The march of progress - Lokasenna (J) vs. HexHead (A), no HH please

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Wall of text incoming.
January 23, 1942 - Current situation report:

Global: Industry & Captured Territory
--1055 PPs in the bank. Not too shabby. I plan to use these to buy out the 53rd Division ASAP.
--Wake Island, Port Moresby, Rabaul, Balikpapan, and the northern coast of Borneo are all in IJ hands.
--Vehicle factories are at only 72, and the LCU production curve is below trend needs. I will bump up production to about 110-115 over the next couple of weeks and see where that gets me.
--Lots of naval reserves at Hiroshima, including 4 BBs, 5 CAs, 5 CLs, 40 DDs, and 8 submarines. 10 TKs and 40 xAKs. Also, 16 subs plus midgets at Kwajalein. Lots of unallocated assets here.
--20 R&D factories already working for the Ki-84: wow!
--Unfortunately, not much else looks changed with aircraft R&D other than a small focus on the B6N1 and D4Y1, which are both good things, but nothing has been put towards the Tojo or Zero models yet.

You're right. That's not too abysmal for January 1942. R&D looks borked, but that's OK so early in the war.

The naval reserves in Hiroshima aren't doing you much good there. Were you going to...you know...USE them in the war? If so, pre-position them as naval reserves where they'll do you some good. Truk and Singapore make intuitive choices for forward reserve basing.

Restructure your R&D program for the Ki-84. I wouldn't go with more than 6 factories for the Ki-84a. Don't forget the independent research tree for the Ki-84b! So you'll have to have another 6 factories for that as well.

Tojo II production / research is a no-brainer. Quickly put at least 6 factories (@ 30) for the Ki-44IIa. As soon as these are repaired, transition them to the IIb and then (the next turn) to the IIc. When the IIa comes on line as a production model, you can change some of the other production factories over to the IIa and allow the IIc research to plow forward. Don't forget the Ha-35 engine pool too. If you get that over 500 (and keep it that way), you'll double your R&D on this very important airframe.

G4M R&D is superfluous. Forget about it. Change that to the Peggy (T) if you're looking for a mid-late war bomber to research. H8K R&D is superfluous. Stick with the production date.

D4Y3, A6M5b, A7M, B6N2, N1K2 and the aforementioned Ki-84 research has a priority. J2M3/5 and Tony research is +/-. Align your research on their predecessors so that you can take advantage of the damage-free 'switchover' for your factories.

I keep the Oscar production (and research) at a moderate clip for airframe replacement, limited "ablative armor" escort function and future Kamikaze airframe 'banking'. The IIa and IIb pools will number in the hundreds by the time I get Kamikazes. The Oscar research tree is a pretty straight shot to the top, so it's another excellent candidate to pull forward Oscar IV production as soon as possible. It also benefits from a >500 pool of Ha-35 engines too, which is nice.

I'm researching the Shinden too, but I'm not sure that's the right thing to do.

Don't forget engine R&D! Engine acceleration and numbers built become very important for mid-late war fighters. Get these built up to take advantage of the different system for engine R&D factory repair and airframe R&D factory repair!

China
In general, my plan for China is to move on Nanyang and Sian in an attempt to encircle the troops at Loyang/Chengchow. I then hope to push on to Lanchow and eventually enter the central valley from both north and south. This is ambitious; I will undoubtedly have to revisit and tweak this plan many times. For the south of China, I am to open up the Magic Coast Road by taking Nanning, Liuchow, and Kweilin after I take Kukong. From there, I may try to sneak some units up the dirt road from Naning towards Kunming's/Kweiyang's back door. Overall, this theater needs a lot more supply. Convoys will be organized shortly.

Sound initial strategy.

Chinese forward deployment at Nanyang, Loyang and Chengchow should be seen as an opportunity for you to envelope and liquidate these units in situ. I'd rather kill them on the central plains than have them retreat into the wooded (and more defensible) hexes in front of Sian.

Don't be afraid to liquidate his troops where they stand. These VPs can be a useful bank for you moving forward and forestall or downgrade Allied victory conditions. Yes, they respawn at Chungking after some months, but they'll suck up supply and surprisingly scarce Chinese infantry squads before they can be a real threat.

Your overarching goals in China are to: 1. Kill Chinese infantry squads at a steady rate and 2. Cut off Chungking from resupply efforts. Clearing the Chinese from open terrain, rail hexes or nice strategic goals (Sian and the Northern oil-rich cities spring to mind) are nice secondary considerations.

