Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

... Not every loss is a mistake.

You put MacArthur, Tom Phillips and Percival on those BBs??! Tell us how we can do that! [:D]

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

... Not every loss is a mistake.

You put MacArthur, Tom Phillips and Percival on those BBs??! Tell us how we can do that! [:D]

Not sure I get your point?

[Bullwinkle58]

May 18, 1942

Decisions

1) Don't have a screenshot from the movie. But the IJN TFs in the Bay coalesced into one hex NW of Great Nicobar, and WEST of the RN BB TF by a hex. The possible landing on the island did not occur. It's possible that TF is an ASW flanker for the carriers, but I truly don't really know what it is. Also, the "3 BB" TF seen yesterday to the NW either came to meet the carriers, or moved out of sight, possibly continuing on a course for Ceylon. There is a large black hole in the middle of the Bay I don't have LBA search which can reach.

The good news is the RN carriers were left alone. They didn't attack anything either. Also, so far as I know, Force Z is undetected and represents a cocked fist for the Allies to use, or not. More risk if I move it to engage, but no upside if I leave it to the west for another day. Pondeirng that.

The RN BB TF took heavy blows. The IJN carriers had torpedoes left, although they have to be fairly low by now. On fuel as well. Some IJN planes were lost to use, mostly from damage. That plays into any decision on Force Z.

There were two heavy strikes on the surface TF:

Morning Air attack on TF, near Great Nicobar at 39,63

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 96 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 41 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 26
B5N1 Kate x 11
B5N2 Kate x 10
D3A1 Val x 27

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N1 Kate: 2 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 1 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed by flak
D3A1 Val: 5 damaged
D3A1 Val: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied Ships
BB Revenge, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
BB Royal Sovereign, Bomb hits 7, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
CL Emerald
CA Cornwall, Bomb hits 1
CL Glasgow
CL Hobart, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
11 x B5N1 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
3 x D3A1 Val bombing from 3000 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
13 x D3A1 Val bombing from 3000 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
5 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
11 x D3A1 Val bombing from 3000 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
2 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
3 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 10000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb

------------------------

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Great Nicobar at 39,63

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 116 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 50 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 26
B5N1 Kate x 11
B5N2 Kate x 8
D3A1 Val x 26

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N1 Kate: 1 damaged
D3A1 Val: 2 damaged

Allied Ships
CL Emerald
CL Glasgow
CA Cornwall, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 2, heavy damage
CL Danae, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Aircraft Attacking:
11 x B5N1 Kate bombing from 10000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
2 x D3A1 Val bombing from 3000 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
13 x D3A1 Val bombing from 3000 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
3 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
11 x D3A1 Val bombing from 3000 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
5 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 10000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
-------------------------

RS is likely a goner. No sunk ships sounds were heard in the movie though. RN damage control at this phase of the war is the best in the game, and Colombo is not that far. I will have to jigger TF compositions around and save what is possible. And decide what to do with Z.

This battle did pull the IJN farther into the Bay. To support Sabang these TFs may need full-bore visits to Singers, past the subs both ways. More subs are sailing from Colombo next turn and more are in the wormhole inbound.

2) Had a strange one which might be FOW, but I've never seen it I can recall.

Sub attack near Donggala at 69,96

Japanese Ships
xAK Nitti Maru, Torpedo hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Mochizuki

Allied Ships
SS S-36

Japanese ground losses:
31 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

During the attack a text message about severe fires in fuel cargo flashed by. I've never seen an xAK carrying an LCU also be hauling fuel. Pretty good chance this one sinks. Also good to see atttacks past, and not on, escorts.

3) Heavy sweeps at Pt. Blair. Later AF attack damages all 8 Albacores there.

4) Chungking pounded, but so is Chengtu (Japan loses 3 bombers, 4 damaged.) A division of effort which might let Chungking off the mat a bit. A probe bombardment at Neikiang shows Japan how light are the defenses. Two LCUs have closed two retreat paths, but China still has two left. There's no point in running; the forces there are better off in city terrain than on the road to Chungking. It's likely they will be destroyed in detail and be reborn at Chungking. Chungking has tens of thousands of Resources in stock; the AF bombing is destroying supply faster than it can be made, however.

