I've been looking through a copy of Loyalty and Honour, Part II Brigades. A little knowledge, so they say, is a dangerous thing. And I now have a little knowledge on the Jammu and Kashmir ISF. So here we go with the (hopefully not too stupid) questions:
Niehorster indicates that, as of 1939, the Jammu and Kashmir State Forces contained 7 Infantry battalions, a Cavalry battalion, a training battalion, 2 Mountain Artillery Companies, and some supporting units, organized into two Brigades. These were the Jammu Brigade and the Kashmir Brigade. Neither of these forces are the standard AE OOB. Loyalty and Honour does not mention either of these Brigades but does have some of the Jammu and Kashmir Infantry Battalions assigned to other Brigades. 1st, 2nd, 4th, 7th and 9th are so listed. Only 7 were listed in 1939, but the 8th might be the training brigade. The 9th was probably raised during the war??
It would appear at first assumption that 3 Infantry (3rd, 5th, 6th) battalions, a training battalion and a cavalry battalion remained in Jammu/Kashmir. Since the Kashmir Brigade was located at Srinagar in 1939, I am tempted to place a reinforced Brigade there in AE. Named the Kashmir Brigade, with 3 Infantry and 1 Cavalry battalions.
Also, Loyalty and Honour lists another Brigade in Waziristan. This is the Wana Brigade, which was probably/possibly used as a training brigade. Lots of battalions moving in and out for the entire war. Probably should be excluded but the OOB fanatic in me keeps wanting to put it in somehow.
Anyone have any information or thoughts on all of this.
Jammu and Kashmir Brigades
Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition
RE: Jammu and Kashmir Brigades
That was one of my primary sources Don and I would not recommend adding the Bde in
You need to remember that the British Army rotates bdes around a lot and sent bns to rest on the frontier after they were mauled on other fronts.
Also a lot of the best ISF force Bns were used as LOC troops and in the ME under 10th Army.
In AE you get
18 Indian base forces each including an attached Coy of ISF/Nepalese infantry
About 10 RAF/RN Base forces each with an artached Coy of Infantry
So about 9 Bns equivalent
On map you get as seperate units
10 Inf Bns
2 Cav Regts
PLUS you get 8 Inf and 3 Cav Regts attached to major Forts
So 27 Inf Bns and 5 Cav Regts BEFORE we look at the 6 Bdes on mapeach of which has 3 Inf Bns and 1 Cav Regt
Add it all up and thats a lot of force
The full Waziristan Div is off map as an invasion reinforcement to come on map if the Japanese get deep.
IMO the ISF and Nepalese Army are ok as they are - I spent a long time modelling this (its why I was originally recruited for the AE team just to do the Indian ORBAT !!!)
Later in 43/44 some of these Bns disband as they rotated into the 14th Army Divs when they increased in TOE to a 10 Bn standard by including an HQ security Bn and disbanding them was the best way of showing that transitions
I lost a lot of my notes in my last computer meltdown but I will see if i can find them.
Andy
You need to remember that the British Army rotates bdes around a lot and sent bns to rest on the frontier after they were mauled on other fronts.
Also a lot of the best ISF force Bns were used as LOC troops and in the ME under 10th Army.
In AE you get
18 Indian base forces each including an attached Coy of ISF/Nepalese infantry
About 10 RAF/RN Base forces each with an artached Coy of Infantry
So about 9 Bns equivalent
On map you get as seperate units
10 Inf Bns
2 Cav Regts
PLUS you get 8 Inf and 3 Cav Regts attached to major Forts
So 27 Inf Bns and 5 Cav Regts BEFORE we look at the 6 Bdes on mapeach of which has 3 Inf Bns and 1 Cav Regt
Add it all up and thats a lot of force
The full Waziristan Div is off map as an invasion reinforcement to come on map if the Japanese get deep.
IMO the ISF and Nepalese Army are ok as they are - I spent a long time modelling this (its why I was originally recruited for the AE team just to do the Indian ORBAT !!!)
Later in 43/44 some of these Bns disband as they rotated into the 14th Army Divs when they increased in TOE to a 10 Bn standard by including an HQ security Bn and disbanding them was the best way of showing that transitions
I lost a lot of my notes in my last computer meltdown but I will see if i can find them.
Andy
RE: Jammu and Kashmir Brigades
Jammu and Kashmir Regt
The only forces sent to serve with the British and Indian Army as Bns were
1st Bn served with Bannu Bde for 6 months pre 42
2nd Bn served with various frontier Bdes all war before moving to Persia to serve with 6th Indian Div
3rd Bn Never served as a Bn or Bde for the BI Army
4th Bn various frontier Bdes before joining 7th Indian Div as an HQ security Bn on front lines
5th Bn never served as a Bn with the BI Army
6th Bn never served as a Bn with the BI Army
7th and 9th Bn Served with various Frotier Bdes
8th Bn never served with BI Army
So of 9 Inf Bns
1st/3rd/5th/6th and 8th Never served with the British Army but did provide Company and platoon sized detachments on occasion - I choose to represent these as part of base forces
2nd served until 44 on the frontier before moving to Persia
4th, 7th and 9th served all war seconded to BI Army but of these only 4th Bn joined a fighting Div in Assam/Burma
The only forces sent to serve with the British and Indian Army as Bns were
1st Bn served with Bannu Bde for 6 months pre 42
2nd Bn served with various frontier Bdes all war before moving to Persia to serve with 6th Indian Div
3rd Bn Never served as a Bn or Bde for the BI Army
4th Bn various frontier Bdes before joining 7th Indian Div as an HQ security Bn on front lines
5th Bn never served as a Bn with the BI Army
6th Bn never served as a Bn with the BI Army
7th and 9th Bn Served with various Frotier Bdes
8th Bn never served with BI Army
So of 9 Inf Bns
1st/3rd/5th/6th and 8th Never served with the British Army but did provide Company and platoon sized detachments on occasion - I choose to represent these as part of base forces
2nd served until 44 on the frontier before moving to Persia
4th, 7th and 9th served all war seconded to BI Army but of these only 4th Bn joined a fighting Div in Assam/Burma
RE: Jammu and Kashmir Brigades
ps vol 3 of Loyalty and Honour has more detail
RE: Jammu and Kashmir Brigades
pps a total of 47 ISF and 8 nepalese Bns/Regts served with the British Army at some stage but not all in India a number served in Persia/Iraq/Palestine and even in Egypt or East Africa
RE: Jammu and Kashmir Brigades
Thanks Andy
I only have Part II and am loath to buy any additional. Especially from Military Press which has very inconvenient payment arrangements for us on this side of the Atlantic. Plus I'm mad at them for not following through on the J.J. Hays series on US Army TOE. I was really looking forward to Volumes 9 and 10.
