The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

[jeffk3510]

Have you thought about heavily mining the Malacca Straits with subs? I might have missed this if you have mentioned it or someone else did.

[BBfanboy]

And now, a commercial interruption [i.e. hijack] ...

OK - I have been quiet about this for a long time but my fifth grade teacher drilled some things into me that will not be compromised.

Let's get it straight: a strait does not have the letters "gh" and it may or may not be straight!

And "dire straights" would be heterosexual people opposed to gay marriage, while "dire straits" are narrow and hazardous channels that must be navigated carefully to avoid disaster.

Is everybody straight on straits now? Good! We resume the regular program ...
[/hijack off].

[Canoerebel]

11/16/42 - Operation Des Wallace, D+6

Lots of small things happening today - no earth-shaking things - but the most encouraging thing was an item buried beneath the surface....

Sumatra and Malaya at Sea: This time the combat ships and minelayers go into Victoria Point. There isn't much there, but the Allies sink a DD, an xAK, and probably two big AMC. The minelayers do there work. No sign of enemy combat ships or carriers (yet). Japanese LBA sink a handful of xAK and one xAP operating naked on Sumatra's west coast and at the islands.

Sumatra and Malaya in the Air: Helens and Sallies hit Alor Star, indicating the priority John gives this base. Netties sortie from Port Blair against Quincy TF, but bleedover CAP from the carriers covers. About a dozen unescorted Avengers sortie from Sabang against one of the damaged AMC, but run into landbased CAP and get chewed up. The squadron retires to Colombo to regroup.

Sumatra and Malaya on the Ground: From most to least promising: Tanks evaporate what's left of Imperial Guards on the road near Sabang (about 50 AV gone), leaving just the sad remnants of 10th Garrison Unit to block the way to Langsa. Tanks shock attack at Alor Star while 18th UK (95% disrupted) rests; the attack fails, but the enemy is very weak. The attack at Sibolga fails, though the Japenese units are weaking (combined raw AV down below 40 now).

Malaya Tomorrow: At Alor Star, an Indian brigade and the tanks will shock attack while 18th UK deliberate attacks (it's really in bad shape, but has enough AV to offer something). Two BB TFs will bombard (I hope - it isn't far from Sabang, but ships have their own minds in this game). Three big Dakota sqadrons fresh in from Imphal will carry Marine paratroops (fresh in by fast transport) against Singora, across the peninsula from Alor Star. Recon shows that base held by just 220 mean (probably yet another airlift). There's a unit on the yellow road between Singora and Alor Star moving to reinforce the latter, so the Allies have to crack through very soon or the jig will be up.

Sumatra Tomorrow: Two bombardment TFs will hit Langsa. 1st Marines should be able to brush aside the remants of 10th Garrison on the road, thus permitting a general advance by land I think 37th Div., which is in pristine condition and 50% prepped for Langsa, will move by land. I think I'm going to amphibious load 27th Div. for an assault on Langsa by sea. Over at Sibolga, the troops simply have to rest for two to four days. They are out of gas with high disruption.

The Hidden Nugget: Sabang airfield went from 3.50 to 3.77 in a single day. So, the airfield will reach level four tomorrow and could reachlevel five in less than a week. This is most encouraging.

Burma: Allied 2EB continue to hammer two unprotected IJA divisions in the plains. The combat report shows both with seriously depleted raw AVs in the 150 to 200 range.

The Enemy: John seems to be concentrating on Benkolen (SW Sumatra) plus air transport to shore up Sumatra. No sign of a major push against upper Sumatra yet. With Victoria Point under interdiction by sea, John has a really tough job in getting troops from Rangoon into southern Malaya. If VP is closed, his only choices are air transport and crossing the peninsula through the jungle. That will take ages, so I suspect opening the LOC to VP might indeed become a huge priority.

[Canoerebel]

ORIGINAL: jeffk3510

Have you thought about heavily mining the Malacca Straits with subs? I might have missed this if you have mentioned it or someone else did.