5) Allies bombard at Bataan and do 108 casualties. No sign Japan has noticed the resupply effort from Cebu.

6) Allied strat attacks include high-low at Djambi with 2Es at 100 feet and DBs glide bombing, with esocrts. Light losses to both sides but only 1 Oil hit. A lone Liberator hits HI at Saigon in a "I'm heeeere!" attack. No damage, but the target rotation is useful. Kunming HI is hit for 11 points. 330 HI points a month not going into the pool unless repaired.

[Bullwinkle58]

This is the Tracker damage screen for major damage in TFs at the start of planning for May 19th. The RN BBs hang in there, much less damaged than I feared. With luck and some very fancy footwork they might make Colombo. I have not yet looked at withdrawl dates which might still bite me. Colombo can't really handle this volume of major float and remain effective for minor damage, so some of these will need to go off-map after some patching. Still, wow. Great DC.

I also see Mike has started multiple threads/posts about IJN 800 kg bombs versus 250s. He is very frustrated over this issue. Email too. Still, an old BB that can take four fish and still make way? Amazing.

[JocMeister]

Good news on the BBs! [:)]

Make sure you have turned off "allow ship upgrades" before putting them into repair mode. Otherwise they might start any pending upgrades and flip to refitting. If so they get stuck there for a few 100 turns costing a hefty amount of PPs.

Been there...luckily only with a xAP that cost me some 800 PPs before I could disband it. [:(]

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Good news on the BBs! [:)]

Make sure you have turned off "allow ship upgrades" before putting them into repair mode. Otherwise they might start any pending upgrades and flip to refitting. If so they get stuck there for a few 100 turns costing a hefty amount of PPs.

Been there...luckily only with a xAP that cost me some 800 PPs before I could disband it. [:(]

Yeah, I need to check that. The withdraws are mostly later 1943 though.

I sent the turn back with some of the fanciest footwork I've ever done. If the Japanese carriers go NW one set of things happen. If they go SE another set. If they go west I have no idea.

I'm trying to use DG as a stop for the heavily-hurt, with widely-divergent waypoints to get there. Some repair will be at CT, some will be at UK or EC. Colombo is already overworked with CAs and light carrier work. The TF set next to the last known position of the IJN is going to open like a flower. I'm hoping the targeting routines throw up.

And I in-for-a-penny-in-for-a-pound-ed Force Z and sent it hunting, assuming the NW option. Might lose POW. Might catch a good IJN BB or a CV with its pants down. Such is war. I've been saving it, and this enemy TF deep in my yard is as good a target as I've had. So there it goes.

[BBfanboy]

I strongly suspect at least two of those torp hits on RS were FOW. Still, the crew is doing well to still be afloat. Maybe its the coal in her bunkers not leaking out like oil would!

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

I strongly suspect at least two of those torp hits on RS were FOW. Still, the crew is doing well to still be afloat. Maybe its the coal in her bunkers not leaking out like oil would!

I know exactly nothing about RN BB designs. Are you kidding about the coal, or was she still pre-oil?

I have the movie file and am a bit worried. Mike's email with it was pretty jolly.

So here I am, stalling.[;)]

[catwhoorg]

RS had oil fired boilers.

A joke, but a good one, as they were only the second class of Royal Navy BB not to have coal bunkers.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: catwhoorg

RS had oil fired boilers.

A joke, but a good one, as they were only the second class of Royal Navy BB not to have coal bunkers.

Ah, thanks.

[Bullwinkle58]

May 19, 1942

BOING! BOING!

1) Well, the cunning plan in the Bay of B. worked half-way. The flower opened up, and the targeting routines did indeed throw up. Allied ships running in all directions, and Force Z came on the field with full AA and no damge to drain some of the metal away from the wounded. Z did not have enough movement to reach the IJN carriers at React=6. There were a lot of hits, but over a dozen were 250kg bombs bouncing off BB armor. A couple of torpedoes where I didn't want them, one CL lost, but the RN carriers continued home safe, and everybody scattered, complicating the Japanese problem of range, time, and speed. One screen-shot from the middle of the day shows the Japanese search and targeting problem:






Morning Air attack on TF, near Great Nicobar at 35,68

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 92 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 39 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 18
B5N1 Kate x 6
B5N2 Kate x 6
D3A1 Val x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N1 Kate: 1 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 1 damaged
D3A1 Val: 2 damaged