Burma
I'm almost clueless here.

Push out the Allied dogs as best you're able. Burmese infantry and their commonwealth overlords are the worst infantry in the game. They S U C K. Good for you! Kill 'em all!

Try to push some engineers and infantry to Ramree island and build forts / airfield. Same with Akyab. This can forestall an Allied push into this theatre. I'm assuming that you guys have no house rules pertaining to the monsoon? If not, don't wait for your opponent to take advantage of the borked supply movement in this theatre.

SWPAC: You didn't mention New Caledonia. Who has that? What are your plans for Noumea?

I am hoping that I can just lock away the PA resistance in Clark/Bataan for a while, while I deal with Malaya and Sumatra - maybe even Java. I don't need Manila until later.

Agree. Your forces are needed for exploitation elsewhere now.

Jolo is in IJA hands. Davao and Batangas on Mindanao are also Japanese. I think more AV is probably needed here to complete the conquest of Mindanao, as only a couple hundred is present.

Jolo is overrated in AE. I remember in WiTP it was a freakin' awesome base, but with limited Nettie torpedoes in this game, there are better choices for scant AV support. After capture, other than building defenses, you can better use your combat units elsewhere in the DEI.

My opinion re: Mindanao is similar to Luzon. You've got the bases you *need* for now. Keep them, build them and start to put a steady pressure on the Allied forces remaining on the island. Bang on 'em every freakin' turn with IJAAF bombers-airfield attacks to score supply hits and prevent defensive building alternating with ground attack to disrupt / damage units. After a few months of this, they'll fall over when you come a 'knockin' with your real forces.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Wall of text incoming.
January 23, 1942 - Current situation report:

Global: Industry & Captured Territory
--1055 PPs in the bank. Not too shabby. I plan to use these to buy out the 53rd Division ASAP.
--Wake Island, Port Moresby, Rabaul, Balikpapan, and the northern coast of Borneo are all in IJ hands.
--Vehicle factories are at only 72, and the LCU production curve is below trend needs. I will bump up production to about 110-115 over the next couple of weeks and see where that gets me.
--Lots of naval reserves at Hiroshima, including 4 BBs, 5 CAs, 5 CLs, 40 DDs, and 8 submarines. 10 TKs and 40 xAKs. Also, 16 subs plus midgets at Kwajalein. Lots of unallocated assets here.
--20 R&D factories already working for the Ki-84: wow!
--Unfortunately, not much else looks changed with aircraft R&D other than a small focus on the B6N1 and D4Y1, which are both good things, but nothing has been put towards the Tojo or Zero models yet.

You're right. That's not too abysmal for January 1942. R&D looks borked, but that's OK so early in the war.

The naval reserves in Hiroshima aren't doing you much good there. Were you going to...you know...USE them in the war? If so, pre-position them as naval reserves where they'll do you some good. Truk and Singapore make intuitive choices for forward reserve basing.

Yeah, I'm confused as to why they're at Hiroshima of all places. If it's like Scen 2, then they all started in Formosa or CRB, right? Waste of fuel steaming all the way back to the HI. I'll keep a couple of the larger surface ships (as well as short-legged DDs) back to escort the 53rd Div, which I'm planning to send to Oosthaven while the 33rd Div goes to Malaya first (currently in Bangkok). I will need to scrape up some other minor units to help with Sumatra, but since he has pretty much ceded the skies to me in this area I'm not worried about taking Palembang before Singers (by the "typical" southern route, anyway). Especially not if I bring some naval airpower and surface forces back to the region.

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
Restructure your R&D program for the Ki-84. I wouldn't go with more than 6 factories for the Ki-84a. Don't forget the independent research tree for the Ki-84b! So you'll have to have another 6 factories for that as well.

Tojo II production / research is a no-brainer. Quickly put at least 6 factories (@ 30) for the Ki-44IIa. As soon as these are repaired, transition them to the IIb and then (the next turn) to the IIc. When the IIa comes on line as a production model, you can change some of the other production factories over to the IIa and allow the IIc research to plow forward. Don't forget the Ha-35 engine pool too. If you get that over 500 (and keep it that way), you'll double your R&D on this very important airframe.

Yeah, I'm glad most of the Ki-84 factories are at 0 (1). I will have to look at the -84b research tree, I'd forgotten about that being difference. I can free up at least 12 of them, or I guess at least 6 of them because of the -84b.

