Can you delete all PO objectives for a single formation?

[erichswafford]

I love using the PO-assist mode for a lot of things, but it's really cumbersome to have to delete ALL the PO's pre-programmed objectives for *each* formation. Some of these formations have around 20-30 obectives each! That's a lot of right-clicking to get things back to zero.

Now, I was clever enough to load the scenario (Red Thunder 88, as it happens) and remove all the objectives. Trouble is, that removed the PO objectives for *both* sides. I want the PO objectives removed for just one side, since I'm playing against Elmer.

Is there any more-efficient way to simply "delete all objectives" for a formation?

If not, then it would make a great addition to the game. I really think PO-assist evens the odds with Elmer, and feels more appropriate given the player's ostensible role as Supreme Maximum Leader and all that.

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: kondor999

I love using the PO-assist mode for a lot of things, but it's really cumbersome to have to delete ALL the PO's pre-programmed objectives for *each* formation. Some of these formations have around 20-30 obectives each! That's a lot of right-clicking to get things back to zero.

Now, I was clever enough to load the scenario (Red Thunder 88, as it happens) and remove all the objectives. Trouble is, that removed the PO objectives for *both* sides. I want the PO objectives removed for just one side, since I'm playing against Elmer.

Is there any more-efficient way to simply "delete all objectives" for a formation?

If not, then it would make a great addition to the game. I really think PO-assist evens the odds with Elmer, and feels more appropriate given the player's ostensible role as Supreme Maximum Leader and all that.

Why do you need to delete all the formation's objectives? The formation is going to go after the next objective that is enemy controlled. It will rarely be able to reach more than one or two objectives per turn. So, you really only need to edit the first objective (sequentially) that is still enemy controlled, or maybe one more after that. Delete that objective and then place it where you want. The formation will head there. That's a setting you'll want to repeatedly adjust each turn as things unfold.

[Curtis Lemay]

In addition, I think there is a way to "drag-and-drop" objectives graphically, if I recall. So, you don't even have to delete them first.

[erichswafford]

Well, it looks incredibly messy to have, say, 15 formations each with 30 or so objectives. When I zoom out and try to make sure I've got everything covered, it looks like a tangled spiderweb.

Check it out!

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

ORIGINAL: kondor999

I love using the PO-assist mode for a lot of things, but it's really cumbersome to have to delete ALL the PO's pre-programmed objectives for *each* formation. Some of these formations have around 20-30 obectives each! That's a lot of right-clicking to get things back to zero.

Now, I was clever enough to load the scenario (Red Thunder 88, as it happens) and remove all the objectives. Trouble is, that removed the PO objectives for *both* sides. I want the PO objectives removed for just one side, since I'm playing against Elmer.

Is there any more-efficient way to simply "delete all objectives" for a formation?

If not, then it would make a great addition to the game. I really think PO-assist evens the odds with Elmer, and feels more appropriate given the player's ostensible role as Supreme Maximum Leader and all that.

Why do you need to delete all the formation's objectives? The formation is going to go after the next objective that is enemy controlled. It will rarely be able to reach more than one or two objectives per turn. So, you really only need to edit the first objective (sequentially) that is still enemy controlled, or maybe one more after that. Delete that objective and then place it where you want. The formation will head there. That's a setting you'll want to repeatedly adjust each turn as things unfold.

[erichswafford]

One other thing that I think would be incredibly useful:

Instead of having the "E" button (sorry, not sure what else to call it) activate the PO to move every formation at once, it would be great if it could only move the *active* formation. It's somewhat tedious to go through every formation, set up the objectives and then have them all move at once. It also makes sequencing somewhat difficult (some formations I'd like to have move 1st, 2nd, etc.). Lastly, this replicates how you actually move when you're playing "manually". I typically move each formation in turn - I don't skip around willy-nilly the way the PO does.

[sPzAbt653]

Is there any more-efficient way to simply "delete all objectives" for a formation?

I can't remember, but cutting and pasting a formation in the editor does something. It either deletes the objectives, or the deployments. Test it out if you feel like it, I'm too lazy today.

[erichswafford]

This is from the "Elmer Assist Primer":

In most cases, you only need to set 2-4 objectives to give the AI guidance when moving. A lot of scenarios use 10+ objectives and you may want/need to delete all but 2-3. The AI movement seems more predictable with fewer, closer objectives and is less likely to be confused on what line of approach you really want the formation to take. It also seems to reduce the “strays” in the formation.

From this, it would seem advisable to delete all but 2-3 objectives to prevent Elmer from becoming less-than-predictable? I'll try an experiment where I delete all but 1 objective and then compare Elmer's actions to how he does with 20+ objectives, but with the 1st objective being the same.

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: kondor999

Well, it looks incredibly messy to have, say, 15 formations each with 30 or so objectives. When I zoom out and try to make sure I've got everything covered, it looks like a tangled spiderweb.

Check it out!

But you don't have to display all the tracks at the same time. You can display just the active formation's track:

[Curtis Lemay]

Then it is easy to move a couple of objectives. Unfortunately, the "drag & drop" option is only in the editor, not in-game.

