The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

[Cap Mandrake]

..<sorry>

[JohnDillworth]

who is the winner in the following battle

Can't tell in this context. Did the RN prevent the IJN from doing something or was this just two guys out looking for a fight?

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Devonshire and Encounter sunk in exchange for Musashi out of commission for this battle. An operational victory if not a tactical one.

Agree with the conclusion, but it goes beyond that.

The (limited) AAR posted indicated a Jap CL and CA with mine hits under separate cover. They're out of the picture for now. In addition to the aforementioned BB, another two Jap DDs most certainly out. Yamato may also be "Winchester" at this point and may be combat ineffective, depending on how much ammo she shot off.

All this for a sunk Brit CA and DD?

Yeah, it's operational attritional warfare-playing into the Allied hands.

[Canoerebel]

Musashi, Mikuma and Sendai likely need some yard time (it's possible, in the emergency, that John will keep them fighting). The Allies lose a valuable CA and a DD, but cruisers are the one thing I'm not critically short of. The Allies are going to have to seriously wittle down the Japanese sea power, and this is a good start. These kinds of ratios are acceptable. If it removes those three ships from the force he can bring to Sabang in the three or four weeks, when this issue is likely to be decided, this was a signficiant strategic victory.

[Canoerebel]

All of us seem to be wrestling with the notion of picket ships, with people falling mainly at both extremes. A few more thoughts on this topic that I think help to clarify the issues:

Some argue that it's okay to use military and quasi military ships but not civilian. I think it's more fair to John that I use civilian ships. The military ships - especially DD - are much harder to track down and sink. The xAK are slow and brittle and easy to sink. So, John should probably be begging me to use the xAK rather than the DD.

At one time I had about eight ships west of Sumatra serving as pickets: four DD and about four to six xAK. The latter were widely dispersed; the former were more forward and tended to "fill in the gaps." John sent out at least one three-DD force that sank at least one of my DD, damaged another, and dispatched two or three xAK. Then a carrier force showed up and sent a handful of Kates to sink another xAK. At that point, the purpose of my pickets had be served. They dispersed, so that the three remaining ships are near map's edge and won't soak off another sortie. The effect is perfectly reasonable: the Allies get the kind of notice you'd expect in these circumstances and John's ability to fight wasn't degraded one bit. What was prevented was the silly aspect of carriers getting to sprint forward for 24 hours with Allied ships taking no evasive action.

Pickets ships, at least how I'm employing them, are 100% reasonable and kosher.

[jeffk3510]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

All of us seem to be wrestling with the notion of picket ships, with people falling mainly at both extremes. A few more thoughts on this topic that I think help to clarify the issues:

Some argue that it's okay to use military and quasi military ships but not civilian. I think it's more fair to John that I use civilian ships. The military ships - especially DD - are much harder to track down and sink. The xAK are slow and brittle and easy to sink. So, John should probably be begging me to use the xAK rather than the DD.

At one time I had about eight ships west of Sumatra serving as pickets: four DD and about four to six xAK. The latter were widely dispersed; the former were more forward and tended to "fill in the gaps." John sent out at least one three-DD force that sank at least one of my DD, damaged another, and dispatched two or three xAK. Then a carrier force showed up and sent a handful of Kates to sink another xAK. At that point, the purpose of my pickets had be served. They dispersed, so that the three remaining ships are near map's edge and won't soak off another sortie. The effect is perfectly reasonable: the Allies get the kind of notice you'd expect in these circumstances and John's ability to fight wasn't degraded one bit. What was prevented was the silly aspect of carriers getting to sprint forward for 24 hours with Allied ships taking no evasive action.

Pickets ships, at least how I'm employing them, are 100% reasonable and kosher.

You guys play it however you want. It's your game. This game is non-historical from the time you hit go on the first turn. Hell, you're playing a non-historical mod in addition to that.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Devonshire and Encounter sunk in exchange for Musashi out of commission for this battle. An operational victory if not a tactical one.

If this frustrated his bombardment plans, this is a clear win for the Allies.
If the torpedoed ships can be further attacked by air or sub, the outcome will be even better! [:)]

[Paladin1dcs]

Honestly, I'd say the mine hits on the CA/CL were more damaging than anything your SCTF did. I see a single TT hit on a IJN BB which is known for it's heavy armor and ability to soak hits. Unless you were lucky with that TT shot, I'll be surprised if JIII doesn't keep those ships on the front line.

In my eyes, without knowing anything else about the situation, I'd say you just wasted a perfectly good CA. The situation may have dictated another course of action, but from where I'm sitting, this doesn't look like a good trade on it's face, especially since the damage that will more than likely result in forces being withdrawn came from a minefield and not surface ships.

[Canoerebel]

ORIGINAL: Paladin1dcs
...In my eyes, without knowing anything else about the situation, I'd say you just wasted a perfectly good CA. The situation may have dictated another course of action, but from where I'm sitting, this doesn't look like a good trade on it's face, especially since the damage that will more than likely result in forces being withdrawn came from a minefield and not surface ships....