I'll also have to take another look at the Tojo IIc - I must have missed something when comparing it to the IIb. I'm not familiar with how quickly the IIa R&D factories will repair, so I won't expand them to 30 right away as I don't want to get boned and have them not fully repaired when it arrives. I should be able to get close to 30, however... So you skip the IIb entirely by fully repairing the IIa factories, then upgrading to IIb, and the next turn upgrading those same factories to IIc? Interesting. I could do that with any production chain, couldn't it? Thinking Judy (Y1, next turn Y2, next turn Y3), Zero (up to M5c if not M8), Jill (N2a only has radar over N2 right?), and Oscar as well... Seems a bit gamey if it works that way, but only a bit as their arrival dates are farther away so by not focusing on accelerating the next model until it's a month out before upgrading the R&D factory, I'm delaying the replacement of crappy planes like Vals.

I'll keep the 2 Oscar factories online, I suppose. And I'll look at getting 2-3 factories researching its upgrades. Probably 2 (of the 8 extra Frank factories, 6 will probably go Tojo and 2 to Oscar).

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
G4M R&D is superfluous. Forget about it. Change that to the Peggy (T) if you're looking for a mid-late war bomber to research. H8K R&D is superfluous. Stick with the production date.

D4Y3, A6M5b, A7M, B6N2, N1K2 and the aforementioned Ki-84 research has a priority. J2M3/5 and Tony research is +/-. Align your research on their predecessors so that you can take advantage of the damage-free 'switchover' for your factories.

For sure. I am definitely switching the Betty factories to something else. They arrive when the devices they carry arrive, so no point in R&D. With the comments on Frank, Tojo, and Oscar - I think I will be able to move forward with the turn now.

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
I keep the Oscar production (and research) at a moderate clip for airframe replacement, limited "ablative armor" escort function and future Kamikaze airframe 'banking'. The IIa and IIb pools will number in the hundreds by the time I get Kamikazes. The Oscar research tree is a pretty straight shot to the top, so it's another excellent candidate to pull forward Oscar IV production as soon as possible. It also benefits from a >500 pool of Ha-35 engines too, which is nice.

I'm researching the Shinden too, but I'm not sure that's the right thing to do.

Don't forget engine R&D! Engine acceleration and numbers built become very important for mid-late war fighters. Get these built up to take advantage of the different system for engine R&D factory repair and airframe R&D factory repair!

I love engine R&D and the engine bonus for the super common engines (like Ha-35 and possibly the Ha-34, if I can build the pool high enough). I forgot about the bonus at first when R&Ding aircraft in my AI games, and then finding out about it made me really happy. Bonus happy.

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

China
In general, my plan for China is to move on Nanyang and Sian in an attempt to encircle the troops at Loyang/Chengchow. I then hope to push on to Lanchow and eventually enter the central valley from both north and south. This is ambitious; I will undoubtedly have to revisit and tweak this plan many times. For the south of China, I am to open up the Magic Coast Road by taking Nanning, Liuchow, and Kweilin after I take Kukong. From there, I may try to sneak some units up the dirt road from Naning towards Kunming's/Kweiyang's back door. Overall, this theater needs a lot more supply. Convoys will be organized shortly.

Sound initial strategy.

Chinese forward deployment at Nanyang, Loyang and Chengchow should be seen as an opportunity for you to envelope and liquidate these units in situ. I'd rather kill them on the central plains than have them retreat into the wooded (and more defensible) hexes in front of Sian.

Don't be afraid to liquidate his troops where they stand. These VPs can be a useful bank for you moving forward and forestall or downgrade Allied victory conditions. Yes, they respawn at Chungking after some months, but they'll suck up supply and surprisingly scarce Chinese infantry squads before they can be a real threat.

Your overarching goals in China are to: 1. Kill Chinese infantry squads at a steady rate and 2. Cut off Chungking from resupply efforts. Clearing the Chinese from open terrain, rail hexes or nice strategic goals (Sian and the Northern oil-rich cities spring to mind) are nice secondary considerations.

[/quote]

I'm a bit concerned that I don't have enough forces here, but I have yet to see what the Chinese stack outside of Hangchow looks like. A sizable portion (1800 AV) of my CEA forces are tied up there, but hopefully not for long. I'm thinking of buying out some tanks from Manchuria after I get 53rd Div bought out, and sending them to help cut off the retreat routes in China - particularly around Loyang and Chengchow. Doing so successfully will require careful movement planning, but challenges are fun.

