The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

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JohnDillworth
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

Post by JohnDillworth »

E.g. If CR was really sneaky what would happen now is that as John3rd panics in reaction to this invasion the forces off the coast of Oz would turn out to be a real invasion force and would, while he's distracted, move in and take what we were told were their targets.... or this would happen with an invasion somewhere else which was completely off the radar (CENPAC ). I do think that CR is making for Sumatra with awfully little in the way of ground forces and this makes me wonder just where his other ground forces are. I'd be following Sumatra with another operation timed to go in once KB hit the Sumatran region.. I guess we're going to see how sneakily and deeply CR thought about this.

Nemo, even if CR doesn't have the resources to do anything in the SW pacific now (mostly no air cover)if his current operation is successful it puts Japan in a terrible position in 6-12 months. The Allies can choose to hit in the DEI or the Central Pacific with little risk as long as the location of the KB is known. Burma is no longer tenable so China supply will open up. Unless John splits the KB it will just burn fuel going from one ocean to the next to respond to the Allied thrusts. If CR can start to choke off fuel and oil it limits the fleet further, not to mention aircraft production. I think this really opens up the Central Pacific. The Allies only have to bring enough Carrier air to hold off LBA.. By need and by player nature I think Japan will come seeking the decisive battle sooner , rather than later.
Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly
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SuluSea
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

Post by SuluSea »

ORIGINAL: 1275psi

way, way back in UV days, Wobbly and myself itroduced the individual AARs. Lots of people said it could never work. But think about it, now we all just accept that no one worthy of these forums would ever peek at their opponents AAR , and now we worry about other people accidently giving away secrets.
really, over the years there has been amazingly few indescetions, few cheating moments here on the forums.

I really think that overall, the members of this forum are (in the main) an amazingly honorable and honest lot

hats of to every one

OH, and great AAR, what a lot of fun


I agree with this sentiment 100%.

I've been enjoying reading both AARs on occasion and found myself captivated with CRs movement up the east side of Austrailia. I felt it wasn't his style to go head on with a massive invasion (after what looked like it was telegraphed) and figured something else was in the offing especially when he wrote " I'm counting the days until 18th Division gets to Burma" . I felt something was happening in the Bay of Bengal but not Sumatra.. Enjoyed very much watching it unfold. Super play!!


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Q-Ball
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

Post by Q-Ball »

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

Wow,its a bit weird you don't have the shipping. I am at the same gametime as you and a lot more xAPs etc were lost before I took over than you've lost and yet I recently shifted 150 unused transports from India and Oz to CONUSA. That has still left me with about 200 transports scattered between Oz and India for my forces there... and that's after more severe losses than you've taken.

I think the Allies can actually feel a bit constrained in troop lift capacity, but the fix for that is to start mass xAP conversions as Allies, particularly the Ec2-Liberty ships. Those, however, cannot convert after the 6/42 upgrade, so you have to get on it early. Some of the Brit xAKs that are convertible also have xAP conversions blocked by upgrades. It's too late at Dan's point in the game to go back and do that.

Maybe, Dan, you didn't do alot of this. The Allies have virtually unlimited xAK, so I see no reason not to mass convert xAK to xAP
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Cribtop
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

Post by Cribtop »

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Somebody previously mentioned that this operation was a continuation of the plan I never got to implement vs. Q-Ball. The forumite that posted that has a long and good memory. The Allies had a massive invasion of Sumatra set for March of '43.

Ha Ha! That was me! I win the Interwebs!! [&o]

I would buy out the Indian Division. Now is very good. Even if they can't get to Malaya, a snap invasion of a poorly garrisoned Tavoy or Vicky Point could create utter chaos.

If you can seize the Nicobars (I think you planned to do this) and build them up they can help form an air bridge to Sabang in the event that KB can close your SLoCs.

Definitely cease secondary missions from the CVs and keep them around. A bloody exchange battle with KB now and John may be done.

Push hard in Malaya. Casualties are expected!
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Canoerebel
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

Post by Canoerebel »

This is an interesting discussion, so I took a little census. Current distribution of AP and xAP:

West Coast and Hawaii: 24
Oz and NZ: 2
Capetown and Aden: 4
India: 8 (all helping shuttle troops to Sumatra)
Sumatra: 59

Roughly 69% (67 of 97) of Allied troop transports are involved in this operation. A fair number of those in NoPac and Hawaii were involved in the Aluetians feint that ended about two weeks ago. The New Guinea feint didn't include any troop ships.

