Unity of Command Bundle $7.49

[VPaulus]

It's WIP. Making slow but steady progress on iPad version.
The details will only be announced nearer the release.

[Rtwfreak]

ORIGINAL: rosseau

All I wanted to do was brighten the day of a fellow wargamer who may not have the discretionary income that some of us apparently have. It may be me one day [:)]

And if you saw my games list, I don't think Matrix would be throwing me out of the shop [8|]

Sorry Erik, you posted one second before me or I would not have bothered. You know where my heart is.

If you really wanted to brighten the day of a fellow wargamer you could just buy me/us a copy and gift it to me/us???? [:'(]

[IainMcNeil]

Rogo you are either deliberately trying to irritate other people or completely unaware of the impact of your statements. This is a place for people to talk about a hobby they love. You are spoiling it for them. Every incorrect statement you've made has been called out and rather than admit you are wrong you just make a new incorrect statement. When you lost the price argument it became about research. Then it was customer service and you were clearly shouted down. Then it was about iPad Panzer Corps being late or implying we were not doing it. Now Slitherine are apparently in trouble and know things have to change? Seriously on what measure are are we in trouble?

Sales volume - no - explained
Sales value - no - explained
Old game sales - no - explained
New blood - no - explained
Customer support - no - explained
New developers - no - explained
Release schedule - no - explained

On every measure things are booming

We try and operate an open forum but that requires a level of responsibility by the users. You have not adhered to the basic forum etiquette and rules. You hide behind this idea that you are a "yes man", but this is just a way to justify unjustified behaviour.

Treat this as an official warning that you will be banned if you persist in this attitude.

Sensible debate is fine but not what we have seen from you in the past week. Normally we deal with these things privately but I have no doubt you would announce it publicly so am forced to deal with it like this.

I am sorry to everyone has been forced to endure the last few days and hope things can now return to normal.

[JudgeDredd]

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

Rogo you are either deliberately trying to irritate other people or completely unaware of the impact of your statements. This is a place for people to talk about a hobby they love. You are spoiling it for them. Every incorrect statement you've made has been called out and rather than admit you are wrong you just make a new incorrect statement. When you lost the price argument it became about research. Then it was customer service and you were clearly shouted down. Then it was about iPad Panzer Corps being late or implying we were not doing it. Now Slitherine are apparently in trouble and know things have to change? Seriously on what measure are are we in trouble?

Sales volume - no - explained
Sales value - no - explained
Old game sales - no - explained
New blood - no - explained
Customer support - no - explained
New developers - no - explained
Release schedule - no - explained

On every measure things are booming

We try and operate an open forum but that requires a level of responsibility by the users. You have not adhered to the basic forum etiquette and rules. You hide behind this idea that you are a "yes man", but this is just a way to justify unjustified behaviour.

Treat this as an official warning that you will be banned if you persist in this attitude.

Sensible debate is fine but not what we have seen from you in the past week. Normally we deal with these things privately but I have no doubt you would announce it publicly so am forced to deal with it like this.

I am sorry to everyone has been forced to endure the last few days and hope things can now return to normal.

This will be my last post here. The forums here have gone to the dogs over the last couple of years...and it's not just because of the likes of Rogo as you might have people believe Iain.

Before anyone educated at the School of the Bloody Obvious jumps in - I'm totally aware that this is only my opinion and I don't have to read or post here.

So I'm just going to make a couple of points about your last statement - then leave it
1. At the risk of being seen to be sticking up for Rogo, he's not the only person here who should be seen as deliberately irritating people. There are a set few individuals commenting on the subject consistently and simply adding fuel to the fire. They are extremely obvious and should be to you. Fine - if you want to point the finger at one individual, then do so - it is your forum after all. But it's really disingenuous to suggest he's the sole culprit. The grown ups on these boards could just ignore the posts...advice once given to myself by the legendary Erik Rutins many years ago (one of the few decent blokes still kicking around here)

2. Are you aware how distasteful it is reading your forums at the moment? New members must stumble in here, see the bar fight going on and bugger off. And again - it's not just Rogo. It takes two or more people to have an argument.

3. Specifically about your pricing. Again, for the most part I have no problem with your pricing. I think your new games are very reasonably priced given the work involved, but like most other I have a beef with the pricing of your older titles...particularly where there is a sequel out. BUT - one of your arguments for your pricing is the niche market...so how does that fit with

On every measure things are booming

Either it's niche or it's not. If it's heading "out of niche", does that suggest price reductions in the future? Just asking - don't particularly care. I'm more wanting to ask how is it prices are high because we're niche but things are booming?

