(Almost ) Historical MOD

[Yaab]

Fired your scenario again, this time with the latest beta patch. It is great to see the bomb loadouts on the aircraft screen! Very interesting choices, especially for the Japanese light bombers.

Are you still developing this mod?

[inqistor]

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Fired your scenario again, this time with the latest beta patch. It is great to see the bomb loadouts on the aircraft screen! Very interesting choices, especially for the Japanese light bombers.

Thanks. Light Bombers have short range, and I could not change total weight of bomb carried, so it was the only way to keep them in-game, instead to be first candidates for upgrade to 2E bombers.

Are you still developing this mod?

I should probably implement Allied bombloads, but when I think, that there is gazillion models for every Allied plane, I lose motivation [:D]

One thing I am planning, is to implement early Allied torpedo (it should have only 2/3 power of current Mark 13, and be even more faulty). With current beta it would be quite easy - simple weapon upgrade. But I have to also reimplement Japanese bombloads. As they were made quickly, and I see, that with larger bombloads it tends to get cramped, when bombs are not in order.

Have you checked if anti-submarine bombs work? It is kinda hard to test, since hit-ratio is so low, that you hardly can get any in early war.

[Yaab]

Unfortunately, I didn't have time to check the effectiveness of the anti-submarine bombs.

There is stock, BabesLite, DaBigBabes and AHMOD to play and only this much time. Can't imagine what it will be like when the RHS gets completed...

[oldman45]

I have been using airborne depth charges in my mode and after 10 months of play, the squadrons that are using them have had no recorded hits.

[inqistor]

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Unfortunately, I didn't have time to check the effectiveness of the anti-submarine bombs.

There is stock, BabesLite, DaBigBabes and AHMOD to play and only this much time. Can't imagine what it will be like when the RHS gets completed...

There are like 6 Scenarios in RHS, so better reserve yourself at least two months [:D]

ORIGINAL: oldman45

I have been using airborne depth charges in my mode and after 10 months of play, the squadrons that are using them have had no recorded hits.

I was not THAT radical (besides I suspected that ship weapons do not work on planes. I checked this with rockets). My ASW bombs, are simple GP, but I added range for them. I was wondering if this check for submarine depth, and will be more effective than normal bombs.

[Yaab]

I reckon you put a lot of calculations to reduce cargo capacities in your mod, but is there any chance you could further round down or round up the capacities for xAKs/xAPs for aesthetic and logistics reasons? It is more pleasant to the eye and mind to have 1440 or 2390 xAKs than 1441 or 2388 ones. I sometimes mix up the capacity column with actual cargo column especially if a ship is loaded at less than 100% capacity i.e 1441 capacity ship with 1323 supplies loaded. Most of the roundings would mean subtracting/adding 1-3 points of capacity.

[LargeSlowTarget]

+1 That is what I have done in my Babes variant and I can confirm that it makes things much easier for tired minds and eyes!

[inqistor]

ORIGINAL: Yaab

I reckon you put a lot of calculations to reduce cargo capacities in your mod

Not really [:D]
I had only to test initial amount. Making changes was like writing ONE magic line, so took around 3 minutes [:D][:D][:D]

but is there any chance you could further round down or round up the capacities for xAKs/xAPs for aesthetic and logistics reasons? It is more pleasant to the eye and mind to have 1440 or 2390 xAKs than 1441 or 2388 ones. I sometimes mix up the capacity column with actual cargo column especially if a ship is loaded at less than 100% capacity i.e 1441 capacity ship with 1323 supplies loaded. Most of the roundings would mean subtracting/adding 1-3 points of capacity.

Gee, you have strange problems. You know, that I have cut EVRY SINGLE POINT, to lower it to minimum? Think of the consequences! 3 extra points, and with 100 ship trips it would amount to 300 extra tonnes! (not that in-game it was not actually rounded)

The magic line is:
=IF(AND(T2>150,MOD(T2,10)>0),T2+10-MOD(T2,10),T2)
where first 150 is minimal capacity not rounded up (you do not want any extra SST capacity, do you?). The line rounds only up, because downward can cause some initial units to not fit initial invasion fleets.