If I don't conquer China, that's fine. This is Scenario 1 after all, and I have to buy out Manchurian units due to our HRs. But I am definitely going after his troops. The more I destroy, the more supply it eats and the longer before he can come knocking on my door from this theater (and if I'm successful enough at neutering the Chinese, never? Where never = not before 1946).

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Burma
I'm almost clueless here.

Push out the Allied dogs as best you're able. Burmese infantry and their commonwealth overlords are the worst infantry in the game. They S U C K. Good for you! Kill 'em all!

Try to push some engineers and infantry to Ramree island and build forts / airfield. Same with Akyab. This can forestall an Allied push into this theatre. I'm assuming that you guys have no house rules pertaining to the monsoon? If not, don't wait for your opponent to take advantage of the borked supply movement in this theatre.

I feel starved for engineers. I bought 4 small units out of Changchun and am sending them to Fusan (cost me 50-60 PPs). I remember in Scen 2 at the start there are a bunch of ENG units at Pescadores, Takao, and that S-base on the island (Hainan Island?) outside of Hanoi. Do these exist in Scen 1? I need to track them down if so.

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
SWPAC: You didn't mention New Caledonia. Who has that? What are your plans for Noumea?

It's his. I have no designs on Noumea at the moment. Just pushing for Luganville seems like a stretch goal. Perhaps I'm not being ambitious enough; I am playing the Evil Empire in this game after all [:D]. The Allies are pretty weak defensively and unable to move many troops around to different places for a few more months at least. If I can move quickly on Luganville, I may be able to take a small force down to Noumea. I'm not anxious to get into a situation like Lee's, not this early in the war. I have no inkling of where the USN CVs are, and there are 4 of them. If I still haven't been able to get into a fight with them by May or so (and one that ends well for me, preferably with zero IJN CV losses) then I am going to make a move for something valuable to try and force them to show up. If I can pick one or two off before summer, when Junyo and Hiyo arrive I will probably do the "use his own base as bait" trick then instead of earlier.

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Jolo is overrated in AE. I remember in WiTP it was a freakin' awesome base, but with limited Nettie torpedoes in this game, there are better choices for scant AV support. After capture, other than building defenses, you can better use your combat units elsewhere in the DEI.

My opinion re: Mindanao is similar to Luzon. You've got the bases you *need* for now. Keep them, build them and start to put a steady pressure on the Allied forces remaining on the island. Bang on 'em every freakin' turn with IJAAF bombers-airfield attacks to score supply hits and prevent defensive building alternating with ground attack to disrupt / damage units. After a few months of this, they'll fall over when you come a 'knockin' with your real forces.

I'm not concerned with Jolo. I'll fortify it a little, but I don't expect to station anything there permanently, except maybe an AV along with a small AF Bn or Coy for FP ASW. I don't plan to build up the airfield - if he decides to come up the Celebes in 44, I don't want to gift him a useful airbase. If he's going to want to use it for one, I'm going to make him bring his Seabees and build it himself. This will go for other places as well, but I don't want to leave holes in my defensive lines. So I'll have to strike a balance.

For Mindanao, I'm not sure 2 regiments (I think that's all I have there so far) are enough to hold him in place just yet. I'll have to land at Zamboanga soon, and should have Cotobato within a few days. I'll probably land on the NE corner of the island and then sit tight with him bottled up at/near Cagayan.

I'm probably going to let units in the middle PI just starve until I feel like dealing with them, as well. I'll keep a 2E presence in Formosa and northern Luzon to pay visits to them (as well as the CF/Bataan defenders) on a regular basis until I'm ready to move in for the kill.


Time to go home, make these changes, and send the turn. Can't wait to get started.

[Lokasenna]

Speaking of buying out units, do people buy out completely (e.g. General Defense to Southern Army, or West Coast to Pacific Fleet) or do they buy out to unrestricted HQs within the larger restricted command? Even if it's not technically a ground HQ (e.g. 11th Air Flotilla, XII Fighter Command or XII Bomber Command)? What's the norm here?

I want to be a good little boy if it's the former, but Divs are just so damn expensive.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Restructure your R&D program for the Ki-84. I wouldn't go with more than 6 factories for the Ki-84a. Don't forget the independent research tree for the Ki-84b! So you'll have to have another 6 factories for that as well.

Ok, question here. The -84a upgrades to -84r, same as the -84b. I see that the -84b is superior to the -84a and that it is only 11 months behind the -84a while the -84r is 16 months. Basically, why would I not just switch my -84a R&D factories to -84r once the -84a is out (other than that it would require switching other models to produce the Frank, like Tojos...a little loathe to do that)? Maybe this is why my predecessor had 20 factories set up - some go into production, the rest keep R&Ding the -84r.

The separate tree thing is a mess. What do other people do? Start producing with 3 of the 6 R&D factories to begin with, then 3 of 6 from the -84b line as well, and then they have 6 -84r R&Ding? Confusing.

But by my math, if I R&D the -84a with 12 factories (rather than splitting) and produce with 6, then move 6 to R&D the -84r I will accelerate the -84r by a month about twice a month: basically speeding it by 200%, or 3 months for every month of game time. If the -84a arrived, say, 5 months early in 11/43 (I have no idea when the factories would be fully repped and humming along), then I would have the -84r in 6/44 or 7/44 so. Wouldn't that be sooner than the -84b anyway?

[PaxMondo]

84b is arguably the best of the Frank models. It has 2x20mm c/l + 2x20mm front guns. That makes it one of the most powerfully armed fighters for IJ with reasonable speed and good manouver. and these 20mm are the H0-5, which is the US 50calM2 converted to a 20mm. So its the best 20mm in the game, put into a c/l position, it is really a deadly armament.

There are some other a/c using this as well, but most of them are 2E fighters like the Ki-83.

[koniu]

I will suggest use both "b" and "r".
"b" for his guns.Having those CL guns making him best bomber killer in Japanese arsenal.
And "r" for max ceiling. "r" version is very important in games with 2nd best maneuver bound rule. Because "r" will be able to sweep and CAP higher that most of allied planes can go. I think only P-47 can go higher

[obvert]

I'll also have to take another look at the Tojo IIc - I must have missed something when comparing it to the IIb. I'm not familiar with how quickly the IIa R&D factories will repair, so I won't expand them to 30 right away as I don't want to get boned and have them not fully repaired when it arrives. I should be able to get close to 30, however... So you skip the IIb entirely by fully repairing the IIa factories, then upgrading to IIb, and the next turn upgrading those same factories to IIc? Interesting. I could do that with any production chain, couldn't it? Thinking Judy (Y1, next turn Y2, next turn Y3), Zero (up to M5c if not M8), Jill (N2a only has radar over N2 right?), and Oscar as well... Seems a bit gamey if it works that way, but only a bit as their arrival dates are farther away so by not focusing on accelerating the next model until it's a month out before upgrading the R&D factory, I'm delaying the replacement of crappy planes like Vals.

I'll keep the 2 Oscar factories online, I suppose. And I'll look at getting 2-3 factories researching its upgrades. Probably 2 (of the 8 extra Frank factories, 6 will probably go Tojo and 2 to Oscar).

Not sure you're completely getting the R n D upgrade path idea. [:)]

Let the Tojo factories repair now and you might even get the IIa early by a month or two. Then once those turn blue change them to the next model and they should upgrade with no damage to the factories and begin researching the IIb. When that is researched upgrade again to the IIc.

It's important to stay on top of things as the month changes over. I've had several paths of R n D change to production instead of staying R n D and then I had to restart factories for them. Bad. I usually do a save right before I start messing with airframe factories in case something unusual happens, which it can.

Once the research is finished you then upgrade the factories to the next model. If for instance you want to go from the Tojo IIa to the IIc with a factory you must upgrade to the IIb first, then upgrade to the IIc.

Using the upgrade paths does make things much quicker, almost too quick in some cases, but it only works for a few planes with many versions. You probably know this but the A6M2 NOT upgrading to the A6M3 or A6M3a. It upgrades to the Sen Baku in 44! So don't' over expand the A6M2 factories. Wait to do that with the A6M3a which is on the A6M3 path. Also the Rufe upgrades to the A6M5, so it's a quick way to get factories repaired when doing R n D as it shows up earlier (also meaning the factories with repair more quickly).

The main upgrading airframe paths to concern yourself with are the Tojo (to get to the IIc model quickly) and the Judy (to get to the D4Y3 model with 8 hex range ASAP). The Oscar is nice also as it's so long a path, as is the A6M, but neither is a great fighter by mid-43. Just good escorts and necessary (the Ki-43 for later kamis and the A6M for the KB use).

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: koniu

I will suggest use both "b" and "r".
"b" for his guns.Having those CL guns making him best bomber killer in Japanese arsenal.
And "r" for max ceiling. "r" version is very important in games with 2nd best maneuver bound rule. Because "r" will be able to sweep and CAP higher that most of allied planes can go. I think only P-47 can go higher

The 'r' is also faster, and every little bit can help in late war. Well, help a little.