4. And you do realise what this sounds like

Then it was customer service and you were clearly shouted down

What that is suggesting - which by the way has been what is being witnessed - is people shouting louder and more often than the other person. Again - I point you to other culprits whilst you point at an individual.

Do I like that any post that shows up, Rogo jumps in with a sideswipe at your policy? No...not really. Does it get any better when any one of your yes men who would "willingly pay $300 for game Y" shows up and spits some fuel on the fire? Nope. Does it leave a bad taste in my mouth when one person is singled out amongst a whole host of antagonists? Yep.

This particular post was about one guy informing his forum "friends" who may not be as affluent as some other gamers that they could get a really good game at a discounted price...and it turned into another venomous mess.

Just for the record this is what he actually posted

ORIGINAL: rosseau
Not looking to hurt Matrix here. I'm a regular customer and hope to buy all the new releases.

But there are those that really can't afford games these days at all, and could use a break. So go to Gamersgate just this time. I paid full for both, and love 'em.

to which I believe (on a different thread or this - who the hell knows anymore) one of your more ardent followers has suggested if someone can't afford a game they shouldn't be playing games (that's just one of the many ridiculous posts that you choose to ignore in light of going after Rogo) - I guess the point being what? Get a job? Get a better job? Run a gaming company? I don't really know. It was a ridiculous thing to say anyway. Why, if someone cannot afford a full price game, should they not be gaming at all?

By the way - to all those willing to pay $300 for game X - enjoy your niche market as it disappears if any of these developers or publishers EVER actually listen to your shite.

And demo's work. You should put some time into doing them right and you might see that.

Anyway - Erik and Matrix - I wish you all the very, very best. I do. Great company and you are (as I said) legendary. [&o]

[Hertston]

Well, speaking personally, all I've been 'forced to endure' is several paragraphs full of hyperbole attempting to justify an 'official warning' for posts perfectly compliant with forum rules that you just don't happen to like.

Might be just me, though. [8|]

[IainMcNeil]

It's true there are others who have said things they should not and if they persist they'll also get warnings. The attitudes here have turned very bitter and destructive and it's not good for anyone. The reason Rogo was warned is because he is heavily involved in the discussions that are creating this poisonous atmosphere and all polite attempts to move things to a more friendly productive discussion have failed. 2 others have also been warned privately ( one who spoke for us and one against).

There is serious damage being done to the community as its turning people against each other for no good reason.

We've tried to let it run without intervening but when incorrect info is posted we have to step in and then it flares up again.

It seems this subject is not one that can be discussed without it getting very heated. We really don't want to upset anyone or stop them having their say but when there are 6 threads covering it, it's out of control with nothing productive being said in them. Just bitter rants and counter rants. Each getting more personal than the last.

We'll discuss internally how best to get the forum on track. Suggestions on this much more welcome than more advice on prices would be appreciated! While we have extensive experience on publishing games we are happy to admit we have less experience at community forum management. That is something we've had to learn as we go!

[Rtwfreak]

I think a mid year sale would be in order Iain? <grinning bear>

[IainMcNeil]

Maybe I am over reacting so we'll review this tomorrow. It has been a frustrating week so will give it till tomorrow to make sure there is no knee jerk reaction.

The customer loyalty thing really hurt. Our entire structure is designed to reward loyal fans. We give early adopter discounts on numerous games, we don't cut prices after release to penalise early adopters. There are a host of things we do for our fans and the suggestion that some random RTS is giving more to their customers a 25% pre order discount pushed me over the edge:)

Let's see how long it takes for the to do a 50% off sales that means those who pre-ordered have been cheated...

Anyway enough for now - I need to calm down

[Dragoon.]

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil
Suggestions on this much more welcome than more advice on prices would be appreciated! While we have extensive experience on publishing games we are happy to admit we have less experience at community forum management. That is something we've had to learn as we go!

I would suggest at a certain point, for example right now, just merge all relevant threads about a certain issue (like this pricing thing) into one new thread. Then dump all the offtopic post found scattered in other threats about same issue into this new thread as well. For example the majority of the posts in this thread including mine.
Instead to close/delete post and threads, centralize them instead and just let it run freely, quietly while ignoring it. Because of the Internet nature and it impersonality, after a while even fruitful discussions come to and end as people are no longer willing to be convinced and it all become about "proving your point and showing why everyone else is wrong".

[Rtwfreak]

ORIGINAL: Dragoon

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil
Suggestions on this much more welcome than more advice on prices would be appreciated! While we have extensive experience on publishing games we are happy to admit we have less experience at community forum management. That is something we've had to learn as we go!

I would suggest at a certain point, for example right now, just merge all relevant threads about a certain issue (like this pricing thing) into one new thread. Then dump all the offtopic post found scattered in other threats about same issue into this new thread as well. For example the majority of the posts in this thread including mine.
Instead to close/delete post and threads, centralize them instead and just let it run freely, quietly while ignoring it. Because of the Internet nature and it impersonality, after a while even fruitful discussions come to and end as people are no longer willing to be convinced and it all become about "proving your point and showing why everyone else is wrong".

I disagree with Dragoons request and I think he is wrong. [:D]

[Erik Rutins]

I just wanted to add a note about distribution releases. Some of what you've all observed has also had to do with growing pains here. In the past, we had some extra bandwidth beyond our exclusive releases. Both in order to make available to our community releases that were not exclusives (but which we felt were great games) and in order to try to establish a working relationship with those developers which might lead to an exclusive arrangement in the future, we tended to include at lot of distribution releases in our catalog. All of these were treated exactly the same way as an exclusive release at that time, from release through support, though obviously we had less leverage over a non-exclusive developer than one that was exclusive to us and that was probably the main historical downside, that sometimes these releases were not as well supported as our own.

More recently though, the success we've had means that we've got more exclusive releases in the works with more developers than ever before, but we also already had more distribution releases signed up as well. There is often unfortunately a lag between the increase in workload that growth creates and the time when bandwidth catches up with the additional workload. There are a number of great games (I'm thinking especially about Achtung Panzer and Unity of Command) that ended up as distribution releases but at a time when we had to internally devote more and more of our time to our exclusive releases. Complicating this is the additional change over the last five years of widely varying price structures for distribution releases, where they are often on many other online stores and there's very little coordination on pricing. We did not have the internal bandwidth to monitor external pricing and we are not generally notified by these developers if the price changes elsewhere.

These issues then create a dual problem - first we can be seen as overpricing these games and second if we can't support them as well as our exclusive games, at the same time we become just another distributor. Neither of those is really where we want to be. We realized this internally and made changes to make sure we did not disappoint developers or customers, but unfortunately we do not turn on a dime, we're a bit more of a ship now that takes a while to change course. These releases unfortunately got caught in the middle.

There were two more complicating factors as well.

First on Achtung Panzer we've been trying unsuccessfully to adapt their updates, which are quite unique, to our update process. Communication issues have compounded the challenge there, but ultimately it's been an issue of bandwidth. Their updates work fine with our release, but the installation process is complicated and our customers cannot access them or be notified about them through the normal means. We have access to release additional expansions/DLCs for this release, but we wanted to sort out the updating before that happened, so it has remained in limbo. I apologize for that. We recently increased our production bandwidth and this is still on our radar and I expect it to be fully addressed this year.

Second on Unity of Command. We received news of an update and expansion to that right before the end of our production schedule for the year in 2012. We had a very full schedule and had a large backlog of updates to work on and release for our exclusive games by the time we heard about this. If we'd known about it earlier, we could have scheduled for it better but when it comes to distribution releases we don't work as closely with the developers and things like this often happen. Unfortunately, we had to decide what we could do with the time we had left before Christmas as we could not do everything. We decided to focus on getting the pending exclusive releases and updates out as to do otherwise would be unfair to our exclusive developers. We released Unity of Command: Red Turn and the new update as soon as we could in the new year. Apologies for that as well. On the positive side, with our additional production bandwidth, if the same thing happened this year we would not have had to make that choice, we could do both.

Going forward, we intend to support the distribution releases we already have in our catalog, but we do not plan to add any new ones (though an exception is always possible if it makes sense, but only if we can support it as we do an exclusive release).

Regards,

- Erik

[grogmaster]

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

Rogo you are either deliberately trying to irritate other people or completely unaware of the impact of your statements. This is a place for people to talk about a hobby they love. You are spoiling it for them. Every incorrect statement you've made has been called out and rather than admit you are wrong you just make a new incorrect statement. When you lost the price argument it became about research. Then it was customer service and you were clearly shouted down. Then it was about iPad Panzer Corps being late or implying we were not doing it. Now Slitherine are apparently in trouble and know things have to change? Seriously on what measure are are we in trouble?

Sales volume - no - explained
Sales value - no - explained
Old game sales - no - explained
New blood - no - explained
Customer support - no - explained
New developers - no - explained
Release schedule - no - explained

On every measure things are booming

We try and operate an open forum but that requires a level of responsibility by the users. You have not adhered to the basic forum etiquette and rules. You hide behind this idea that you are a "yes man", but this is just a way to justify unjustified behaviour.

