's spinners want about 4000 more before it should release.
All I can figure is that the Red Army national HQ is in the Big Stack and they pull, I think, 25,000 towards themselves over time. I can't figure out where this boon came from. Chungking is flat, Chengtu as well. Mandalay is about the same, less fort-building. It's a mystery to me.
I don't have definitive proof, but since the LCUs way up in Northern China seem to fill out early, I suspect supply comes in from the USSR as long as the roads northward are open. No idea how much supply.
I considered whether the light industry at Urumchi [20], Sining [20] and Lanchow [60] could have provided the supplies in the north, but the total is only 100 LI and most of it is closer to the heavy demands to the south.
No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth
I had thought it was probably some-move, some-stay. Comparing to single-unit dots you can see in the close up it's different. They have a "2 pixel tail" and the stack has a square blob bigger than the other three. Looking at Prome you can see a 3-stack at rest. All corners are the same size and shape.
My problem here was that the jungle terrain graphic has some black in the mix.
I think Toungoo is giving up either the tanks, or they are already down the track in between and it's giving up more infantry to join the 18,500 men already in between there and Rangoon. The Chinese moving on Toungoo are strong, but not overwhelming. They can't beat the "old" big stack of over 15 LCUs.
It just occurred to me that if you really want more data you can go into the graphics folder in AE, find that particular map panel and do a 'preview' on it. Zoom into that area, and see what the terrain looks like without the unit/dot superimposed on it.
Will do. A good idea.
Edit: Took a look. The art files have no base graphics yet, so it's a little hard to ID the exact hex. But as best I can tell there's no black underneath. At best a very light brown.
I should have mentioned that there are actually two sets of map panels. One with the hex grid and one without. For this use the ones with the hex grid might be easier to use.
Depending on distance from base and how well connected they are to roads, rail, etc., supply deliveries happen between once a day and once a week. In China with the poor road and rail connections, supply tends to be dispersed all over and putting a unit in the open terrain draws supply from the hexes around it. You found the right mule [yak?] paths and delivery day arrived!
Right, but in the Himalayas? [:)]
The hexside on the west is Allied, and the ones all the way to Paoshan are neutral. But Paoshan only had 32 supply last turn. Lashio's spinners want about 4000 more before it should release.
All I can figure is that the Red Army national HQ is in the Big Stack and they pull, I think, 25,000 towards themselves over time. I can't figure out where this boon came from. Chungking is flat, Chengtu as well. Mandalay is about the same, less fort-building. It's a mystery to me.
Updating myself, checked the manaul. I remembered the 25,000 correctly, but it only works in a base, not out in the countryside. So the Red Army HQ didn't do it.
You could check the supply LOC's with the '5' key .. I realize that it will be all diamonds, but you will be able to trace supply sources ...
"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"
The hexside on the west is Allied, and the ones all the way to Paoshan are neutral. But Paoshan only had 32 supply last turn. Lashio's spinners want about 4000 more before it should release.
All I can figure is that the Red Army national HQ is in the Big Stack and they pull, I think, 25,000 towards themselves over time. I can't figure out where this boon came from. Chungking is flat, Chengtu as well. Mandalay is about the same, less fort-building. It's a mystery to me.
Updating myself, checked the manaul. I remembered the 25,000 correctly, but it only works in a base, not out in the countryside. So the Red Army HQ didn't do it.
You could check the supply LOC's with the '5' key .. I realize that it will be all diamonds, but you will be able to trace supply sources ...
I'll do that. I haven't in months since I saw it was diamonds, not the useful numbers I had in AI play.
I don't have definitive proof, but since the LCUs way up in Northern China seem to fill out early, I suspect supply comes in from the USSR as long as the roads northward are open. No idea how much supply.
I considered whether the light industry at Urumchi [20], Sining [20] and Lanchow [60] could have provided the supplies in the north, but the total is only 100 LI and most of it is closer to the heavy demands to the south.
I thought the definitive answer was the USSR provides no supply outside its borders until activated?
Urumchi is sieged and all its minor production is going to fort-buiilding. Sining has no Allied troops; it's the last base in China I get periodic VP penalties for. Lanchow is set to stockpile and is building Forts 5 with what it makes. Also has a pretty big garrison eating well. The hexes between Lanchow and the rest of China are thickly Japanese as well.
It seems like it had to have come from farther than Mandalay, like maybe Chittagong. Which is wonderful if true, but a "wow" moment for me.
Another very busy day. Won't post so much detail as yesterday, but it was certainly present.