I'll depend on your expertise and take your advice on the J & K units. You know me, I get caught up in the OOB or fleet list and go crazy. Besides, an extra brigade up these would be pretty much useless.
Don
-
Kereguelen
- Posts: 1474
- Joined: Wed May 12, 2004 9:08 pm
RE: Jammu and Kashmir Brigades
ORIGINAL: Don Bowen
I've been looking through a copy of Loyalty and Honour, Part II Brigades. A little knowledge, so they say, is a dangerous thing. And I now have a little knowledge on the Jammu and Kashmir ISF. So here we go with the (hopefully not too stupid) questions:
Niehorster indicates that, as of 1939, the Jammu and Kashmir State Forces contained 7 Infantry battalions, a Cavalry battalion, a training battalion, 2 Mountain Artillery Companies, and some supporting units, organized into two Brigades. These were the Jammu Brigade and the Kashmir Brigade. Neither of these forces are the standard AE OOB. Loyalty and Honour does not mention either of these Brigades but does have some of the Jammu and Kashmir Infantry Battalions assigned to other Brigades. 1st, 2nd, 4th, 7th and 9th are so listed. Only 7 were listed in 1939, but the 8th might be the training brigade. The 9th was probably raised during the war??
It would appear at first assumption that 3 Infantry (3rd, 5th, 6th) battalions, a training battalion and a cavalry battalion remained in Jammu/Kashmir. Since the Kashmir Brigade was located at Srinagar in 1939, I am tempted to place a reinforced Brigade there in AE. Named the Kashmir Brigade, with 3 Infantry and 1 Cavalry battalions.
Also, Loyalty and Honour lists another Brigade in Waziristan. This is the Wana Brigade, which was probably/possibly used as a training brigade. Lots of battalions moving in and out for the entire war. Probably should be excluded but the OOB fanatic in me keeps wanting to put it in somehow.
Anyone have any information or thoughts on all of this.
Some additions to the information already posted by Andy:
8th Bn J&K Infantry was formed in 1940, probably as a replacement for the battalions that had left. It was a regular battalion. The J&K army did not have a training battalion, training was conducted at the depot.
No information about the time 9th J&K was formed. But considering that it was send abroad in August 1942 it is probably safe to assume that it was formed before December 1941 (together with 8th J&K or in the summer of 1941).
1st J&K served at the frontier only for a short time and returned to State Service then.
Wana Brigade was no training brigade (you already stated that it was stationed in Waziristan; troops employed there did not drink tea with the Pathans). Nevertheless, to some extend, all brigades stationed in the Tribal Areas were used for training. But in this case it means 'training' under realistic combat conditions. Neither the Pathans nor the Indian Army bothered to take prisoners, btw.
RE: Jammu and Kashmir Brigades
Does not seem to be brigades (in combat sense) to me. Sending separate battalions to front lines? No way in Commonwealth army.
It looks like Depot Brigades (this was abandoned before WWI, but who knows system used in India, how was it made with Ghurkas?). Andy mentions Regiments, and Regiment in UK nomenclature is administrative unit, which takes care of training reserves from territory (and sending whole locally trained Brigades for Divisions).
But in case of invasion, it would probably muster its training men, and despite names of battalions, I would guess they had much more men, than standard combat battalion (12SS had at Arnhem training battalion of more, than 2200 men)
It looks like Depot Brigades (this was abandoned before WWI, but who knows system used in India, how was it made with Ghurkas?). Andy mentions Regiments, and Regiment in UK nomenclature is administrative unit, which takes care of training reserves from territory (and sending whole locally trained Brigades for Divisions).
But in case of invasion, it would probably muster its training men, and despite names of battalions, I would guess they had much more men, than standard combat battalion (12SS had at Arnhem training battalion of more, than 2200 men)
-
Kereguelen
- Posts: 1474
- Joined: Wed May 12, 2004 9:08 pm
RE: Jammu and Kashmir Brigades
ORIGINAL: inqistor
Does not seem to be brigades (in combat sense) to me. Sending separate battalions to front lines? No way in Commonwealth army.
It looks like Depot Brigades (this was abandoned before WWI, but who knows system used in India, how was it made with Ghurkas?). Andy mentions Regiments, and Regiment in UK nomenclature is administrative unit, which takes care of training reserves from territory (and sending whole locally trained Brigades for Divisions).
But in case of invasion, it would probably muster its training men, and despite names of battalions, I would guess they had much more men, than standard combat battalion (12SS had at Arnhem training battalion of more, than 2200 men)
Wrong in every way.
