The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
Somebody mentioned the fact that such a strategy would open the Allies to Auto Victory.  Not at all. Right now John has a 1.77 to 1 lead.  This is at the point where he should be peaking.  He barely made it to 2:1 back in late summer and has been in decline since then.  As you can tell, though, the Allies have alot of room to avoid the 4:1 auto victory situation.  What I've learned from this game is that the Allies can fight aggressively and effectively in 1942, but it may well be against their interests to do so.

That would have been me and you misunderstand my point. An Allied player that pulls back, pulls back, yields territory and valuable VPs for same because of a 'Sir Robin' writ large is in danger of a Japanese auto-victory. If you don't fight for *something* of high value, instead choosing to cede those VPs early, you may lose the game.

This is assuming, of course, that the Japanese player is driving for auto victory in a reasonably careful manner.

Your game against John is about as far the other way as one could imagine. It is hardly reflective of a well-fought and efficient Japanese battle plan seeking to bring the Allies to the brink of AV.

I agree with your last sentence. The Allies are capable of moving their pieces across the board in the Summer of 1942. But they're easily 'spent' in 1942, just as IRL. It may not be in their best interests to fight forward (on multiple fronts) with everything they have.

With all that said, I think what you've done on Sumatra was very nicely done and will, if held, dictate the pace of the balance of the war. Yeah, your USAAF and RAF fighter pools stink, but it's not the end of the world, Dan. Chin up, dude. You're doing well and you'll get the bloodbath you wanted here.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

This was pretty much the plan all along.  Bleed John in Burma - air and ground, both of which have been accomplished.  Then open a second campaign somewhere else - the initial plan being the Aleutians, switching to New Guinea, switching to Sumatra.  The Allied air efforts have not been particularly aggressive, IMO.  The air war has been 95% defensive, which increased efficiency.

The results speak for themselves.  John has lost far more aircraft than have I.  Bottom line, though, is that this strategy is of questionable utility.  I think it's going to work against John, but I'll be very hesitant about using it in the future.

I agree that I've been moderately aggressive overall in this game.  (Hey, don't most Japanese players hate the Sir Robin strategy?)  I think I've also been unusually successful to date and I've also been very cautious.  To date (and subject to catastrophic change at any moment), I haven't lost a carrier, my battleship and cruiser fleets are in good shape, the infantry is in good shape, the Allied airforce has inflicted 50% more casualties on Japan, and the Allies have established a solid (not rock solid, but solid) position in Sumatra.

In general, I would expect under these circumstances that the Allies would be in relatively good shape and Japan would be in big trouble.  I do think John is in big trouble, but the air war is definitely askew IMO. Having fought carefully, efficiently, and effectively, the Allies shouldn't have such thin pools IMO.  If the air war was being waged well but pools were thin in the real war, the Allies would have addressed that.  I can't.  I'm also puzzled how I can have just one P-38G squadron when it seems like other games I read the players have several in operation (but perhaps I'm wrong).

So, what I'm taking from this is that the Allies have to fight even more defensively in the air in 1942 than I had thought, which in turns means the Allies will have to be more cautious, which promotes Sir Robin and Summer Doldrums.  Not always, but I think that's what the game is promoting.

Somebody mentioned the fact that such a strategy would open the Allies to Auto Victory.  Not at all. Right now John has a 1.77 to 1 lead.  This is at the point where he should be peaking.  He barely made it to 2:1 back in late summer and has been in decline since then.  As you can tell, though, the Allies have alot of room to avoid the 4:1 auto victory situation.  What I've learned from this game is that the Allies can fight aggressively and effectively in 1942, but it may well be against their interests to do so.

Worse case scenario. You get ejected from Sumatra with serious losses in ground troops and perhaps a fair amount of shipping..

However, it will take him months to do so and force him to focus all his attention there. So far, it looks as if all other offensive operations by John are on the shelf.

So in a worse case scenario you will have achieved a strategic victory by breaking the Japanese player's initiative. Severe as your losses could be, they are all replaceable. The Japanese player will never be able to make up for the lost time.

And if he does not throw you out, he is finished.

Yes, well worth the gamble.

Besides, does not look as if anyone is getting bored of reading about it. And that is really why you are here. To keep us entertained....[;)]

[Saros]

With all this talk about planes it's important to remember that the IJN/IJAAF recieve limited amounts of pilots per month. The Scen 1 numbers is something like 150/month for the navy and 175/month for the army. While its probably boosted a bit in RA pilots and not planes are the limiting factor for the Japanese player.

If he's losing more pilots than that he is permanently reducing his pilot totals and while he has a buffer from the start of the game and training since that eventually runs out. I know navy pilots especially are thin on the ground in my game and I have lost significantly less than he has.

