Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

[JocMeister]

Go get him! His CAs are precious. I think the IJN starts out with 18 of them and thats all they get! [:)]

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Go get him! His CAs are precious. I think the IJN starts out with 18 of them and thats all they get! [:)]

Canoerebel and I have a pact to someday have T-shirts made up proclaiming our loathing for IJN CAs. In many ways due to fuel usage and rearming mechanics they are of far more use than the old IJN BBs.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Encircled

Not the same, but I pounced on a lone IJN DD with pretty much the whole Dutch Navy and managed to lose the Tromp and I didn't fire one shot.

You should have enough!

Famous last words. Right up there with "Hey! Watch this!" [:)]

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Start of May 16th Turn Planning

Hmm, how can I screw this up? [:)]

The IJN is a CA and DD. The two RN TFs have two BBs each, plus much trim.

Figure damaged Atago for 25 kts, or 6 hexes per phase. From where you attacked them, they appear to be making a bee-line for the strait, aiming for where that other IJN TF is sitting on the word Sabang. Your southern force needs to go mostly east to keep the block, nav search up, react 4 or so. I would not send it too close to the strait unless you know the composition of that other IJN TF [the undamaged CA??]

The northern force needs to make up two hexes so it should move quickly toward the strait in hopes to intercept before they both get there. The FAA should go mostly east, a little south to block a move straight east by the enemy and stay far enough away from danger in the strait.

PS - if you follow my advice and miss him, you can always say it wasn't you that screwed it up!
If you are successful, you can take credit for being wise![;)]

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Go get him! His CAs are precious. I think the IJN starts out with 18 of them and thats all they get! [:)]

Canoerebel and I have a pact to someday have T-shirts made up proclaiming our loathing for IJN CAs. In many ways due to fuel usage and rearming mechanics they are of far more use than the old IJN BBs.

Agreed! At least in my current game both Allied and Jap slow BBs have been quite useless. Their slow speed makes it almost impossible to use outside absolute air supremacy. Fast BBs and CAs have proven very useful though! [:)]

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Figure damaged Atago for 25 kts, or 6 hexes per phase. From where you attacked them, they appear to be making a bee-line for the strait, aiming for where that other IJN TF is sitting on the word Sabang. Your southern force needs to go mostly east to keep the block, nav search up, react 4 or so. I would not send it too close to the strait unless you know the composition of that other IJN TF [the undamaged CA??]

The northern force needs to make up two hexes so it should move quickly toward the strait in hopes to intercept before they both get there. The FAA should go mostly east, a little south to block a move straight east by the enemy and stay far enough away from danger in the strait.

PS - if you follow my advice and miss him, you can always say it wasn't you that screwed it up!
If you are successful, you can take credit for being wise![;)]

I sent the turn back before I saw this, so you're off the hook. [:)]

I'm not sure which CA this is, damaged or not. The TF near Sabang reads a only a 2-ship, from local air search from Sabang, but who knows? The Air TF ex-Zuhio might be there or even be that one for that matter. He's been pasting Sabang for weeks, so it might be a light landing force figuring the base is ready to topple. (It isn't.) A few times Mike has underestimated what it would take to knock over a defended base.

I agree it's running for the Strait. The subs are running 2- and 3-hex zones across the mouth, so if the CA is slowed they might get a kick in if the heavies miss it. I should know by bedtime.

[Bullwinkle58]

[/quote]

Agreed! At least in my current game both Allied and Jap slow BBs have been quite useless. Their slow speed makes it almost impossible to use outside absolute air supremacy. Fast BBs and CAs have proven very useful though! [:)]
[/quote]

I get the North Carolina pretty soon. Can't wait. Yamato comes out this week or next I think.

[Bullwinkle58]

May 16, 1942

Three and Three

1) Allied subs launch three attacks at a DD, xAP, and a DD. No hits. IJN subs launch three attacks. Down go AM Kalgoorlie, AG Alaskan, xAKL Lee Sang.

Sigh.

2) Sweep battles over Prome. Zeroes lose 3:1 today--maybe getting tired? The AF at Prome goes to 2, important for maintaining a good, low-fatigue CAP.

3) Supply bombing at Chungking really hurting. AA causing a lot of damage, but this is bad.

4) New Oil target--Sian. Two Hudsons do 1 point of Oil damage. It all counts. Nine Wellingtons hit Kunming Manpower for 34 hits and 15,140 Fires. Later, a couple of Blenheins hit HI there and do a point.