RE: Jammu and Kashmir Brigades
Jammu and Kashmir Brigades are not in the British or British Indian Army the two Bdes are Bdes of the local Maharajah
When war was declared individual Bns and Companies were seconded to the British Indian Army where they either served as LOC troops independent of a Bde as garrison companies
Joined one of the Frontier Bdes on NW frontier
OR served with regular British Indian Army Bdes as round out Bns
The point is these are NOT Bdes that were under CW control
Below is a partial list the quality varied a LOT and the best equipped and most co operative did serve with the British Indian Army.
ps even this list excludes the 8 Regts or Nepalese troops whoe served in a similar role
Alirajpur State Forces: Bombay District - Alirajpur, Central India Agency
Headquarters
Alirajpur Pratap Infantry: Alirajpur
Alwar State Forces: Delhi Independent Brigade area - Alwar, Jaipur Residency, Rajputana Agency
Headquarters
Alwar Mangal Lancers: Alwar
Alwar Jey Paltan: Alwar
Alwar Pratap Paltan: Alwar
Bahawalpar State Forces: Lahore District - Bahawalpur, Punjab States
Headquarters
His Highness the Nawab of Bahawalpar's Own Bodyguard Lancers: Sadiq Garh Palace, Dera Nawab Sahib
1st Bahawalpar Infantry (Sadiq Battalion) : Sadiq Garh Palace, Dera Nawab Sahib
2nd Bahawalpar Light Infantry (Huron Battalion) : Sadiq Garh Palace, Dera Nawab Sadib
Baria State Forces: Bombay District - Baria, Gujarat Agency
Headquarters
Baria Ranjit Infantry: Devgadh Baria
Baria Subhag Risala: Devgadh Baria
Baria State Band: Devgadh Baria
Baroda State Forces: Bombay District - Baroda, Gujarat Agency
Headquarters
2nd Baroda Lancers: Baroda
1st Baroda Infantry: Baroda
2nd Baroda Infantry: Baroda
Benares State Forces: Lucknow District - Benares, Central India Agency
1st Benares (Prabhu Narain's Own) Battalion: Ramnagar, Benares
2nd Benares Cavalry Troop: Ramnagar, Benares
Bharatpur State Forces: Dehli Independent Brigade Area - Bharatpur, Eastern Rajputana States, Rajputana Agency
Headquaters
Bharatpur Bodyguard Cavalry: Bharatpur
Bharatpur Jaswant Household Infantry: Bharatpur, Kanjoli Lines
Jaswant Garrison Company: Bharatpur Fort
Bhavnagar State Forces: Bombay District - Bhavnagar, Salute State, Western Indian Agency
Bhavnagar Lancers: Bhavnagar
Bhavnagar Infantry: Bhavnagar
Bhopal State Forces: Bombay District - Bhopal, Central India Agency
Headquarters
Bhopal Sultania Infantry: Bhopal
Bhopal Gohar-i-Taj Own Training Company: Bhopal
Bikanir State Forces: Sind Brigade Area - Bikinir, Rajputana Agency
Headquarters
Bikaner Bijey Battery: Bikanir
Bikaner Motor Machine-Gun Sections: Bikanir
Bikaner Dungar Lancers (included His Highness' Bodyguard) : Bikanir
Bikaner Ganga Risala: Bikanir
Bikaner Sadul Light Infantry: Bikanir
Bikaner State Band: Bikanir
Chamba State Forces: Lahore District - Chamba, Punjab States
Chamba Bodyguard: Chamba
Chamba Infantry: Chamba
Datia State Forces: Meerut District - Datia, Central India Agency
Datia 1st Govind Infantry: Datia
'B' Company (Training), Datia Govind Infantry: Datia
Dhar State Forces: Bombay District - Dhar, Central India Agency
Dhar (Maharaj Kumari Kamla Rajes's Own) Light Horse: Dhar
Dhar Intantry (Maharaja Annard Raco's Own Laxmi Guards): Dhar
Dholpur State Forces: Delhi Independent Brigade Area - Dholpur, Eastern Rajputana States, Rajputana Agency
Dholpur Narsingh Infantry: Dholpur
Dhrangadhra State Forces: Bombay District- Dhrangadhra, Gujarat Agency
Dhrangadhra State (Maharaja's Own) Bodyguard: Dhrangadhra
Dhrangadhra Makhwan Infantry: Dhrangadhra
Faridkot State Forces: Lahore District - Faridkot, Punjab States
Headquarters
Faridkot His Highness' Body Guard: Faridkot
Faridkot Sappers and Miners: Faridkot
Faridkot Sappers and Miners Depot and Reserve: Faridkot
Faridkot Band: Faridkot
Gwalior State Forces: Meerut District - Gwalior
Headquarters
Gwalior Cavalry Brigade
1st Gwalior Jayaji Lancers: Guna Cantt.
2nd Alijah Gwalior Lancers: Thatipur
3rd Maharaja Madho Rao Scindia's Own Lancers: Morar
'B' Battery, Gwalior Horse Artillery: Morar
Gwalior Infantry Brigade
1st Gwalior Maharani Sakhya Raja's Own Battalion (Jaya Bahadur Battalion): Lashkar Kampoo
2nd Gwalior Maharaja Jajaji Rao's Battalion: Lashkar Kampoo
3rd Gwalior Maharaja Scindia's Own Battalion: Morar
4th Maharaja Bahadur's Own Battalion: Morar
7th Gwalior Scindia's Battalion (Training): Morar
Gwalior Mountain Battery: Morar
Hyderabad State Forces: His Exalted Highness the Nizam's Regular Forces: Deccan District - Hyderabad
Headquarters
1st (Nizam's Own) Hyderabad Imperial Service Lancers: Asufnagar
2nd (Nizam's Own) Hyderbad Imperial Service Lancers: Golconda. Chawan Muhamundi
3rd Hyderabad (Nizam's Own) Golconda Lancers: Golconda Fort
Hyderabad Cavalry Training Squadron: Asafnagar
'A' Battery, Hyderabad Horse Artillery: Mullapalli
1st Hyderabad Infantry: Goshamahal
2nd Hyderabad Infantry: Chandraingutta
3rd Hyderabad Infantry (Nizam's Own): Saifabad
Hyderabad Infantry Training Company: Nampally, Saifabad
Idar State Forces: Bombay District - Idar, Salute State, Western India Agency
Headquarters
Idar Sir Pratap Infantry: Himatnagar
Indore State Forces: Bombay District- Indore, Central India Agency
Headquarters
Indore Holkar's Mounted Escort: Indore
Indore 1st Battalion Maharaja Holkar's Infantry: Indore
(Companies A and B Mahesh Guards)
Jaipur State Forces: Delhi Independent Brigade Area - Jaipur Residency, Rajputana Agency
Headquarters
Kachhawa Horse: Jaipur
Sawai Man Guards: Bhagwant Dass Barracks, Jaipur
1st Battalion, Jaipur Infantry: Jaipur
2nd Battalion, Jaipur Infantry: Jaipur
Jammu and Kashmir State Forces: Rawalpindi District - Jammu and Kashmir
Headquarters
Jammu amd Kashmir Fort Guards: 7 Forts
Jammu Brigade
1st, 2nd Jammu and Kashmir Mountain Batteries
5th Squadron, Jammu and Kashmir Bodyguard Cavalry: Jammu Cantt.