[Canoerebel]

I think John is working on a turn as I type.  He's had a crazy work schedule this week, but I also think he's reached the point where he isn't "looking for windows of opportunity" to flip turns.  I think last turn's loss of Kates (it was 40, not 30 as I had specified) really got his goat.  His competitive fires are likely to rejuvinate fast once he runs this turns, assuming his patrols catch wind of my carriers.  Hopefully, we'll do a few turns today.
 
After today, I shut down for the rest of the week.  Unless something goes awry, my boys and I are returning to the Appalachian Trail, to cover roughly 50 miles from Davenport Gap through Hot Springs and beyond.  We're starting to get close to where NYGiants lives.  Another year or two and I should be able to impose on him for a shuttle ride.  Hey, Michael, you don't mind giving a ride to four stinking men, do you?

[Canoerebel]

Oops, I misread the tea leaves.  John has requested a sabbatical from the game until school starts around August 12.  He's got tons of irons in the fire right now - work, family, work, mod, work, work - so it's understandable and fine by me.  Since I'll be backpacking the rest of this week, I'll perhaps get a chance to regain some perspective about sleep and this crazy game.
John was very gracious to telephone to ask me about all this.  It was much fun to talk to him about real life and about the fun game we're embroiled in. 

He's going to send back the current turn - he didn't say when, but I think he implied near term - and then we'll sit on the game until mid August.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Oops, I misread the tea leaves.  John has requested a sabbatical from the game until school starts around August 12.  He's got tons of irons in the fire right now - work, family, work, mod, work, work - so it's understandable and fine by me.  Since I'll be backpacking the rest of this week, I'll perhaps get a chance to regain some perspective about sleep and this crazy game.
John was very gracious to telephone to ask me about all this.  It was much fun to talk to him about real life and about the fun game we're embroiled in. 

He's going to send back the current turn - he didn't say when, but I think he implied near term - and then we'll sit on the game until mid August.

Some questions:

1. You have a telephone in your office? [X(]

2. What's the phone number?

3. If you have an administrative assistant / receptionist, how would she feel about getting calls for "the Allied fanboi", "Canoerebel" or just exultations of "BANZAI!!!" as soon as she answers the phone?

[;)]

[Encircled]

I can imagine the phone call now

"Mr Canoerebels secretary" (ok, I'm 80% sure thats not his real name, but you never know!)

"BANZAI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Eat my saki!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

"Hello sir, do you mind holding while I check Mr Canoerebels dairy"

"No problem, I do hope I'm not bothering him"

[Cpt Sherwood]

She is going to check CRs dairy? That doesn't sound right. I hope she checks his diary.

[Canoerebel]

John didn't sound at all like I imagined him to be.  He has an unusually deep voice.  I'm not sure exactly what I had expected, but for some reason I think I had formed a mental image of some surfer dude who is MUCH younger than me (five years, don't ya know).  Maybe Beach Boys, not Oak Ridge Boys ("oompapa, oompapa, mama!")  I was expecting casual and young; what I heard was polite, authorative and commanding.
 
Anyhow, yes, I am part of a seemlessly run office workplace.  There are all of two of us here.  I do important stuff like, at times, answer the phone, run the mail, clean the toilet, and play AE.
 
You can contact me at www.sendkeylimepie.yum.
 
 

[Encircled]

Schoolboy error

Unless CR works on a farm, in which case I've got away with it

[Capt. Harlock]

Oops, I misread the tea leaves. John has requested a sabbatical from the game until school starts around August 12. He's got tons of irons in the fire right now - work, family, work, mod, work, work - so it's understandable and fine by me. Since I'll be backpacking the rest of this week, I'll perhaps get a chance to regain some perspective about sleep and this crazy game.

Arrgh. You do realize you'll have dozens of readers going through withdrawal?

[modrow]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

John didn't sound at all like I imagined him to be.  He has an unusually deep voice.  I'm not sure exactly what I had expected, but for some reason I think I had formed a mental image of some surfer dude who is MUCH younger than me (five years, don't ya know).  Maybe Beach Boys, not Oak Ridge Boys ("oompapa, oompapa, mama!")  I was expecting casual and young; what I heard was polite, authorative and commanding.

Any trace of an Italian accent[8D]? The battle for AAR post/hit counts sometimes requires special measures...

Just a thought...

Hartwig

[ny59giants]

Dan,

Finally getting around to reading, "This Terrible Sound" by Peter Cozzens due to a prior recommendation by you. In the first few chapters he mentions that parts of eastern Tennessee were friendly or at least not opposed to the Union forces moving in. Since I've been living in the NE corner of the state for the last 8 years, can you explain why this part of the Confederacy behaved this way??