Yes, but at the moment I'm not mining them because my combat ships transit - including the Arleigh Burke DD TF which will check out Tandjoen tonight.

I have a dozen minelayers - perhaps seven DMs - at Sabang. The Allies can lay mines in quantity when needed. Sabang has 375 mines (and two ACM). Victoria Point has been mined.

[Canoerebel]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

..Let's get it straight: a strait does not have the letters "gh" and it may or may not be straight!

I know. But in typing fast and often, I regularly use homonyms - "straights" for "straits," "their" for "there" etc. My bad.

[Canoerebel]

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

BTW, whats the plan in Burma? Is John packing up the plantation or just tightening his lines? Do you envision pushing to Rangoon and beyond or picking you folks up and using them elsewhere?

The Allies will push as hard in Burma as they possibly can, meaning all or most of the army in place will stay there. I finally have that two-front war that I've wanted. I realize Sumatra isn't that far from Burma, but for the past week the Allies have been able to go about business in Burma in a much different way than before. Japan's air presence is probably 33% of what it was pre D-Day. The Allied air presence is probably 75%. So the Allies will use Burma as one of the two fronts. And if John pulls back too far, Rangoon and Moulmein will come into play and China will reopen. I think that's going to happen medium term.

[artuitus_slith]

I still say option 5a invasion ofor at least neutralizing Ceylon (destroying port and shipyard) would be his best option. Could you really break his combined carrier air? Normally I'd say no, but then again John has gotten the KB chewed up a few times already so anything is possible. Otherwise option 3 is by far the most obvious choice, though there is a lot of merit in what Nemo says.

Real question is, if he comes through door number 3 what is he going to find? Are you going to stand and fight with your CVs and LBA or try and get it done with just LBA? Maybe you can fly your strike planes off the decks to Sabang? You should still be able to extract them if it all goes to hell, and have a nasty little surprise for John (facing Carrier air with no Carriers to sink).

How are your mine stockpiles looking, in particular sub laid mines? Could you mine the straights pretty heavily (more effective than your torpedoes at this stage of the war)? Say from Singapore north to Kuala Lumpur? Even if you only sank an xAKL or something else small, the presence of mines will almost certainly force him to use option number 3, to avoid sending KB through a minefield (probably the worst nightmare for JFB, losing a portion of KB to mines. A little late now, but it would have been great to have those Dutch mine-layer subs mine Mereck (sp? the base on the northern tip of Java) and the hex to the west.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I don't know. I just don't see John III coming up the Malacca Straits with carriers. Like many (not all) players, he seems to have an enhanced fear of subs, to the point that I've often seen him avoid going the straight way when he knows they're around. And I do think the Straits are bad news - currently, there are at least 20 subs there. John will know or guess that. With a big Allied airfield, minelayers (he's seen them) and lots of combat ships hanging around Sabang...well, I just don't see it. Not from John III. He will want sea room - room to maneuver - and I think many players would viscerally - or at least subconciously - feel the same.

So, you guys may be right, but my money is on the IO. If he comes through the Straits, though, I'll be glad, because I think that offers the strongest combination of factors for the Allies.

I think Nemo too easily tosses off the sub threat. (Of course I'm going to say that.) The M. Strait is not open ocean. IJN ASW in 1942 is poor. IF you have subs there with working torpedoes the KB is at serious risk in the two good 1-hex choke points in the transit. Saying hitting them would be "attritional" is good jargon, but it means "they go away." Would some subs target ASW TFs? Of course. But 20 subs? You only have to get lucky once or twice to shift the carrier balance.

Read my AAR for a case where the M. Strait let the Allies get lucky in 1942 at the cost of an IJN carrier.

[Olorin]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

And now, a commercial interruption [i.e. hijack] ...

OK - I have been quiet about this for a long time but my fifth grade teacher drilled some things into me that will not be compromised.

Let's get it straight: a strait does not have the letters "gh" and it may or may not be straight!

And "dire straights" would be heterosexual people opposed to gay marriage, while "dire straits" are narrow and hazardous channels that must be navigated carefully to avoid disaster.

