Pirates are far to strong

[BigWolfChris]

Can say I've started to notice the fewer the pirates the harder they actually are as well

Afterall, I think they start with Hyperdrives (sidenote: worth them starting with warp bubbles at first for prewarp games?), meaning they have sectors and sectors of space to expand into straight away and the only way to prevent them is for them to have competition. Something empires won't be able to provide for a while, meaning you need to give them pirate factions to fight

For example, a recent game set with very few pirates...
Appears that either a) only one faction spawned b) the one faction wiped out the others before the empires reached the warp-age (I didn't have respawning pirates on either)
Needless to say this faction had so much room to expand and had most of the AI empires paying them
This lead to them being so rich and strong that, when I waged an all out war against them it was a very frustrating experience (I never paid them, they seemed to leave me alone due to how many military ships I had built)

I took their only colony, at the time, early and captured 2 shipyards, a medium that had 60-ish ships in the build queue and a large that easily had a 100 or more

I then used my spy network harass them non-stop, either by sabotaging construction or destroying bases with with my fleets now on the rampage of simply killing/capturing anything pirate they saw
Despite the wins, despite outnumbering them, despite my vast(ish) wealth and resources, they seemed to simply be rebuilding their loses faster than I could rebuild mine, eventually tipping the balance into their favour, they are now stronger than they were before I started the campaign and my economy has hit breaking point trying to keep up with their numbers
Really wished I'd managed to find their other constructor ships (only managed to kill one)

Ofc, trying all this with very hard difficulty and 999k research probably didn't help my cause either lol

[Maruun]

Just a thought but less pirates means few but strong pirates. Because they have less competition get more money faster ect.

Pirates are fighting each other, more pirates more fighting between them and you have a shitload of "weak" pirates.

[Constantine XI]

In both games I have played so far, using default pirate settings, I haven't had a huge problem with pirates. I have refused to pay them, and they have attacked. In both games, I built some extra troops at the start and fended off their invasions (although one raid did steal some resources). They have also blown up my SSP a couple times before it could finish. However, in both games they mostly left me alone after the initial attacks. In my current game, I managed to throw up an extra small Defense Base and then my SSP, both with just missiles for defense. In my first game, the numerous pirates in surrounding systems never bothered me after those initial early raids, and the game ended after 20 years. Not sure if they will stay quiet in my current game.

I think there is a high degree of variance here. I have yet to encounter a mega pirate faction with hundreds of ships, or even a pirate faction that maintained aggression to the point where I couldn't get my own empire up and running. Maybe I have just gotten lucky.

[Jim D Burns]

Another thing to keep in mind about the pirates, sign the protection agreements as soon as you can. If you play as a pirate faction you'll note a protection agreement for a few hundred is only enough to field 2 or 3 additional ships, then the added upkeep runs your income dry.

So sign agreements with them ASAP when playing as an empire as its very cheap in the early part of the pirate factions life and you don't really help them grow much in power. The cost of a single raid or the loss of a space port is far too expensive not to spend a few thousand total on protection agreements with all known pirates in your area. I wouldn't spend 500 or more on a single faction, but less than that isn't going to help them grow in size much, and it certainly won't help them to buy 30k hidden bases.

Where pirates make their real money is in raids and in selling tech and other stuff via negotiations. So don't buy anything expensive from them early on, save those purchases for later when you are strong enough to slam them before they can put all that money you give them to use. Early on use spies to steal what you can but be careful to spread out their efforts so you don't piss of a single faction too much and cause them to attack.

Jim

[BigWolfChris]

Jim, the example I gave, had me not paying them once in that game, yet they grew to immense strengths due to being the only pirate faction and the AI (I presume) paying them lots of money
Remember, pirates are taking out the AI empires also, so normally you're only paying a fraction of what they're earning (unless you've really pissed them off, in which case they'll want more from you I'm guessing)

ORIGINAL: Constantine XI
I think there is a high degree of variance here. I have yet to encounter a mega pirate faction with hundreds of ships, or even a pirate faction that maintained aggression to the point where I couldn't get my own empire up and running. Maybe I have just gotten lucky.

Run very few pirates in a pre-warp game on hard or very hard difficulty, more often than not, a super-pirate faction will indeed merge

It kinda of funny in a weird way, that it would be logical that less pirates = easier time, but the game actually has it the other way round, part of me thinks it brilliant, another part of me thinks it might need altering lol

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

ORIGINAL: MartialDoctor

Well, you can tone down how many pirates there are; thus making them easier.

Actually I find the more pirates there are the easier they are to deal with. They fight each other for every scrap out there and thus do not build up to huge sized factions. The fewer of them there are the stronger they will be when you try and venture out of your home system as they'll have made many strongholds and fortresses by then.

So if you want things to be easier crank up their numbers to max and make sure they respawn. They'll fight each other to a standstill and allow you to eventually outgrow them.

Jim

This is true. The only time one will get the upper hand is if they find one of the old derelicts and put it in service. And even then, they'll keep on fighting each other and constantly weakening themselves.

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: BigWolf

Jim, the example I gave, had me not paying them once in that game, yet they grew to immense strengths due to being the only pirate faction and the AI (I presume) paying them lots of money
Remember, pirates are taking out the AI empires also, so normally you're only paying a fraction of what they're earning (unless you've really pissed them off, in which case they'll want more from you I'm guessing)

ORIGINAL: Constantine XI
I think there is a high degree of variance here. I have yet to encounter a mega pirate faction with hundreds of ships, or even a pirate faction that maintained aggression to the point where I couldn't get my own empire up and running. Maybe I have just gotten lucky.