5) CAP at Djambi increased with addition of Oscar unit. B-17s and B-25C come in with light escort and do another point of Oil damage, downing an Oscar as well. The sweep comes after the bombers again. Lightnings destroy four Oscars for one of their own and a Cobra. Late in the day three LB-30s hit undefended Medan and do 4 Oil hits.

6) Allies bombard at Bataan and inflict 204 casualties and two squads destroyed.

7) A CV TF is sighted NW of Sabang. A northern landing is due I think. Maybe 4th ID isn't coming overland? I think it's the remnants of the Air Tf that had Zuiho, but there has been plenty of time for the KB, or a part, to get here. Sure would like a KB sighting soon. If it's scraps the RN carriers plus the surface TFs can deal. If not, they can't.

Oh, the CA TF? Gone Casper. It was that kind of day.

[JocMeister]

Perhaps he did a full run speed to get out of dodge?

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Perhaps he did a full run speed to get out of dodge?

Perhaps I just suck. [:)]

[Bullwinkle58]

May 17, 1942

Calculated Risks





1) This was a difficult turn to plan. I went back three times and adjusted courses and air orders, ending up about where I started. During planning, two IJN TFs showed. One inside the northern Strait, which read as a 2-ships TF. I presumed it was ASW, as it had tangled with one of my subs in the past few days. Not to say TFs can't swap, but that was my guess. The other was one hex NW of Sabang and read as one unknown ship. I have a small surviving Hudson unit at Sabang on Search, but I knew this was worng. The TF has read as carriers before. I was fine with that. The question was, were they there to support a landing at Sabang or to lead a turn around the tip and a run down the west side to land at Padang in order to march on PBang?

To oppose, I had an RN carrier TF with Hermes and two conventionals, Swordfish and Albacores, plus decent fighters left but not enough. And two BB-led surface groups, one Force Z, the other based on two old R-type, both with mostly DDs in escort. Both also very low on fuel. I had one replenishment group to the west, but only with about 7000 fuel. Cocos has more, plus an AKE. The carriers had more fuel, but not enough to share. So, what to do?

I sent the carriers due south on the x=axis you can see in the screenshot. CAP at 50%. TBs on heavy Search to the SE. The BB TFs I also ordered south, in mutually-suporting react postures, and one to take the fuel from the replenishment group tomorrow. The other was going to have to rely on Cocos and crossed-fingers. I saw three possibilities for the Japanese carriers: 1) Support for Sabang, they stay put, I'm good. 2) Support for a run on Padang, they come around the corner, hug the coast for LBA help and to avoid subs in deep water, and I'm good. 3) They know what I have and where, and they hunt.

Mike took Door #3.

The surface TFs did not play a part. And, two more red TFs appeared on the replay. The northern one is, I think, the little lost lamb of a CA/DD, but I don't know that. The one SE of Great Nocobar I don't know what that is. I suppose it could be a landing force to take an AF to oppose Pt. Blair, but Japan has a lot of undone work still before they ought to be worrying about moves like that. So, if that's what it is, I'm OK with it.

But the IJN carriers, Junyo and Hiyo at least, attacked the RN. The CAP did very well, but there just weren't enough to burn through. Most of the Kates had bombs, but not all. The armored flight decks did well as some bombs got a "belt armor struck" message, not a damage report. I think Hermes might be a goner, but the others I have hopes for. Some of the air bingoed to Sabang, some to alternate decks, so at least one deck is working, but might be over-loaded.

Tomorow I have to figure out how to drive the BBs. Chase the contact to the north and then to Colombo for fulll fuel? Continue south? Hang around and oppose a landing at Sabang, knowing there are carriers? There's no reason to land on Sabang; a march from Medan is low-cost, although slower. Sabang is a thorn to Japan, and the preferred port for Medan oil, and he might be in a hurry now, but it's not mandatory for Japan to have soon. I need time to get more into PBang, especially the US Army division in the wormhole. My USN ships are also a week out of CT. Mostly DDs, but they will give me raiding I don't have with Force Z. POW needs her January upgrade still as well.

