Micheal T (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov)

[Peltonx]

Looks like this game has taken same track as WitP, but faster.

Flushing out late war bugs is only possible by H v H testing really. AI vs AI helps but is never a true stress test like players can do.

I helped with late beta testing( stress testing) of WoW and allot of issues were found. Then once game went gold the human factor really kicked in and it was a good 6 months before all the bugs/exploits were worked out.

Then balancing of rases/ classes in PvP took another full 12 months.

WoW had a huge budget and crew, most popular game ever and the time line was no different then WitP and WitE's.

I have yet to see or be part of any game thats any good/complete thats "done" in less then 18 months after release.

I am simply amazed that 2by3 has two of the all time best strategy games out there with such a small budget and crew.

Mybee in Middle Earth games are released 100% finished, but here on earth it takes at least 18 months.

[mmarquo]

I am amazed that some of you have the time and energy to set up these AI vs AI and other sorts of tests, especially since WITE2 is supposed to be on the horizon. All I see happening now are a few dedicated vocal gamers flushing out bugs. the developers kindly reacting with patches/work arounds, only to find new bugs and more disequilibration. There is no way, no how I am going invest any more of my time in another year long campaign under these conditions. MT and Kamil aborted this game due to bugs, you aborted your game with MT....a patch is released to fix the Army HQ megafuel harvest which only MT found, but oops, the fix is not in the patch, so we will have to patch up again??? And oh btw, new Lost Battles are being published and to be marketed but the underlying engine is still in need of desperate repair to the point that players are abandoning current games in progress???

I did get my money's worth and am eagerly awaitng the second generation: WITW and WITE2.

[:)]

[Michael T]

I hear you Mark but the fact is it is the best PC game on the subject. So I persist with it until something better comes along, ala WITE2.0.

I only get one night a week for my boardgaming fix, currently EFS. The rest of my gaming time is WITE, and has been so since its release. It's a frustrating process some times bit I still get more enjoyment from this game than any other PC game I have played.

41 was fine. I don't know why they introduced the morale rule when 41 was ok. If it were up to me I would simply leave 41 as it were and only initiate the *new* morale rule from 42 on. I am curious as to what they will come up with this time.

BTW, with repect, to those who can't see a problem with the *new* morale rule in 41, you simply don't know enough about the game and how it can snowball very quickly v human players who know how to exploit such things.

[Seminole]

MT, do you play any scenarios (H2H or vs AI) besides '41 GC?

[mmarquo]

I think one of the issues with the other Campaigns is that they have not been adjusted to account for the updated HQ command capacity rules; so you could find yourself spending APs upfront just to sort the mess out. But your are correct, maybe it would be better to start in '42.

[Michael T]

I only play 41 CG HtH. But I would play the 42 CG if it were fixed. The new Lost battles game has a Stalingrad to Berlin CG, so I am very interested in that one as well.

[carlkay58]

I think that all of the scenarios - original, DtD, and the new Lost Battles have all been reworked for the new rules. Version 1.07.07 should include the re-worked scenarios. Note that I could be wrong but I am pretty sure that it was reported as such to the play testers of Lost Battles.

[janh]

ORIGINAL: Michael T
I would play the 42 CG if it were fixed.

In what sense do you mean "fixed"? The static setup? That could be easily edited. What else is it?

Playing the 1942 GC would be a major challenge for Axis players. Especially with the offensive bias the game naturally has. If one look through the OOBs of both sides, or even only the German side, it is pretty shocking. Hardly any AAR shows a German Army in such a trashed state, let alone any vs-AI games. It could make for some interesting, but probably desperate AARs...

The next thing I want to try in earnest is a 1943 GC start, but the first two tries the Russian attacked heavily all along the front, with predictable results. I might need to add extra AP to the start setup first.

[Michael T]

In what sense do you mean "fixed"? The static setup? That could be easily edited

Yes that's the primary reason. Modified scenario's are no good to me as I only play server games. So that limits me to 'official' scenario's only.

But a sorted 42 CG would be great.

[mmarquo]

Maybe the H2H game should be played with Axis morale a1 105 - 110%

[Michael T]

Not sure if Kamil is going to resume this AAR or not. But we are up to T5 in the restart and I tried my new opening (which sounds very similar to what Saper is doing). Any way I sent most of PzGp 2 south and trapped as much as I could north of Proskurov and drove as far east as possible. Then on T2 attacked out of Rumania with Germans sent south on T1 by rail. By T3 I was at Odessa, trapping many more troops than with the usual Lvov opening.

The opening puts a lot of pressure on the Soviets on T1 and T2. As they have to make some tough decisions.

The opening takes advantage of the triggers for the Southern Front (i.e. it remains fixed) while you get in to position with a reinforced AGS.

I don't have any screenies, prehaps Kamil does.

[timmyab]

I've long been of the opinion that the Romanian 5th and 6th cavalry brigades should be moved away from the border at setup.An operational Southern rail line makes the delayed Lvov openings much more problematic for the Axis player.

[KamilS]

T1 north & centre (German)


First turn of restarted game vs Michael.

[KamilS]

T1 south (German)


New fancy opening in the south.

I massively underestimated it.

[KamilS]

T1 north & centre (Soviet)

Textbook cowardice in north and centre.

[KamilS]

T1 south (Soviet)


According to my estimation of movement points available to German units I should have been save .. but I forgotten about possibility to rail troops through Romania

[Shupov]

This opening is painfully similar to Saper's!

[KamilS]

T2 north & centre (German)

Nothing terrible hasn't happened here, but due to tragedy in the south north and centre will have to be weakened what might prove disastrous.

[KamilS]

T2 south (German)


My plan to extract semi-encircled units end up in disaster. Many quality formations were committed and now there is nothing in the south that I can fight with.

That is the price I paid for forgetting about possibility of railing troops through Romania.

[Lictuel]

Ouch that looks painful. So MT railed a whole panzer corps down there on turn 1? Not sure how much mp they would have if he railed them on turn 2.