Skyros(J) vs AUTiger(A). No AUTiger

[Skyros]

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I hope to keep up an aar, but it might be sporadic. I want to start off with a question, is attacking the west coast with the KB on Dec 7th considered gamey or completely un historical?

My reasoning is the damage I may do to his transports and cargo ships will delay his ability to reinforce other theaters. I know the game allows the move, but i was unable to find any commentary saying it was gamey or technically not possible. We have few HRs and I don't want to step out of bounds at the game start.

[witpqs]

Impossible. The 'magic move' bonus that some TFs get on the Dec 7th turn will only take it as far as Hawaii. Do some experiments in an AI game (just changing the one TF with 'remain on station' set) to see for yourself how far it can go.

[Skyros]

I did and I was able to move within one hex of San Fran. I did remove kaga from the fleet.

[Cpt Sherwood]

You mean like this impossible, from scenario 1 test.

Morning Air attack on San Francisco , at 218,70

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 94 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 35 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 28
B5N2 Kate x 54
D3A1 Val x 42

Allied aircraft
P-40B Warhawk x 26
P-40E Warhawk x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 4 destroyed
B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
D3A1 Val: 1 destroyed, 6 damaged
D3A1 Val: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
P-40B Warhawk: 3 destroyed

Allied Ships
SS Cuttlefish, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage
xAK Shooting Star, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AE Lassen, Bomb hits 1
xAP Etolin, Bomb hits 1
AP President Polk, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Sands, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
SS S-27, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage
DD Humphreys, Bomb hits 1
xAP Santa Barbara, Bomb hits 1, on fire
xAK Walter Luckenbach, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
SS Nautilus, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
AP Henry T. Allen, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
xAK Steel Seafarer, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AG Aldebaran, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires
SS S-28, Bomb hits 1
xAP President Tyler, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Kaskaskia, Bomb hits 1
DD Smith, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires

Allied ground losses:
16 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Repair Shipyard hits 6
Port hits 6

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
27 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 9000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
5 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
City Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
26 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 9000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
5 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
City Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
3 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
City Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
3 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
7 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
City Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
20th PG/55th PS with P-40B Warhawk (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 13 scrambling)
10 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 14000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 74 minutes
2 planes vectored on to bombers
20th PG/79th PS with P-40B Warhawk (2 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 48 minutes
20th PG/HqS with P-40B Warhawk (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 4 minutes
35th PG/HqS with P-40E Warhawk (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 73 minutes



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Morning Air attack on San Diego , at 227,78

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 37 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 28
B5N2 Kate x 36
D3A1 Val x 34

Allied aircraft
P-38E Lightning x 1
P-40B Warhawk x 2
P-40E Warhawk x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A1 Val: 4 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-40B Warhawk: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
CV Saratoga, Bomb hits 8, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Dent, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
PC Kimball, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
AVD Ballard, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
CL Concord, Bomb hits 1, on fire
xAP Santa Maria, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Kennison, Bomb hits 1, on fire
xAK Charles H Cramp, Bomb hits 1, on fire
SS Grayling, Bomb hits 1

Allied ground losses:
4 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Repair Shipyard hits 2
Port hits 1
Port supply hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
City Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
18 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 9000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
9 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
18 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 9000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
8 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
1 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
City Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
51st PG/16th PS with P-40E Warhawk (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(1 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 46 minutes
14th PG/48th PS with P-38E Lightning (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(1 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 10000
Raid is overhead
14th PG/50th PS with P-40B Warhawk (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(1 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000
Raid is overhead
14th PG/HqS with P-40B Warhawk (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(1 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 3 minutes



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Morning Air attack on Seattle , at 212,52

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 35 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 28
B5N2 Kate x 54
D3A1 Val x 50