1) FUDD continues unloading, racing against time and Japanese forebearance against attack. Once again shore fire is withering and the Allies take significant landing losses to mechanical devices like arty and AFVs. This is one example of how Japanese regular arty, not just CD, is sweeping the landing zones. Most of the true losses are to mechanicals though. Infantry and engineers are heavily disrupted, but will make it if they have time and supply.
Invasion Support action off Rangoon (54,53)
Defensive Guns engage approaching landing force
617 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Allied Ships
xAKL Santa Ana
Allied ground losses:
Guns lost 16 (8 destroyed, 8 disabled)
xAKL Santa Ana fired at enemy troops
Defensive Guns fire at approaching troops in landing craft at 4,000 yards
Defensive Guns fire at approaching troops in landing craft at 1,000 yards
2) Enemy subs are swarming toward the landing zones, but the RN has the best ASW on the board in this era. This sub takes penetrating hits and looses its forward tubes. Good chance it will not make it home. Before this attack RO-33 sank xAK Itria unloading.
ASW attack near Rangoon at 54,54
Japanese Ships
SS RO-33, hits 15
Allied Ships
DD Nestor
Another example. Fair chance this sub will not survive.
Sub attack near Port Blair at 46,58
Japanese Ships
SS I-154, hits 10
Allied Ships
xAK Zannis Cambanis
DD Napier
3) Air attacks on the landings are heavy once more. The carrier-based CAP is withdrawn, leaving very light coverage from Prome, and the Japanese extract their payments.
Morning Air attack on TF, near Rangoon at 54,54
Weather in hex: Severe storms
Raid spotted at 22 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes
Japanese aircraft
G3M2 Nell x 13
No Japanese losses
Allied Ships
DD Nestor CL Dauntless, Torpedo hits 4, and is sunk
Attacks are also made on Ramree Island where supply TFs are unloading. No Allied losses.
The Allies counter with AF attacks on Moulmein and Chang Mai.
Later, Japan attempts more TF bombing with fighters as well as Sallys. No hits are scored, but some Japanese are shot down. Much more could be done if the Singers bombing were suspended, but this is not done for reasons which soon become apparent.
4) The IJN cruiser force remains out of sight. RN Air and BB TFs withdraw to Pt. Blair or nearby and play no role today. The IJN TFs retreating down the Malacca Strait continue slowly in the midst of subs and minefields. My hope is damaged subs will take this route as well and be easier targets.
5) Dozens of rounds of unloading occur at Rangoon. The latest arrivals respond to shore fire and suppress a bit. Very large quantities of materiel have come ashore, but Japan has much more in defense. Viper Force is about half-way to Bassein, but as I have been reminded even when it takes Bassein, no retreat route will open until it also marches into the Rangoon hex and opens the hexside. There is likely not time to accomplish both of these events. But fortunately for the Allies, Japan once more chooses to bombard and not attack. The Allied armor position is strong and getting a bit stronger with landings. One or two more days, some more supply landed, and there is a bare possibility the Allies might be able to stand in place in a Deliberate attack. Much depends on how fast the forces marching from the north can reach Prome and be seen. I think it's likely Japan is waiting for the balance of the road-stack from Toungoo to arrive before attacking.
Ground combat at Rangoon (54,53)
Japanese Bombardment attack
Attacking force 30271 troops, 345 guns, 10 vehicles, Assault Value = 1993
Defending force 4554 troops, 172 guns, 267 vehicles, Assault Value = 267
Assaulting units:
6th Guards Division
14th Guards Regiment
5th Guards Engineer Regiment
112th Infantry Regiment
55th Engineer Regiment
5th Amphibious Brigade
22nd Recon Regiment
6th Tank Regiment
3rd RTA Division
5th Guards Cav Regiment
15th Guards Regiment
7th RTA Division
II./143rd Infantry Battalion
14th Tank Regiment
16th Guards Regiment
17th Indpt Guards Regiment
91st JAAF AF Bn
55th Mountain Gun Regiment
15th Army
7th JAAF Base Force
15th JAAF AF Bn
21st Medium Field Artillery Battalion
55th Const Co
29th JAAF AF Coy
Defending units:
7th Armoured Bde /2
19th Indian Division
I Aus Corps Engr Bn /1
B Sqn 3rd Hussars Regiment
7th Australian Div /1
2/1 AIF Pioneer Bn /1
2/13th Field Rgt /1
6th Medium Rgt /1
21st Light AA Regiment
8th Medium Regiment
RAF 222 Group Base Force /3
6) At Singers the Allies once more re-locate significant CAP from Batavia into the base. Once again Japan pays.