1st Jammu and Kashmir Infantry (Raguprartap Regiment) : Jammu Cantt.
2nd Jammu and Kashmir Rifles (Bodyguard Regiment): Jammu Cantt.
6th, 7th Jammu and Kashmir Infantry: Jammu Cantt.
Jammu and Kashmir Infantry Training Battalion: Jammu Cantt.
Jammu and Kashmir Military Transport Corps: Jammu Cantt.
Jammu and Kashmir Army Training School: Jammu Cantt.
Kashmir Brigade
Jammu and Kashmir Bodyguard Cavalry: Srinagar (Summer) (Jammu Cantt. Winter)
3rd Jammu and Kashmir Rifles (Ragunath Regiment) : Manouver Area, Mirput District
4th Jammu and Kashmir (Fateh Shibji) Infantry: Srinagar
5th Jammu and Kashmir Light Infantry (The Suraj Gurkha Rifle Regiment): Srinagar
Jind State Forces: Lahore District - Jind, Punjab States
Jind Bodyguard Cavalry: Sangrur
Jind Infantry: Sangrur
Jind (2nd Line) Infantry: Sangrur
Jodhpur State Forces: Bombay District
Headquarters
Jodhpur Sarda Rissala: Jodhpur
Jodhpar Training Squadron: Jodhpur
Jodhpur Sardar Infantry: Jodhpur
Jodhpur State Military Band: Jodhpur
Junagadh State Forces: Bombay District - Junagadh, Salute State, Western India Agency
Janagadh Lancers: Janagadh
Junagadh Mahabatkhanji Infantry: Junagadh
Kapurthala State Forces: Lahore District - Kapurthala, Punjab States
Kapurthala Bodyguard : Kapurthala
Kapurthala Jagatjit Infantry: Kapurthala
Kapurthala Paramjit Infantry: Kapurthala
Kotah State Forces: Delhi Independent Brigade Area - Kotah, Eastern Rajputana States, Raputana Agency
1st Umed Infantry: Kotah
Kutch State Forces: Bombay District - Kutch, Western India Agency
Kutch (His Highness') Bodyguard: Bhuj
Kutch State Infantry: Bhuj
Malerkotla State Forces: Lahore District - Malerkotla, Punjab States
Headquarters
Malerkotla Bodyguard: Malerkotla
Malerkotla Sappers and Miners: Malerkotla
Mandi State Forces: Lahore District - Mandi, Punjab Hill States, Punjab States
Headquarters
Mandi-Joginder Sappers and Miners: Mandi
Mandi Palace Guard: Mandi
Mewar State Forces: Bombay District - Mewar, Mewar and Southern Rajputana States, Rajputana Agency
Mewar Lancers: Udiapur
Mewar Bhupal Infantry: Udiapur
Mewar Sajjan Infantry: Udiapur
Mewar Bhupal Training Company: Udiapur
Mudhol States Forces: Deccan District - Mudhol, Kholapur and Deccan Agency
Sajjan Singh Infantry: Mudhol
Mysore State Forces: Madras District -Mysore
Mysore Lancers: Bangalore
Mysore Horse (Training Squadron) : Mysore
1st Battalion, Mysore Infantry: Bangalore
2nd Battalion (Training Company), Mysore Infantry: Bangalore
3rd Battalion, Mysore Infantry: Mysore with detachments at Shimoga
Mysore Band: Bangalore
Nabha State Forces: Lahore District - Nabha, NW Railway
Nabha Akal Infantry: Nabha
Navanagar State Forces: Bombay District - Navanagar, Western India Agency
Navanagar State Lancers: Jamnagar
Navanagar State Infantry: Jamnagar
Palanpur State Forces: Bombay District - Palanpur, Western India Agency
Palanpur Iqbal Infantry: Palanpur
Panna State Forces: Meerut District - Panna, Central India Agency
Panna Chhatrasal Infantry: Panna
Patiala State Forces: Lahore District - Patiala, Punjab States
Headquarters
lst Patiala (Rajindra) Lancers: Patiala
2nd Patiala Lancers: Patiala
1st Patiala Infantry (Rajindra Sikhs): Patiala
2nd Patiala Yadavindra Infantry: Patiala
3rd Patiala Infantry: Patiala
4th Patiala Infantry: Patiala
Porbandar State Forces: Bombay District - Porbandar, Western India Agency
Porbandar Bodyguard Cavalry: Porbandar
Porbandar Infantry: Porbandar
Rajpipla State Forces: Bombay District - Rajpipla, Gujarat Agency
Headquarters
Rajpipla Bodyguard Cavalry: Rajpipla
Rajpipla Infantry: Rajpipla
Rampur State Forces: Meerut District - Rampur, Punjab States
Headquaners
Rampur (Rohilla) Lancers: Rampur
1st Rampur (Raza) Infrntry: Rampur
2nd Rampur (Murtaza) Infantry: Rampur
Ratlam State Forces: Bombay District - Ratlam, Central India Agency
Ratlam Lokendra Rifles: Ratlam
Rewa State Forces: Meerut District - Rewa, Central India Agency
Headquarters
Rewa Venkat Battalion: Rewa
Sirmoor State Forces: Lahore District - Sirmoor, Punjab Hill States, Punjab States
Headquarters
His Highness of Sirmoor's Bodyguard: Nahan
Sirmoor Sappers and Miners: Nahan
Sirmoor State Band: Nahan
Suket State Forces: Lahore District - Suket, Punjab Hill States, Punjab States
Headquarters
Suket Lakshman Cavalry: Sundarnagar
Suket Lakshman Infantry: Sundarnagar
Suket Band: Sundarnagar
