Future of Distant Worlds

[Veloxi]

ORIGINAL: Tyrador

Ever heard of Stardrive?

It's no Distant Worlds my friend.

[Tyrador]

ORIGINAL: Mad Igor

ORIGINAL: Tyrador

Ever heard of Stardrive?

you probably never played one of those games,cuz if you had,you would never compare them.
next time do your homework b4 talking.

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
we'd really like to do a new engine to show what we can do.

Regards,

- Erik

you haz my wallet.(if only i had one.lolololo)

I'm playing it right now! Before you write, I suggest you to use brain more often.

ORIGINAL: Veloxi

ORIGINAL: Tyrador

Ever heard of Stardrive?

It's no Distant Worlds my friend.

Well done captain obvious![;)]

[VorteeX]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Thank you for the compliments. [8D]

We're about to release Distant Worlds: Shadows, the next expansion. The current plan is to have a modder-focused expansion after that and then start work on Distant Worlds 2. This is subject to change though. If Shadows and the modder-focused expansion do very well we may look at extending DW 1 a bit further, but we'd really like to do a new engine to show what we can do.

Regards,

- Erik

Whatever you do is good idea with new engine. For DW1 still better, visual, ship design left to do. But please please don't sacrifice game complexity to make new engine. DW sink this way into many other failure games [&o]

[republicofpepsi]

ORIGINAL: VorteeX

Whatever you do is good idea with new engine. For DW1 still better, visual, ship design left to do. But please please don't sacrifice game complexity to make new engine. DW sink this way into many other failure games [&o]

I agree, it is Distant Worlds wargame like complexity that makes it stand out from the crowd.

[Cauldyth]

ORIGINAL: Simulation01
I haven't played CK2 but, from what I've seen on Youtube it places too much emphasis on diplomacy between noblemen within your own empire. I'm not too fond of the idea of having to bribe the Duke of York to defend York in my name.

Nah, I would never advocate CK2-levels of internal and external diplomacy, that's an entire game unto itself. CK2 is almost entirely focused on that aspect, and de-emphasizes everything else. It would be out of place in DW.

I'd love to see EU3/Victoria2 type international diplomacy though, especially something like war goals and the crisis system in the new Victoria 2 expansion. Imagine a Crisis event forming because the Ackdarians have a disputed system in Teekan space. The tension percentage grows over time as it remains unresolved, and the other major races can align themselves with one side or the other, or remain neutral (at a cost in prestige or an equivalent). As the powers align on either side of the issue, it will either be resolved peacefully as one side sees they're being outnumbered and gives in to demands, or erupt into full scale war between the two factions if the tension reaches 100% without resolution.

[ASHBERY76]

Indeed Cau the system would be perfect.The game already has a underused reputation mechanic in place and with war goals and a casus belli system included would improve the simulation a great deal.I wonder in Elliot has ever played those Paradox games.

[Cauldyth]

Another thing I love about the Paradox games is the concept of limited war, which is what Ashbury is referring to when he mentions war goals and casus belli.

Casus Belli: A "case for war" that is essentially a widely recognized grievance you have which would justify you going to war. If you have a casus belli, then no one will fault you for being the instigator of a war - after all, you have a good case for it. Declaring a war without a good case for it earns you a reputation as an aggressive jerk, and other empires will not like you for it (after all, if you're continually going to war for no good reason, who's to say they aren't next on your hit list?).

War Goals: When war does break out, the war has an explicit goal to it which is not simply the complete annihilation, subjugation, or annexation of your opponent. In the example I mentioned in my earlier post, if war breaks out because of a disputed colony, the war goal will be the transfer of ownership of that colony. The casus belli used to start the war determines what the war goal will be. Over the course of the war, you can occupy enemy planets, but that doesn't mean you get to keep them when the war is over. The stated war goals did not include you annexing large parts of your neighbour, so you need to withdraw your troops once the war is over.

It's the one thing I really wish 4X games would borrow from Paradox. I'm tired of all wars being wars of annihilation. I want border disputes, and more limited engagements.

[republicofpepsi]

I love the idea of complex diplomacy but I think the core resource mechanic needs the most work. It is also the component that makes DW unique. We need more feedback from the private industry and UI cues to help us see what has gone wrong or what we need...which also means we need more limited resources.

I'd like to see private industry expanded even further. It would be neat to see private industry exert political pressure on us. "Protect our shipping better or we'll go on strike!" (Shipyards produce at 50%). In a dream world...it would be neat to see Private industry compete for defense contracts. As new technology comes out competing companies submit designs, etc.