For bomber killers don't neglect the cheap deep upgrading of the Tony line if even just to get to the Ki-100 for HI interceptor role. It also has the HO-5 on the centerline but isn't fast enough to do well against Allied late war fighters. I should get it 3-4 months before the Ki-84b and 5-6 months before the Ki-83.

[Captain Cruft]

I really don't know why people obsess about killing bombers. Pretty much anything beyond a Nate can do this. It's killing fighters that's the problem. Which is why I believe that the Ki-84r is the most important plane due to its climb rate and maneuverability.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft

I really don't know why people obsess about killing bombers. Pretty much anything beyond a Nate can do this. It's killing fighters that's the problem. Which is why I believe that the Ki-84r is the most important plane due to its climb rate and maneuverability.

You most likely haven't faced bombers the way Jocke uses them![;)]

With 200-300 4E coming every turn in two theatres, killing bombers is a priority. Massed like that they often don't need escorts. Even some turns where I've gotten to them with no sweeps coming first I lose 10 fighters and he loses 15 bombers, and before the George the numbers could be more i favor of the bombers. I'll still take that, but in late game this will be even more important I feel, as those numbers could be even larger.

Even the 2E can be tough on their own once he gets the B-25D-1 that has a defensive rating (58) almost twice that of a B-24 because it's 8 x 50cal on the centerline are taken into the defensive calculations. I've had them intercepted with no escorts and get 2:1 kills against my best fighters even though they have many less actual defensive guns than the B-25C which I flame regularly. Not fun.

In my game the Ki-84r will be the more important fighter due to it's ability to use all maneuver bands based on our HR and it's speed and climb. The Ki-84b will be important, but not as much I predict. I could be proved wrong though. That's the fun of the late war, maybe the only fun of it, as I get to play with new toys while the Empire goes up in flames. [:D]

[Captain Cruft]

Remember I have played Downfall PBEM twice. No amount of bombers is a problem if you can get lots of fighters to attack them. I even had a Nate shoot down a B-29 once. The problem is that these fighters usually get Swept away first.

This is why I am totally obsessed with the 20 hex exclusion zone around the Home Islands.

Of course the Ki-84b is a good fighter, but I won't be building it.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft

Remember I have played Downfall PBEM twice. No amount of bombers is a problem if you can get lots of fighters to attack them. I even had a Nate shoot down a B-29 once. The problem is that these fighters usually get Swept away first.

This is why I am totally obsessed with the 20 hex exclusion zone around the Home Islands.

Of course the Ki-84b is a good fighter, but I won't be building it.

Got it. Yes, farther away is better than closer.

How many Nates were lost when one B-29 was shot down? [:D]

I had 18 A6M5c shoot down about 20 B-29s with no losses, and I still think something went wrong with the code that day. Really odd. Freaked out Jocke and now he only bombs at night unless he's sure there are no fighters around. Almost wish I'd only got 3 of them that day so I could have got more later with Georges and Franks.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: obvert

I'll also have to take another look at the Tojo IIc - I must have missed something when comparing it to the IIb. I'm not familiar with how quickly the IIa R&D factories will repair, so I won't expand them to 30 right away as I don't want to get boned and have them not fully repaired when it arrives. I should be able to get close to 30, however... So you skip the IIb entirely by fully repairing the IIa factories, then upgrading to IIb, and the next turn upgrading those same factories to IIc? Interesting. I could do that with any production chain, couldn't it? Thinking Judy (Y1, next turn Y2, next turn Y3), Zero (up to M5c if not M8), Jill (N2a only has radar over N2 right?), and Oscar as well... Seems a bit gamey if it works that way, but only a bit as their arrival dates are farther away so by not focusing on accelerating the next model until it's a month out before upgrading the R&D factory, I'm delaying the replacement of crappy planes like Vals.

I'll keep the 2 Oscar factories online, I suppose. And I'll look at getting 2-3 factories researching its upgrades. Probably 2 (of the 8 extra Frank factories, 6 will probably go Tojo and 2 to Oscar).

Not sure you're completely getting the R n D upgrade path idea. [:)]

Let the Tojo factories repair now and you might even get the IIa early by a month or two. Then once those turn blue change them to the next model and they should upgrade with no damage to the factories and begin researching the IIb. When that is researched upgrade again to the IIc.

