ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
To me, sending 200 level bombers on a nighttime raid at 100 feet to smash an airfield is pretty much the same thing. It's way beyond what would have been possible for Japan in reality and is, I think, designed to take advantage of the game's workings. So I hope John won't do it - heck, I hope he won't even think of it.
What has been the extent of your usage of nighttime bombing in the game?
Many games with HRs to limit this activity, as it is likely not performing to expectations. If you've been using it sparingly and I were in John's shoes, I'd respond in kind. If you have been sending hundreds of 4EBs at night to circumvent daylight fighters and take advantage of borked night CAP routines / overly accurate targetting of fields on moonless nights then I'd share his frustration and wouldn't hesitate to respond in kind.
I've never flown a nighttime bombing mission in any game that I've played, primarily because reading the forums gives the impression that it's vastly more effective than it should be.
In one game, perhaps vs. Chez, he did do some small nightime strikes. I told him I was fine with that, but thought he might like to know that if he didn't do them, I wouldn't, and if he did, I would. IIRC, he stopped doing them.
In this game, John has flow perhaps a half dozen or so nighttime raids - most vs. Sabang and a couple vs. Akyab. He's scored a couple of hits against non-essential shipping. At some point in the game, I might respond on a similar scale, but I reserve the right to eschew nightime bombing entirely.
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
Possible explanations for the total blackout on communications from John:
1. A second vehicle hit a second substation in Lasalle, Colorado, resulting in an electrical failure even more prolonged than yesteday's.
2. John III was busy reading under a tree when he fell asleep, had a dream about a worm eating a succulent plant, refused to comply with a sterm command to go to Ninevah, and has ended up in the belly of a large marine animal.
3. The door on John's caboose got stuck and he's been sitting inside, yelling and pounding on the glass windows for 16 hours while his wife was enjoying an " tranquil and restful - unnaturally tranquil and restful - morning."
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
I've never flown a nighttime bombing mission in any game that I've played, primarily because reading the forums gives the impression that it's vastly more effective than it should be.
In one game, perhaps vs. Chez, he did do some small nightime strikes. I told him I was fine with that, but thought he might like to know that if he didn't do them, I wouldn't, and if he did, I would. IIRC, he stopped doing them.
In this game, John has flow perhaps a half dozen or so nighttime raids - most vs. Sabang and a couple vs. Akyab. He's scored a couple of hits against non-essential shipping. At some point in the game, I might respond on a similar scale, but I reserve the right to eschew nightime bombing entirely.
I never seem to have any success with my night air missions, except for dropping mines. So, I tend to use night missions exclusively for mining and CAP.
Never trust a man who's ass is wider than his shoulders.
Possible explanations for the total blackout on communications from John:
1. A second vehicle hit a second substation in Lasalle, Colorado, resulting in an electrical failure even more prolonged than yesteday's.
2. John III was busy reading under a tree when he fell asleep, had a dream about a worm eating a succulent plant, refused to comply with a sterm command to go to Ninevah, and has ended up in the belly of a large marine animal.
3. The door on John's caboose got stuck and he's been sitting inside, yelling and pounding on the glass windows for 16 hours while his wife was enjoying an " tranquil and restful - unnaturally tranquil and restful - morning."
Definitely #2
[:D]
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill
To me, sending 200 level bombers on a nighttime raid at 100 feet to smash an airfield is pretty much the same thing. It's way beyond what would have been possible for Japan
THis is simply patently false. In real life in 1945 the IJAAF was planning night-time raids on airfields at the time of the collapse.. Sure these were to crashland and disperse paratroops/saboteurs on the fields but there's simply no technical reason they couldn't have done it if they wanted. Lost planes training to do it? Sure. But impossible? No.
Just cause you don't wish a thing to be so doesn't make it untrue or impossible. This wish fulfillment as fact thing is bizarre.