An initial Oscar sweep costs the Allies 9 for 2, and a second 6 to 4, but the bombers are not so lucky. 3 Lillys, 7 Sallys, 4 Bettys are destroyed. The strikes are heavily disrupted.
Then Japan attacks Singapore. The battle is huge, long, and very bloody. It results in grave Allied losses, but the worst drubbing to Japan to date. And the base holds again due to Forts and supply state.
Ground combat at Singapore (50,84)
Japanese Deliberate attack
Attacking force 157347 troops, 1692 guns, 668 vehicles, Assault Value = 5205
Defending force 42832 troops, 566 guns, 369 vehicles, Assault Value = 1041
Defending units:
11th Indian Division
1st Hyderabad Battalion
22nd Australian Brigade
27th Australian Brigade
SSVF Brigade
3rd Cavalry Regiment
2/17 Dogra Battalion
3rd SSVF Battalion
2nd Loyal Battalion
9th Indian Division
Singapore Fortress
3rd ISF Base Force
1st HK&S Heavy AA Regiment
112th RAF Base Force
1st Manchester Battalion
Singapore Base Force
2nd ISF Base Force
22nd Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
1st ISF Base Force
FMSV Brigade
III Indian Corps
111th RAF Base Force
109th RAF Base Force
3rd Heavy AA Regiment
2nd HK&S Heavy AA Regiment
Malayan Air Wing
1st Indian Heavy AA Regiment
3rd HK&S Light AA Regiment
24th NZ Pioneer Coy
110th RAF Base Force
Malaya Army
109th RN Base Force
7) The KB-ish TF (at least one CVL is with them; Akagi air units not sighted) continuing west, hits unloading TFs at Johnson I. hard. The USN has light CAP there, but my desire to finish outfitting the base to be overstacked made me over-confident. Empties plus several cruisers were sent howm before the turn, so what remained had only light AA. The USN takes hard losses, including two precious AOs, due to misplaced confidence the KB was only doing the grand tour to try to draw out the USN carriers. Dumb, dumb on my part.
Morning Air attack on TF, near Johnston Island at 164,112
Weather in hex: Severe storms
Raid detected at 111 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 41 minutes
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 79
B5N1 Kate x 19
B5N2 Kate x 107
D3A1 Val x 59
Allied Ships
DD Phelps
DD Jarvis, Bomb hits 1, on fire
APD Schley
xAK Exmoor, Bomb hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage
PC Taney
DD Clark
xAK Am. Leader, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Helm, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
DD Ralph Talbot
AO Kaskaskia, Bomb hits 1
AO Neosho, Bomb hits 1, on fire
xAK Yu Sang
AO Ramapo
xAK Alcoa Prospector, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires
xAK Laida
AO Kanawha
xAK Hoegh Merchant
Morning Air attack on TF, near Johnston Island at 164,112
Weather in hex: Severe storms
Raid detected at 22 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes
Japanese aircraft
B5N2 Kate x 9
Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 2
No Japanese losses
No Allied losses
Allied Ships
AO Ramapo, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires
DD Phelps
8) Yokoska SNLF lands and takes Padang on Sumatra's west coast. This again shows how terrible my naval search is right now, everything focused inward on the S. China Sea and Malacca Strait. No base force is seen. It might be possible to shift a few subs to patrol the zone. A couple of radar-equipped fleet baots are heading to CT now to be based at Colombo. They might do. Expansion from Padang by land is fairly slow, and Palembang has air assets to harrrass. It's past time for Japan to address Sumatra, but this is still one more thing to worry about.
9) Samarinda Oil hit for 3 hits from Batavia.
10) Lashio forts go to 5 and continue to build. Cocos I. goes to 3, ditto. Cocos is a nice little outpost for fuel and search planes. AKEs are heading to CT after CONUS conversion. One will probably end up here. Force Z still sits in Soerbaja waiting for a move on Timor, but if it's not coming soon I may shift Z back to Cocos to help with Sumatra.
Singers: The IJ have about 150K troops tied up here ... you have about 40K.
One thing .. he took about 8% losses and you took about 11%. Given the numbers, if he is willing to sustain the attrition eventually he can get Singers to a critical point. The 12K lost might be psychologically devastating maybe even unsustainable ...
"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"
Singers: The IJ have about 150K troops tied up here ... you have about 40K.
One thing .. he took about 8% losses and you took about 11%. Given the numbers, if he is willing to sustain the attrition eventually he can get Singers to a critical point. The 12K lost might be psychologically devastating maybe even unsustainable ...
