Quickie Questions

[Sparkle]

Hi, I am new to the game, and so far I like it very much. That said, I am an old hand at wargaming, both virtual and tabletop.
I am therefore a little fussy about reality within the games I play and thus have a couple of questions...

1. How is combat engine modeled to such an extent that (playing the Overlord campaign)a combined attack of several of my Batts with support from 25+ of each late model Spitfires, Typhoons and Lightnings, can lose 11 Spitfires, 8 Lightnings and 5 Typhoons to a German defensive formation of 2 small calibre AA guns, a quad flak plus only a handful of Stukas and 3 x me110s (these should not touch Spits as fighters).
To my mind this is ludicrous, unless there is a game mechanic I am unaware of? ie - are there off board long range AA in play? Night-fighters? Fuel loss and ditched planes? Even then, 11 IV Spits...?!

2. My US Batts are attacking the fixed coastal defences. Upon returning fire, I noticed that all the coastal 'nests' in the area defended and then fired back - totaling over 520 rifle squads plus their individual guns. How can the nests fire upon my Batt that is up to 10km away. Is it just the 105mm guns? Because they do a lot of damage for barely a handful of guns...

3. I am losing a strangely large number of Art to what I am assuming is counter-battery fire. But this is a large number considering the enemy has no sighted targets (air spotters or units nearby)- ie my guns are firing from several km and they happily return fire over 10km and consistently take out 3-6 of my 25pdrs - blind. How does this work? That didn't really happen irl. .

4. The 100% entrenchment upon the third stage of 'dig-in' - - does this mean, mines, new-built pillboxes, tank ditches etc? Because that is a lot to expect from the lads after just 36 hours days of digging in? And how much does the 100% give as a bonus?

5. The large single supply discs, coloured red/white at seemingly random places on the map - what do these signify? Are they the enemy supply dumps?

6. To increase supply per turn, it is best to remain still. Does digging-in count as moving in terms of increasing supply?

Thanks for answers!

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: Sparkle

Hi, I am new to the game, and so far I like it very much. That said, I am an old hand at wargaming, both virtual and tabletop.
I am therefore a little fussy about reality within the games I play and thus have a couple of questions...

1. How is combat engine modeled to such an extent that (playing the Overlord campaign)a combined attack of several of my Batts with support from 25+ of each late model Spitfires, Typhoons and Lightnings, can lose 11 Spitfires, 8 Lightnings and 5 Typhoons to a German defensive formation of 2 small calibre AA guns, a quad flak plus only a handful of Stukas and 3 x me110s (these should not touch Spits as fighters).
To my mind this is ludicrous, unless there is a game mechanic I am unaware of? ie - are there off board long range AA in play? Night-fighters? Fuel loss and ditched planes? Even then, 11 IV Spits...?!

Were they permanent losses or mostly just returned to the pools?

2. My US Batts are attacking the fixed coastal defences. Upon returning fire, I noticed that all the coastal 'nests' in the area defended and then fired back - totaling over 520 rifle squads plus their individual guns. How can the nests fire upon my Batt that is up to 10km away. Is it just the 105mm guns? Because they do a lot of damage for barely a handful of guns...

The combat report lists all the defending equipment - to detail how much of it was destroyed. Only in-range equipment would have returned counterbattery.

3. I am losing a strangely large number of Art to what I am assuming is counter-battery fire. But this is a large number considering the enemy has no sighted targets (air spotters or units nearby)- ie my guns are firing from several km and they happily return fire over 10km and consistently take out 3-6 of my 25pdrs - blind. How does this work? That didn't really happen irl. .

On the contrary, counterbattery is guided by seismic triangulation. It is very accurate. Note that counterbattery only occurs if you bombard a hex containing ranged guns (no ground assault). If you support a ground assault against such a hex there will be no counterbattery.

4. The 100% entrenchment upon the third stage of 'dig-in' - - does this mean, mines, new-built pillboxes, tank ditches etc? Because that is a lot to expect from the lads after just 36 hours days of digging in? And how much does the 100% give as a bonus?