Run very few pirates in a pre-warp game on hard or very hard difficulty, more often than not, a super-pirate faction will indeed merge

It kinda of funny in a weird way, that it would be logical that less pirates = easier time, but the game actually has it the other way round, part of me thinks it brilliant, another part of me thinks it might need altering lol

I've played with pirates set to very many, nearby and on extreme difficulty...they are a major PITA in that set up, but you can do it. Also keep in mind that every time you offer a contract to smuggle, defend, or attack you are financing their war machine. So you have to weigh every action you take.

One key thing guys is to make sure you have adequate troops on your colonies. I keep a minimum of 5 on each planet, which really reduces the pirates chances of successfully raiding your planets and stealing money or resources.

[Bingeling]

I guess less pirates making the game more difficult is the same as some old wisdom in this game. Like that increasing aggression makes the game easier.

By the same logic, adding more empires, makes the game easier too. But it makes the likelihood of a "quiet start" lower.

[BigWolfChris]

ORIGINAL: Shark7

Also keep in mind that every time you offer a contract to smuggle, defend, or attack you are financing their war machine. So you have to weigh every action you take.

I don't even do these
The point I'm getting at, is for those saying pay them off or don't pay them off, it doesn't actually matter on the higher difficulties and few pirates, the AI empires alone will finance them
Ofc, I dare say that by paying them off (and running smuggling/merc operations also) you only make it worse for yourself long term

If people find pirates are to strong for their tastes, either switch them off, or have more of them in the game

[BigWolfChris]

ORIGINAL: Bingeling
By the same logic, adding more empires, makes the game easier too. But it makes the likelihood of a "quiet start" lower.

Yes and no, it will stop distant AIs from becoming really strong, but also runs the chance of you not being able to expand that far (depending on the game settings ofc)

[Kadrush]

I invite to try "very many pirates" on Extreme and see them making >1000ships in 10 years. Is like playing a tower defense game, you just hold until they overwhelm your colonies and kill the population on raids.

[Jim D Burns]

ORIGINAL: BigWolf

Jim, the example I gave, had me not paying them once in that game, yet they grew to immense strengths due to being the only pirate faction and the AI (I presume) paying them lots of money
Remember, pirates are taking out the AI empires also, so normally you're only paying a fraction of what they're earning (unless you've really pissed them off, in which case they'll want more from you I'm guessing)

Right, but even one successful raid on your planet per year will garner them 10k-20k or more or tons of resources. I'd rather fund 2-3 military ships for them and not risk the raids at all. If you sign a protection agreement early in game, relations will stay high, they won't raid you, and they won't ask for higher amounts later unless you piss them off. Which also means you can build mining bases in your system even pre-warp and they wont come in and destroy it all before you have the capacity to warp ships around in-system and defend stuff.

If you don't sign then it's the luck of the draw whether they decide to prey on your system or not. And if they do prey on you it'll cost a hell of a lot more then the 200-300 to buy em off to stop the raids by then.

Jim

[BigWolfChris]

I get what you're saying Jim, but in my example they were purely feeding off of the AI empires, they didn't touch me until I took the first shot
By this time they were already strong enough to match me, but seemed to also ramp up things when I attacked

Not saying it would of been impossible, but as I'm 're-learning' the game after not playing in a longtime, so my designs were still not as good as they could of been (still getting used to actually having to have plenty of armor on my fits for example lol)

[MartialDoctor]

Just to add to this. From what I've seen, if you have other empires that are strong, they will also keep the pirates in check. I've seen strong empires eliminate, or severely damage, pirate factions that are bothering them. So, by increasing the amount of other empires in the galaxy, that can also help to keep the pirates from being too powerful.

[adecoy95]

ORIGINAL: Mad Igor

don't pay them !or they will get 2 stronk fast.
what u need is research Star fighters,then stuff your bases with them = problem solved.

isint this more expensive than just paying them off? [:'(]

[Chris21wen]

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

Right, but even one successful raid on your planet per year will garner them 10k-20k or more or tons of resources. I'd rather fund 2-3 military ships for them and not risk the raids at all. If you sign a protection agreement early in game, relations will stay high, they won't raid you, and they won't ask for higher amounts later unless you piss them off. Which also means you can build mining bases in your system even pre-warp and they wont come in and destroy it all before you have the capacity to warp ships around in-system and defend stuff.

If you don't sign then it's the luck of the draw whether they decide to prey on your system or not. And if they do prey on you it'll cost a hell of a lot more then the 200-300 to buy em off to stop the raids by then.

Jim

Having got my backside whipped in my first game I started another. To counteract the pirates I have tried the following:

• Not going on the offensive to soon. Concentrated on defending my colonies with a sector fleet in the area and 3/4 ships based in forward system.
• Don't expand to far too quickly. Send a resupply ship with fighters to the area if you have them, or the lesser option, build a gas mining station in or as near to each colonised system. Either will keep your ships supplied and the resupply ship will also defend/attack pirates.
• ALWAYS send grond troops to a new planet, not sure how many but I started with 5. Pirates do not appear to be very strong in this area.
• Build a small def base with fighters, and/or a space port if needed as soon as you can.
• Not paying them anything so they have no money to build with. When I'm in a position to attack their main base I will extract as much info from them and attack the base before they can utilise the cash. At least that's what I hope to do.
• Only attack pirate bases when I had either CR or DD with med range Torps/missiles. Depending upon range you will also need resupply ships with fighters.