Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

[jeffk3510]

Fixed for historical accuracy.

BTW I didn't buy the Complete Total War series when it was 75% off...I bought it at 50% off and that I was doing great. Woke up this morning, and for the last day it is offered at 75% off...[8|]

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: jeffk3510

Fixed for historical accuracy.

BTW I didn't buy the Complete Total War series when it was 75% off...I bought it at 50% off and that I was doing great. Woke up this morning, and for the last day it is offered at 75% off...[8|]

I know. I've been watching the Fallout: New Vegas prices the whole sale. I already have it, but I paid $34. The base game got down to $2.49. Today I think the whole thing, with all DLC, is under $12. ANYONE READING THIS--BUY THIS GAME!!! Three hours to go I think.

[Lomri]

Pretty sure Kanga Force isn't para capable but I don't have the game open to double check. The way to tell is if you click the display LCU button you'll see para capable units listed as INFp (instead of just INF) much like HQ's have a for air and n for naval. The LCU symbol also indicates para capabilities with the dashes under the infantry X. ToE doesn't actually play a role in whether a unit can be para dropped.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Lomri


Pretty sure Kanga Force isn't para capable but I don't have the game open to double check. The way to tell is if you click the display LCU button you'll see para capable units listed as INFp (instead of just INF) much like HQ's have a for air and n for naval. The LCU symbol also indicates para capabilities with the dashes under the infantry X. ToE doesn't actually play a role in whether a unit can be para dropped.

I somewhat remember the INFp being added in a patch. Also, Tracker lists parachute capable units, and Kanga isn't. The TOE wording is confusing (CDO/para) but it's old. Maybe pre-dates AE and sub-transport at least was different in WITP.

I'm also learning what can move by SST. I know Marine Raiders can. I haven't tried any CDO/para.

And I'm trying to figure out what planes can drop and/or move what LCUs. I know patrol planes can move troops to friendly bases, but it seems they can also drop parachutists (true parachutists.)

[Bullwinkle58]

June 26, 1942

Who Was That xAP I saw You With Last Night?

1) Ah, AE's search routines. So much fun. So much lying. [:)]

Yesterday I saw a TF moving up the west coast of Sumatra. It had a pretty nice escort of CLs to TBs, and an xAP. I figured it was either coming to collect the base force sitting at Benkoelen, bring it supplies, or bring a Naval Guard or SNLF to stiffen it up. The TF with BBs and at least Kaga was sitting offshore about two hexes interdicting the approaches to Benkoelen. Fine.

I had a small DD TF up north on the coast dodging Vals. I decided to send it in to harass, and to take its chances dodging the air wing. This is what it found at Benkoelen. Later it escapes scot-free. Not even a bunch of Magic Mavis can hit it.





The battle was one-sided, but not decisive. About 50-60% of a division got ashore and took Benkoelen.

Night Time Surface Combat, near Benkoelen at 45,91, Range 11,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CL Isuzu, Shell hits 4
CL Yura
DD Harukaze, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Matsukaze
xAP Tatsuta Maru, Shell hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
xAP Katori Maru
xAP Kokuryu Maru, Shell hits 3, on fire
xAP Kamo Maru
xAP Kobe Maru, Shell hits 1, on fire
xAP Teikyo Maru

Allied Ships
DD Hammann
DD Russell
DD O'Brien

Japanese ground losses:
34 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Ground combat at Benkoelen (45,91)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 5972 troops, 124 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 284

Defending force 3561 troops, 87 guns, 48 vehicles, Assault Value = 80

Japanese adjusted assault: 267

Allied adjusted defense: 19

Japanese assault odds: 14 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), disruption(-), preparation(-)
fatigue(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
151 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 14 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 1 (1 destroyed, 0 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
914 casualties reported
Squads: 42 destroyed, 5 disabled
Non Combat: 74 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 6 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 15 (8 destroyed, 7 disabled)
Vehicles lost 9 (8 destroyed, 1 disabled)
Units retreated 1

Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
53rd Division
47th Naval Guard Unit

Defending units:
22nd (East African) Brigade
-----------------------

The 22nd is gutted. It will move back to PBang, getting bombed the whole way no doubt.

So. Now I have a different set of options for the 32nd. Remember that what's on the water is just the infantry squads, about 215 of them. Everything else is already at PBang.

1) Go to DG, unload, combat load.

2) Swing south, then NE and run at Oosthaven, taking massive damage and possibly losing the force plus escorts. Or, try this after hiding out the west hoping the BB/Kaga TF leaves. Problem is the LBA enviro on Sumatra is terrible already and will get worse.