Hex entrenchment levels only affect how fast a unit can subsequently dig-in in that hex. Combat bonuses are only gained via the D, E, & F deployment levels.

5. The large single supply discs, coloured red/white at seemingly random places on the map - what do these signify? Are they the enemy supply dumps?

Sounds like supply points. Red side's are red, blue side's are blue.

6. To increase supply per turn, it is best to remain still. Does digging-in count as moving in terms of increasing supply?

I forget. Run a test!

[Sparkle]

Thanks for replies.

1. Not sure about permanence of losses - I was just amazed at the amount of Mk 9 Spitfires and Mosquitoes etc. that I am losing to me110s, a few MG42s on the ground and a flak or two. Not sure if these losses are accurate to real raids... (?)

2. Makes sense - thanks. It must be the big 105mm guns alone then - I guess if they've pre-sighted the arty choke points - as they did in Normandy it would account for big inf. losses.

3. Hm. Interesting info re. counter batt strikes. The details I read were about N. Africa and how the accurate arty retaliatory strikes were carried out using air spotters or behind the lines SAS types. Interesting about the seismic whasisname...

4. ok.

5. ok.

6. I did, but it varies. There are so many variables to the supply, as I understand it - it's hard to get a flat reading from turn to turn. I'll look again.


New one:

7. Why does a whole division as one unit occasionally turn orange (as in - reorganise) at the same time, when only half of it was attack/bombarded?

Thanks again - very useful help.

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: Sparkle
7. Why does a whole division as one unit occasionally turn orange (as in - reorganise) at the same time, when only half of it was attack/bombarded?

The game engine treats that entire division as one unit reguarding reorganization. That's been my experience and I've seen it a lot.
I'm not sure why it's treated that way........it seems like the unit that was attacked would be the only one to go into reorg but I guess it
was easier to code the game to treat the entire division that way. I'm not sure. Anyway, that's my understanding.

Welcome to TOAW by the way. There's lots of friendly people that would be more than happy to answer questions....me for one.
So keep those questions coming. That's how you learn. That and lots of practice. You may enjoy reading some AAR's. Some of the
better ones will display tricks and traps and you can learn a lot.

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: Sparkle

New one:

7. Why does a whole division as one unit occasionally turn orange (as in - reorganise) at the same time, when only half of it was attack/bombarded?

I assume the division's sub-units are contained in a divisional formation. So, the formation underwent combat reorganization. Formations are subject to reorganization the same as individual units.

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: Sparkle

3. Hm. Interesting info re. counter batt strikes. The details I read were about N. Africa and how the accurate arty retaliatory strikes were carried out using air spotters or behind the lines SAS types. Interesting about the seismic whasisname...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_ranging

[Sparkle]

Welcome to TOAW by the way. There's lots of friendly people that would be more than happy to answer questions....me for one.
So keep those questions coming. That's how you learn. That and lots of practice. You may enjoy reading some AAR's. Some of the
better ones will display tricks and traps and you can learn a lot.

Thanks! I will.

Thanks for info on counter striking using audio - fascinating. I kinda knew that was out there, but didn't know it a was WW2 tactic.

[Sparkle]

And as for the whole div re-orging - I guess if you look at the 7th Armoured, Desert Rats, at Villers Bocage - the whole division was paralyzed by only Wittmann and half a dozen Tigers and Mk IVs, even though Wittmann only took out a dozen or more tanks and the same number of transport, the whole Division came to a standstill.

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: Sparkle

And as for the whole div re-orging - I guess if you look at the 7th Armoured, Desert Rats, at Villers Bocage - the whole division was paralyzed by only Wittmann and half a dozen Tigers and Mk IVs, even though Wittmann only took out a dozen or more tanks and the same number of transport, the whole Division came to a standstill.

Be aware that formations are also subject to shock reorganization, if the side has a negative shock factor. This could be thought of as modeling C&C issues.

[Sparkle]

So....... can you explain this one?