[Plant]

In a universe where you can blow up planets on a whim, discover Ancient Guardians, explore an epic past, and the return of aliens from an another galaxy, a casus belli system which is essentially only relevent to medieval European states on Earth seems a bit out of place.

This is a game of Galactic Empires. The politics of imperialism and colonialism of modern era realpolitik is the most appropriate. Though it could do with some expansion, such as greater checks on the ability of "good" governments' ability to wage war, but the current reputation mechanic and overall diplomacy does it's job well. Does diplomacy need an overhaul? I caution against asking for more features such as complicated diplomacy, when a better AI in certain areas or a clearer economic system would improve gameplay immensely.

[ASHBERY76]

Casus belli is a Latin expression meaning the justification for acts of war

Sorry but this does not go obsolete for any age,time or galaxy.

[Numdydar]

But a Casus Belli only would apply to human races. Aliens being 'alien' would not have a clue and would not care. [:)] Just the fact we can interact with then at all strains the boundries of reality already.

The entire universe should be kill on sight, especially if they would be more advanced. So asking for more diplomancy options given the context of the game, seems a little over the top imho anyway.

If humans travelled to anothe planet and found a primitave cluture of cockroaches (or some other revolting looking lifeform) and the planet was loaded with rare resources. Does anyone here think we would hesitate to ignore them and take what we wanted? As we did that with our own race, what chance would an alen one have that has nothing at all in common with our DNA.

Of course if they were cure panda type creatures (even if extremely deadly and cruel), then we would move heaven and earth to save them lol.

[Simulation01]

I don't like the Casus Beli system whereby during the war if you took planets that were not part of the grievance you have to give them back automatically. War goals are fine but, I wouldn't want to be constrained by them.

[Cauldyth]

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

But a Casus Belli only would apply to human races. Aliens being 'alien' would not have a clue and would not care. [:)] Just the fact we can interact with then at all strains the boundries of reality already.

The entire universe should be kill on sight, especially if they would be more advanced. So asking for more diplomancy options given the context of the game, seems a little over the top imho anyway.

Well, I personally have no interest in a 4X game that's kill on sight (though I realize that opinion is not universal among strategy gamers). Games like DW already throw believability out the window in favour of making a cool, fun game. If something makes the game cooler and more fun, I say add it. And I think complex diplomacy is both of those things!

Besides, if DW wanted to be realistic, then one of the races would get a 500 million year head start over the others. [;)]

As for casus belli being obsolete in the modern age, that's simply not true. The US had a casus belli to invade Afghanistan in 2002. Iraq tried to fake a casus belli for its 1990 invasion of Kuwait (they said that Kuwait was historically part of Iraq and had only been split off by the British in 1913 - in Paradox terms, Iraq claimed to have a core on Kuwait!). Casus belli was never some formalized system where you had to wave your "Certified by the Casus Belli Authority" certificate in the air before declaring war. It's simply a convenient concept for describing how you would be viewed by the international community if you went to war. Are you viewed as standing up for your rights, or are you seen as an aggressor? The US invasion of Afghanistan was generally viewed as justified, whereas the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait was not. That's the real world manifestation of casus belli.

[Shark7]

Hmmm, I often find it humorous how people will play a science fiction game, yet try to argue how the laws of reality must be followed to the letter.

Very simply, its imagination, its make believe...it is not real. Just accept the game for what it is, a fun game from the Imagination of Code Force.

As far as Casus Belli in game, isn't it really just a system to help determine the diplomacy aspect of the game? I honestly could care less about what it means in real life, in fact you don't even have to call it casus belli in game, call it likability scale, or the 'reason we are furious at you' scale. Again, the reality of it has little bearing on the game, its simply a system to make the code work better.

[Antiscamp]

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

If humans travelled to anothe planet and found a primitave cluture of cockroaches (or some other revolting looking lifeform) and the planet was loaded with rare resources. Does anyone here think we would hesitate to ignore them and take what we wanted? As we did that with our own race, what chance would an alen one have that has nothing at all in common with our DNA.

Of course if they were cure panda type creatures (even if extremely deadly and cruel), then we would move heaven and earth to save them lol.

LOL! That's pretty much true. I call it the Disney effect.

As for a Casus Belli and Wargoals system, I think it would have its place in this game. We're comparing with the Paradox games here. In EUIII there are several hordes in Asia that can't be at peace just because they are, well, hordes, developed out of Genghis Khan's conquests in the 1200's. These hordes keep attacking everyone and everything and they truly pose a significant threat in the beginning phases of the game.