Agree. Singers has already vastly over-stayed its welcome from Japan's POV. The disbaled figure for them is the most importnat IMO because it represents time. Still, if I were them I would re-attack in one day and try to get another fort level, or both. Thjose division are needed on Sumatra and Java very soon or not at all.
Singers: The IJ have about 150K troops tied up here ... you have about 40K.
One thing .. he took about 8% losses and you took about 11%. Given the numbers, if he is willing to sustain the attrition eventually he can get Singers to a critical point. The 12K lost might be psychologically devastating maybe even unsustainable ...
Agree. Singers has already vastly over-stayed its welcome from Japan's POV. The disbaled figure for them is the most importnat IMO because it represents time. Still, if I were them I would re-attack in one day and try to get another fort level, or both. Thjose division are needed on Sumatra and Java very soon or not at all.
Although I am begining to think your Rangoon raid is going in the annals of history with Dieppe [:'(] ... he is going to need to put pressure on you soon here too or this front will get completely out of controll .. Another month of tying up 150,000 troops and things are going to be pretty bleak ... it takes time to build up multiple layers of defenses ..
"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"
1) Operation FUDD drags on. Dozens of unloading operations with up to 900 shore guns slicing up the landing craft. Still, probably 70% of most evolutions get ashore, some disrupted. The first wave is out of ammo to supress, but a few of the later wave TFs do a paltry amount. The CLs are mostly sunk, the CA is out of ammo except for AA. The BBs don't fit up the river. So the merchants slog on. Reinforcing failure? One definition. But the LCUs are also standing in place, not showing retreat dots, and buying time for the heavy overland forces to keep coming, and for the Toungoo assault to move into that base hex unharmed by air attacks. A bit Market Garden perhaps, but so far Japan refuses to attack the landings.
I consider sending one LCU to open a hexside to the open hex south of Bassein, but that would show a dot and might spur an attack on the stack before the route was established. For now I think the only defense the zone has, if it has one at all, is the perception of strength, that I contine to funnel men and equipment in. FUDD may end with Bassein and Prome re-taken, strong garrisons in both, Ramree building as an air base and supply dump, Toungoo weakened if not in Allied hands, and all of Burma's oil still denied to Japan. That would put Japan back to "January Burma", which I could live with. But many fine LCUs would be lost in the process, including a fair portion of the theater armor.
For today, the landings have not collapsed, so I won't go buying more troubles.
2) The I-boats seen in Rangoon yesterday seem to have brought mines. xAK San Alvaro strikes one and eventually sinks. xAP Changte also, but survives for today and continues unloading. Additionally, I-121 torpedoes and snks unloading xAK Caithness, and I-122 attacks xAKL Kalarand on the surface. She will probably sink tomorrow. My guess is these subs transited the Malaccan Strait; going home will be more difficult than the coming in.
3) Air attacks near Rangoon slack off markedly. RN CAP is still elsewhere, but additional assets are moved to Prome and the LRCAP over the landings helps disrupt. Fighters again do low-nav attacks, but the surviving AA platforms cut them up pretty badly. The 60kg bombs, when they hit, usually do 20-30 points of system damage to an xAKL, but little float. It takes multiple hits to threaten the ship's survival. There are also a few escorted Mary attacks which score a hit on an xAP, but also lose planes for the effort from CA AA.
The Allies sweep Toungoo and find no CAP there, perhaps a good sign for the coming battle. They also bomb Moulmein (finding 25 Zeros on CAP, perhaps covering transiting response LCUs), and Chang Mai for air field damage. Chang Mai reads as having a garrison of about 3000 plus some AFVs. The three Chinese corps approaching will reassess the cross-river attack when they get closer.
4) The landing at Padang is bombed by 2E and 4E from Palembang and Batavia for light casualties. Subs are moved toward the west coast of Sumatra, and Force Z will be moved back to Cocos I. This coast will be watched. I expect either a lateral expansion north and south from Padang to take open bases and give air fields, or additional, heavier landings at Padang and a drive to sever Oosthaven from Palembang, with the latter the ultimate target. Palembang has over 170,000 supply and is half-way to Forts 5 now. A stiffening US LCU is inbound to CT for use there. There are no PPs to buy out additional US infantry right now. But Palembang will be a tough fight for Japan, especially if Batavia is open and Force Z is alive. BB Arizona has left CT for basing in Colombo. When Oklahoma and Pensylvania come out of EC in six weeks or so they also will proceed to CT. Additional USN subs will also get IO duty in 1942.