[X(]

I cannot fathom this interpretation. The minefield is part and parcel of the overall action. I'm willing to commit CA TFs against much bigger enemy TFs give those mines, the quality of the commanders, the attrition already suffered by the Japanese fleet, and the possibility that damaged Japanese ships may be picked off by subs or strike aircraft. Both sides are in a high-attrition environment, and every which way I look at this it is a pretty important Allied victory.

[Canoerebel]

The Triage Unit

[Canoerebel]

One of the untold stories from this campaign:

Back in early November, as the USN carrier TFs were somewhere west of Cocos Island and beginning to approach Sumatra, a collision occurred in which DD Sterrett suffered extreme damage.  She was down to 2 knots.  Detached from the TF, she made her way slowly towards Colombo.  All the trailing amphibiuos TFs caught and passed her.  She was left in the open even as Japanese combat TFs began scouring the ocean north of Cocos and west of Sumatra.  Somehow, she slipped through the line of enemy subs and finally made Colombo.

[starsis1]

Looking at your screenshot of the ships under repair at Columbo, I noticed that you were using more shipyard tonnage then you had capacity (44k vs 40k). At the same time, you had a couple of DDs with only Sys damage being repaired in the shipyard mode. Unless I am mistaken, you could flip them to Pierside and they would continue repairing just fine while freeing up some shipyard capacity to help other ships that actually need to deal with Major damage in Eng/Flt. While it may not help tremendously, every day that you can shave off could mean more guns and torpedoes on the line at Sumatra.

[Canoerebel]

Those DDs are&nbsp;upgrading and thus I thought "stuck" in yard-mode.&nbsp; I was wrong.&nbsp; I checked and found that I can switch them to pierside.&nbsp; Doing so doesn't even slow down their&nbsp;repair work.&nbsp; So thanks very much for the suggestion.&nbsp; It could be vital, because three more DDs and CL Achilles are moving from Sabang to Colombo for repairs.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Those DDs are upgrading and thus I thought "stuck" in yard-mode.  I was wrong.  I checked and found that I can switch them to pierside.  Doing so doesn't even slow down their repair work.  So thanks very much for the suggestion.  It could be vital, because three more DDs and CL Achilles are moving from Sabang to Colombo for repairs.

I used to think doing so was gamey, but there was a discussion about it some months back that changed my mind. Those knowledgeable about upgrades gave a good explanation of what took place IRL and how the game models that. The upshot is that the size of the yard required is to trigger the upgrade, but as IRL the bulk of the work can be done with lesser facilities (pier side, etc.)

[Canoerebel]

11/30/42 - D+20, Operation Des Wallace
&nbsp;
At Sea:&nbsp; You've already seen the report of the surface clash between Yamato/Musashi and Devonshire.&nbsp; Huzzah for the RN!&nbsp; Unless John is able to replenish at Tandjoen, he sent his TF back to Medan for a third straight night, which means they would've been low on ammo.&nbsp; CL Achilles has moderate damage (40s SYS), so she'll need time at Colombo.&nbsp; The main KB shows up SW of Sibolga and commits her strike aircraft en masse to hit the Allied troops at Medan, destroying one squad and disabling two).&nbsp; The CVE KB is west of Sibolga, in the open and probably ten hexes from the KB.&nbsp; John won't keep 'em separated, I'm sure.
&nbsp;
Allied Carriers:&nbsp; Posted near Colombo.&nbsp; On the offchance that the CVE KB remains too isolated and/or that the KB uses up to many sorties in ground strikes, the CVs will move to a point of Koggala, a position from which it can: (1) recover fighters from Sabang (or send more); (2) cover the LOC between Sabang and Colombo as some damage ships return to the yards and important supply, fuel and reinforcement TFs prepare to go to Sabang; and (3) hit Port Blair if a variety of unlikely circumstances come together.
&nbsp;
On the Ground:&nbsp; Japanese invasion of Sibolga, consisting of 2nd Division (last seen at Luganville) and a regiment, preceded by major bombardment action (Haruna, Kirishima, Kongo, Hiei) and bombing by LBA.&nbsp; It appears that the RCT has vanished.&nbsp; 2nd Div. is probably pretty weak, but so are my three RCT, which are at half strength. Given the J/R terrain, this campaign favors the defender, so I'll conserve AV and fight defensively.&nbsp; 10th IJA Div. is marching this way from Tandjoen.&nbsp; At Medan, the Allied troops are badly disrupted by enemy air strikes, both KB and LBA.&nbsp; The attack fails, though Japan suffers 100+ squads mostly disabled, but about a dozen destroyed.&nbsp; A fresh Indian division just arrived and will shock attack tomorrow.&nbsp; If this fails...well, yikes.&nbsp; (Thank goodness John didn't send 10th Div. here by rail from Tandjoen.)
&nbsp;
In the Air:&nbsp; No night attacks by Japan.&nbsp; For reasons given yesterday,&nbsp;I'm not assigning any fighters to night defense until I receive notice going forward that it's a threat.&nbsp; For the sake of "avoiding even the appearance of impropriety," I'll give John a free shot at Sabang.&nbsp; I hope he doesn't employ them.&nbsp; I'm toying with what to do tomorrow.&nbsp; I'd like to give the troops at Medan some CAP.&nbsp; Do I shift some of my fighters forward to Langsa?&nbsp; If so, I can then bring forward to Sabang some of the Burma B-25s to do some ground pounding.&nbsp; Or do I mainting max CAP at Sabang?&nbsp; Not sure yet.
&nbsp;
Overall Situation:&nbsp; Some things are going well (the surface combat, IMO) while others have been vexxing (the prolonged campaign to take Sibolga and now the effort to capture Medan).&nbsp; The two sides are now in proximity and a bloody attritional campaign should continue for weeks or months.&nbsp; Too early to know who has the upper hand, but with Sabang strong, the Allied carrier fleet intact, the Allied combat ship presence on the increase, and lots of good fighters providing CAP, I feel like the Allies currently have about the strongest defensive position possible.