Tehri-Garhwal State Forces: Meerut District - Tehri-Garhwal, Punjab Hill States, Punjab States
Headquarters
Tehri-Garhwal Sappers and Miners: Tehri (Garhwal)
Narendra Pioneers: Tehri (Garhwal)
Tehri Infantry and Band: Tehri (Garhwal)
Tranvancore State Forces: Madras District, Madras States
Headquarters
His Highness the Maharaja's Body Guard: Trivandrum
1st Tranvancore Nayar Infantry: Trivandrum
2nd Tranvancore Nayar Infantry: Trivandrum
3rd Tranvancore Nayar Infantry: Trivandrum
Tripura State Forces: Presidency and Assam District - Tripura, Eastern States Agecny
Tripura (Bir Bikram) Manikya Rifles: Agartala
When war was declared individual Bns and Companies were seconded to the British Indian Army where they either served as LOC troops independent of a Bde as garrison companies
Joined one of the Frontier Bdes on NW frontier
OR served with regular British Indian Army Bdes as round out Bns
The point is these are NOT Bdes that were under CW control
Below is a partial list the quality varied a LOT and the best equipped and most co operative did serve with the British Indian Army.
ps even this list excludes the 8 Regts or Nepalese troops whoe served in a similar role
Alirajpur State Forces: Bombay District - Alirajpur, Central India Agency
Headquarters
Alirajpur Pratap Infantry: Alirajpur
Alwar State Forces: Delhi Independent Brigade area - Alwar, Jaipur Residency, Rajputana Agency
Headquarters
Alwar Mangal Lancers: Alwar
Alwar Jey Paltan: Alwar
Alwar Pratap Paltan: Alwar
Bahawalpar State Forces: Lahore District - Bahawalpur, Punjab States
Headquarters
His Highness the Nawab of Bahawalpar's Own Bodyguard Lancers: Sadiq Garh Palace, Dera Nawab Sahib
1st Bahawalpar Infantry (Sadiq Battalion) : Sadiq Garh Palace, Dera Nawab Sahib
2nd Bahawalpar Light Infantry (Huron Battalion) : Sadiq Garh Palace, Dera Nawab Sadib
Baria State Forces: Bombay District - Baria, Gujarat Agency
Headquarters
Baria Ranjit Infantry: Devgadh Baria
Baria Subhag Risala: Devgadh Baria
Baria State Band: Devgadh Baria
Baroda State Forces: Bombay District - Baroda, Gujarat Agency
Headquarters
2nd Baroda Lancers: Baroda
1st Baroda Infantry: Baroda
2nd Baroda Infantry: Baroda
Benares State Forces: Lucknow District - Benares, Central India Agency
1st Benares (Prabhu Narain's Own) Battalion: Ramnagar, Benares
2nd Benares Cavalry Troop: Ramnagar, Benares
Bharatpur State Forces: Dehli Independent Brigade Area - Bharatpur, Eastern Rajputana States, Rajputana Agency
Headquaters
Bharatpur Bodyguard Cavalry: Bharatpur
Bharatpur Jaswant Household Infantry: Bharatpur, Kanjoli Lines
Jaswant Garrison Company: Bharatpur Fort
Bhavnagar State Forces: Bombay District - Bhavnagar, Salute State, Western Indian Agency
Bhavnagar Lancers: Bhavnagar
Bhavnagar Infantry: Bhavnagar
Bhopal State Forces: Bombay District - Bhopal, Central India Agency
Headquarters
Bhopal Sultania Infantry: Bhopal
Bhopal Gohar-i-Taj Own Training Company: Bhopal
Bikanir State Forces: Sind Brigade Area - Bikinir, Rajputana Agency
Headquarters
Bikaner Bijey Battery: Bikanir
Bikaner Motor Machine-Gun Sections: Bikanir
Bikaner Dungar Lancers (included His Highness' Bodyguard) : Bikanir
Bikaner Ganga Risala: Bikanir
Bikaner Sadul Light Infantry: Bikanir
Bikaner State Band: Bikanir
Chamba State Forces: Lahore District - Chamba, Punjab States
Chamba Bodyguard: Chamba
Chamba Infantry: Chamba
Datia State Forces: Meerut District - Datia, Central India Agency
Datia 1st Govind Infantry: Datia
'B' Company (Training), Datia Govind Infantry: Datia
Dhar State Forces: Bombay District - Dhar, Central India Agency
Dhar (Maharaj Kumari Kamla Rajes's Own) Light Horse: Dhar
Dhar Intantry (Maharaja Annard Raco's Own Laxmi Guards): Dhar
Dholpur State Forces: Delhi Independent Brigade Area - Dholpur, Eastern Rajputana States, Rajputana Agency
Dholpur Narsingh Infantry: Dholpur
Dhrangadhra State Forces: Bombay District- Dhrangadhra, Gujarat Agency
Dhrangadhra State (Maharaja's Own) Bodyguard: Dhrangadhra
Dhrangadhra Makhwan Infantry: Dhrangadhra
Faridkot State Forces: Lahore District - Faridkot, Punjab States
Headquarters
Faridkot His Highness' Body Guard: Faridkot
Faridkot Sappers and Miners: Faridkot
Faridkot Sappers and Miners Depot and Reserve: Faridkot
Faridkot Band: Faridkot
Gwalior State Forces: Meerut District - Gwalior
Headquarters
Gwalior Cavalry Brigade
1st Gwalior Jayaji Lancers: Guna Cantt.