Personally I find your use of picket TFs to be rather gamey and certainly more gamey than ordering bombers to fly at one altitude instead of another in missions they did, historically, undertake. So, be careful wielding the "gamey brush" lest it tar you also.
John Dillworth: "I had GreyJoy check my spelling and he said it was fine."
Well, that's that settled then.
Japan was conducting night bombing since Guadalcanal. Since John has conducted night bombing I am not so sure massed night bombing is gamey. you have hundreds of fighters stacked at that base. If it can be disable long enough to bring some big guns in I think it is historically fair play. Maybe it's a question of altitude, but I would not discount to possibility of a heavy night raid. You really only have one good airfield to speak of. That makes it target Ichiban
Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly
Use of picket ships isn't gamey. Even if it was it would be a small thing to avoid a much larger one.
As we all know, the game operates in 24-hour segments while real life takes place by seconds. In the war, you get notice that a large enemy carrier force is visible, you can make the decision to scrub your mission and turn your fleet around. But not in the game. Instead, your force sails blithely forward the entire 24 hours, right into the teeth of the enemy.
In the real war, the Allies nearly always knew the location of the Japanese CVs - or, at least where they weren't. It was rare for the Allies to commit major ships in the unknown. The use of pickets ships - which is historical, by the way - best models this situation. In the real war, where you lived by the second, picket ships might be thrown out a few miles or more. In the game, where we live by 24 hours, we have to multiply that distance accordingly. So we deploy DDs or xAKs in front by 10 or 15 hexes. By doing so, we minimize the 24 hour vs. 1 second problem.
Neither side really had the ability in 1942 and 1943 to used massed waves of nighttime bombers to shut down major enemy airfields. The Japense used an occasional Washing Machine Charlie to lob a couple of bombs at Henderson Field, but that was about it. More importantly, Japan didn't have the ability to do it even had they wanted to. Aircraft were available in much smaller numbers and were much more dispersed. IE, in real life, Japan wouldn't strip the entire DEI of patrol airacraft and bombers on the assumption or belief that the Allies were about to attack New Guinea. But in the game, with the near-magic ability to transfer 500 planes across the map in two or three days, we have another proposition entirely.
I'm not fond of night bombing because it's skewed and opens up things that I don't think could've happened. It's not a matter of wishful thinking, but rather a preference that the game more closely modeled actual capaibilties. By the same token, I wish we could more carefully model the use of picket ships, but we can't, so we have to do the best we can.
That's my argument and I'm sticking to it!
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
Just received word from John that his "going dark" was due to more electrical outages followed by a computer crash followed by work. Embedded in his email was this nugget: "The computer was really funny this morning. I tried to run the turn and it refused to load and then it shutdown. Saw about 50% of the turn (LOTS of ACTION Baby!) before it crashed..."
Ugg. I wish he hadn't lobbed in the "Lots of Action" comment. That's the kind of pre-movie comment I'm trying to avoid. But it also raises my already-heightened curiosity to the "frenzied" level.
Okay, so his computer crashed midway through running a turn in which there was lots of action (Baby!). Can I read between the lines that perhaps the action wasn't particularly favorable to him? That's the kind of thing I've done in the past, but such fantasies never come true. Here's hoping Ginger and Mary Ann are about to knock on my door - after time traveling forward 45 years - wearing "come hither" outfits.
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
While I agree that picket ships are historical, they're not historical in the manner that you're using them CR, or rather the units that you're using aren't historically accurate.
To the best of my knowledge, the Allies only used Navy ships for picket duty, so in game they should either be combat ships or ships with a Navy crew as opposed to a civilian crew. Using civilian ships as a picket also tends to go against everything that the Allied forces claimed to stand for, such as the protection of their civilians.
Use of picket ships isn't gamey. Even if it was it would be a small thing to avoid a much larger one.