Is everybody straight on straits now? Good! We resume the regular program ...
[/hijack off].

Guilty as charged! For some of us english is not our native language [;)]

[jeffk3510]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

ORIGINAL: jeffk3510

Have you thought about heavily mining the Malacca Straits with subs? I might have missed this if you have mentioned it or someone else did.

Yes, but at the moment I'm not mining them because my combat ships transit - including the Arleigh Burke DD TF which will check out Tandjoen tonight.

I have a dozen minelayers - perhaps seven DMs - at Sabang. The Allies can lay mines in quantity when needed. Sabang has 375 mines (and two ACM). Victoria Point has been mined.

I figured you had.

[Canoerebel]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

...IF you have subs there with working torpedoes the KB is at serious risk in the two good 1-hex choke points in the transit. ...

The Allies have roughly 20 subs operating in the straits (and more on the way, and all of them are now based out of Sabang). The subs are of four kinds - Dutch, British, S-Boat, and USN fleet. That means alot of the torps work.

I haven't done any sub minelaying in the game to speak of (just a little bit in NoPac and Home Islands months ago), so stockpiles are repleat. I think conventional mine stores are running low, because I laid 23 gazillion at Ramree, Akyab, Chittagong and now Sabang.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

..Let's get it straight: a strait does not have the letters "gh" and it may or may not be straight!

I know. But in typing fast and often, I regularly use homonyms - "straights" for "straits," "their" for "there" etc. My bad.

I ken! Not a shot at you when I wrote that, but the general population of the forum, 50% of whom use the word with the GH. I always wonder how someone trying to learn this crazy language ever sorts out the homonyms and words with multiple meanings!
When people write thing like "loose" for "lose" [e.g. I loose two DDs ...] and the foreigner looks it up he concludes that the writer sent two DDs free from whatever mission they had previously!

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I don't know. I just don't see John III coming up the Malacca Straits with carriers. Like many (not all) players, he seems to have an enhanced fear of subs, to the point that I've often seen him avoid going the straight way when he knows they're around. And I do think the Straits are bad news - currently, there are at least 20 subs there. John will know or guess that. With a big Allied airfield, minelayers (he's seen them) and lots of combat ships hanging around Sabang...well, I just don't see it. Not from John III. He will want sea room - room to maneuver - and I think many players would viscerally - or at least subconciously - feel the same.

So, you guys may be right, but my money is on the IO. If he comes through the Straits, though, I'll be glad, because I think that offers the strongest combination of factors for the Allies.

I think Nemo too easily tosses off the sub threat. (Of course I'm going to say that.) The M. Strait is not open ocean. IJN ASW in 1942 is poor. IF you have subs there with working torpedoes the KB is at serious risk in the two good 1-hex choke points in the transit. Saying hitting them would be "attritional" is good jargon, but it means "they go away." Would some subs target ASW TFs? Of course. But 20 subs? You only have to get lucky once or twice to shift the carrier balance.

Read my AAR for a case where the M. Strait let the Allies get lucky in 1942 at the cost of an IJN carrier.

While my sort of careful style agrees with your caution about subs in the strait, Nemo is a "big picture" kind of guy who is more than willing to sacrifice ships [even carriers] and troops and aircraft to reach a favourable strategic position. Once he has that, he does not need much strength to smash the enemy "strategic depth".

I am nowhere near close to being able to envision such a big picture of how things will look if I risk A,B and C at the same time, so I would do what Canoerebel is doing and see how things look from there. I doubt John III is thinking of strategic position right now with his "operational depth" compromised and his "strategic depth" in peril. I.E. he will not risk his carriers in the straits. I think Nemo is just pointing out possibilities for the bold, calculating player.

[JohnDillworth]

And now, a commercial interruption [i.e. hijack] ...

OK - I have been quiet about this for a long time but my fifth grade teacher drilled some things into me that will not be compromised.

Let's get it straight: a strait does not have the letters "gh" and it may or may not be straight!