2nd Alijah Gwalior Lancers: Thatipur
3rd Maharaja Madho Rao Scindia's Own Lancers: Morar
'B' Battery, Gwalior Horse Artillery: Morar
Gwalior Infantry Brigade
1st Gwalior Maharani Sakhya Raja's Own Battalion (Jaya Bahadur Battalion): Lashkar Kampoo
2nd Gwalior Maharaja Jajaji Rao's Battalion: Lashkar Kampoo
3rd Gwalior Maharaja Scindia's Own Battalion: Morar
4th Maharaja Bahadur's Own Battalion: Morar
7th Gwalior Scindia's Battalion (Training): Morar
Gwalior Mountain Battery: Morar
Hyderabad State Forces: His Exalted Highness the Nizam's Regular Forces: Deccan District - Hyderabad
Headquarters
1st (Nizam's Own) Hyderabad Imperial Service Lancers: Asufnagar
2nd (Nizam's Own) Hyderbad Imperial Service Lancers: Golconda. Chawan Muhamundi
3rd Hyderabad (Nizam's Own) Golconda Lancers: Golconda Fort
Hyderabad Cavalry Training Squadron: Asafnagar
'A' Battery, Hyderabad Horse Artillery: Mullapalli
1st Hyderabad Infantry: Goshamahal
2nd Hyderabad Infantry: Chandraingutta
3rd Hyderabad Infantry (Nizam's Own): Saifabad
Hyderabad Infantry Training Company: Nampally, Saifabad
Idar State Forces: Bombay District - Idar, Salute State, Western India Agency
Headquarters
Idar Sir Pratap Infantry: Himatnagar
Indore State Forces: Bombay District- Indore, Central India Agency
Headquarters
Indore Holkar's Mounted Escort: Indore
Indore 1st Battalion Maharaja Holkar's Infantry: Indore
(Companies A and B Mahesh Guards)
Jaipur State Forces: Delhi Independent Brigade Area - Jaipur Residency, Rajputana Agency
Headquarters
Kachhawa Horse: Jaipur
Sawai Man Guards: Bhagwant Dass Barracks, Jaipur
1st Battalion, Jaipur Infantry: Jaipur
2nd Battalion, Jaipur Infantry: Jaipur
Jammu and Kashmir State Forces: Rawalpindi District - Jammu and Kashmir
Headquarters
Jammu amd Kashmir Fort Guards: 7 Forts
Jammu Brigade
1st, 2nd Jammu and Kashmir Mountain Batteries
5th Squadron, Jammu and Kashmir Bodyguard Cavalry: Jammu Cantt.
1st Jammu and Kashmir Infantry (Raguprartap Regiment) : Jammu Cantt.
2nd Jammu and Kashmir Rifles (Bodyguard Regiment): Jammu Cantt.
6th, 7th Jammu and Kashmir Infantry: Jammu Cantt.
Jammu and Kashmir Infantry Training Battalion: Jammu Cantt.
Jammu and Kashmir Military Transport Corps: Jammu Cantt.
Jammu and Kashmir Army Training School: Jammu Cantt.
Kashmir Brigade
Jammu and Kashmir Bodyguard Cavalry: Srinagar (Summer) (Jammu Cantt. Winter)
3rd Jammu and Kashmir Rifles (Ragunath Regiment) : Manouver Area, Mirput District
4th Jammu and Kashmir (Fateh Shibji) Infantry: Srinagar
5th Jammu and Kashmir Light Infantry (The Suraj Gurkha Rifle Regiment): Srinagar
Jind State Forces: Lahore District - Jind, Punjab States
Jind Bodyguard Cavalry: Sangrur
Jind Infantry: Sangrur
Jind (2nd Line) Infantry: Sangrur
Jodhpur State Forces: Bombay District
Headquarters
Jodhpur Sarda Rissala: Jodhpur
Jodhpar Training Squadron: Jodhpur
Jodhpur Sardar Infantry: Jodhpur
Jodhpur State Military Band: Jodhpur
Junagadh State Forces: Bombay District - Junagadh, Salute State, Western India Agency
Janagadh Lancers: Janagadh
Junagadh Mahabatkhanji Infantry: Junagadh
Kapurthala State Forces: Lahore District - Kapurthala, Punjab States
Kapurthala Bodyguard : Kapurthala
Kapurthala Jagatjit Infantry: Kapurthala
Kapurthala Paramjit Infantry: Kapurthala
Kotah State Forces: Delhi Independent Brigade Area - Kotah, Eastern Rajputana States, Raputana Agency
1st Umed Infantry: Kotah
Kutch State Forces: Bombay District - Kutch, Western India Agency
Kutch (His Highness') Bodyguard: Bhuj
Kutch State Infantry: Bhuj
Malerkotla State Forces: Lahore District - Malerkotla, Punjab States
Headquarters
Malerkotla Bodyguard: Malerkotla
Malerkotla Sappers and Miners: Malerkotla
Mandi State Forces: Lahore District - Mandi, Punjab Hill States, Punjab States
Headquarters
Mandi-Joginder Sappers and Miners: Mandi
Mandi Palace Guard: Mandi
Mewar State Forces: Bombay District - Mewar, Mewar and Southern Rajputana States, Rajputana Agency
Mewar Lancers: Udiapur
Mewar Bhupal Infantry: Udiapur
Mewar Sajjan Infantry: Udiapur
Mewar Bhupal Training Company: Udiapur
Mudhol States Forces: Deccan District - Mudhol, Kholapur and Deccan Agency
Sajjan Singh Infantry: Mudhol
Mysore State Forces: Madras District -Mysore
Mysore Lancers: Bangalore
Mysore Horse (Training Squadron) : Mysore
1st Battalion, Mysore Infantry: Bangalore
2nd Battalion (Training Company), Mysore Infantry: Bangalore
3rd Battalion, Mysore Infantry: Mysore with detachments at Shimoga
Mysore Band: Bangalore
Nabha State Forces: Lahore District - Nabha, NW Railway
Nabha Akal Infantry: Nabha
Navanagar State Forces: Bombay District - Navanagar, Western India Agency
Navanagar State Lancers: Jamnagar
Navanagar State Infantry: Jamnagar
Palanpur State Forces: Bombay District - Palanpur, Western India Agency
Palanpur Iqbal Infantry: Palanpur
Panna State Forces: Meerut District - Panna, Central India Agency
Panna Chhatrasal Infantry: Panna
Patiala State Forces: Lahore District - Patiala, Punjab States
Headquarters