Treat this as an official warning that you will be banned if you persist in this attitude.

Sensible debate is fine but not what we have seen from you in the past week. Normally we deal with these things privately but I have no doubt you would announce it publicly so am forced to deal with it like this.

I am sorry to everyone has been forced to endure the last few days and hope things can now return to normal.

So the true Iain finally comes out. Is this the technique you use when you censor articles about Matrix products written at wargamer.com?

I suppose it was just a matter of time until the censor police arrived on the scene to shut everyone up.

Typical Slitherine policy.

[grogmaster]

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

It's true there are others who have said things they should not and if they persist they'll also get warnings. The attitudes here have turned very bitter and destructive and it's not good for anyone. The reason Rogo was warned is because he is heavily involved in the discussions that are creating this poisonous atmosphere and all polite attempts to move things to a more friendly productive discussion have failed. 2 others have also been warned privately ( one who spoke for us and one against).

There is serious damage being done to the community as its turning people against each other for no good reason.

We've tried to let it run without intervening but when incorrect info is posted we have to step in and then it flares up again.

It seems this subject is not one that can be discussed without it getting very heated. We really don't want to upset anyone or stop them having their say but when there are 6 threads covering it, it's out of control with nothing productive being said in them. Just bitter rants and counter rants. Each getting more personal than the last.

We'll discuss internally how best to get the forum on track. Suggestions on this much more welcome than more advice on prices would be appreciated! While we have extensive experience on publishing games we are happy to admit we have less experience at community forum management. That is something we've had to learn as we go!

Iain, were not concerned about helping get your forum "back on track", because the forum is meant to be an outlet for customers. If you blatantly refuse us to discuss this topic with Gestapo intentions then you're obviously not concerned about the welfare of your clients/consumers.

This forum reflects the way in which you run your business. If you ran your business in a more acceptable way to your target audience, you wouldn't have this issue. So the world is watching what you do, now. What's your move? We've all become alert of your poor practices.

[grogmaster]

ORIGINAL: rogo727

I agree. Slitherine knows they have problem. I trust this has opened their eyes. When they try and BS someone who has worked in retail 20 plus years I called them out. And while slitherine has plenty of banner waving drones I'm not one of them. When I just picked up a game for 7.49 that they are charging 39.99 for I had to say something. When they say new games are announced they fail to mention that it may be years away from release. It's almost down right deceitful at times. I have said my peace. If others choose to attack me well then i have to respond. And this "thing" goes on and on and on and on....get it?

ORIGINAL: shunwick

Frankly, I think we need more threads on this subject. How many have we got now? Three? Four? Not nearly enough.

Parusski has once again nailed it.

Best wishes,
Steve

PS: I miscounted. We now have 6 threads if you include Grogmaster's attempt to resurrect an old thread (which I am sure we should have got on discount). Way to to go people. With a bit more effort I think we can easily get it into double figures.

Rogo, I'm not so sure that this has opened their eyes. The management is as stubborn as a mule.

[british exil]

ORIGINAL: grogmaster

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

It's true there are others who have said things they should not and if they persist they'll also get warnings. The attitudes here have turned very bitter and destructive and it's not good for anyone. The reason Rogo was warned is because he is heavily involved in the discussions that are creating this poisonous atmosphere and all polite attempts to move things to a more friendly productive discussion have failed. 2 others have also been warned privately ( one who spoke for us and one against).

There is serious damage being done to the community as its turning people against each other for no good reason.

We've tried to let it run without intervening but when incorrect info is posted we have to step in and then it flares up again.

It seems this subject is not one that can be discussed without it getting very heated. We really don't want to upset anyone or stop them having their say but when there are 6 threads covering it, it's out of control with nothing productive being said in them. Just bitter rants and counter rants. Each getting more personal than the last.

We'll discuss internally how best to get the forum on track. Suggestions on this much more welcome than more advice on prices would be appreciated! While we have extensive experience on publishing games we are happy to admit we have less experience at community forum management. That is something we've had to learn as we go!

Iain, were not concerned about helping get your forum "back on track", because the forum is meant to be an outlet for customers. If you blatantly refuse us to discuss this topic with Gestapo intentions then you're obviously not concerned about the welfare of your clients/consumers.

This forum reflects the way in which you run your business. If you ran your business in a more acceptable way to your target audience, you wouldn't have this issue. So the world is watching what you do, now. What's your move? We've all become alert of your poor practices.

It seems that comments are not being read correctly. Please read what Iain wrote and compare the comments made afterwards. Iain did not forbid us to have our say in certain matters, he just asked us to be polite about it. He did also say that he had had a busy week and he would try to calm down before commenting, he also apologised for his mistake in earlier posts in this thread.