...

Using the upgrade paths does make things much quicker, almost too quick in some cases, but it only works for a few planes with many versions. You probably know this but the A6M2 NOT upgrading to the A6M3 or A6M3a. It upgrades to the Sen Baku in 44! So don't' over expand the A6M2 factories. Wait to do that with the A6M3a which is on the A6M3 path. Also the Rufe upgrades to the A6M5, so it's a quick way to get factories repaired when doing R n D as it shows up earlier (also meaning the factories with repair more quickly).

I've always done the "blue thing". I'll just keep doing it, then. I get pretty excited about the R&D, I probably spend most of my time on air groups and air production for the IJ side (unless I'm doing a lot of complex ground orders). I haven't missed one turning blue yet, and would be pretty embarrassed if I did because I look just about every turn. I'm sure it will happen someday, though. I'll just call it an in-universe research accident. Lab exploded, or something.

I learned the A6M2 not upgrading to a useful airframe in my first AI game. In this game, I've set most of my A6M research to A6M3a (I have one A6M3 factory and one A6M2-N).

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: koniu

I will suggest use both "b" and "r".
"b" for his guns.Having those CL guns making him best bomber killer in Japanese arsenal.
And "r" for max ceiling. "r" version is very important in games with 2nd best maneuver bound rule. Because "r" will be able to sweep and CAP higher that most of allied planes can go. I think only P-47 can go higher

The 'r' is also faster, and every little bit can help in late war. Well, help a little.

For bomber killers don't neglect the cheap deep upgrading of the Tony line if even just to get to the Ki-100 for HI interceptor role. It also has the HO-5 on the centerline but isn't fast enough to do well against Allied late war fighters. I should get it 3-4 months before the Ki-84b and 5-6 months before the Ki-83.

The Tony has so many not-as-good-as-Tojo models to go through to actually get to the Ki-100, though. I still have the beginning 2 factories set to Ki-100 research, but...I was thinking I would change them to something else.

This game is going to be such a learning experience, I expect to get clobbered late in the war [8D]. And probably because I won't have enough of the right plane.

[obvert]

I learned the A6M2 not upgrading to a useful airframe in my first AI game. In this game, I've set most of my A6M research to A6M3a (I have one A6M3 factory and one A6M2-N).

You would be better served with some A6M3 factories, as it comes sooner than the A6M3a, and then upgrade them at no cost once it's fully researched. Also, it's good to have a few A6M2-N going to get to the A6M5 early, which is the main KB fighter for the entire middle of the war. It's much more durable than earlier versions and quicker, so even though it sucks, it's a noticeable difference after the others. Some players don't value the A6M line as you don't really care after mid43 to get to the later versions as the Hellcat beats them all, but most of your big CV battles will likely happen in 42-43 and can really impact the entire course of the game. The best fighter I can field is the one I want on my CVs as soon as possible.

The Tony has so many not-as-good-as-Tojo models to go through to actually get to the Ki-100, though. I still have the beginning 2 factories set to Ki-100 research, but...I was thinking I would change them to something else.

This game is going to be such a learning experience, I expect to get clobbered late in the war . And probably because I won't have enough of the right plane.

Yes, but no need to build them. I did to see how they performed in different roles for myself. Not bad really, but the Id is decent plane for it's era with service 2 and centerline Ho-5 cannons, the gun everyone raves about. it's just not that quick at 360mph, but the Tojo IIc is only 376mph and doesn't have those guns. The Tony's main drawback might be slow climb rate, so you would have to use it slightly differently to other planes like Tojo and Jack that get up in a hurry.

I'm phasing out the Tojo IIc and the Helen to free up those engine factories for late war planes (and because the Tojo is getting eaten alive in my game) and using the Tony Id for now until the Ki-100 arrives using the Ha-33 which I have oodles of already. That also lets the Kawasaki Ha-60 factory be shut down and later transferred to something more generally useful.

I figure the gun alone has to help it do better than the Tojo has been faring, but I'm only starting to get numbers now so we'll see. Until now I've only used Tonys in small groups of 18.

There are several different method to think about.

1. Optimize: streamline everything, only build the absolute best models for each service branch and make sure engine planning follows suit.

2. Diversify: Learn about how the various planes can work through use and discover various methods enabled by the differing characteristics of each airframe. (I would never have discovered that the Jack is a pretty useful plane if I had streamlined).