3) Land them on Java. They could get ashore on the west coast most likely and train to Soerbaja for a couple more days. Maybe.

4) Take them to Colombo, wait for the heavy gear to be destroyed at PBang (maybe months, maybe weeks) then re-build as a theater reserve.

5) Move them to CT, to the Canal, and into the Pacific, without their gear.

6) Try to thread several needles and take them to Rabaul

7) ??

2) Japanese LBA all over the place is massive. Lose over 400 men in the Chengtu stack, another 400-600 in the Pegu-bound stack. The 22nd at Benkoelen is also hard hit. I do not have fighters to use. It's a matter of just take it. Getting really old. He does take AA losses sometimes, and the loss ratio is 3327 his to 2698 mine.

3) Three B-17 do a night AF raid on Balikpapan. Take out one Betty.

4) Light Resource bombing in China.

5) He sends a TF up to Pt. Blair. It sinks the lone ASW asset in the harbor, but doe snot bombard. Not sure if this is a test for TBs, a bombardment waiting for me to move into Pegu's hex, or what.

Day Time Surface Combat, near Port Blair at 46,58, Range 20,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Haruna
CL Naka
CL Natori
CL Kuma
CL Tama
DMS W-3
DMS W-5
DMS W-11
DD Tatsuyuke

Allied Ships
PG Hindustan, Shell hits 9, and is sunk

6) Continued moves into Eniwetok. Makin gets more troops and a bit of transported supply. There could be a fight at Eniwetok if his Kwajalein reaction force keeps coming.

7) SST lands troops at Tarawa where a construction unit labors alone. This one and the next should alert him that something new is up.

Ground combat at Tarawa (136,128)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 125 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 17

Defending force 888 troops, 6 guns, 3 vehicles, Assault Value = 1

Allied adjusted assault: 3

Japanese adjusted defense: 9

Allied assault odds: 1 to 3 (fort level 0)

Combat modifiers
Defender: leaders(-), preparation(-), fatigue(-), experience(-)
Attacker: op mode(-), shock(+), leaders(-), fatigue(-)

Japanese ground losses:
43 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 3 destroyed, 3 disabled

Assaulting units:
3rd Marine Raider Bn /2

Defending units:
17th Naval Construction Battalion

8) SST work again.

Amphibious Assault at Hollandia (93,116)

TF 437 troops unloading over beach at Hollandia, 93,116

[Justus2]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: Lomri


Pretty sure Kanga Force isn't para capable but I don't have the game open to double check. The way to tell is if you click the display LCU button you'll see para capable units listed as INFp (instead of just INF) much like HQ's have a for air and n for naval. The LCU symbol also indicates para capabilities with the dashes under the infantry X. ToE doesn't actually play a role in whether a unit can be para dropped.

I somewhat remember the INFp being added in a patch. Also, Tracker lists parachute capable units, and Kanga isn't. The TOE wording is confusing (CDO/para) but it's old. Maybe pre-dates AE and sub-transport at least was different in WITP.

I'm also learning what can move by SST. I know Marine Raiders can. I haven't tried any CDO/para.

And I'm trying to figure out what planes can drop and/or move what LCUs. I know patrol planes can move troops to friendly bases, but it seems they can also drop parachutists (true parachutists.)

IIRC patrol planes can carry/drop para units, but only to their 'normal' mission range (ie. 16 hexes for PBY), not half of the transfer range (28 hexes) as they can when conducting troop transfers to friendly bases.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Justus2

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: Lomri


Pretty sure Kanga Force isn't para capable but I don't have the game open to double check. The way to tell is if you click the display LCU button you'll see para capable units listed as INFp (instead of just INF) much like HQ's have a for air and n for naval. The LCU symbol also indicates para capabilities with the dashes under the infantry X. ToE doesn't actually play a role in whether a unit can be para dropped.

I somewhat remember the INFp being added in a patch. Also, Tracker lists parachute capable units, and Kanga isn't. The TOE wording is confusing (CDO/para) but it's old. Maybe pre-dates AE and sub-transport at least was different in WITP.

I'm also learning what can move by SST. I know Marine Raiders can. I haven't tried any CDO/para.

And I'm trying to figure out what planes can drop and/or move what LCUs. I know patrol planes can move troops to friendly bases, but it seems they can also drop parachutists (true parachutists.)

IIRC patrol planes can carry/drop para units, but only to their 'normal' mission range (ie. 16 hexes for PBY), not half of the transfer range (28 hexes) as they can when conducting troop transfers to friendly bases.