lst Patiala (Rajindra) Lancers: Patiala
2nd Patiala Lancers: Patiala
1st Patiala Infantry (Rajindra Sikhs): Patiala
2nd Patiala Yadavindra Infantry: Patiala
3rd Patiala Infantry: Patiala
4th Patiala Infantry: Patiala
Porbandar State Forces: Bombay District - Porbandar, Western India Agency
Porbandar Bodyguard Cavalry: Porbandar
Porbandar Infantry: Porbandar
Rajpipla State Forces: Bombay District - Rajpipla, Gujarat Agency
Headquarters
Rajpipla Bodyguard Cavalry: Rajpipla
Rajpipla Infantry: Rajpipla
Rampur State Forces: Meerut District - Rampur, Punjab States
Headquaners
Rampur (Rohilla) Lancers: Rampur
1st Rampur (Raza) Infrntry: Rampur
2nd Rampur (Murtaza) Infantry: Rampur
Ratlam State Forces: Bombay District - Ratlam, Central India Agency
Ratlam Lokendra Rifles: Ratlam
Rewa State Forces: Meerut District - Rewa, Central India Agency
Headquarters
Rewa Venkat Battalion: Rewa
Sirmoor State Forces: Lahore District - Sirmoor, Punjab Hill States, Punjab States
Headquarters
His Highness of Sirmoor's Bodyguard: Nahan
Sirmoor Sappers and Miners: Nahan
Sirmoor State Band: Nahan
Suket State Forces: Lahore District - Suket, Punjab Hill States, Punjab States
Headquarters
Suket Lakshman Cavalry: Sundarnagar
Suket Lakshman Infantry: Sundarnagar
Suket Band: Sundarnagar
Tehri-Garhwal State Forces: Meerut District - Tehri-Garhwal, Punjab Hill States, Punjab States
Headquarters
Tehri-Garhwal Sappers and Miners: Tehri (Garhwal)
Narendra Pioneers: Tehri (Garhwal)
Tehri Infantry and Band: Tehri (Garhwal)
Tranvancore State Forces: Madras District, Madras States
Headquarters
His Highness the Maharaja's Body Guard: Trivandrum
1st Tranvancore Nayar Infantry: Trivandrum
2nd Tranvancore Nayar Infantry: Trivandrum
3rd Tranvancore Nayar Infantry: Trivandrum
Tripura State Forces: Presidency and Assam District - Tripura, Eastern States Agecny
Tripura (Bir Bikram) Manikya Rifles: Agartala
ORIGINAL: inqistor
Does not seem to be brigades (in combat sense) to me. Sending separate battalions to front lines? No way in Commonwealth army.
It looks like Depot Brigades (this was abandoned before WWI, but who knows system used in India, how was it made with Ghurkas?). Andy mentions Regiments, and Regiment in UK nomenclature is administrative unit, which takes care of training reserves from territory (and sending whole locally trained Brigades for Divisions).
But in case of invasion, it would probably muster its training men, and despite names of battalions, I would guess they had much more men, than standard combat battalion (12SS had at Arnhem training battalion of more, than 2200 men)
RE: Jammu and Kashmir Brigades
Sadly I dont have a date for this OOB.
Bannu Bde 4 Jammu & Kashmir, 5/15 Punjab, 6/6 Rajputana Rifles, 6/8 Punjab, 7 Jammu & Kashmir, 7/1 Punjab
Gardai Bde Formed 15/10/44 from 75 Bde
Khojak Bde disbanded 15/5/44 3/4 Gurkha Rifles, 6/7 Rajput, 7/19 Hyderabad,8 Medium Rgt
Kohat Bde 1/16 Punjab, 7/13 Frontier Force Rifles, Bairab Nath Rgt, 21 Mtn Rgt
Landi Kotal Bde 3/6 Gurkha Rifles, 5/10 Baluch, 6/11 Sikh, 6/19 Hyderabad, 7/12 Frontier Force, 8/11 Sikh, 8/8 Punjab
Noshera Bde 1 Lincolnshire, 7/14 Punjab, Purnao Gorakh Rgt,
Peshawar Bde 2 Duke of Wellingtons Rgt, 2/2 Punjab, 4/15 Punjab, 6/18 Royal Garwhal Rifles, 26 Mtn Rgt
Quetta Bde ??? At 3/9/39 it had 1 Lancashire Fusiliers, 1/10 & 2/10 Gurkha Rifles
Razmak Bde 1 Queens Royal Rgt, 1 Warwickshire Rgt, 1/10 Gurkha Rifles, 2 Kings own Scots Borderers, 3/1 Punjab, 4/17 Dogra, 6/5 Mahratta, 7/11 Sikh, 20 Mtn Rgt
Thal Bde 2 Patiala, 6/10 baluch, 6/17 Dogra, Shamsheer Dal Rgt
Wana Bde 2/13 Frontier Force Rifles, 3/6 Rajputana Rifles, 4/14 Punjab, 6/12 Frontier Force Rgt
Zhob Bde 3/2 Gurkha Rifles,6/2 Punjab, 8/1 Punjab, Shri Nath Rgt
Bannu Bde 4 Jammu & Kashmir, 5/15 Punjab, 6/6 Rajputana Rifles, 6/8 Punjab, 7 Jammu & Kashmir, 7/1 Punjab
Gardai Bde Formed 15/10/44 from 75 Bde
Khojak Bde disbanded 15/5/44 3/4 Gurkha Rifles, 6/7 Rajput, 7/19 Hyderabad,8 Medium Rgt
Kohat Bde 1/16 Punjab, 7/13 Frontier Force Rifles, Bairab Nath Rgt, 21 Mtn Rgt
Landi Kotal Bde 3/6 Gurkha Rifles, 5/10 Baluch, 6/11 Sikh, 6/19 Hyderabad, 7/12 Frontier Force, 8/11 Sikh, 8/8 Punjab
Noshera Bde 1 Lincolnshire, 7/14 Punjab, Purnao Gorakh Rgt,
Peshawar Bde 2 Duke of Wellingtons Rgt, 2/2 Punjab, 4/15 Punjab, 6/18 Royal Garwhal Rifles, 26 Mtn Rgt
Quetta Bde ??? At 3/9/39 it had 1 Lancashire Fusiliers, 1/10 & 2/10 Gurkha Rifles
Razmak Bde 1 Queens Royal Rgt, 1 Warwickshire Rgt, 1/10 Gurkha Rifles, 2 Kings own Scots Borderers, 3/1 Punjab, 4/17 Dogra, 6/5 Mahratta, 7/11 Sikh, 20 Mtn Rgt
Thal Bde 2 Patiala, 6/10 baluch, 6/17 Dogra, Shamsheer Dal Rgt
Wana Bde 2/13 Frontier Force Rifles, 3/6 Rajputana Rifles, 4/14 Punjab, 6/12 Frontier Force Rgt
Zhob Bde 3/2 Gurkha Rifles,6/2 Punjab, 8/1 Punjab, Shri Nath Rgt
Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum
RE: Jammu and Kashmir Brigades
ORIGINAL: Andy Mac
Jammu and Kashmir Brigades are not in the British or British Indian Army