And "dire straights" would be heterosexual people opposed to gay marriage, while "dire straits" are narrow and hazardous channels that must be navigated carefully to avoid disaster.

Is everybody straight on straits now? Good! We resume the regular program ...
[/hijack off].

I had GreyJoy check my spelling and he said it was fine[:)]

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

...IF you have subs there with working torpedoes the KB is at serious risk in the two good 1-hex choke points in the transit. ...

The Allies have roughly 20 subs operating in the straits (and more on the way, and all of them are now based out of Sabang). The subs are of four kinds - Dutch, British, S-Boat, and USN fleet. That means alot of the torps work.

I haven't done any sub minelaying in the game to speak of (just a little bit in NoPac and Home Islands months ago), so stockpiles are repleat. I think conventional mine stores are running low, because I laid 23 gazillion at Ramree, Akyab, Chittagong and now Sabang.

I laid up to four sub-laid fields in the M. Strait earlier in our game. They last as long as they're supposed to in shallow water. They might help.

Re the KB's route. Of the options you laid out I think Gulf of Siam is safe but mostly useless for anything but extreme range ops right over Sabang. If he wants to use it in the Bay of B. or IO the M. Strait is by far the worse of the two routes out. The Sunda is under local LBA and is a 1-day transit to blue water. It's sub-dangerous too, but it's short. In the Cold War, believe me, NATO studied both pieces of geography for a Red Fleet sortie from the base at Cam Ranh Bay. I saw some of the response plans. The M. Strait is a nightmare for the transiting party and a defender's dream.

But it's an "if" he wants or needs the KB out in open water. That has big cons too. Damage and logistics. If he pushes the carriers out it makes everything in the region a high pucker factor for you. But if all he wants is a huge DB/TB hammer on the west coast he could off-load the air wings to PBang, Oosthaven, and Benkeolen (sp?) and park the hulls at CRB or Manila.

[Canoerebel]

ORIGINAL: gmoney

I still say option 5a invasion ofor at least neutralizing Ceylon (destroying port and shipyard) would be his best option. Could you really break his combined carrier air? ...

Nooooooo waaaaayyyyyyy John does this. He has no idea how strongly held Ceylon is. Colombo is a level nine airfield with 190 fighters at the moment...and all the fighters and bombers at Sabang and on my carriers are one day out...and all the fighters and bombers in Assam are one or two days out. Ceylon = Suicide under these circumstances.

[Encircled]

Its by far the safest option, but it would make it very hard for CR to supply his Malaysian troops.

Japanese LBA strength in S.Sumatra and S. Malaysia would more than compensate, and engage CR in a battle of attrition for air frames that he's going to struggle to win.

Once the Allied LBA has been savaged, then the KB + Japanese LBA can isolate Sumatra at will.

Time is on CR's side, but John has a window to do this if he's clever, calm and quick

[Canoerebel]

How is John going to savage Allied LBA? We've been fighting tooth-and-nail at close range in Burma for something like five months now, with John employing a majority of his fighteres, and he couldn't do it. I don't have the network of bases up and running yet (I probably will eventually), but neither does he. He can bring the KB, but my carriers are available. And I can swap planes in and out from Ceylon and Assam. I could be wrong, but I don't foresee John winning an air campaign unless he first wins a carrier battle that allows him to isolate Sabang and then pound it with BBs.

[Encircled]

I'm assuming that he's got good airbases (well, better than good to be honest) in South Malaysia and South Sumatra.

You haven't (yet)

I might well be wrong, and he's completely not done anything around there, but he should be able to have some advantage for at least a couple of months.

I think he's just hastening his doom if he wanders the KB up the West coast of Sumatra

[JohnDillworth]

How is John going to savage Allied LBA? We've been fighting tooth-and-nail at close range in Burma for something like five months now, with John employing a majority of his fighteres, and he couldn't do it.

His LBA may have been all over the map because he didn't know where you were going to pop up. He now knows where you are and you are now a concentrated , massive threat. He can strip out tons of stuff and send it here. Not sure what the aircraft situation is in this mod....but he has more than you. Lots more than you