There is merit in the contention that the others could have been used for coinciding offensive operations, but there are serious limits. Most troops in West Coast and Hawaii are either support troops or restricted infantry. In Oz, where I do have probably two divisions worth of unrestricted fighting units, the transport capacity was stripped to handle the massive sealift to Sumatra. And with good reason - even using everything at hand, I had to leave behind roughly a division-worth of American infantry and a restricted Oz division that was in port and prepping, but I didn't buy it given the logistical problems. Finally, I always try to keep decent sea lift capacity spread around the map to handle unforeseen contingencies and opportunities.

On the flip side, I did have the foresight to congregate the transports, tankers, replenishment ships, and support ships so important to a mission like this one.

Not bad, I contend, for November 1942.
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
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Nemo121
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

Post by Nemo121 »

Ah, this is it...

70% of your sealift carries 5 divisions+ support in this invasion. The other 30% could be carrying 2 to 2.5 divs plus support somewhere else.

Different strokes for different folks. What really matters is you getting a bridgehead in Malaysia quickly ( and by this I mean in the next 2 to 3 days at worst ).
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crsutton
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

Post by crsutton »

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel


Sumatra at Sea: A few turns back, John unleashed a bunch of SSX (I bet he had been gathering these to hit the fleet at Akyab). Today, they sank an AR and damaged an AE and something else. Another sub sank DD Buchanan. (The Allies haven't lost anything larger than these in this operation thus far.) The fast USN BBs bombarded both Langsa and Sibolga without impressive results. Lots of the Bay of Bengal fleet will be reaching Sabang in the next two days. Carrier TF sorties range from 71% to 82%. So, that enters into things now - can I afford to fly ground missions? Do I consider withdrawing carriers to Colombo before the KB shows up, relying on LBA and escort carriers to lend a hand with ground operations.


It all comes down to if you think you can lose your carriers and still sustain the operation. If I were John, my focus would be on fighting your carriers as soon as possible. No matter what happens to his carriers, if yours are put out of action for a few months. I think he can throw you out of Sumatra due to the strength of his LBA.

I don't know about John but my thinking here as a Japanese player would be that I would have to defeat the Allies now or the whole jig is up. So, as the Allies I would act accordingly.

If you think you can trade carriers with John "and" stay in Sumatra, I think I would fight him now. But I don't really know how strong KB is. In scenario 2 stock at this stage of the war, KB was very strong.
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Canoerebel
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

Post by Canoerebel »

Yeah, I think John brings his carriers and combat ships for the decisive battle. I agree.

But no matter what happens, I doubt John is going to recapture Sumatra. The Allies are going to end up with 500 to 750 AV at Sabang including tanks and SWPac HQ. The Allies have already gone toe-to-toe with the IJ airforce for months in Burma and have held their own. Veteran pilots from that campaign will be flying the best fighters available - I think the P-40K can stand up to anything. At sea, I think Allied combat seapower should be roughly equal to Japan (which has at least four BBs down or out now). The carriers are a wild card. Don't know how that ends up. But my early guess is that the Allies have too much, with relatively short LOCs to Ceylon and Assam. Even if things go sour for the Allies it should be months before John could close the chapter on this operation. I don't intend to lose, of course, and the Allies have a big headstart on Fortress Sabang.
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
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Capt. Harlock
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

Post by Capt. Harlock »

John's gathering and moving forward his army. His blood lust is up.

Never mind blood lust -- John can read a map. Northern Sumatra in Allied hands is a knife aimed at the vital artery of the Japanese Empire.

Yes, this should be good theater indeed.
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

Post by Canoerebel »

If he can read a map, why was Sumatra and vicinity undefended? [:)]
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
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JohnDillworth
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

Post by JohnDillworth »

He will come with the fleet and he will come with LBA. He has more LBA. Every AAA unit that is not nailed down should be sent here. If you can pry it loose, it's not nailed down. It will take a while to distribute it to the right places, but it's still going to be along war
Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly
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Encircled
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

Post by Encircled »

Unlikely I know, but I wouldn't rule out the Gulf of Siam as a basing point for his carriers.

He must know that the IO is much better for your operations, and no-one in their right mind would use Straits of Malacca to conduct carrier operations in.