Allied aircraft
P-39D Airacobra x 6
P-43 Lancer x 13

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed
D3A1 Val: 2 destroyed, 2 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-43 Lancer: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
BB Colorado, Bomb hits 20, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Warspite, Bomb hits 25, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Hatfield, Bomb hits 2
DD Kane, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
TK William H. Berg, Bomb hits 1, on fire
xAK Panaman, Bomb hits 1, on fire
xAK Susan Luckenbach, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Gulfking, Bomb hits 1
PG Charleston, Bomb hits 1
TK Esso Durban, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Allied ground losses:
10 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Port hits 7
Port fuel hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000' *
Port Attack: 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb
26 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 9000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
8 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000' *
Port Attack: 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb
27 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 9000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
3 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000' *
Port Attack: 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb
10 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000' *
Port Attack: 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb
11 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000' *
Port Attack: 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb
7 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000' *
Port Attack: 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
54th PG/57th PS with P-39D Airacobra (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters to 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 6 minutes
54th PG/HqS with P-39D Airacobra (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 2 minutes
55th PG/37th PS with P-43 Lancer (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 13 scrambling)
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters to 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 60 minutes
3 planes vectored on to bombers

[Skyros]

Exactly !

[witpqs]

Wow! I never tried it myself, it was said by the devs that the magic move only allowed it to go so far, that being the vicinity of Hawaii. I wonder if that is a bug in the current version? You might post that in tech support for Michael to see.

[ny59giants]

If you are playing a non-historical first turn, then I say go for it. I wish somebody would do this to me as Allies. My response and the month of December '41 would be interesting!!

I would send MichaelM a private PM rather than post in Tech Support.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

If you are playing a non-historical first turn, then I say go for it.
....

I would send MichaelM a private PM rather than post in Tech Support.

+1

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Wow! I never tried it myself, it was said by the devs that the magic move only allowed it to go so far, that being the vicinity of Hawaii. I wonder if that is a bug in the current version? You might post that in tech support for Michael to see.

No no no no no....[:-] You don't get to assume that the code is working fine for everything ELSE in the game (no need for HRs, for goodness sake) and not this. If you're playing with HRs and looking for a historically minded game, that's one thing. If you're both assuming that everything is fine and balanced, then that includes any 'errors' with the magic move.

Which is your style, Skyros?

[Canoerebel]

No way I would consider doing this in a game. Way, way non kosher. Okay, maybe in a wet dream fantasyland it might possibly have been possible for the Japanese to launch a surprise attack vs. Seattle (I don't know the level of traffic coming out of those big ports in 12/42, but I could be persuaded it was light). But San Fran or - give me a break! - San Diego? No way. If I had an opponent launch a surprise attack on San Diego on day one (sinking or badly damaging Saratoga in the process), I'd just end the game right there.

[Cpt Sherwood]

I am not advocating this type of move, I just wanted to see how far I could go in that direction. I would be a bit put out if the IJN bombed San Diego on turn 1.

[Skyros]

I will pass on this option since we did not agree on a wild wild west kinda of game. I will PM michaelm to see if this is a bug in the code.

Thanks for your feed back.

[Skyros]

Well I received a response from Michaelm and he thinks its working as designed. Still I think you are correct that the KB would be discovered and trigger a response.

[fodder]

[X(] Interesting, VERY interesting. This opens up a huge kettle of fish.

Like witpqs, I didn't think the Japanese could move east of Hawaii on first turn.

[Skyros]

I have submitted the first turn, Pretty standard first turn with a focus on Sealing off PI and inroads on DEI. Will post PH combat returns and other items of interest. Took me over 6 hours to do the turn. I used Damiens guide and other tid bits from the forum, thank you Mike Solli.

[Skyros]

Here is the combat report. Pretty avg for a Jap first turn. The attack on Iba was costly, got to preserve those Navy pilots.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: fodder

[X(] Interesting, VERY interesting. This opens up a huge kettle of fish.

Like witpqs, I didn't think the Japanese could move east of Hawaii on first turn.

Party Poopers!!!

[:D][:D][:D]