Yeah, I've seen that. Well inside the patrol unit's range ring and you get the text message that the target is too far.

[witpqs]

The TOE wording is confusing (CDO/para) but it's old.

That's just the name of the 'device', in this case a squad type of device.

Para capable is applied to a unit. Then, when actually parachute dropping, the (I think it is) load factor of the device is consulted to see if it is below the threshold to allow it to drop.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

The TOE wording is confusing (CDO/para) but it's old.

That's just the name of the 'device', in this case a squad type of device.

Right, but wouldn't you agree it would be a LOT less confusing to just drop the "para" portion? I know sorta what a commando-type unit is for. But when I see "para" I think "parachutes."

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: witpqs

The TOE wording is confusing (CDO/para) but it's old.

That's just the name of the 'device', in this case a squad type of device.

Right, but wouldn't you agree it would be a LOT less confusing to just drop the "para" portion? I know sorta what a commando-type unit is for. But when I see "para" I think "parachutes."

There should be a few differences in how a para capable device is handled, too (like having a flag=Y/N for parachute capable instead of a size check, although a size check might apply to the size carrying ability of the aircraft asked to carry the device). The developers know that, but they inherited the issue.

As far as the name goes, they are trying to be somewhat accurate and helpful about naming the squads. That squad type can para drop, but it has to be in a unit that allows it. If you notice in the later Betas (not sure when added) there is a 'parachute' indicator somewhere in (I think) the upper left of the LCU display. That's in addition to the 'p' in INFp on the LCU listing.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: witpqs


That's just the name of the 'device', in this case a squad type of device.

Right, but wouldn't you agree it would be a LOT less confusing to just drop the "para" portion? I know sorta what a commando-type unit is for. But when I see "para" I think "parachutes."

There should be a few differences in how a para capable device is handled, too (like having a flag=Y/N for parachute capable instead of a size check, although a size check might apply to the size carrying ability of the aircraft asked to carry the device). The developers know that, but they inherited the issue.

As far as the name goes, they are trying to be somewhat accurate and helpful about naming the squads. That squad type can para drop, but it has to be in a unit that allows it. If you notice in the later Betas (not sure when added) there is a 'parachute' indicator somewhere in (I think) the upper left of the LCU display. That's in addition to the 'p' in INFp on the LCU listing.

I never noticed that. I'll look at Kanga.

Is that device used in the later war for para-capable (true) Aussie units? It's been so long since I was out of 1942 I don't recall any.

[witpqs]

Is that device used in the later war for para-capable (true) Aussie units? It's been so long since I was out of 1942 I don't recall any.

What mod are you playing again? In Babes the answer is yes. I just don't remember about stock.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Is that device used in the later war for para-capable (true) Aussie units? It's been so long since I was out of 1942 I don't recall any.

What mod are you playing again? In Babes the answer is yes. I just don't remember about stock.

Stock #2.

Makes a lot more sense if there are later war chute-capable Aussies.

[BBfanboy]

Option 7 for 32nd ID - a high speed run to Singapore and take it back! Destroy many planes on the field. Build forts! Drive your opponent nuts!

Also, could you explain about this line:

Bullwinkle58

It sinks the lone ASW asset in the harbor, but doe snot bombard.

Is doe snot some kind of Japanese secret weapon? And what's wrong with stag snot? [&:]

[witpqs]

The scent on doe snot drives the bucks crazy.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Option 7 for 32nd ID - a high speed run to Singapore and take it back! Destroy many planes on the field. Build forts! Drive your opponent nuts!

Also, could you explain about this line:

Bullwinkle58

It sinks the lone ASW asset in the harbor, but doe snot bombard.

Is doe snot some kind of Japanese secret weapon? And what's wrong with stag snot? [&:]

I've had a long afternoon with looking at trust documents and talking to lawyers. So this made me laugh pretty hard. I'm of an age wherein boys did not learn to type. I took NJROTC instead. [:)]

Singers is a great idea, except for the 9000 planes there and probably 8-10 IDs.

[Lomri]

I use a lot more para-drops than SSTs mostly because I forgot to convert all but Argonaut! That being said I've used an SST to transport bits of even BFs. I think it is just a matter of device size. My guess (and sounds like from your experience this is accurate) is that the sub transport mission doesn't care if it is an amph landing on an enemy base or if there is a friendly pier.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Lomri

I use a lot more para-drops than SSTs mostly because I forgot to convert all but Argonaut! That being said I've used an SST to transport bits of even BFs. I think it is just a matter of device size. My guess (and sounds like from your experience this is accurate) is that the sub transport mission doesn't care if it is an amph landing on an enemy base or if there is a friendly pier.