Still on the Overlord campaign - and an enemy SS unit comprising of:
12 x Tigers
2 x 25mm AA guns
1 x smg squad
1 x eng squad

...attacked my 11th Hussars recce unit:
4 x 20 spaag
7 x AEG
74 x Humber scout cars
57 x Daimler scout cars...

The SS formation LOST 11 of the 12 Tigers in the attack! My recce unit was dug in 67%.

Now, I am pretty sure, fine though the 11th Hussars were - that these units had no anti-Tiger capabilities. How does the game come to the conclusion that 11 x Mk VI panzers could be lost in such a way? Even if surrounded by the substantially larger force - which could be easily done - they could run over the AEGs et al easily.

Or - is there a game mechanic that I'm unaware of? Breakdowns? Bogging-in in wet weather? etc...

thx.

[sPzAbt653]

Could be a hoard of Typhoons flew over and shot up the Tigers ?

Watch the combat reports for units that support the attack/defense.

[Sparkle]

No aircraft in the AAR - I checked...

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: Sparkle

7 x AEG

I can't figure out what an AEG is. Could you have meant the AEC Scout Car? That has an AT of 11, which can kill a tiger (armor of 10). Also, not just aircraft, but artillery can also kill tanks. Was the defense supported at all? There is also a percent chance for a tank to expose its side armor, allowing weaker guns to kill it as well.

[Telumar]

Don't forget terrain - what's the terrain in the battle location?

[Sparkle]

No artillery support.
And the terrain was bocage - inevitably.

Yes, the AEC's do have a HEAT AT weapon, later models (around the time of D-Day) had the 75mm which could certainly penetrate a Tiger's side and rear. And I guess with over 120 armoured cars to distract the Tigers, a side or rear shot was possible. Still, it's pushing the boundaries of reality...

It's not a deal breaker - I'm loving the game.

[Sparkle]

8. How does the Inventory and Replacements window work?

Not sure I understand...

On Hand: I guess the units that are in play?
Rate: ...? replenishment rate per turn?
Turns: ... ? No idea.
Assigned: How many have been allocated thus far?
Lost: I guess the number of these that have died horribly at my command?

[Telumar]

Almost right..


On Hand: I guess the units that are in play? Yes. Stockpile, items available for distribution to the units
Rate: ...? replenishment rate per turn? - Yes
Turns: ... ? Produced from turn x to y
Assigned: How many have been allocated thus far? - Yes, total count of equipment on the map.
Lost: I guess the number of these that have died horribly at my command? - Yes

[Sparkle]

Following on with these quickies....

9. Does the terrain affect different units abilities to attack/defend? ie do armoured units get penalties in forests and towns?

10. How do I assign art. to use opportunity fire - that is, fire automatically on enemy as he moves - I've seen the AI do it to me?

[Telumar]

ORIGINAL: Sparkle

Following on with these quickies....

9. Does the terrain affect different units abilities to attack/defend? ie do armoured units get penalties in forests and towns?

Of course. It's all in the manual and in the What's new pdf for the 3.4 patch since there was a change from the initial terrain effects.

ORIGINAL: Sparkle
10. How do I assign art. to use opportunity fire - that is, fire automatically on enemy as he moves - I've seen the AI do it to me?

You cannot. What you've seen was most probably air interdiction.

[Sparkle]

So.... going back to one of my original questions - about the Recce units. I said before that the AI was losing a number of Tigers and heavy kit to my Brit Recce unit.
I am now playing Axis - and guess what - my SS Batts. are attacking a formation of Brit. Recce. Daimlers, a couple of AEC's and that kinda thing, no heavy armour. And my units are being stuffed time after time. There's no air support on the Allied side for these attacks - I double checked. I just lost 12 pz IV's and before that I had difficulty overrunning them with 3x fresh Batts.

I know that these Recce units have a high defence rating, presumably from their mobility - and therefore would be difficult to actually defeat/pin down? But how are they able to return such heavy fire and put so many heavy (ish) tanks out of action? (There is no air support or additional Art.)