[Canoerebel]

Over the past 60 days it seems that the Allies have remarkably few Lightnings to work with.&nbsp; I don't know the historic numbers, but I just can't believe the Allies had so few to work with by the end of 1942.&nbsp; Here are the numbers.&nbsp; What do you think:
&nbsp;
1.&nbsp; The Allies currently have five P-38E squadrons permanently restricted to the West Coast.
2.&nbsp; There is one P-38F squadron (at Chittagong) with zero aircraft.&nbsp; The F model went into&nbsp;operation in August and I used all 82 of them.
3.&nbsp; There is one P-38G squadron (at Sabang) with seven aircraft operational and four in the pool.&nbsp; It went into operation in October at a rate of 20/month and I've used 34.
4.&nbsp; The H model will become operational in June 1943 at a rate of 20/month.
5.&nbsp; Reinforcements in the next seven months are limited to one West Coast (permamently restricted) P-38F squadron at Tocoma.&nbsp; Then, in late May '43, three P-38G squadrons arrive at Charters Towers.
&nbsp;
So,&nbsp;from October '42 through May '43, the Allies get 20 P-38G per month.&nbsp; That might be enough to reasonably support the one short-handed squadron currently at Sabang.&nbsp; Does that seem right?&nbsp; If the numbers are too low, I'll bring it to John's attention.&nbsp; If it's right, I'll live with it.&nbsp; But you guys oughta get a look at my fighter and bomber pools.&nbsp; Just hilarious.&nbsp; It's like&nbsp;Japan is the United States and the United States and Britain are Japan.&nbsp;

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
In the Air:  No night attacks by Japan.  For reasons given yesterday, I'm not assigning any fighters to night defense until I receive notice going forward that it's a threat.  For the sake of "avoiding even the appearance of impropriety," I'll give John a free shot at Sabang.  I hope he doesn't employ them.  I'm toying with what to do tomorrow.  I'd like to give the troops at Medan some CAP.  Do I shift some of my fighters forward to Langsa?  If so, I can then bring forward to Sabang some of the Burma B-25s to do some ground pounding.  Or do I mainting max CAP at Sabang?  Not sure yet.

Having been on the receiving end of some early war nighttime attacks by Allied bombers, I will say that I've noticed a big difference re: efficacy depending upon field 'load'. Overloaded airfields (beyond support level of AirHQ or field size) suffer much greater damage than ones within their load envelope. It makes sense, but I really noticed a drop in the Allied nightbombing efficacy when I balanced out my field load more.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
Does that seem right? 

Sounds too high. See if John can mod this further to reduce by about 20 / month. [:'(]

[HarryM]

Supposedly the Japanese called it "two planes, one pilot", so...

[JohnDillworth]

Over the past 60 days it seems that the Allies have remarkably few Lightnings to work with.  I don't know the historic numbers, but I just can't believe the Allies had so few to work with by the end of 1942.  Here are the numbers.  What do you think:

1.  The Allies currently have five P-38E squadrons permanently restricted to the West Coast.
2.  There is one P-38F squadron (at Chittagong) with zero aircraft.  The F model went into operation in August and I used all 82 of them.
3.  There is one P-38G squadron (at Sabang) with seven aircraft operational and four in the pool.  It went into operation in October at a rate of 20/month and I've used 34.
4.  The H model will become operational in June 1943 at a rate of 20/month.
5.  Reinforcements in the next seven months are limited to one West Coast (permamently restricted) P-38F squadron at Tocoma.  Then, in late May '43, three P-38G squadrons arrive at Charters Towers.

So, from October '42 through May '43, the Allies get 20 P-38G per month.  That might be enough to reasonably support the one short-handed squadron currently at Sabang.  Does that seem right?  If the numbers are too low, I'll bring it to John's attention.  If it's right, I'll live with it.  But you guys oughta get a look at my fighter and bomber pools.  Just hilarious.  It's like Japan is the United States and the United States and Britain are Japan.