I think something similar could apply to different races in this game too. Maybe even for most races; and make it a technological or political decision to be able to communicate with other races better and for all sorts of treaties and decisions between the factions to form and be upheld. A truly political system would require a lot of techs to be added too anyway.

Each race could have a different and unique "exopolitical" stance to begin with, which can be changed during the course of the game by technology and adapting different political ideas.

[Deomrve]

I know this might be heresy, but I think Distant Worlds 1 has run its course and needs to be replaced/updated. I probably would never buy the modding expansion, but I would buy Distant Worlds 2 that off loaded the graphics to the GPU, made it multi-threaded, gave me more control of military supply thru the use of contracts, priority flags and/or military freighters. I can even accept making it more modder friendly for those of you who like to mod.

Distant Worlds, in my opinion, has reach its end of life. I still play it on occasion because its the only decent 4x space game out there, but when you can pretty much have the game won within a couple of hours and all you do for the next 8-10 hours is mop up the game becomes very tedious. I would actually like to Code Force and Matrix forgo the mod expansion and start working on DW2 which includes the ideas they were going to put into the mod expansion.

Just my $0.02.

[Plant]

Well Antiscamp, Shadows have new Pirate factions, so if you was looking for a horde style race, presumably that is reasonably similar. To be honest the horde mechanic is EU3 was realy strange, since in reality the timurids and golden horde behaved nothing like how they were depicted in EU3. The casus belli game mechanic is so out of place in a space game. In fact, halfway through EU3 if you are a European power you pretty much gain the freedom to declare war on anybody you wish and take any provinces you conquer, with a reputation hit, just like Distant Worlds!

As for a mod expansion, I wouldn't express any interest in it as I'm not a modder, I'll rather that AI systems and an economic system that made more sense were put into palce.

[CyclopsSlayer]

A Casus Belli does imply that there is an overriding political/religious structure common to all members.

On Earth, say renaissance France wants to attack Spain, while they have differing rulers, they are all inter-married and are both under the watch of the Papacy. So they have a need to explain and justify their wars since they are essentially attacking themselves.

When it comes to attacking some Bug-Eyed-Monsters there is little need to justify your war with them, or to say "We'll only go this far and no further", as if they would believe that... Nuke them 'til they glow, then shoot them in the dark.

[ASHBERY76]

ORIGINAL: CyclopsSlayer

A Casus Belli does imply that there is an overriding political/religious structure common to all members.

On Earth, say renaissance France wants to attack Spain, while they have differing rulers, they are all inter-married and are both under the watch of the Papacy. So they have a need to explain and justify their wars since they are essentially attacking themselves.

When it comes to attacking some Bug-Eyed-Monsters there is little need to justify your war with them, or to say "We'll only go this far and no further", as if they would believe that... Nuke them 'til they glow, then shoot them in the dark.

Space 4X game framework is more in line with space opera ala Babylon5,Startrek than Starship troopers.A balance of power in is effect.

Casus Belli in EU is just a gameplay mechanic that would suit DW.It could be called anything.The game needs a mechanic to make war an important event rather than primitive civ style politics.

Reputation is in but goes down very quickly.The war weariness mechanic (unless fixed in shadows) is solved with a get peace and then declare war again trick.

[CyclopsSlayer]

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

ORIGINAL: CyclopsSlayer

A Casus Belli does imply that there is an overriding political/religious structure common to all members.

On Earth, say renaissance France wants to attack Spain, while they have differing rulers, they are all inter-married and are both under the watch of the Papacy. So they have a need to explain and justify their wars since they are essentially attacking themselves.

When it comes to attacking some Bug-Eyed-Monsters there is little need to justify your war with them, or to say "We'll only go this far and no further", as if they would believe that... Nuke them 'til they glow, then shoot them in the dark.

Space 4X game framework is more in line with space opera ala Babylon5,Startrek than Starship troopers.A balance of power in is effect.

Casus Belli in EU is just a gameplay mechanic that would suit DW.It could be called anything.The game needs a mechanic to make war an important event rather than primitive civ style politics.

Reputation is in but goes down very quickly.The war weariness mechanic (unless fixed in shadows) is solved with a get peace and then declare war again trick.

True. The weariness mechanic needs a lot of work if it is to really affect anything.

As well Wars, do indeed need to become a much more major thing, currently they are little more than skirmishes that you can enter into and exit quickly, without a penalty that killing a couple pirates wouldn't fix. Wars, Blockades, that last mere seconds are pointless and annoying.