Some members seem to want to pour poison into the froums, just to start arguments about trivial matters.

We are all grown ups here in the forums. All of us want to get the best out of our moneys worth and that includes playing the games we buy and having fun.
I work in the sales business, if someone does not want the goods I have on offer, being to expensive, bad quality or for whatever reason. They are allowed to go somewhere else to purchase their goods. I am sad to lose a custoumer, but I will not force him to purchase goods that zhey do not want from me.
I for my part follow the forums here and read about new releases, there are always people saying that if the game were to be released straight away they would pay any price, close an eye to any bugs that might still be around. Matix may not be the cheapest place to buy games, but they do have quality, games are patched if any problems arise. If a game is registered, a download is always avalible later, if a copy goes missing or pc crashes.

I do feel sad when members start to quibble and fight on the forum, it takes away the fun side to the forums and games. I also feel if someone has something personal to say, PM or mail is a way to solve problems. I am not pointing my finger at anyone, when I say what I just have in the last sentence. Two bads do not make a good.


Mat

[Rosseau]

Rtwfreak, I would have gladly gifted you the game, but the price went back up [:D]

You never know what a fellow poster may be going through, so always good to show kindness and love. People can make a difference, even on a "games" forum.

[grogmaster]

ORIGINAL: british exil

ORIGINAL: grogmaster

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

It's true there are others who have said things they should not and if they persist they'll also get warnings. The attitudes here have turned very bitter and destructive and it's not good for anyone. The reason Rogo was warned is because he is heavily involved in the discussions that are creating this poisonous atmosphere and all polite attempts to move things to a more friendly productive discussion have failed. 2 others have also been warned privately ( one who spoke for us and one against).

There is serious damage being done to the community as its turning people against each other for no good reason.

We've tried to let it run without intervening but when incorrect info is posted we have to step in and then it flares up again.

It seems this subject is not one that can be discussed without it getting very heated. We really don't want to upset anyone or stop them having their say but when there are 6 threads covering it, it's out of control with nothing productive being said in them. Just bitter rants and counter rants. Each getting more personal than the last.

We'll discuss internally how best to get the forum on track. Suggestions on this much more welcome than more advice on prices would be appreciated! While we have extensive experience on publishing games we are happy to admit we have less experience at community forum management. That is something we've had to learn as we go!

Iain, were not concerned about helping get your forum "back on track", because the forum is meant to be an outlet for customers. If you blatantly refuse us to discuss this topic with Gestapo intentions then you're obviously not concerned about the welfare of your clients/consumers.

This forum reflects the way in which you run your business. If you ran your business in a more acceptable way to your target audience, you wouldn't have this issue. So the world is watching what you do, now. What's your move? We've all become alert of your poor practices.

It seems that comments are not being read correctly. Please read what Iain wrote and compare the comments made afterwards. Iain did not forbid us to have our say in certain matters, he just asked us to be polite about it. He did also say that he had had a busy week and he would try to calm down before commenting, he also apologised for his mistake in earlier posts in this thread.

Some members seem to want to pour poison into the froums, just to start arguments about trivial matters.

We are all grown ups here in the forums. All of us want to get the best out of our moneys worth and that includes playing the games we buy and having fun.
I work in the sales business, if someone does not want the goods I have on offer, being to expensive, bad quality or for whatever reason. They are allowed to go somewhere else to purchase their goods. I am sad to lose a custoumer, but I will not force him to purchase goods that zhey do not want from me.
I for my part follow the forums here and read about new releases, there are always people saying that if the game were to be released straight away they would pay any price, close an eye to any bugs that might still be around. Matix may not be the cheapest place to buy games, but they do have quality, games are patched if any problems arise. If a game is registered, a download is always avalible later, if a copy goes missing or pc crashes.

I do feel sad when members start to quibble and fight on the forum, it takes away the fun side to the forums and games. I also feel if someone has something personal to say, PM or mail is a way to solve problems. I am not pointing my finger at anyone, when I say what I just have in the last sentence. Two bads do not make a good.


Mat

Perhaps you missed the end result of his thread? He issued a warning to someone who "had their say". Therefore, he is likely to do it again. We can then make the assumption that we can have "our say" in these forums at the risk of getting warnings/banned. So in essence, we cannot have "our say".

[rhondabrwn]

ORIGINAL: rosseau

Rtwfreak, I would have gladly gifted you the game, but the price went back up [:D]

You never know what a fellow poster may be going through, so always good to show kindness and love. People can make a difference, even on a "games" forum.

Amen! A lesson we should all take to heart