And here is also changed wpc file, just exchange it for old one (if I guessed correctly that "c" is CLASS)

[Yaab]

Is this file working? I downloaded it and replaced the old one, but the cargo capacity values seem unrounded upwards.

[inqistor]

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Is this file working? I downloaded it and replaced the old one, but the cargo capacity values seem unrounded upwards.

That is why I added "Magic Line", kinda in-emergency-do-it-yourself.

It seems, that during extraction something went wrong. This one should work, I have checked it two times:

[Yaab]

Beautiful! The file works, capacities are rounded. Many thanks!

[Yaab]

I was curious how your bombloads would affect light bombers on city attacks.
I am posting two combat reports.

City targeted: Wuchow
Detection: 1/1
Weather: Clear
Fort level at Wuchow: 1
Opposition: none (no AA fire)
Industry targeted: Light Industry

Bombers: 24 Sonias and 27 Idas from Canton
Average exp: 65
Average ground bombing skill: 65


Test 1.
Japanese aircraft
Ki-36 Ida x 27
Ki-51 Sonia x 24

Light Industry hits 19

Aircraft Attacking:
24 x Ki-51 Sonia bombing from 6000 feet
City Attack: 4 x 50 kg GP Bomb
27 x Ki-36 Ida bombing from 6000 feet
City Attack: 10 x 15 kg GP Bomb

LI destroyed:
After-attack tooltip info: 44 (17)
Real losses on Allied side: 41 (19)

TEST 2:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Japanese aircraft
Ki-36 Ida x 27
Ki-51 Sonia x 24

Light Industry hits 28

Aircraft Attacking:
24 x Ki-51 Sonia bombing from 6000 feet
City Attack: 4 x 50 kg GP Bomb
27 x Ki-36 Ida bombing from 6000 feet
City Attack: 10 x 15 kg GP Bomb

LI destroyed:
Post-attack tooltip info: 43 (18)
Real losses on Allied side: 26 (34)

* Number in parenthesis is for destroyed LI.

Obvioulsy, more tests need to be done, but maybe light bombers on city attack should have another bombload with fewer bombs which are heavier? It could be called strategic bombload or something. Perhaps 100 kg GP bomb for Sonias and 2 x 60 kg for Idas?

Right now, the small bombs used mainly against soft targets, are just too effective against industry. I feel I could halt land inavsion of China altogether and just bomb the Chinese into the stone age.

As per manual, page 252, quote: "Level bombers flying an offensive Mission expend supplies equal to their Maximum Load divided by 1000 per Mission", my supply usage for this mission was 25 supply points (Sonias and Idas' bombloads are 500, divided by 1000 = 0.5 supply point per plane).Let's assume that after 30 tests the average number of LI destroyed is 18.By expending 25 supply points I inflict losses on the Chinese inudustry worth of 18,000 supply points, which can only be repiaired provided the Chinese can gather 10,000 supplies at Wuchow.

Thus, the air war in China beats the land war in China by a wide margin. LCUs will only be needed to grab those bases with level 2 airfields needed for flying light bombers with full bombloads.

Bomb sizes should matter when bombing industry, but with the above tests I am beginning to doubt it.
Some info on the matter here:
tm.asp?m=3332938&mpage=1�

[Yaab]

Another test, with tottaly different results

City targeted: Changsha
Fort level:4
Terrain: Urban Light (x2 defensive bonus)
Opposition: 13 AA guns that can shoot at 6000 feet
Detection: 3/3
Weather in hex: Clear sky

Japanese aircraft
Ki-30 Ann x 12
Ki-51 Sonia x 12

No Japanese losses

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x Ki-30 Ann bombing from 6000 feet
City Attack: 8 x 50 kg GP Bomb
12 x Ki-51 Sonia bombing from 6000 feet
City Attack: 4 x 50 kg GP Bomb

No hits recorded, no industry damaged, those 13 AA guns were shooting constantly.

Guess fort level, terrain type, number of aircraft and those pesky AA guns make all the difference. Higher detection didn't help the Japs.

Guess you can still wage unlimited airwar in China,with some cities suffering more than others.

[Yaab]

More food for thought...