He'd been relying on LBA to challenge you in the IO, but it might make more sense than charging straight in.
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

Post by BBfanboy »

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

The final tough decision:

1600 PP in the bank. A big (and decent) Indian div. at Chittagong (with plenty of transports there) costs 1550. Worthwhile to buy and move to Sumatra? Decision must be made fast in hopes of getting there ahead of KB (even now it's unlikely). Better to commit the division to Burma (I don't think so). Better not to spend PP right now, instead building the bank for eventual use in the Pacific (okay, that's legit, but isn't Sumatra an "everything now, now, now!" priority?). I'm leaning towards making the buy, but I'm interested in opinions.
Buy the Indian division and send it immediately to Victoria Point. Follow up ASAP with the many small British/Indian/Burmese units as you can pull out of India and Burma without affecting the pressure there.
Malaya is a tender spot that cannot take much pressure at all. Per Nemo, cut the peninsula at Chumphon to deny him strat movement and supply, then salt those small units wherever you can get them to. Note that a lot of them are already assigned to ABDA or Burma Command or Eastern Command which are all unrestricted.
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

Post by Canoerebel »

That's not going to happen. I contend it's because doing so would be risky or impossible. Victoria Point is a fast-growing enemy aifields with lots of airfields in proximity. I can't get there without carriers. I'm not sending my carriers there. There are, however, other bases further down the coast that I'm exploring - landing tomorrow at Alor Star with landings on two islands. If anything promising develops, I'll follow up. Also, paratroops will be available in a couple of days (though that could be too late).

I bought the Indian division at Chittagong for 1500 PP, leaving me with 100 PP in the bank. I have lots of units going to Madras, but essentially all of them are restricted, so it's going to be a slow process to buy them out and feed them in. I have lots of unrestricted unit in Burma, but it would take months to get them to a port through roadless jungle, and they will serve an important purpose in Burma. One part of the Sumatra operation is to put pressure on John in Burma to weaken his defenses so that the Allies can advance, hopefully at least as far as Rangoon (once I get close, my bombers should be the decisive factor). That, in turn, permits supply to flow into China.

"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

Post by Canoerebel »

But here are some of the "fun" things taking place this next turn:

1. LCDR Lake will lead the CA Cornwall/CL Achilles TF on a patrol to Victoria Point, targeting a mass of shipping there. This is dangerous ground to get hung up in, but Lake has excellent statistics and this is war!
2. A three-DD TF under the command of an Aussie will patrol forward to Singapore. These three ships have some ammo depletion problems, but the objective is to let John know just how close Singers is to the front lines. :)
3. Part of 18th UK Div. and 762 Tanks will begin landing at Alor Start. Surely this base will be defended, but let's see what happens.
4. Part of 2nd Marine Raiders will land at Phuket, which I believe is undefended.
5. About 80 AV of 18th UK Div. is to storm the beaches of Langkowi, an island just off from Alor Star. I think the base is empty.

The latter two operations have good chances of success. If the Allies get solid lodgements, John has a major problem. He can only hope to retake them by amphibious assault. To get there, he has to either come up the Malacca Straits or come around Sabang. So these two bases may be much more meaningful than you'd think at first blush.
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

Post by artuitus_slith »

If I was John I'd be planning an assault on Ceylon, with troops to occupy it taken from those that will otherwise wilt and die in Burma. Lose Ceylon and the allies can't effectively supply or reinforce the troops in Sumatra. Of course this is easier said than done.
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

Post by Canoerebel »

How would John gets the ships to carry troops from Burma to Ceylon? How would they get from Burma to Ceylon?

John won't do that. He's going to shuttle troops from Burma to Thailand/Malaya. Whether that's the best thing to do is debatable, but I understand the thinking behind it. He's focused on the crisis territory. Anything beyond that (Burma, New Caledonia, etc.) is irrelevant right now. (Yes, Nemo, I realize irrelevant = opportunity).
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

Post by Canoerebel »

One change to my missions orders. The TF going to Singers will be three fresh Fletcher-class under the command of Arleigh Burke. These guys are going into harm's way - mines and such. If I get Burke killed on his first big mission of the war, don't laugh.
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

Post by JohnDillworth »

One change to my missions orders. The TF going to Singers will be three fresh Fletcher-class under the command of Arleigh Burke. These guys are going into harm's way - mines and such. If I get Burke killed on his first big mission of the war, don't laugh.
Raiding is a great idea right now. The geography here might lead to some hefty surface actions in the future. Task forces running up and down the straits at night....both ways. I think you proved that old BB's are not much good for night ops and you bagged a bunch of CA's but I would not be surprised if you see BC/CA task forces making a run at your fleet some evenings. I know this you are paying Burke to sink ships but maybe save him for the knife fights
Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

Post by Canoerebel »

I'd love to put Burke in command of a TF comprised of South Dakota and Washington, but he's got to prove first that he's made of the right stuff. (IE, I've already entered the orders and sent the turn to John, so it's too late to do anything except have doubts.)
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
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