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: kondor999

This is from the "Elmer Assist Primer":

In most cases, you only need to set 2-4 objectives to give the AI guidance when moving. A lot of scenarios use 10+ objectives and you may want/need to delete all but 2-3. The AI movement seems more predictable with fewer, closer objectives and is less likely to be confused on what line of approach you really want the formation to take. It also seems to reduce the “strays” in the formation.

From this, it would seem advisable to delete all but 2-3 objectives to prevent Elmer from becoming less-than-predictable? I'll try an experiment where I delete all but 1 objective and then compare Elmer's actions to how he does with 20+ objectives, but with the 1st objective being the same.

I think that is just about twists and turns in the objective paths. That can confuse the PO as to where its flanks are. So, as long as the path is fairly straight, it shouldn't matter how many objectives are in it.

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: kondor999

One other thing that I think would be incredibly useful:

Instead of having the "E" button (sorry, not sure what else to call it) activate the PO to move every formation at once, it would be great if it could only move the *active* formation. It's somewhat tedious to go through every formation, set up the objectives and then have them all move at once. It also makes sequencing somewhat difficult (some formations I'd like to have move 1st, 2nd, etc.). Lastly, this replicates how you actually move when you're playing "manually". I typically move each formation in turn - I don't skip around willy-nilly the way the PO does.

Of course, you could set all formations to "manual" except for the one you are mucking about with. Then the Execute button will only move that one.

[shunwick]

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

ORIGINAL: kondor999

One other thing that I think would be incredibly useful:

Instead of having the "E" button (sorry, not sure what else to call it) activate the PO to move every formation at once, it would be great if it could only move the *active* formation. It's somewhat tedious to go through every formation, set up the objectives and then have them all move at once. It also makes sequencing somewhat difficult (some formations I'd like to have move 1st, 2nd, etc.). Lastly, this replicates how you actually move when you're playing "manually". I typically move each formation in turn - I don't skip around willy-nilly the way the PO does.

Of course, you could set all formations to "manual" except for the one you are mucking about with. Then the Execute button will only move that one.

An even easier way would be to use the Move One Formation option on the menu.

Best wishes,
Steve

[erichswafford]

ORIGINAL: shunwick

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

ORIGINAL: kondor999

One other thing that I think would be incredibly useful:

Instead of having the "E" button (sorry, not sure what else to call it) activate the PO to move every formation at once, it would be great if it could only move the *active* formation. It's somewhat tedious to go through every formation, set up the objectives and then have them all move at once. It also makes sequencing somewhat difficult (some formations I'd like to have move 1st, 2nd, etc.). Lastly, this replicates how you actually move when you're playing "manually". I typically move each formation in turn - I don't skip around willy-nilly the way the PO does.

Of course, you could set all formations to "manual" except for the one you are mucking about with. Then the Execute button will only move that one.

An even easier way would be to use the Move One Formation option on the menu.

Best wishes,
Steve

Awesome! I totally overlooked that "Move One Formation" option. That solves 90% of my issues. LeMay, thanks for the clarification as well. I guess as long as the current objective path isn't too tortuous, it doesn't matter what lies beyond (in terms of confusing the AI).

Right now I'm doing a comparison of Elmer-assisted vs Manual play on the Red Thunder '88 scenario. Should be interesting I think! I sorta like how Elmer's various screw-ups might represent the "friction" of war: lost/misunderstood orders, radio jamming, incompetence, etc. I can tell the guys where to go and what to do, but actually getting it done is their deal.

Thanks,

Erich

[erichswafford]

What a helpful forum, btw. Really appreciate the help.

I've been playing TOAW since the very beginning, and I keep coming back to it because I like the freedom of sequencing. It really is something that could never be done in a boardgame. Yes, it can feel complex at times (no "phases" and such to provide structure to the turn) but I like how I can impose whatever structure I want. I move, then resolve the simplest/least time-consuming attacks, then move again if I can and repeat until I run out of time.

What I really like is how it simulates "over-reach". At some point, if you push just a little too hard, you end up with units out on the edge of their supply tether, exhausted and highly vulnerable to counter-attack. It just "feels" right. And sometimes you just have to risk it - which also feels quite right.

I could blather on forever, but I think TOAW still has a following because all of us sense something quite wonderful/authentic in how it handles "The Operational Art". Nothing else has ever attempted such a fundamentally complex - and yet totally flexible - turn structure.

Regards,

Erich

[shunwick]

Oh, and I forgot... Just below the Move One Formation option you will notice the Objective Tracks option. Most scenarios only come with one objective track set so you can always just change the track. That will delete all the objectives for your side and leave you with a clean slate. It leaves the other side unchanged. One thing I am not sure about is what happens if there is an event which changes the objective tracks. It would be worth testing.

Best wishes,
Steve

[erichswafford]

ORIGINAL: shunwick

Oh, and I forgot... Just below the Move One Formation option you will notice the Objective Tracks option. Most scenarios only come with one objective track set so you can always just change the track. That will delete all the objectives for your side and leave you with a clean slate. It leaves the other side unchanged. One thing I am not sure about is what happens if there is an event which changes the objective tracks. It would be worth testing.

Best wishes,
Steve

Hey, that worked! I just changed to Track 3 or 4 and since there's nothing defined, I've got the blank slate I wanted. That's pretty damn cool how there can be 5 parallel tracks that (I presume) can change in response to events or on a timeline.