Anyway, the battle:

Morning Air attack on TF, near Great Nicobar at 37,67

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 98 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 42 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 30
B5N1 Kate x 11
B5N2 Kate x 10
D3A1 Val x 27

Allied aircraft
Sea Hurricane Ib x 11
Martlet II x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed
B5N1 Kate: 1 damaged
B5N1 Kate: 1 destroyed by flak
B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed by flak
D3A1 Val: 5 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Sea Hurricane Ib: 1 destroyed
Martlet II: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
CV Illustrious, Bomb hits 4
CV Indomitable, Bomb hits 5
CVL Hermes, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires
CLAA Van Heemskerck
CA Devonshire, Bomb hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
11 x B5N1 Kate bombing from 10000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
3 x D3A1 Val bombing from 3000 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
13 x D3A1 Val bombing from 3000 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
5 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
11 x D3A1 Val bombing from 3000 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
4 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CVL Hermes
-------------------------

Morning Air attack on TF, near Great Nicobar at 40,67

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 23 NM, estimated altitude 5,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 17

Allied aircraft
Sea Hurricane Ib x 4
Swordfish I x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Sea Hurricane Ib: 1 destroyed
Swordfish I: 8 destroyed
------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on TF, near Great Nicobar at 40,67

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 37 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 21 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 10

Allied aircraft
Albacore I x 12

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Albacore I: 3 destroyed

2) Big air battles over Djambi as well. Japan has embellished the CAP there with many Oscars, suggesting that now oil ports are open up north he doesn't want to lose the supply now, any more than already. The Allies have a few P-38s in the fight, and they hold the line for the most part, losing one, but letting some of the bombers get through for 2 Oil hits.

Morning Air attack on Djambi , at 48,88

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 18 NM, estimated altitude 4,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 5
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 9

Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 2
Hudson I x 5
P-38E Lightning x 3
P-39D Airacobra x 3
P-40E Warhawk x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-25C Mitchell: 2 damaged
Hudson I: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged

Oil hits 2

-------------------------

Morning Air attack on Djambi , at 48,88

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 6 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 2 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 2
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 3

Allied aircraft
A-24 Banshee x 11
P-38E Lightning x 3
P-39D Airacobra x 2

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
A-24 Banshee: 1 destroyed, 5 damaged
-------------------------------

Morning Air attack on Djambi , at 48,88

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 17 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 1
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 1

Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 2
P-38E Lightning x 3
P-39D Airacobra x 3

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
P-38E Lightning: 1 destroyed

3) Allied strat bombing continues with a failed night attack on Sian Oil, an attack on Singers' shipyard (1 B-26 lost, no damage), 3 Liberators on Brunei Oil for 2 hits, and an HI attack on Kunming for 5 hits with 2706 Fires remaining from previous days' strikes.

4) Prome CAP battles end with the Allies ahead a bit. There is no bombing here, so I wonder. More and more LCUs are approacing Prome, where about 1200 AV are altready digging in.

5) An I-boat SE of Ceylon takes an AG in a supply TF for Port Blair. USS Trigger, patrolling on the deep/shallow line SE of the southern tip of Korea, sinks xAKL Nichiro Maru, under escort. Probably a Resource hauler.

6) In China, a lot of action. A tank LCU (12th Reg. from probe bombing) appears on the yelow road in the high mountains to the east of the Big Stack. It's posisble some supply from Chungking might be getting past it, but not much, which means Chungking's supply deterioration is worse than I thought, and mostly due to bombing. A strong response force commences a march out of Chungking to the west to fight the one LCU camped there, an ID I beleive. Arty comes with.

A probe bombardment is done at Neikiang, to the west of Chungking and a Resource feeder. It is not strongly held, and only has Forts 2+. The stack readying an attack is very tank heavy.

Ground combat at Neikiang (75,44)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 11807 troops, 108 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 480

Defending force 39013 troops, 224 guns, 553 vehicles, Assault Value = 1366

Allied ground losses:
39 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
51st Chinese Corps
2nd Chinese Cavalry Corps
3rd Chinese Cavalry Corps
7th Construction Regiment
3rd Group Army
39th Group Army

Defending units:
24th Division
2nd Ind.Mixed Regiment
11th Tank Regiment
3rd Ind.Mixed Brigade
3rd Tank Regiment
10th Tank Regiment
20th Recon Regiment
9th Ind.Mixed Brigade
28th Engineer Regiment
26th Engineer Regiment
1st Army
5th Army

The Big Stack went to 4 miles on its march toward history.

7) Finally, in the PI, the Allies kept up the harrassment bombardments at Bataan. A 3-plane Cat unit due to withdraw in two weeks is snuck into Cebu, which has a small LI installation, and ordered to fly in whatever it can to Bataan as long as it lasts. Bataan is becoming a pride target as June approaches.