Thanks!!

[Capt. Harlock]

Since I've been living in the NE corner of the state for the last 8 years, can you explain why this part of the Confederacy behaved this way??

Eastern Tennessee, and what is now West Virginia, had very few slaves. (Because of the terrain and climate, plantation-type farms didn't work as well in those regions.) Consequently, pro-Union sentiment was much stronger in these areas. (The North had a mirror problem: the southern parts of Missouri and parts of Kentucky felt an allegiance to the South, and tried fairly hard to secede.)

[DOCUP]

Following up with what Capt. Harlock mentioned above about West Virginia. I am from South Western West Virginia. We have few slaves in what is now WV and parts of VA. There was more of VA that could have been drawn into WV but wasn't due to the debt of those area. People of the time didn't really see slavery as a good thing most a negative opinion of it, like we do now. The people of this region were pro Union or pro American and still is today.

I know that 2 members of my family fought one battle in the Civil war. It was a local battle. As the story goes they were first cousins one was Union and one was Confederate. They lined up againist each other. After the battle they both deserted and went home. those 2 muskets have been passed down ever since. My uncle has them now.

[pws1225]

I know that 2 members of my family fought one battle in the Civil war. It was a local battle. As the story goes they were first cousins one was Union and one was Confederate. They lined up againist each other. After the battle they both deserted and went home. those 2 muskets have been passed down ever since. My uncle has them now.

Nice story.

[ssquibb79]

Capt Harlock Nailed it, most folks here in East TN didnt like being drug into the war by what they considered the rich plantation owners...there were quite a few small battles fought all over here. I have found many musket balls on our farm...and one of our neighbors plowed up a cannon ball....it was quite fun watching the local bomb squad make it inert [:D]

[DW]

We have few slaves in what is now WV and parts of VA.

I should hope not. [:)]

I read once that part of the reason that W. Virginia had few slaves was the nature of the original settlement of the area. Many of the settlers were Germans who had migrated south from Pennsylvania, as opposed settlers in the more southern parts of western Virginia, who tended to come from eastern Virginia and the Carolinas. Pennsylvania Germans tended to be more anti-slavery from the get go.

When I read ny59giants question, I had to wonder if that also might be a factor in the eastern parts of KY and TN, being that they're in the same neck of the woods and were settled in the same time frame.

As a side note, one branch of my family is descended from the Pennsylvania Germans, and one of my ancestors, Daniel Shuster was a member of the Youghegenia Militia during the Revolutionary War period.

I know that after the Civil war, when W. Virginia had become a state, those who strongly supported being independent of Virginia wanted to shore up their control of the state against those who might be less sympathetic to the new reality and might be inclined toward re-unification with Virginia.

So, they actively advertised for settlers in the German parts of Switzerland, as the Swiss Germans were seen as having similar values and wouldn't have any lingering loyalty to Virginia, promising free land to any who would come.

Another branch of my family took the offer, and that's how they came to be here, and which is how I happen to know that tidbit of information.

[zuluhour]

Dan, A note to say I look forward to you and John continuing along. It has been one of the best opposing pair of AARs to read. I must say it has helped with the learning curve in so far as S&T is concerned and highly enjoyable as well. While I read quite a few of them now, there are so many good ones, I looked forward to reading John's in the morning over coffee and yours in the evening, after the toils of the day.

[Paladin1dcs]

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock

Since I've been living in the NE corner of the state for the last 8 years, can you explain why this part of the Confederacy behaved this way??

Eastern Tennessee, and what is now West Virginia, had very few slaves. (Because of the terrain and climate, plantation-type farms didn't work as well in those regions.) Consequently, pro-Union sentiment was much stronger in these areas. (The North had a mirror problem: the southern parts of Missouri and parts of Kentucky felt an allegiance to the South, and tried fairly hard to secede.)

This is true, but there's more to it than that. I'm actually from Southwestern Virginia and currently live in WV and can tell you that it was more to do with the fact that most people around here had a fairly modern outlook on things. They viewed chattel slavery as wrong, due to Biblical reasons, but they also didn't want to be dragged into a war, on either side, and were fiercely defensive of States rights. My own family had five siblings join the CSA, fighting in two different VA Regiments, but only after Lincoln demanded that troops be raised after SC troops fired on Ft. Sumpter. The common denominator for all of these areas, as others have pointed out, is that this idea of individual liberty and responsibility was widespread in the Appalachian Mountains.

It was literally a case of the President making matters worse than they already were.