As Andy points out, Indian States Forces troops aren't in any way standard British or Indian units, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Service_Troops . The Princely States were sovereign nations which had ceded some control to the Raj, and which retained limited forces organised on, roughly, the Indian Army model. These forces varied from token bodyguard units all the way up to brigade and, in the case of Hyderabad, near divisional scale forces, but they weren't really capable of being used as deployed units at brigade or higher level. Think of them as local garrison forces, with a strictly limited capability to deploy out of area. Operation Polo, the Indian-Hyderabadi war of 1948, shows how the ISF units might have coped in high-tempo combat - India defeated the forces of the largest Princely State in 5 days (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Polo ).
Even without looking at the ISF units, there are a significant amount of essentially Lines of Communications/garrison brigades in India, frequent inter-communal violence meant the population was just too restive to leave the country without local garrisons - which remains substantially true today, this wasn't simply some effect of the Raj. If you want to reflect them, and the repeated shifts in organisation will make that difficult, then they really need to be modeled as static units, or played in a similar fashion.
The other component that would become significant in the event of a Japanese penetration into India are the home-defence forces: the Auxiliary Force (India) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auxiliary_Force_(India) and the Indian Territorial Force http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Territorial_Force http://www.ordersofbattle.com/Forces/ForceUnits?ForX=84 The Auxiliary Force (India) wasn't called to active duty on a unit basis, but it appears much, if not all, of the ITF may have been (relevant newspaper article here http://newspapers.nl.sg/Digitised/Artic ... .2.71.aspx )
RE: Jammu and Kashmir Brigades
ORIGINAL: dwg
ORIGINAL: Andy Mac
Jammu and Kashmir Brigades are not in the British or British Indian Army
As Andy points out, Indian States Forces troops aren't in any way standard British or Indian units, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Service_Troops . The Princely States were sovereign nations which had ceded some control to the Raj, and which retained limited forces organised on, roughly, the Indian Army model. These forces varied from token bodyguard units all the way up to brigade and, in the case of Hyderabad, near divisional scale forces, but they weren't really capable of being used as deployed units at brigade or higher level. Think of them as local garrison forces, with a strictly limited capability to deploy out of area. Operation Polo, the Indian-Hyderabadi war of 1948, shows how the ISF units might have coped in high-tempo combat - India defeated the forces of the largest Princely State in 5 days (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Polo ).
Even without looking at the ISF units, there are a significant amount of essentially Lines of Communications/garrison brigades in India, frequent inter-communal violence meant the population was just too restive to leave the country without local garrisons - which remains substantially true today, this wasn't simply some effect of the Raj. If you want to reflect them, and the repeated shifts in organisation will make that difficult, then they really need to be modeled as static units, or played in a similar fashion.
The other component that would become significant in the event of a Japanese penetration into India are the home-defence forces: the Auxiliary Force (India) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auxiliary_Force_(India) and the Indian Territorial Force http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Territorial_Force http://www.ordersofbattle.com/Forces/ForceUnits?ForX=84 The Auxiliary Force (India) wasn't called to active duty on a unit basis, but it appears much, if not all, of the ITF may have been (relevant newspaper article here http://newspapers.nl.sg/Digitised/Artic ... .2.71.aspx )
Didn't the Jammu Forces do rather well against Pakistan in 1947?
RE: Jammu and Kashmir Brigades
ORIGINAL: Don Bowen
Didn't the Jammu Forces do rather well against Pakistan in 1947?
Not really a campaign I'm familiar with, skimming the Wiki article on it, their performance sounds fairly mixed - unable to hold initially, but then better when stiffened by Indian regulars, but the level of detail of the article isn't really deep enough for a good read on performance. OTOH the Pakistani ISF forces from Gilgit and Chitral sound like they did rather well.
RE: Jammu and Kashmir Brigades
Interesting... In any event I'm going with Andy. He accounted for all the ISF forces with the base force contingents. I'm just an OOB fanatic and happened to see some brigades that were not present in AE.