Allied Ships
BB Prince of Wales, Bomb hits 1
BC Repulse, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 2, on fire
-------------------------------

Morning Air attack on TF, near Great Nicobar at 41,65

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 36 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 8
D3A1 Val x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A1 Val: 2 damaged

Allied Ships
BB Royal Sovereign, Bomb hits 6, on fire, heavy damage

----------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on TF, near Great Nicobar at 35,68

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 35 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
D3A1 Val x 2

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A1 Val: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied Ships
DD Vampire
------------------------------------------

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Great Nicobar at 35,68

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 84 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 36 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 8
B5N1 Kate x 11
B5N2 Kate x 5
D3A1 Val x 10

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N1 Kate: 2 damaged
D3A1 Val: 3 damaged

Allied Ships
BB Prince of Wales, Bomb hits 5
BC Repulse, Bomb hits 5, heavy damage
CA Dorsetshire

------------------------------------------------------

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Great Nicobar at 39,66

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 66 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 24 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 9
D3A1 Val x 12

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A1 Val: 2 damaged

Allied Ships
BB Revenge, Bomb hits 7
CL Hobart, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage (Sank later)
---------------------------------------------------------

Roayl S. is probably really a goner this time, and Revenge may have Fires too great to handle at sea. But I was happily surprised yesterday, so who knows? Of main interest is how badly Repulse was gored. The sortie rate and lost/damaged IJN aircraft suggest this TF might head home now, but we shall see.

2) Japan begins landing at vacant Lautem and is met with I think the first air defense of a landing to date. Allied defenses on Timor are at Koepang. Not great, but in supply with some Forts.

Amphibious Assault at Lautem (72,115)

TF 115 troops unloading over beach at Lautem, 72,115

Japanese ground losses:
127 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 11 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
----------------------------------

Morning Air attack on TF, near Lautem at 72,115

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Allied aircraft
SBD-3 Dauntless x 10

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
xAK Zenyo Maru, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage

Japanese ground losses:
64 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 3 destroyed, 3 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
---------------------------

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Lautem at 72,115

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid spotted at 15 NM, estimated altitude 19,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Allied aircraft
SBD-3 Dauntless x 10

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
xAK Zenyo Maru, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Oite
xAK Toho Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Hayate

Japanese ground losses:
120 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 4 destroyed, 9 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 3 (1 destroyed, 2 disabled)

3) In northern Sumatra Japan lands at vacant Langsa. Only vehicles are lost in the surf, suggesting this might be tanks only. An ASW TF offshore holes HMS Trusty. I would like to keep her on station if possible, waiting for retiring carriers.

4) Prome sees sweep battles again, but no bombing. Odd. This base is still growing with the arrival of more LCUs from the north. As far as I can tell there is no land attack coming. Chungking is also heavily swept by over 60 fighters (no CAP), as is Pt. Blair, ditto. Chungking is bombed by 11 Lily, and 11 Lily are damaged.

5) Bataan is bombed and the Allies bombard. Supply leaking in from Cebu untouched.

6) 11 B-17s hit Djambi Oil against strong CAP which comes in four waves of reinforcments. 1 point of damage, but only damage to the Forts. The P-38 sweep comes late at 28,000, but shoots down 4 Zeros for no losses.

7) Neikinag is hit hard by Sallys, doing widespread disruption, then the enemy attacks. The base falls with heavy Chinese losses, but all LCUs make it out through an open hexside. Scraps might make it to Chungking, but unfortunately I can't feed them.

Ground combat at Neikiang (75,44)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 34787 troops, 224 guns, 433 vehicles, Assault Value = 1363

Defending force 14140 troops, 108 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 465

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 1

Japanese adjusted assault: 1082

Allied adjusted defense: 58

Japanese assault odds: 18 to 1 (fort level 1)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Neikiang !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: leaders(+), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
1171 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 67 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 18 disabled

Allied ground losses:
7940 casualties reported
Squads: 297 destroyed, 193 disabled
Non Combat: 168 destroyed, 72 disabled
Engineers: 41 destroyed, 5 disabled
Guns lost 88 (37 destroyed, 51 disabled)
Units retreated 6

8) The day ends with some Allied good news. Chittagong AF goes to 7, able to support coming 4Es in large numbers. And Soerbaja Forts make Level 5, a significnat achievement for this key port, AF, and shipyard. Also, it has a bit of Oil. [:)]

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: catwhoorg

RS had oil fired boilers.