I haven't used SSTs to land at a non-base hex yet, but it's on the menu. I did one regular Amphib landing on an open hex as part of FUDD (near Bassein.) Those work like they always did. They have uses, but also big unload speed and supply negatives.

If you are past where you can change to SSTs I believe the other two SST-eligible subs can carry the Big Mines starting in 1943. The Mk 13 maybe? Real ship killers. I wasn't going to do the SST conversions for this reason, but RockyRoo argued that the SSTs are real force multipliers and now I agree with him wholeheartedly. They can harass and poke and jab quite well behind the lines. The Marine Raiders have withdraw dates, but until then they are perfect fragment harassers.

[Bullwinkle58]

June 27, 1942

SNAGLEPUSS Rolls On

Busy, busy.

1) The Japanese TF that dumped an ID at Benkoelen withdraws north up the coast. The small DD TF that worked it over while unloading goes back in with partial magazines and finds this.

Night Time Surface Combat, near Pagai-eilanden at 44,88, Range 26,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CL Isuzu
CL Yura
DD Harukaze
DD Matsukaze
xAP Tatsuta Maru, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAP Katori Maru
xAP Kamo Maru
xAP Kobe Maru
xAP Teikyo Maru

Allied Ships
DD Hammann
DD Russell
DD O'Brien

The TFs disengage. Three more times this happens all during the night and day and the Japanese run hard, not good I'm sure for xAP Tatsuta Maru. This ship is absent in engagements 3 and 4. FWIW, on the first attack at night the Allies got radar lock at 20,000 yds, but the Japanese did not sight them until 8000. The Allies crossed the T.

2) Off of Benkoelen another heart-stopper that does not pay off, but which gives priceless intel.

Sub attack near Benkoelen at 43,91

Japanese Ships
CV Akagi
CS Nisshin
DD Oshio
DD Inazuma

Allied Ships
SS Grunion

SS Grunion launches 6 torpedoes at CV Akagi
Grunion diving deep ....

At the start of the next turn the seas off Benkoelen are empty of red icons. Float planes were seen at Oosthaven overnight, which might have been a Sunda transit. I orbited the 32nd ID TF , edging south, but fuel is a concern. Cocos I. has plenty, but is a little too exposed if Akagi is around. OTOH, Cocos has some teeth. I'm about 80% decided on forcing the issue at Oosthaven before Java becomes untenable and LBA infested. With the full 32nd at PBang it's a very tough nut. Elements at least of two IJA IDs are now at Benkoelen and will march to cut the railway south of Pbang within days. I don't have a lot of time if Oosthaven is the landing.

3) Near Eniwetok the USN takes a bite.

Night Time Surface Combat, near Eniwetok at 127,109, Range 8,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Hyuga, Shell hits 4
DD Kuroshio
DD Oyashio
DD Yukikaze
DD Yamagumo
DD Shigure
DD Umikaze, Shell hits 1
DD Suzukaze
DD Nenohi
DD Okikaze
DD Shiokaze
DD Hokaze
TB Kiji
TB Kamo
DD Tawakaze, Shell hits 1

Allied Ships
DD Phelps
DD Worden, Shell hits 2

This TF "seems" to have no air cover; pretty bold. A "CVE" was seen yesterday heading into Kwaj. Possibly delivering Zeros. The BB/DDs I think came from Truk. Radio intercepts there three days ago, and recon says there are over 60 ships at Truk. But more and more I thinik the KB ex-Akagi and Kaga is in upgrade.

4) The TF above proceeds to bombard Eniwetok, but not one Marine is killed. And the supply pile is tiny, only what the Cats have brought in.

Night Naval bombardment of Eniwetok at 127,108

Japanese Ships
BB Hyuga
DD Tawakaze
DD Hokaze
DD Shiokaze
DD Okikaze
DD Nenohi
DD Suzukaze
DD Umikaze
DD Shigure
DD Yamagumo
DD Yukikaze
DD Oyashio
DD Kuroshio
TB Kamo
TB Kiji

Airbase hits 7
Airbase supply hits 4
Runway hits 36
Port hits 12
Port supply hits 8


This is the region set-up at the start of tomorrow's turn.




