HITMAN202 versus THEPRO's Sean is welcomed ... Sillyflower is allowed.

[Peltonx]

Be nice if he can holdem, but will not be easy.

I have tried holding them in my games, some times you can some times you can't. As long as he can hold the rivers coming south he be good for a long time. The north never moves unless the SHC puts allot into the area which is great as it is a long ways from Berlin. I have never had it break, south always breaks first and north with draws to shorten frontage.

He get pushed back 4 to 6 hexes even if he fights tooth an nail, if SHC pushes hard.

Lines north of Tula generaly go static after blizzard as most of manpower is south of OKA.

Your looking good hitmann dont get all depressed. Stick to the plan, but for sure take everyones advise as every game is different.

[sillyflower]

ORIGINAL: HITMAN202

Noth of Ilmen I'll have a dense three hex wide fortress





.

Looks like rows of German cemeteries to me.

You've done well for a noobie. Heck I've have had several Germans not get to T17. I wold broadly agree with your analysis. Not sure where it went wrong for the Luftwaffe tho'. The losses were incredibly high. I can only think it was because you did not bomb our airbases on T1.

[sillyflower]

And here they are

[sillyflower]

ORIGINAL: HITMAN202

Now back to the not knowing what to do.


the Germans need to critically do the very things that the Soviets did to survive the German summer '41 attack. And those things are 1) build forts, 2) marshal troops to key sectors and 3) selectively run.

So how do you accomplish these things in a sensible way ????

And here is the last remnant of a once proud German armoured unit searching for safe winter quarters under the eyes of vigilant Soviet recce forces

[HITMAN202]

I think you are right. The "Ketza Doctrine" (Axis Diary #1) as followed by me produced 900-1000 kills at a loss of 40-50 planes. I have replayed move 1 using "Ketza Doctrine/HITMAN variant" which is 1) making all ground attacks first, 2) except for airfield bombing of units that will be overrun on turn 1, and 3) "selectively" bombing airfields after all ground combat. Kaunas is a death trap for bombers on turn #1 and should be avoided. There are others.

Using Ketza/HITMAN on 2 dry runs I killed 2400-2700 Ruskies at the expense of 140-150 German airframes. Sillyflower, I also was indiscriminant with how I used my ground attacks and air supply refueling of my mech units. Your compatriot, Belphegor, set up the Soviet air doctrine in such a way that any ground attack or air supply mission that had no fighter escort was chewed up pretty bad. I ignored the losses until I saw the numbers rise. Kamil needs to talk to your buddy about Russian air doctrine. It's been no fun for me to face.

But Axis air power is a element of the game that must be used effectively (ie. often) in '41 and losses will be high in all bomber types IMO.

But my air losses to THEPROS were due to Ketza's poor instructions to an over-eager student. "Ketza/HITMAN" however is a go !!! Try it !!!

Is Ketza out there to defend himself ????

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: HITMAN202



Is Ketza out there to defend himself ????

I have been using it and its working for me.

I am currently disbanding all none converting TB=FB units in October 42. Only fighter units by Jan 43.

[HITMAN202]

Remember Pelton, so much of my dribble/drabble is tongue-in-cheek (I'm starting show your English influence on me Sillyflower), so be aware. But my understanding of Ketza's German air doctrine was to keep the Russian air force alive in order for German fighters to chew on it to quickly gain experience and morale. Thus it was my understanding that the Germans should not extensively bomb Soviet airfields on turn 1. Sillyflower thinks that's one reason I had such high air losses int the first 17 turns; he (Sean) had more fighters available to shoot my bombers down. I think he is partially correct.

So my post was all about modifying Ketza's plan in light of Sillyflower's comment; thus the selective bombing of airfields at the end of turn1. It produced almost an additional 2000 destroyed Soviet planes at a cost of 100 German. So I renamed it Ketza/HITMAN doctrine.

It's possible that I misunderstood Ketza in "Axis War Diaries #1" and widespread airfield bombing was to be done on turn 1. I would not be surprised.

[carlkay58]

If you look closely at Axis air losses in 41 you will note that the Soviet Flak is deadly. In the above Air Losses screen you see that there are almost as many losses to Flak as there are in Air to Air for the Luftwaffe. In most of my games the Flak losses are higher than the Air to Air. This may or may not be a problem (i.e. bug) but it does do some serious hurt to the Luftwaffe over time.

[sillyflower]

but air to air losses are only just better than 2:1 in Jerries' favour.

Rumour has it that German pilots are now refusing to fly recce missions after the Red airforce's newest ace strikes again

[Peltonx]

If you just fly fighter CAP it go back to 10:1 or higher very quickly.

If you were not carefull your giving SHc easy exp and morale in 41.

If you give them very little to shot at you will still have a 20-1 ratio when not fling recon in summer 44.