[JocMeister]

You aren´t using the precious P38s for escort I hope? [X(]

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

You aren´t using the precious P38s for escort I hope? [X(]

Sweep and LRCAP. They did their jobs. No fighter is more important than destroying Oil. Objectives before assets, always.

Just opened the next turn and got some nice news. Hermes has 41 system, but only 31 float and no fires. Might make it. HMS Illustrious has 6/2/2/0. HMS Indomitable has 2/0/0/0. Both are low on planes though. Mike commented in email that his 250kg bombs seemed to bounce to a great degree.

HMS Devonshire (CA) has 19/5/2/0. Needs to retire, may not be an affordable gift.

[JocMeister]

Puh! I thought you had gone bonkers! [:D]

Good news on the Hermes. I have seen some people describing Hermes as fragile but it has take quite a pounding in my game is still floating around. [:)]

[koniu]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58



Just opened the next turn and got some nice news. Hermes has 41 system, but only 31 float and no fires. Might make it. HMS Illustrious has 6/2/2/0. HMS Indomitable has 2/0/0/0. Both are low on planes though. Mike commented in email that his 250kg bombs seemed to bounce to a great degree.

British CVs are like battleships without guns.. Best way to sunk them is torpedo hit. 250kg bombs bounce most of the time. They have 75mm deck armor. Essex class CVs have only 25mm.
They are very hard to sunk, if only they have bigger plane capacity

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Puh! I thought you had gone bonkers! [:D]

Good news on the Hermes. I have seen some people describing Hermes as fragile but it has take quite a pounding in my game is still floating around. [:)]

She's quite stout for her size, but can't carry enough planes to be that useful.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: koniu

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58



Just opened the next turn and got some nice news. Hermes has 41 system, but only 31 float and no fires. Might make it. HMS Illustrious has 6/2/2/0. HMS Indomitable has 2/0/0/0. Both are low on planes though. Mike commented in email that his 250kg bombs seemed to bounce to a great degree.

British CVs are like battleships without guns.. Best way to sunk them is torpedo hit. 250kg bombs bounce most of the time. They have 75mm deck armor. Essex class CVs have only 25mm.
They are very hard to sunk, if only they have bigger plane capacity

Yep. My heart sank when I saw the strike package coming, and rose again when I saw Kates dropping bombs.

[Bullwinkle58]

May 18th Planning Map

This is the Bay of B. at the start of the turn, and what I ordered.





Hermes can only make 16 kts, so it and a DD are put in Escort, sent in a U-shaped course to end at Colombo. The remaining Air TF pulls the TBs off Sabang, and heads NW to perhaps intercept what reads as a force of 3 BBs heading generally for Ceylon. (Merchant raid?)

The Non-Force Z surface group rolls dice and will charge across the IJN Air TF ZOC to take on the possible landing force at Great Nicobar. I'm hoping a combo of low sorties/torpedo inventory, targeting confusion, and BB hulls to make most of these ships survivable.

Force Z will refuel and move slightly west to wait and watch Sabang.

The retreating CA/DD TF in the Strait is up to the subs. Low odds, but that's what I have.

[CaptBeefheart]

That's indicative of some pretty big cojones to be sending your R-Class force east.

Good luck.

Cheers,
CC

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Commander Cody

That's indicative of some pretty big cojones to be sending your R-Class force east.

Good luck.

Cheers,
CC

I've seen the movie now, and it went medium-bad. Still would do it again with what I had, which is the beauty of the game and real naval warfare. Land war is mostly about terrain, flanking, supply flows, and command radius. At contact it often becomes small-unit leadership and individual atomic level unit training and morale.

Naval warfare is very different. Outside the vessel's internal organization and the CO--officer--crew interfaces, it's often about three variables--time, range, speed. If a fourth is needed I'd insert sensors.

The old BBs had a range of options on a time, range, speed spectrum. All of them were bad given IJN carriers and the lack of Allied local air capability. There's nowhere to hide at sea except in weather, and this game has advanced weather OFF. If they had run NW they might have reduced the dl and attack chance, but they can't outrun the Air, and if they ran they couldn't do anything positive toward the Allied objective set. In this case slow Japanese plans primarily, inflict damage requiring withdrawl, and, very last, consume Japanese ammo while the nearest re-arm is Singers (Rangoon can't take BBs or CVs.)

The battle was lopsided and the bet about a landing at Great Nicobar did not pay out. But I'd still do it again. Not every loss is a mistake.