Morale Settings Question

[Peltonx]

You can do the same with Romania units

[Peltonx]

It looks like the 100 to 101 simply ups the chance of a gained pt.

So it is easyer to gain a point, but like I have posted you can do the same thing with 100 as 101 or 105, it simply takes longer.

BUT IT CAN BE DONE AND HAS BEEN BEING DONE FOR YEARS NOW BY ME.

Nothing broken its simply working as designed, which it was not before 1.07.

Whos the of Morale?

[Peltonx]

Ok here is my test using 100 setting.

at start 36th is 85 morale and the other 2 start at 90.

So again getting 99 with a 100 setting is easy. Its is faster at 101 or 103 or 105.

Also I was not totally set-up until the last turn of testing so most of the gains were in a single turn.

You can get all SU's to 99 using my defensive set-up

Who is of Morale?

[Peltonx]

As long as SHC keeps using checker boards or pickets to screen getting above 95 morale on any unit is easy no matter what the setting.

Why I have been saying GHC players should be getting a draw at min.

Morale is the biggest part of the game so once you get most of the German infantry over 80+ in 42 the lines will not be broken until mid-44 and that was with several bugs handy capping GHC. I have proven this as 3.5 million vs 9.5 million held the lines into March 44(with bugs).

The higher morale/exp lowers losses ect ect as with everything this has a snow ball effect.

[Manstein63]

ORIGINAL: Michael T


Personally I am sorry if my initial support of this setting has influenced others to start games with it. I can only offer that I assumed that a setting of 105 simply meant NM was increased from 75 to 80. That assumption was wrong.

Michael have you tried running SHQ @100 & GHQ @101-05? The higher chance of a Axis moral gain might be mitigated by the more robust soviet units
Manstein63

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: Manstein63

ORIGINAL: Michael T


Personally I am sorry if my initial support of this setting has influenced others to start games with it. I can only offer that I assumed that a setting of 105 simply meant NM was increased from 75 to 80. That assumption was wrong.

Michael have you tried running SHQ @100 & GHQ @101-05? The higher chance of a Axis moral gain might be mitigated by the more robust soviet units
Manstein63

my tests were at 100 vs 100, but you make a good point.

if you have less units to pick on it will take longer, but the chances are the same.

[Michael T]

Pelton from the look of it took your 1st Pz XX took 64 wins with no defeats to get to 98.

With a setting of 101 it takes no more than about 12 wins to go from 85 to 99.

Also I doubt you could get a INF XX to 99 morale. But with 101 you can do it in 20 wins if you start from 80 morale.

You are way wrong on this issue. Any morale setting above 100 is an I win for the Axis, and you know it.

[Spielverderber]

Thank you for calling him out on it. Believe me, I don't want to cause trouble. I love this game and I would like to keep playing it.

[SigUp]

ORIGINAL: Spielverderber
100/95 might be a good solution because it gives the Axis player the chance to do the huge Lvov pocket.

I think you are missing the issue here. MT for example can do the extended Lvov opener without problems, even on 100 for the Soviets. The problem is the subsequent turns; with the corrections of 1.07 it is more than easy to put out hordes of 50+ morale Soviet units onto the map, which is a real killer for the Germans in 1941, as those units practically don't rout. The question should be, how quickly the morale for units 10+ hexes away from the front on refit rises. As far as I understood it, Pelton claims that even on Soviet 95 the rise is as fast as on 100. If this is true, morale 95 for the Soviets is meaningless.

EDIT: In my game against the AI with German morale on 100 I got 78th Infantry Division from 80 up to 97 in 16 battles (16-0). On the other hand a division like 1st Infantry Division needed 23-0 to get up from 90 to 97. Similarly for 21st and 30th Infantry Division. 12th Panzer Division rose from 85 to 96 in 25-0, 20th Panzer went from 75 to 86 in 15-0, the 18th Panzer did the same with one more victory.

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: Michael T

Pelton from the look of it took your 1st Pz XX took 64 wins with no defeats to get to 98.

With a setting of 101 it takes no more than about 12 wins to go from 85 to 99.

Also I doubt you could get a INF XX to 99 morale. But with 101 you can do it in 20 wins if you start from 80 morale.

You are way wrong on this issue. Any morale setting above 100 is an I win for the Axis, and you know it.

Your simply wrong which if and I mean if you look at the all the data (Sigup) now and I am sure I can get some back up from others who are interested in looking at all the data an not what your opinion is about the issue.

Your making wild claims that's its impossible to get 99 morale with 100 settings on MoT and Tanks units, which is flat out BS as I am others have posted its easy to do.

Posts FACTS aka data to back up your silly claims.

More data and less cow manure, you have newbies like Spielverderber believing you manure instead of the data.

[Peltonx]

Ok more data

starting morale:

21st 90
61st 85
58th 75

After just 9-0

21st 95 +5
61st 91 +6
58th 77 +2

I can get the 58th to 83 doing the same test, it is a % roll for sure. But I will keep going with this test.

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: Pelton

Ok more data

starting morale:

21st 90
61st 85
58th 75

After just 9-0

21st 95 +5
61st 91 +6
58th 77 +2

I can get the 58th to 83 doing the same test, it is a % roll for sure. But I will keep going with this test.

After just 13-0

21st 97 +7
61st 91 +6
58th 80 +5

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: Pelton




Ok more data

starting morale:

21st 90
61st 85
58th 75

After just 9-0

21st 95 +5
61st 91 +6
58th 77 +2

I can get the 58th to 83 doing the same test, it is a % roll for sure. But I will keep going with this test.

After just 13-0

21st 97 +7
61st 91 +6
58th 80 +5

After just 18-0

21st 99 +9
61st 93 +8
58th 82 +7

So anyone else who wants to whine about morale settings PUT UP SOME DATA!!!


These tests are at 100 to 100.

If 2by3 has any questions about how I am doing it as long as it stays between me and them I will explain.

MT you have been

Before cring wolf about morale ask someone who knows how the system works.


I am not going to bother posting how easy it is to get all MoT and Panzer divisions to 95+ you can see that for yourselfs.


The of Morale.

Refute them numbers [&o]

[Peltonx]

When is witw coming out?

heheehheehehehehhehehehehehehehehehehehehe

[Michael T]

Once again in order to muddy the water we have numerous propaganda posts from you Pelton.

Getting Elite units to 99 morale like the SS, GD or the 78th ID is and has always been easy. It is a given

Sure by getting some great leaders in charge you can get the odd regular INF XX up to the high 90's in morale.

But even so it is not a given. It is probability based and harder to achieve as you get further above the NM. I refer again to the 1st Pz XX in your own example. It took 64 wins to get to 98 morale. Sure some will take less wins, some more.

BUT once you set morale to 101 or more getting to 99 morale with any unit is GUARANTIED AND way way way FASTER!!

Not only is it guaranteed, it is possible to do without great leaders. AND it is a PRACTICAL possibility to get a very large portion of your Army up in the very high 90's and keep them there, not only in 1941 but also 1942. Maybe even 1943 and beyond. I have not tested that yet.

But not only the Germans, all the minor allies can get at least to 75, maybe more, I stopped at 75 as it was becoming ludicrous.

And you, the all knowing seer of morale must have known this. Yet you still advocated a 101 morale setting when all along you must have known its a Axis 'I win button'

Do you dare refute that a Axis morale setting of 101 is not a Axis 'I win button'?

You know it, yet you deliberately preyed on unsuspecting opponents to guarantee a few more wins on your pathetic win loss record, which I note is entirely inaccurate.

I will never take anything you say again for granted, which sadly I did when you advocated that setting morale to 105 was a fair balance to the current Soviet morale issues in 1941. You have openly misrepresented the facts and the true effects of a morale setting of more than 100.

You sir, lack the spirit of fair play.

People should run their own tests and compare the morale increases achieved between using 100 morale and 101. Its huge. It far outweighs any advantage the Reds have under the latest morale changes.

I sincerely doubt any fair minded person could disagree with my assertions.

[Michael T]

Here is a simple test anyone can do. It takes 5 minutes.

Start the Road to Leningrad Scenario using the latest patch with morale settings 100. Change nothing.
Get the 11th ID, stack it with some other ID to make sure of your wins. Win 6 battles. It starts with 90 morale and after 6 wins is still 90 morale.

Repeat test, but this time with morale settings at 101.
End morale 98.

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: Michael T

Here is a simple test anyone can do. It takes 5 minutes.

Start the Road to Leningrad Scenario using the latest patch with morale settings 100. Change nothing.
Get the 11th ID, stack it with some other ID to make sure of your wins. Win 6 battles. It starts with 90 morale and after 6 wins is still 90 morale.

Repeat test, but this time with morale settings at 101.
End morale 98.

Noper silly boy the setting is 100 every single turn

I can send files to 2by3 I have them saved.

I would think as smart as you are you have figured it out by now.

I think its burning your butt you can't figure out how I am getting to 99 at the 100 setting.

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: Michael T

Once again in order to muddy the water we have numerous propaganda posts from you Pelton.

Getting Elite units to 99 morale like the SS, GD or the 78th ID is and has always been easy. It is a given

Sure by getting some great leaders in charge you can get the odd regular INF XX up to the high 90's in morale.

But even so it is not a given. It is probability based and harder to achieve as you get further above the NM. I refer again to the 1st Pz XX in your own example. It took 64 wins to get to 98 morale. Sure some will take less wins, some more.

BUT once you set morale to 101 or more getting to 99 morale with any unit is GUARANTIED AND way way way FASTER!!

Not only is it guaranteed, it is possible to do without great leaders. AND it is a PRACTICAL possibility to get a very large portion of your Army up in the very high 90's and keep them there, not only in 1941 but also 1942. Maybe even 1943 and beyond. I have not tested that yet.

But not only the Germans, all the minor allies can get at least to 75, maybe more, I stopped at 75 as it was becoming ludicrous.

And you, the all knowing seer of morale must have known this. Yet you still advocated a 101 morale setting when all along you must have known its a Axis 'I win button'

Do you dare refute that a Axis morale setting of 101 is not a Axis 'I win button'?

You know it, yet you deliberately preyed on unsuspecting opponents to guarantee a few more wins on your pathetic win loss record, which I note is entirely inaccurate.

I will never take anything you say again for granted, which sadly I did when you advocated that setting morale to 105 was a fair balance to the current Soviet morale issues in 1941. You have openly misrepresented the facts and the true effects of a morale setting of more than 100.

You sir, lack the spirit of fair play.

People should run their own tests and compare the morale increases achieved between using 100 morale and 101. Its huge. It far outweighs any advantage the Reds have under the latest morale changes.

I sincerely doubt any fair minded person could disagree with my assertions.

I can get the same numbers a little slower at 100 in all the Panzer armies and several of the infantry armies.

I am not the only one that can do it.

The % changed its that simple plus a few other things.

I can get the units in you question to 99 in 30 or less battles, NP.

Instead of throwing around BS take a few hrs and figure it out yourself, stop being so childish.

You spend hrs and hrs figuring out how to exploit the fuel system, but your to lazy to figure out the morale syatem?

I am starting to think you POed at Kamil for not surrending hehehehe

Play on.

[Michael T]

No Pelton, I have found your exploit and exposed it.

[Ketza]

Jeesh you two are really going at it.

Honestly I am scratching my head over the best course of action here.

My game against Bigbaba I had some units pushing some high morale by August 42 but I had huge sections of the front being held by weak units in the 70s. The majority of my morale gains were from easy wins against weak Soviet pickets.

The game didn't feel "easy" as the Axis player in 1942. It felt competitive. I knew I didn't have the muscle to get Moscow or even get to Stalingrad but smaller goals like clearing the Crimea, Voronezh and Tula while pocketing some stuff along the way was doable. Bigbaba was still able to do very nasty counterattacks when he chose it just wasn't the usual Panzer bloodbath in the Summer of 42.

The answer probably lays somewhere in the middle.