5) SNAGGLEPUSS ground developments:

--Hollandia is occupied by the Allies (SST-borne Kangas)

--Ground combat at Bikini (131,110)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 50 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1

Defending force 0 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 0

Allied adjusted assault: 2

Japanese adjusted defense: 1

Allied assault odds: 2 to 1 (fort level 0)

Allied forces CAPTURE Bikini !!!

Combat modifiers
Attacker: shock(+), leaders(-)

Assaulting units:
1st USMC Parachute Bn /1

--Ground combat at Tarawa (136,128)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 125 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 17

Defending force 1151 troops, 15 guns, 3 vehicles, Assault Value = 19

Allied adjusted assault: 0

Japanese adjusted defense: 14

Allied assault odds: 1 to 99 (fort level 0)

Combat modifiers
Defender: preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker: leaders(-), disruption(-), supply(-)

Allied ground losses:
121 casualties reported
Squads: 8 destroyed, 12 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
3rd Marine Raider Bn /2

Defending units:
44th Nav Gd /1
17th Naval Construction Battalion

--Ground combat at Abemama (136,130)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 75 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 7

Defending force 888 troops, 6 guns, 3 vehicles, Assault Value = 1

Allied adjusted assault: 0

Japanese adjusted defense: 11

Allied assault odds: 1 to 99 (fort level 0)

Combat modifiers
Defender: leaders(+), experience(-)
Attacker: op mode(-), shock(+), leaders(-), supply(-)

Allied ground losses:
12 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
3rd Marine Raider Bn /3

Defending units:
12th Naval Construction Battalion

6) At a mined Pt. Blair (about 100 mines) the BB/CL/DMS TF hangs around. 36 mines are cleared before the CL gets careless. If this is a pre-landing move it's OK. It will take more than a single ID to take Pt. Blair from the 6th Aussie Div. and Forts 4.5.

TF 276 encounters mine field at Port Blair (46,58)

Japanese Ships
DMS W-11
DMS W-5
DMS W-3
CL Naka, Mine hits 1

7) The insane level of IJA air attacks on troops and AFs continues. Results are far lower than yesterday, again possibly due to fatigue. In summary, all over the map, 2 Bombers are destroyed and 57 damaged, 3 Japanese fighters destroyed. 587 Allied troops are casualties. Almost all aircraft damage is from AA. CAP is virtually non-existent now.

8) In the single Allied strat bombing mission a message is sent by a night attack on Port Arthur. Only three Liberators, and no damage. This time.

9) Following some good advice here, the Allies hand-picked some Naval Bombing pilots for selected DEI air units. Most had 5-7 day delays in reporting, but some have now arrived. And they do make a difference.

Morning Air attack on TF, near Loemadjang at 56,106

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid spotted at 11 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 8

Allied aircraft
Beaufort V x 7

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Beaufort V: 3 damaged

Japanese Ships
xAK Uga Maru, Bomb hits 1
DD Mochizuki, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x Beaufort V bombing from 100 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 lb SAP Bomb

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Loemadjang at 56,106

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid spotted at 11 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 7

Allied aircraft
Beaufort V x 4

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Beaufort V: 2 damaged

Japanese Ships
xAK Unyo Maru, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: Justus2

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: Lomri


Pretty sure Kanga Force isn't para capable but I don't have the game open to double check. The way to tell is if you click the display LCU button you'll see para capable units listed as INFp (instead of just INF) much like HQ's have a for air and n for naval. The LCU symbol also indicates para capabilities with the dashes under the infantry X. ToE doesn't actually play a role in whether a unit can be para dropped.

I somewhat remember the INFp being added in a patch. Also, Tracker lists parachute capable units, and Kanga isn't. The TOE wording is confusing (CDO/para) but it's old. Maybe pre-dates AE and sub-transport at least was different in WITP.

I'm also learning what can move by SST. I know Marine Raiders can. I haven't tried any CDO/para.

And I'm trying to figure out what planes can drop and/or move what LCUs. I know patrol planes can move troops to friendly bases, but it seems they can also drop parachutists (true parachutists.)

IIRC patrol planes can carry/drop para units, but only to their 'normal' mission range (ie. 16 hexes for PBY), not half of the transfer range (28 hexes) as they can when conducting troop transfers to friendly bases.

1. SSTs can move anything that fits provided it is in "move" mode. The exception is a paradrop capable unit which can be carried in "combat" mode and thus completely ready to go into action upon landing.

2. Patrol planes are just like dedicated transport planes when it comes to airlifting troops and supplies. Section 7.2.4 of the manual gives the exact details of available ranges for the different type of activity.

Alfred