This time the attack altitude is 1000 feet, bombloads are reduced.

City targeted: Wuchow
Detection: 1/1
Weather: Clear
Fort level at Wuchow: 1
Opposition: none (no AA fire)
Industry targeted: Light Industry

Bombers: 24 Sonias and 27 Idas from Canton
Average exp: 65
Average ground bombing skill: 65

Japanese aircraft
Ki-36 Ida x 27
Ki-51 Sonia x 24

Light Industry hits 21

Aircraft Attacking:
24 x Ki-51 Sonia bombing from 1000 feet
City Attack: 2 x 50 kg GP Bomb
27 x Ki-36 Ida bombing from 1000 feet
City Attack: 5 x 15 kg GP Bomb

Post-attack tooltip info: 34(27)
Real losses on Allied side: 30 (30)

(Number in parenthesis denotes damaged LI)

Killing light industry with light bombers carrying light bombs.

[inqistor]

Heh, I was also pretty sure, that bomb size is most important in city attacks [:D]

Have you tried other types of industry as target? I am wondering what will happen, if you add armor for Device Industry slots (not, that armor seems to help tanks against air attacks).


Anyway, I think there is bit for city attack bombload, so changing it would be easy.

[Yaab]

I specifically targeted LI because it represents the bottleneck in supply production in China. China produces surplus of resources for its LI/HI. LI factories are located closer to frontlines while HI factories sit safely in Chunking, Chengtu and Kunming, so they out of reach of the Japanese light bombers. Thus, I bombed LI.

The small bombs (15,30, 50 and 60 kg ones) had a disastrous effect on Light Industry in my tests. Thank God fighters cannot fly City Attack missions - more Nates and the Oscars with 15kg bombs would spell doom for the Chinese.

It seems that industry factories are shielded from bombs by terrain and forts as witnessed in the Changsha test. Unfortunately, you can probably wipe out the whole industry in Wuchow and Liuchow before the Chinese can construct another level of forts there. Plus, bomb airfields there with Nates and fort construction will cease. No wonder Allied players ask for a strategic bombing HR in China when they play PBEMs.

[inqistor]

ORIGINAL: Yaab

The small bombs (15,30, 50 and 60 kg ones) had a disastrous effect on Light Industry in my tests. Thank God fighters cannot fly City Attack missions - more Nates and the Oscars with 15kg bombs would spell doom for the Chinese.

This is more general problem with Industry attacks. BETTY even in original Scenarios carries 6 bombs on ground attacks, and although Light Bombers can use smaller airfields, neither range, or extra supply used would make much difference.

It seems that industry factories are shielded from bombs by terrain and forts as witnessed in the Changsha test. Unfortunately, you can probably wipe out the whole industry in Wuchow and Liuchow before the Chinese can construct another level of forts there. Plus, bomb airfields there with Nates and fort construction will cease.

Initial fort numbers can be increased. The war in China is already raging for years.
I am more concerned about Japan, when if player leaves base without AA defense - half of industry will be wiped in one attack.

[Yaab]

Another test, this time with 15kg bombs only:

Target: Wuchow, clear terrain, forts 1, no opposition
Target: light industry
Weather in hex: Clear sky

Japanese aircraft
Ki-36 Ida x 27

Light Industry hits 12

Aircraft Attacking:
27 x Ki-36 Ida bombing from 6000 feet
City Attack: 10 x 15 kg GP Bomb

Post-attack tooltip info: 56 (4)
Real losses on Allied side: 53 (7)

Damaged LI in parenthesis.

Now, can you imagine B-29 loaded with 15kg bombs?

[Yaab]

^

[inqistor]

ONEAMINUTE!

This last example actually shows, that there was LESS damage, than reported hits: 12 hits, and only 7 damage (just check your earlier examples - the lowest amount was EQUAL to reported hits, and most of the time it was actually MORE). So that means, that 15kg bomb is actually weaker. The bad news is that 50kg is not [&:]

B-29 uses 20 (or more) bombs, and with current algorithm - even adding 100 more, would increase damage well below 5%. That could only matter with very inexperienced crews, or highly maneuverable targets