Recon drops it, hay Stailn will blow his horn over German house flies killed to try and get morale up.

sillyflower is all propaganda, a German spy just sent back this picture as proof

Comrades celebrate the killing of 34 German house flys

[HITMAN202]

Any attempt to defend the high losses of my Luftwaffe would seem foolish, but Sillyflower, I do have a reasonable retort to your frank criticism.

First, Belphegor had a very effectice air strategy. Any missions (gound bombing, ground support and fuel supply) unescorted by fighters were ravaged. I unwisely ignored it for awhile. He forced me to stack airfields with fighters so all misions were esorted. This did reduce my use of the airforce.

Second, you've got to use the Luftwaffe (bomber type) in some way, or it might as well not exist. Pelton makes this point constantly. I was very effective in ground support and air refueling. Obviously at some cost.

Finally, the options of how to best use the Luftwaffe in '41 is seldom discussed (apart from air refueling ... wasn't Sapper the first to mention this ??? ) This might stimulate things. My mistakes will help others. I wish this wasn't the case.

But goodness gracious Sillyflower. Snoopy in a Sopwith ??? A kindergartener could do better. Give me a break; I have to deal with enough of them every day.

[sillyflower]

ORIGINAL: HITMAN202

Any attempt to defend the high losses of my Luftwaffe would seem foolish, but Sillyflower, I do have a reasonable retort to your frank criticism.

But goodness gracious Sillyflower. Snoopy in a Sopwith ??? A kindergartener could do better. Give me a break; I have to deal with enough of them every day.

It was only criticism in it's pure form of critique.

Anyway, for those who don't like Snoopy, here's Hitman showing his pilots how to do better

[HITMAN202]

TURN 18 .... TURN 18 .... TURN 18 .... TURN 18 .... TURN 18

The next phase of the game kicks in. First, a wide screen shot of the situation...





First Sillyflower, that is such a ridiculous post. Upside down hanging onto a biplane ??? It's both historically and personally impossible. I'm terrified of heights

[HITMAN202]

And the southern half





I was surprised by THEPROS wholesale migration from the front lines of all but the minimum needed units. I marked the big areas of builups. The biggest, by far, is southeast of Rostov. I guess this gives them an option of a big push thru the Crimea.

You can see my fall back lines (for the first time.)

[HITMAN202]

And the stats

[HITMAN202]

A couple of little things, first ....





At first glance it seems to be "All Quiet On The Eastern Front", (Remarque's novel of WWI , 25 years earlier and 2000 miles west of this conflict, which interestingly, was required reading in Hx of West Civ in my undergraduate education, is a must read by any war buff), but is not the case. Per an early post by Flaviusx, both sides are constantly converting hexes between the opposing lines; re-establishing a buffer zone of safety. It's a little tactic that can make a big difference for the defender. You can see the hexes that are under German control after my turn.

[HITMAN202]

I've started some indepth planning. Specifically..

1) AGN will be secure. The Finns will hold the Volkov-anchored line, There is a 3 hex wide span immediately north of Lake Ilmen that German units can only protect, but it can be weakly held because 1) any attack thru such a narrow front can be easily pinched off and 2) this area offers safe havens for up to 12 divisions which can be easily put to use if needed.

2) This leaves 80 hexes twix Lake Ilmen and the Black Sea. My plans are an ultra-conservative approach, which I know will get a severe tongue lashing from MT [:-][:-][:-]

A) The northern-most 20 hexes will have level 2 or stronger forts with a double row of forts in the first 6-7 hexes. This line cannot be assaulted until late Dec/early Jan and should hold thru late blizzard. I will probably not hold the mountains

B) The southern-most 20 hexes anchored on the Black Sea will similarly have level 2 or stronger forts. Since this line is 20 or so hexes from the present front line, it will certainly secure this sector.

C) The central 40 hexes will be covered by a continous line of units retereating 2 hexes or so a turn.

D) With roughly 105 German infantry divisions, 30 Pz/Mot divisions, and 8-10 regiments working with 40 weak Allied units (those not needed for garrision duty), all backed up by a reserve of 10 mountain reg/div's to defend these 80 hexes, any blizzard offense will be contained.

[sillyflower]

ORIGINAL: HITMAN202


TURN 18 .... TURN 18 .... TURN 18 .... TURN 18 .... TURN 18


First Sillyflower, that is such a ridiculous post. Upside down hanging onto a biplane ??? It's both historically and personally impossible. I'm terrified of heights

Your confession just explains why you are only about 3 feet (1M for metric lovers)above the water

[sillyflower]

ORIGINAL: HITMAN202



"All Quiet On The Eastern Front", (Remarque's novel of WWI , 25 years earlier and 2000 miles west of this conflict, which interestingly, was required reading in Hx of West Civ in my undergraduate education, is a must read by any war buff),

And turned into a very powerful film ages ago but I can't remember the date. Have watched it many times.

[carlkay58]

I believe the movie came out in the 20s but it may have been the 30s. Many of the extras in the film were WWI vets.