As we all know, the game operates in 24-hour segments while real life takes place by seconds. In the war, you get notice that a large enemy carrier force is visible, you can make the decision to scrub your mission and turn your fleet around. But not in the game. Instead, your force sails blithely forward the entire 24 hours, right into the teeth of the enemy.
I don't think the potential issue is the intel provided, but the missions/ordnance spent on a target which would be ignored by a human commander without a way to prevent this in game. This is also the parallel to sacrifical xAK TFs making SCTFs spend their ammo/op points Chickenboy refers to in his post 2820.
Obviously, this can open a huge can of worms as a topic, but here are a few things you might appreciate knowing.
1. I used to use mainly xAK and the like for picket duty, but over my past two games I've come to rely much more on DD, AM and PC. In this game, I can point you to a dozen DDs and another dozen AMs that have been sunk while on picket duty in NoPac, near Hawaii, around Oz, and west of Sumatra, etc.
2. At this point in the game, I've run short of those ships due to attrition. So I've begun mixing in xAK and xAKL. For instance, the current picket line stretching west from Sibolga to map's edge has included six or eight DD (at least two of which have been sunk) and an equal number of xAK (at least three of which have been sunk).
3. The situation here is especially tough because of the proximity of map's edge plus the 24-hour "no response" thing. If I had more room, I could rely more on stealth or military ships.
4. I can guarantee you that the Allies would not have steamed a massive invasion fleet close up to Java and Sumatra without adequate picketing.
5. In the real war, I am sure there are countless instances of the Allies sending civilian or quasi-civilian forces into harm's way to provide warnings or to gather information. And had it been necessary to use merchant shipping, I'm sure they would have done so.
6. John is also using picket ships. He most recently employed several south of New Guinea when he thought my invasion TFs were approaching. He's probably using some around Sumatra, though I can't say that for certain at the moment.
7. When my pickets find the enemy, they scatter. I do not abuse them to make the enemy waste ordinance.
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
Further to point #6, IIR the picket issue started when John employed some very low value AMcs and PBs as pickets because the Japanese start with so many of them. The Allies had no PBs and few AMcs for all the harbours they needed to keep clear, so they could not respond in kind. When John refused to desist, CR asserted his right to use such ships as he had available, but to make it less gamey, committed to use xAKs over xAKLs, where possible.
One could easily enough achieve the same mission as static pickets by giving xAKLs legit cargo missions through the area where intel is needed. Of course the captain would only be told of the cargo mission objective ...
No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth
I've just received a discouraging PM from a reader of John's AAR. If I understand him correctly, he made a post in John's AAR yesterday encouraging John to do an uber night attack; then, four hours later, a flurry of night-fighting discussions ensued in my AAR.
Of course, this may be pure coincidence due to my comment in a post yesterday about IJ night fighters. If that's the case, it's just John's bad luck that clever, smart people read AARs!
But I hope that nobody reading John's AAR would then broach the topic in this AAR! I can't imagine such happening, but just a reminder that if you're reading his, don't post in mine.
I'm waiting to hear back if there's any reason to believe this wasn't purely coincidence. If there's even the slightest doubt, I'm not sure what to do. One possibility is to forget having night fighters. If, however, John is aware that I've been alerted (again, assuming it was more that coincidence) and thus becomes reluctant to do that which he would have done, I'll then encourage you guys to tell him that I've canceled any night fighting plans and he can take free shots.
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
I've never flown a nighttime bombing mission in any game that I've played, primarily because reading the forums gives the impression that it's vastly more effective than it should be.
In one game, perhaps vs. Chez, he did do some small nightime strikes. I told him I was fine with that, but thought he might like to know that if he didn't do them, I wouldn't, and if he did, I would. IIRC, he stopped doing them.
In this game, John has flow perhaps a half dozen or so nighttime raids - most vs. Sabang and a couple vs. Akyab. He's scored a couple of hits against non-essential shipping. At some point in the game, I might respond on a similar scale, but I reserve the right to eschew nightime bombing entirely.
Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly
