Checklist for house rules

[iley]

First: if this already exist please excuse my lack of knowledge and politely direct me
to the appropriate location.

A humble suggestion:

I have made use of many documents created by members of this form that have assisted me playing the game.

A suggestion to those of you with a talent for such things.
Create a list of the most popular house rules with a box that can be checked off if they're to be used in your game.

That way perspective players will have an easy checklist of the rules there using in each game.

Once again just a humble suggestion and thank you for your time.

Iley

[crsutton]

House rules are like snowflakes. No two of them are the same. My advice is to negotiate with your opponent and use as few as possible. They just end up being misinterpreted and ruining friendships. If you have a reasonable opponent then you probably do not need any. As for some of the more common ones, just read the first page of a few AARs by experienced players to see what they are using.

[dr.hal]

I would argue there is a precursor to "house rules" that should take place before you get into the negotiations of such rules and that is to find an opponent of "like mind" in how to conduct the game. Folks that play this game run a continuum from ANYTHING goes to those that really want a historical recreation. Those two ends of the extreme, if playing one another would have a difficult time staying "friends!" So to narrow down the list of potential players, you might want to establish your "philosophy" about how you would like to play. I for one like the historical approach. I don't want the game to "do things" that were simply not done (for example the Japanese player dropping troops deep into Australian territory simply to disrupt rail traffic). That doesn't mean you can't do things there were not done (one example of which is for the allied player to bug out of Singapore, which politically was totally unacceptable to the British government - read Churchill here) yet is a viable option to the allied player; but that you can't do things that are totally bizarre. If you find a like minded player, then house rules such as they are would be kept to a minimum if needed at all. Hal

[geofflambert]

If you are new to PBEMs, don't bring any house rules and don't readily accept any. There's a couple I'm okay with, but you should first experience the game without any. That being said, almost all house rules favor the Japanese. That might seem to bring balance to the force, but the fact is (realistically) the Japanese will always lose, it was a really stupid series of choices they made that led to this war. Legitimate fun for a player who chooses to play the Japanese is not in winning (that's just impossible) but in doing the most damage, giving your opponent the biggest surprises and delaying the inevitable as long as possible. More fun is available from examining the initial war plans and production and just scrapping it all and starting over.

To some I would say, if you want to change the rules to make it easier on the Japanese, you ought to just play the allies, where no cheats are required.

I should say further, much fun can be had playing the Allies, and you can spend a number of years doing this before you get this urge to move to the other side and teach these young whippersnappers a lesson or two.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

I would argue there is a precursor to "house rules" that should take place before you get into the negotiations of such rules and that is to find an opponent of "like mind" in how to conduct the game. Folks that play this game run a continuum from ANYTHING goes to those that really want a historical recreation. Those two ends of the extreme, if playing one another would have a difficult time staying "friends!" So to narrow down the list of potential players, you might want to establish your "philosophy" about how you would like to play. I for one like the historical approach. I don't want the game to "do things" that were simply not done (for example the Japanese player dropping troops deep into Australian territory simply to disrupt rail traffic). That doesn't mean you can't do things there were not done (one example of which is for the allied player to bug out of Singapore, which politically was totally unacceptable to the British government - read Churchill here) yet is a viable option to the allied player; but that you can't do things that are totally bizarre. If you find a like minded player, then house rules such as they are would be kept to a minimum if needed at all. Hal

+1 to this...

[mike scholl 1]

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

If you are new to PBEMs, don't bring any house rules and don't readily accept any. There's a couple I'm okay with, but you should first experience the game without any. That being said, almost all house rules favor the Japanese. That might seem to bring balance to the force, but the fact is (realistically) the Japanese will always lose, it was a really stupid series of choices they made that led to this war. Legitimate fun for a player who chooses to play the Japanese is not in winning (that's just impossible) but in doing the most damage, giving your opponent the biggest surprises and delaying the inevitable as long as possible. More fun is available from examining the initial war plans and production and just scrapping it all and starting over.

I'd offer a hearty "second" to this observation.[:D]

[Icedawg]

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

If you are new to PBEMs, don't bring any house rules and don't readily accept any. There's a couple I'm okay with, but you should first experience the game without any. That being said, almost all house rules favor the Japanese. That might seem to bring balance to the force, but the fact is (realistically) the Japanese will always lose, it was a really stupid series of choices they made that led to this war. Legitimate fun for a player who chooses to play the Japanese is not in winning (that's just impossible) but in doing the most damage, giving your opponent the biggest surprises and delaying the inevitable as long as possible. More fun is available from examining the initial war plans and production and just scrapping it all and starting over.

To some I would say, if you want to change the rules to make it easier on the Japanese, you ought to just play the allies, where no cheats are required.

I should say further, much fun can be had playing the Allies, and you can spend a number of years doing this before you get this urge to move to the other side and teach these young whippersnappers a lesson or two.

I have to disagree on this point. The HRs Khyberbill and I are using actually limit me (the Japanese player) much more than they limit the allies. We are using two rules that favor the Japanese - No 4E naval attacks below 10k and a rule that limits night bombing. Other than that, the rules are either neutral or favor the allies.

For example, we don't allow bombing of light industry. Without that rule, it would be lights out and game over in China. The only supply he'd be getting would be the inherent "free" supply at various bases. In addition, we have a host of rules regulating first turn moves by the Japanese player. Without this rule, I could have landed at crazy places all over the map on Dec 7th. Only one CV port strike was allowed, so I couldn't hit both Pearl and Manila on turn one. We also limited paradrops such that you can't go dropping unlimited numbers of fragments all over the place to seize empty bases. All of these clearly favor the allies, not the Japanese.

Edit - changed "allies" to "Japanese"

[DavidTheGreat]

We are using two rules that favor the allies - No 4E naval attacks below 10k and a rule that limits night bombing. Other than that, the rules are either neutral or favor the allies.

And how do these rules favour the allies ?

[Numdydar]

This is a fasanating thread [:)].

We started our PBEM game with no house rules with me as Japan. Actually saw no reason for them, but them maybe that is just us lol. I never bombed LI in China since I just caputred it all [X(]. This idea that LI in China (or anywhere else) supply production is a game changer is completely false. Changsha has 160 LI so it will produce a whopping 160 SP/turn. While I do not know the total amount of LI in China at the start of the game, I can say that even it the amout of LI available was 2,000 (I am guessing it is a lot less) does anyone really think that even 2K of supplies per day spread throughout China is a game changer?

However as the game progressed, we found that night bombing was so messed up in our opnion, we just decided to not use it at all. Eliminating this 'feature' from the game had no impact on the game as far as we could tell. And we are a few days from 1945 too.

I think a lot of these rules are based on the precived impact they will have on the game. I agree with geofflambert's comment that until you play a game to completion you will not really have a good understanding of what HRs make sense and which ones are not needed. I would suggest to play the game as is before imposing any HRs before the game even starts.

If one or both of you feel strongly about HRs, then I would discuss them prior to the game and state "if at some point in the game I feel a game mechnic is not working well, then I would like to implement this HR". But I would definately not immeadiately start the game with them. With all the patches and betas (you are using betas right [:)]), a lot of things have changed and some of the HRs based off old game behavior are no longer needed. So until you actual play the game throughout all the cycles it goes through as is, HRs to me make no sense.

Of course in a perfect world you should be able to start a game, find an issue that is a problem (like night bombing in my game) discuss it with your opponent, and come to a mutual decision of what to do about it. [:)]

[AU Tiger_MatrixForum]

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

I would argue there is a precursor to "house rules" that should take place before you get into the negotiations of such rules and that is to find an opponent of "like mind" in how to conduct the game. Folks that play this game run a continuum from ANYTHING goes to those that really want a historical recreation. Those two ends of the extreme, if playing one another would have a difficult time staying "friends!" So to narrow down the list of potential players, you might want to establish your "philosophy" about how you would like to play. I for one like the historical approach. I don't want the game to "do things" that were simply not done (for example the Japanese player dropping troops deep into Australian territory simply to disrupt rail traffic). That doesn't mean you can't do things there were not done (one example of which is for the allied player to bug out of Singapore, which politically was totally unacceptable to the British government - read Churchill here) yet is a viable option to the allied player; but that you can't do things that are totally bizarre. If you find a like minded player, then house rules such as they are would be kept to a minimum if needed at all. Hal

I concur with this, especially bugging out of Singapore. And frankly, the "Sir Robin" approach in Malaysia, and the DEI would have been politically impossible as well. That being said, it IS a game though.....

[iley]

Interesting discussion:

A lot of house rules mentioned. Back to original comment. Would be nice to have a list.
The list complete with checkoff box.

A lot of new players are completely unaware of how the more accomplished players can manipulate the rules.

The list would help protect and enlighten the new arrivals.


As always a humble suggestion.

Iley

[AU Tiger_MatrixForum]

ORIGINAL: iley

Interesting discussion:

A lot of house rules mentioned. Back to original comment. Would be nice to have a list.
The list complete with checkoff box.

A lot of new players are completely unaware of how the more accomplished players can manipulate the rules.

The list would help protect and enlighten the new arrivals.


As always a humble suggestion.

Iley

I understand your meaning, but I believe you may have mis-characterized the intent behind the house rules. Usually they are instituted for some play-ability modification, not as a weapon to victimize a new player. Most here embark on the very time costly enterprise of a PBEM game for fun, and a challenge, not to crush the hapless. Doing so would actually be counter-productive, because how many would continue a game where they felt they had been taken advantage of? Just my 2 cents.

Other than that, a listing of common house rule with explanations of their purpose would be a good thing.

[Richard III]

Here is a set of old house rules someone posted for PBEM Games:
Hope the original authors don`t mind my re-posting. Some are interesting and it should be noted they are for a DBB Game.

A couple of PBEM games I started sputtered to a stop after a couple of turns and I was leery of committing time and effort into an AAR until I was sure this one was a keeper, from the looks of things it looks like it is. My opponent is CT Grognard (CTG), a fairly active member of the forums, I'm looking forward to the fight as it's DBB, version C to boot and to cap it all CTG started off with some fairly aggressive moves.

House Rules as follows, shamelessly lifted from Fletcher's AAR /tip of the hat to Fletcher
Inactive HRs in red. will update HRs as game time passes or events happen to make certain HRs irrelevant.

GENERAL
- IJAAF units must operate with IJAAF aviation support and IJNAF must operate with IJNAF aviation support
- The only IJAAF plane that may be used in an ASW role is the Ki-51 (to reflect historical use)
- Kido Butai will make a single port attack on Pearl Harbor, and will return directly to Japan; if the first assault on Wake by Japan fails, the Japanese player may divert KB to support a second assault
- Americans cannot react to the landings at Tarawa, Wake and Makin; once the first landings take place the Americans are relieved from this rule (if no landings occur, by 14 December 1941)
- Manila and Singapore may have fighters up and on CAP on the 1st turn, but the Allied player cannot transfer any squadrons on the first turn
- The Allied player may give alternate orders to Force Z on the 1st turn. All other Allied TFs may not have their destinations/mission amended; no new Allied TFs may be created on the 1st turn
- Japanese submarines can only be equipped with the E14Y1 Glen
- No partial parachute deployments (i.e. one unit, one target)
- No submarine invasions (with one exception, Marine Raiders on SST submarines)
- All PT boats in a hex must be in the same TF
- 4E bombers cannot operate on Naval Attack below 10,000 ft
- 4E bombers (excluding B-29s) can operate on Ground Attack in hexes that do not have Allied units in them (i.e. cannot be used as close air support). B-29s cannot be used on Ground Attack at all.
- No strategic bombing by either side (oil, resources, HI, LI, manpower) until July 1943
- No night bombing allowed if moonlight is less than 50% (except for B-29s (ground-mapping radar))
- The minimum altitude for night bombing is 3000 feet
- Fighters may only fly sweeps or CAP in either their best or second best maneuver altitude bands
- Japanese surface ships cannot transit the Malacca Strait until Singapore has fallen
- The atomic bomb may not be used on Tokyo
- Commonwealth land and air units may only operate to liberate Commonwealth possessions as well as the Dutch East Indies – i.e. British, Indian, Dutch, Australian and New Zealand units are limited to Australia, New Zealand, India, Burma, Malaya, New Guinea, New Britain, the Solomons, New Hebrides, Fiji, Tonga, Samao etc and the whole of the Dutch East Indies)

MONSOON RULE
- From 15 May to 15 October each year (Monsoon Season) offensive operations in the jungle and mountain hexes on the Burmese front (everything above “Thailand” label within Burma and Thailand borders plus the few jungle hexes going 3 or 4 hexes into “India” – Kohima, Ledo, Imphal area) is highly restricted:
- No shock or deliberate attacks in jungle hexes within the area;
- Deliberate attacks allowed in non-jungle hexes;
- Bombardment attacks allowed everywhere;
- Movement into friendly/empty hexes allowed
- The percentage of aircraft allowed to fly from an airfield in this region during this time is a factor of its size*10% (so an air unit flying from a level 2 airfield can only fly 20% of its aircraft, and must set Rest to 80%)
- No carrier aircraft strikes on Burma from the Gulf of Bengal during this time (however, carrier aircraft can still strike Bengal, Northern India or Malaya from carriers in the Gulf of Bengal)

CHINESE THEATRE:
- No industry bombing in Chinese bases by either side (reflecting dispersed artisanal light industry), but bombing “manpower” is allowed.
- A maximum of 4 squadrons of US four-engine bombers may operate from Chinese bases, but only from level 6 airfields or higher, and the aviation support must be provided by an American unit.
- Chinese forces (and air units) cannot go outside its borders except those assigned to the Chinese Expeditionary Force in Burma/Northern Combat Area Command
- The NCAC shall be limited to four Chinese Corps (12 Chinese Divisions) and one Chinese squadron (to reflect historical deployment of 17th Pursuit Squadron (I-153s)) and may only enter Burma once Rangoon has fallen to the Japanese
- The AVG may operate in Burma and China only

KWANTUNG ARMY
- Units must pay PPs to cross the Kwantung border
- The Japanese player may buy out artillery units to a maximum of 1 artillery regiment for every 3 infantry regiments who have already paid the PPs to exit (i.e. no stripping of artillery units only)
- No Kwantung HQs may be bought out until 1944 or the invasion of the Marianas, the liberation of Rangoon or the occupation of a base in the DEI with a level 4 airfield or higher
- No air units may be moved out of Kwantung until June 1942; from then one daitai may be moved per month but subject always to a minimum of 4 fighter daitai and 8 bomber daitai. This does not prevent air operations from Kwangtung to China.
- If the Japanese player decides to invade the Soviet Union, he must invade Soviet territory in an unoccupied hex to activate and may then only begin offensive operations a week later (to reflect the excellent intelligence assets the Soviets had in the Japanese government which would preclude strategic surprise).
- Once the Soviets are activated, no Japanese unit in Kwantung may get an HQ reassignment, except isolated units can be evacuated by sea.

DUTCH EAST INDIES
- Dutch air units cannot be disbanded nor can they be withdrawn.
- Dutch surface vessels may operate in Indian Ocean waters or between Australia and New Guinea, but not the Pacific.
- Dutch submarines can only operate between the South China Sea and northern Australia (i.e. off Malaya, Sumatra, Java, Borneo, Celebes and Timor)
- Garrison requirements must be observed by the Allied player
- No strategic bombing in the DEI until 1944
- IJA units need a minimum of 25 planning points to amphibiously land at/parachute into an enemy-held DEI base (not needed for IJN units)

PHILIPPINES
- All US units in the Philippines must have replacements OFF
- Allied air units in the Philippines may not receive replacement aircraft other than by disbanding other Philippine-based air units into those units
- Philippine-based air units may not be disbanded or withdrawn in a manner that would result in the transfer of aircraft or the pilots back into the aircraft or pilot pools; if the unit is withdrawn, the Allied pilot must answer “NO” to the reform unit in x days question
- Manila is an open city; as such the Allied player may not build additional fortifications and must retreat from the city once the Japanese reaches the city; the Japanese player can only take Manila as part of a general advance (of at least two divisions strength) from the north, south or east of Luzon. Once Japan has conquered all of Luzon, Manila is no longer an open city
- There is no restriction on the Allied player using surface or air transport at any time to move supplies or troops in or out of the Philippines
- Submarine transport missions by the Allied player may only be used to resupply and evacuate cut-off or isolated Allied units, or Bataan (once the Allied players have retreated there)

AUSTRALIA
- The Japanese player may only invade Australia once Timor, Ambon, Kendari, Mindanao, Batavia and Soerabaja are in Japanese hands and once he has saved a reserve of 3000 political points. These political points should be kept in reserve until (1) the capture of all ports in northern Australia (Port Hedland; Broome; Derby; Wyndham; Darwin) or (2) the capture of Perth, or Sydney, or Brisbane
- IJA units invading Australia need a minimum of 80 preparation points (not needed for IJN units)
- If Australia is invaded, the Allied player may not spend PPs on anything except sending forces to Australia by any means or medium, whether land or air force (with the exception of reassigning leaders)
- Australian CMF units may only operate in Australia and Papua New Guinea

INDIA AND CEYLON
- No Restricted Allied unit in India may change its command area until 1 January 1943. PPs need to be paid in order for units to leave India (this is to reflect the large number of British troops required in India to suppress the “Quit India” movement as well as the Indian National Army guerrilla activities).
- If Japanese forces cross the border into India, British and Commonwealth units may only spend political points to send reinforcement units to India
- The Japanese player will need a reserve of 4000 political points in order to invade India; this must be maintained until the capture of Calcutta, Bombay, Colombo or Trincomalee
- Any IJA units invading India or Ceylon must have at least 80 preparation points

THAILAND
- Thai ground forces may invade Burma but are limited to east of the Salween river (i.e. the only bases it includes are Mergui, Victoria Point and Moulmein)
- US ground forces may not enter Thailand, but US air forces are able to bomb Thailand (the USA never declared war on Thailand)

ROYAL NAVY
- Until September 1942 no RN capital ships (CV, CVL, BB or BC) may operate in the Pacific (except for repairs, transit to ports in the US and return from them)
- From 1 January 1943 a single capital ship may operate in the Pacific (as was the case with HMS Victorious in the Solomon's campaign)
- From 1 January 1945 the Royal Navy may operate freely in the Pacific (once assigned to the Pacific Fleet under US command)

[Panjack]

Richard III: Thanks for posting this.

[Bullwinkle58]

I've seen companies change hands with fewer rules.

Just . . . wow.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

I've seen companies change hands with fewer rules.

Just . . . wow.

Concur. That's not for me.

[mike scholl 1]

ORIGINAL: Icedawg
For example, we don't allow bombing of light industry. Without that rule, it would be lights out and game over in China. The only supply he'd be getting would be the inherent "free" supply at various bases. In addition, we have a host of rules regulating first turn moves by the Japanese player. Without this rule, I could have landed at crazy places all over the map on Dec 7th. Only one CV port strike was allowed, so I couldn't hit both Pearl and Manila on turn one. We also limited paradrops such that you can't go dropping unlimited numbers of fragments all over the place to seize empty bases. All of these clearly favor the allies, not the Japanese.

Actually "Dawg", these rules favor reality over nonsense!

[Panjack]

I find the list helpful, not because I would ever intended to impose such rules but because many rules point to issues that beginner players (which I consider myself) might not be aware of. I don't know enough about the details of the war in the pacific to know what is "realistic" or not in WITP-AE. While I don't know yet if I'm in favor of a somewhat historical sort of game play, or not, these proposed rules will help me better understand the game. While I understand some expert players might think even talking about these things is silly, I must (from the perspective of a beginner) respectfully disagree.

[Amoral]

I think there are three house rules that are pretty universal:

1. That Japan must attack the perimeter of allied defense, no making deep moves on the first turn
2. That the Allied player is not allowed to scatter all his ships out of port without reason on the first turn
3. That restricted units may not cross a national border without having their command changed by paying the full PP cost for that unit.

[dr.hal]

WOW, good list!