5) Batavia B-17s hit Brunei Oil for 1 point.
6) Japan lands at Boela, the other B-base holding oil inventory. A Dutch sub is waiting, but does not engage. This is the last easy petroleum available to Japan on the map. Everything else will be a hard fight and very good chances of field destruction in the battle. Scen 2 gives Japan a pass on fuel in 1942, but eventualy they must have more or stop moving the fleet around. My intel shows over 300 ships sitting at Tokyo today.
7) Japan bombards at Rangoon:
Ground combat at Rangoon (54,53)
Japanese Bombardment attack
Attacking force 48032 troops, 518 guns, 73 vehicles, Assault Value = 2003
Defending force 5520 troops, 207 guns, 319 vehicles, Assault Value = 279
The Allies also bombard, but infict no casualties. This is more for psychological reasons than anything else.
8) At Johnson I. the remaining TFs withdraw toward Pearl. The base has enough supply to remain overstacked for awhile. Interestingly, in my turn email I said simply "Good job at Johnson." Mike responded that Johnson was not the prize he had been after; it was a consolation. I take it to mean this says he hoped I would sortie the USN carriers to fight. I noticed last turn that the Kate-to-Val ratio in his Johnson attack was very Kate-heavy, suggesting he might have swapped out for Range 8 planes. But Homie don't play that; I ordered Hornet and Yorktown into upgrade this turn. The carriers sit. I don't have the KB fetish so common around the forum. There will come a time, but this wasn't it.
With 2000 AV already at Rangoon I can´t understand why he isn´t counter attacking already? He should be able to wipe you out pretty easily?
I think he's waiting for the rest of the road stack coming from Toungoo. One thing Mike has been consistent about is not wasting or over-risking LCUs. Also, since I don't have a retreat path, the more I put ashore the more he bags.
Looking at the individual LCUs in Tracker they have recovered a great deal of disruption and fatigue since the landings, but they are greatly overmatched. They are all at 100% supply of course; I sent the remnants of most of the TFs with supply left to either Pt. Blair or Akyab/Ramree. My only hope at Rangoon is the AFV ratio.
Waiting for the movie right now. Might have it before Mike goes to work.
I´ll keep my fingers crossed but once he attacks I think those troops are gone! [:(] If you lose the majority of the Oz and Indian divisions it will be quite a while before you will have the squads to fill them out. I rebuilt one of the Indian divisions killed off at Singers. Wasn´t until late 43 I had enough squads to let it fill out. Brit Squads are even more precious.
I´ll keep my fingers crossed but once he attacks I think those troops are gone! [:(] If you lose the majority of the Oz and Indian divisions it will be quite a while before you will have the squads to fill them out. I rebuilt one of the Indian divisions killed off at Singers. Wasn´t until late 43 I had enough squads to let it fill out. Brit Squads are even more precious.
I think the Moose has a strategy here. In terms of blood, time, and space . he is trading blood for space and time. That big stack moving southward will have to take the time to rout the forces in Rangoon, and then repdeploy to a MLR to save Burma. Meanwhile in Singers the clock is ticking ... absorbing even more forces in a battle of attrition. I am thinknig eventually the Moose is springing out in other places using the USN/USA forces ...
"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"
If you look up at the scoreboard high over the centerfield fence, it reads: Team Bullwinkle: 10 Runs 15 Hits 0 Errors
The Moose has played very well and quite out of the box. He's bumped his nose a bit on this one, so that perhaps he'll have his first fielding error of the game, but The Man, The Moose, The Immortal is a force to be reckoned with.
Once this game ends one o' these days, how about these for potential matchups: Moose vs. GreyJoy; or, Moose vs. Poultry Lad?
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
I´ll keep my fingers crossed but once he attacks I think those troops are gone! [:(] If you lose the majority of the Oz and Indian divisions it will be quite a while before you will have the squads to fill them out. I rebuilt one of the Indian divisions killed off at Singers. Wasn´t until late 43 I had enough squads to let it fill out. Brit Squads are even more precious.
Fortunately, if I lose the whole stack--a good possibility right now--it's not THAT bad. Bad, yes. But most of the heavy forces are land-bound and marching from the north. Only a piece of Aussie 7th is there; it's in pieces due to Ramree. There is arty and armor I don't want to lose, but . . .
Having the Chinese in Burma changes a lot of the common maths. So does him not having to pay PPs to come into China.
At minimum this operation has taught me a few things about response speed and recon. Japan is going to win some in any game. This may be one of them.