3. Go nuts: Build it all and see what happens. Don't worry about ultimate success and just have fun, even with Sonias and Nates up into 44-45, and why not build that silly CV capable chopper while you're at it. Oh, wait, that's what the Japanese did in the real war ... [:D]

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: obvert

1. Optimize: streamline everything, only build the absolute best models for each service branch and make sure engine planning follows suit.

2. Diversify: Learn about how the various planes can work through use and discover various methods enabled by the differing characteristics of each airframe. (I would never have discovered that the Jack is a pretty useful plane if I had streamlined).

3. Go nuts: Build it all and see what happens. Don't worry about ultimate success and just have fun, even with Sonias and Nates up into 44-45, and why not build that silly CV capable chopper while you're at it. Oh, wait, that's what the Japanese did in the real war ... [:D]

Sounds "orky". I'm more of the optimization school of thought. I'm thinking of cutting the Jack and just going George, since PDU is on, but haven't changed the Jack R&D factories yet (not that it would stop me from building them, but it's easier if I don't).

Thanks to all. I should be able to send the turn tonight before I have to run out to meet the lady for dinner. How do you tell if you're an addict? If you're sneaking in turns, I would guess.

[koniu]

With my little experience in game i can tell that having CL guns is good.
When I using Tojo most of hits they do to enemy planes are mostly damage only. I almost sure that if the have 20mm guns instated of 12,7mm MG most of those hits will be instant kill.

Allied planes are durable. Lightning 37, Thunderbolt 36, Mustang 32, when most of Japanese planes is 28-30. When war is progressing and gap in quality for both sides is bigger and Your planes become mostly prey not hunter i want to kill not only damage enemy planes when i have hit on enemy, and for that there is nothing better that CL 20mm guns.

The same rule apply when fighting bombers. Tojo work well when You can have numbers on Your side and single bomber can be hit multiple times, but when enemy have numeric advantage most of planes will not get to firing position so those few that manage to hit should give as many damage as passable. And again we back to CL 20mm guns.

I think in my next game i will give chance to Ki-100 as replacement of Tojo as late war SR1 fighter . Lower speed will have no big difference and CL guns will give some good kills. Also Tony is more durable that Tojo.
And if we take all what i try to say Ki83b is best compromise between fighter vs. fighter and fighter vs bomber combat. If he only have at lest SR2 building Tojo or Tony in late war would be pointless

[PaxMondo]

C/L = 2x accuracy of Front. It is a big deal. I have always noticed it in my games.

[Lokasenna]

Yeah, I'm pretty impressed with the Ki-83's potential.

How do people feel about the Frances and Lorna? They seem like they come too late to do any real good. The only good thing I can see about the P1Y2 is that it has the most accurate/highest effect Japanese aircraft radar.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
They seem like they come too late to do any real good.

That's my standard view of these two.

[Lokasenna]

Turns out Fuso and Hyuga had mid-teens System damage. One of the DDs also. They must've been out doing something... Still, no excuse to have all these combat assets sitting in the HI so early.

Looked deeper at the Midway invasion TF. The 16th Inf Rgt was prepped 100% for Singapore, while the 51st Nav Gd was 47% prepped for Johnston. Ugh! And they were already at the 50s in disruption. Even if I had decided to go ahead with it, that would be...rough. Since they're already this far east, I'm going to go unload at Truk and refuel/rest the troops. The Nav Gd at the least will probably head to the Rabaul area. I may send the 16th back to Malaya - the need for forces there is a bit dire.

5 midget subs and carriers going to head out from Kwajalein. After dumping their one-way minions, I'll send them to normal patrol zones. I'm thinking attempts on Suva, maybe Sydney, and definitely Soerabaja. He may have done a full Sir Robin in the air in the SRA, but the ground forces appear to be mostly in place still. I'm hoping to put enough pressure on Java that he doesn't bring in reinforcements here, or in Sumatra. The quicker I have these, the better. Also have 327 Type 88 mines sitting in the pool, so I'm going to go drop 160 of them at Rangoon/Akyab/SomewhereElse (80/40/40). The para attack on Port Blair needs to wait for my Thalias to arrive in Bangkok, which should be tomorrow.

Also sending a bunch of my extra Av Support at Takao to Makassar. Going to get started on separating Java from NW Aus and Ambon is already set with an HQa.

Forgot to do some sub orders before I ended the turn...oops. But I've got some Manchukuo armor heading to Jehol to sit before I buy it out, plan to use it to push on Nanyang and later Loyang/Chengchow. Excited for that bit.