A joke, but a good one, as they were only the second class of Royal Navy BB not to have coal bunkers.

Not what I read - when the previous Queen Elizabeth class were constructed to be Uber-BBs [for their time] with much larger displacement, 15" guns [as opposed to the 13.5" on other British BBs], oil fired boilers and steam turbines, the government was appalled at the cost. They felt the builders were taking advantage of the war crisis to gouge the Exchequer! For the follow-on R class, they reverted to reciprocating steam engines and coal, and a smaller displacement. That is why the R class do 21 knots to the QE Class' 24 knots.

Not much upgrading was done to the R class between the wars, but it is possible that oil firing was achieved before 1942 though.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: catwhoorg

RS had oil fired boilers.

A joke, but a good one, as they were only the second class of Royal Navy BB not to have coal bunkers.

Not what I read - when the previous Queen Elizabeth class were constructed to be Uber-BBs [for their time] with much larger displacement, 15" guns [as opposed to the 13.5" on other British BBs], oil fired boilers and steam turbines, the government was appalled at the cost. They felt the builders were taking advantage of the war crisis to gouge the Exchequer! For the follow-on R class, they reverted to reciprocating steam engines and coal, and a smaller displacement. That is why the R class do 21 knots to the QE Class' 24 knots.

Not much upgrading was done to the R class between the wars, but it is possible that oil firing was achieved before 1942 though.

Wikipedia, FWIW, says they could use either.

It also says: "Royal Sovereign had a relatively quiet career, missing the Battle of Jutland. She took part in convoy duty in the early part of World War II. She was loaned to the USSR in 1944 and renamed Arkhangelsk, escorting Arctic convoys for the remainder of the war. Returned after the war, she was scrapped in 1949 in the UK."

[Bullwinkle58]

Major damage at start of May 20th turn. Repulse is worse than I feared, RS better. And no fires. POW is fully combat-capable. Amazing. The RN presses on.

[Lecivius]

Repulse is a lightweight. She sinks pretty easy in every game I have played.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

Repulse is a lightweight. She sinks pretty easy in every game I have played.

I don't know. These were old ships. They've taken a beating that would leave the IJN BBs aflame. They have great crews when the war starts.

I sent the turn back with one more day of trying to get after that Air TF. Could cost me more, but at this piont the strategic coin is time, not ships. I've taken a thrashing in the Bay this week and he's fine, other than a fish in a CA. But if this whole op shows I'll fight with old ships maybe it's worth it in the long run. And the RN carriers are back in Colombo, less Hermes.

[JocMeister]

I think your BBs are going to make it unless attacked again. [:)] He should be VERY low on sorties. He should certainly be out of torps by now?

[Lecivius]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

Repulse is a lightweight. She sinks pretty easy in every game I have played.

I don't know. These were old ships. They've taken a beating that would leave the IJN BBs aflame. They have great crews when the war starts.

I have had the opposite effect

Night Time Surface Combat, near Port Blair at 46,58, Range 4,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
DD Oite

Allied Ships
BB Prince of Wales
BC Repulse, Shell hits 1, and is sunk

Range closes to 5,000 yards...
Range closes to 4,000 yards...
Range closes to 3,000 yards...
Range closes to 2,000 yards...
Range closes to 1,000 yards...
DD Oite engages xBC Repulse at 1,000 yards
Allied Task Force Manages to Escape
Task forces break off...

Of course, I did loose the whole war in 6 months

[Encircled]

One shot!

Is the Oite an X-wing or something?

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

I think your BBs are going to make it unless attacked again. [:)] He should be VERY low on sorties. He should certainly be out of torps by now?

I would think so, but he's been rationing them. We're also one or two betas behind, and there was a bug in the one we haven't done yet concerning unlimited torpedo inventory. I think it's just in CVEs in certain cases, but not sure.

A lot of the flooding is Minor, and BBs not on fire usually do well fixing some of that while transiting. If he leaves most should make it. Although they're out for a year or so.