An apparent masocist, Mike B20 has opted to be on the sharp end of the Co-Prosperty Sphere again vs me as Uncle Yamoto.
ver 3.2 Rising sun - A for PBEM scenario, usual technical house rules.
The afternoon of 7 December in Pearl Harbour finds an estimated 4 BBs sunk, 4 severley crippled, some damage to DDs and CAs. 100+ aircraft lie smouldering. Across the Pacific, the Renown goes down, guns blazing uselessly at hordes of G3M.
On the downside for His Imperial Majesties forces, there has been no great lunge down New Guinea nor a serious attempt to cut of the links between the USA and Australia. The Malay pensisular is slowly being seized, but there appears to be some rash moves in China. As usual the Army fail to follow the Navy's blazing lead.
Day of Infamy (Again)
Day of Infamy (Again)
Sometimes, when you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things,you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it. - Winnie the Pooh
Impressive ...
Not easy is to kill 4 battleships at once in single raid ...
Althrough they're sh... eee ... of somewhat older type, but they still deserve some respect.
Later it is nice to use them as mobile artillery.
Don't give up Mike !
I've been through this. It makes killing Japs later even more fantastic feeling !
Life is bitter but revenge sweet !
Althrough they're sh... eee ... of somewhat older type, but they still deserve some respect.
Later it is nice to use them as mobile artillery.
Don't give up Mike !
I've been through this. It makes killing Japs later even more fantastic feeling !
Life is bitter but revenge sweet !
the more You play - the less You understand ... :p
IJN - Spirit of Tsushima Lives On
Aggressive use of heavy forces of the IJN continued to cause problems for Allied navies. In four seperate surface actions, 5 DD and 3 CL were sunk with loss of one IJN CA. 70 hits were also scored on four other allied cruisers, leaving a trail of limping ships across the Pacific. IJN command are convinced that one heavy crusier foce came very close to engaging a US CV in a surface battle...
Less positively, the army continues to under-perform, tactical errors reducing the success of amphibious landings. Both IJN and IJAAF aircraft are failing to locate and atack numerous allied convoys active in the south, and IJN subs have been equally feeble.
But still the big question is, as ever, where are the mighty carriers?
Less positively, the army continues to under-perform, tactical errors reducing the success of amphibious landings. Both IJN and IJAAF aircraft are failing to locate and atack numerous allied convoys active in the south, and IJN subs have been equally feeble.
But still the big question is, as ever, where are the mighty carriers?
Sometimes, when you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things,you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it. - Winnie the Pooh
-
Capt. Harlock
- Posts: 5379
- Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2001 8:00 am
- Location: Los Angeles
- Contact:
Spirit of Tsushima? It sounds a bit more like the Battle of the Java Sea. And compared with that debacle, the Allies are doing well: the Japanese didn't lose any warships historically.
Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?
--Victor Hugo
--Victor Hugo
Indeed - I was propagandarising (sic) and not wearing my historical knowledge on my sleeve.
However I hope that my so far reasonable guesses at where Mike is reinforcing/retreating to, and my again lucky guesses/good planning to use minimum force needed, is keeping him on his toes and increase possibilites of several more such encounters and results across the map. Better four half Java Sea's than one whole one? And I was thinking that trying to tear up his DD/CL/CA/AP as they run gives him less options and less AA power vs my G3/G4s when trying to make early counter moves?
Anyway, sometime now, one of my punchy CA forces is going to have an unfortunate encouter with some SDBs and no air cover...
However I hope that my so far reasonable guesses at where Mike is reinforcing/retreating to, and my again lucky guesses/good planning to use minimum force needed, is keeping him on his toes and increase possibilites of several more such encounters and results across the map. Better four half Java Sea's than one whole one? And I was thinking that trying to tear up his DD/CL/CA/AP as they run gives him less options and less AA power vs my G3/G4s when trying to make early counter moves?
Anyway, sometime now, one of my punchy CA forces is going to have an unfortunate encouter with some SDBs and no air cover...
Sometimes, when you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things,you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it. - Winnie the Pooh
Yes, I tried a few stalling tactics in the Java sea, hoping to catch a few unescorted transports with CL taskforces but my esteemed opponent had prepared bombardment TF's of CA's(damned Japs should lay off the carrot juice)..it wasn't pretty for the allies.
The Japs lost a few ships around Canton Isl in turn 2.
They planted a strong cruser force there which dissuaded my transports from approaching. His plans there are not certain yet.
Maybe he had hoped to trransport some troops T@ but my fast cruiser TF beat him there only to lose out badly in a night action.
My Halsey carier force showed up and sank a CL and CA.
Waiting for my turn to continue the annihilation of this impudent TF.
I'm, having a few probs with TF's not going anywhere.
One TF of an injured battleship I had directed to US after turn 1 was still sitting at PH turn 2. This has happened quite a bit and may be a bug.
The Japs lost a few ships around Canton Isl in turn 2.
They planted a strong cruser force there which dissuaded my transports from approaching. His plans there are not certain yet.
Maybe he had hoped to trransport some troops T@ but my fast cruiser TF beat him there only to lose out badly in a night action.
My Halsey carier force showed up and sank a CL and CA.
Waiting for my turn to continue the annihilation of this impudent TF.
I'm, having a few probs with TF's not going anywhere.
One TF of an injured battleship I had directed to US after turn 1 was still sitting at PH turn 2. This has happened quite a bit and may be a bug.
Never give up, never surrender
Well luckily I didn't manage to catch his cruiser squadron at Canton Isle...luckily because his cruisers ran to momma, a 6CV TF a few hexes away.
This big fat uninvited guest is now plonked right in the middle of my supply routes to Australia and within reaction move of just about everything in the Pacific. Lightly escorted transport TF's are blithely sailing past this catastrophe waiting to happen.
Hmmm...how to turn crisis into opportunity.
This big fat uninvited guest is now plonked right in the middle of my supply routes to Australia and within reaction move of just about everything in the Pacific. Lightly escorted transport TF's are blithely sailing past this catastrophe waiting to happen.
Hmmm...how to turn crisis into opportunity.
Never give up, never surrender
-
Capt. Harlock
- Posts: 5379
- Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2001 8:00 am
- Location: Los Angeles
- Contact:
Balky TF's
I've encountered problems with TF's not moving on occasion too. It seems to happen more often to the Allies than the Japanese, and more in PBEM games than games against the computer. It may be a "fog of war" feature, but I think more likely it's a bug: it doesn't seem to matter how many preparation points you have.
If a TF at a base refuses to sail, it tends to be stuck there permanently. The cure is to remove the TF entirely, and then re-build it from scratch. TF's at sea need to have their destinations changed, which is even more of a nuisance. It is possible to get the important ships by forming a new TF, transferring the ships in the old TF. Just remember you can't transfer the flagship.
If a TF at a base refuses to sail, it tends to be stuck there permanently. The cure is to remove the TF entirely, and then re-build it from scratch. TF's at sea need to have their destinations changed, which is even more of a nuisance. It is possible to get the important ships by forming a new TF, transferring the ships in the old TF. Just remember you can't transfer the flagship.
Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?
--Victor Hugo
--Victor Hugo
However, you can transfer the flag to another ship in the task force then transfer the former flagship. You will still need to keep a minimum of 1 ship in the old task force, whichever ship you designate as the new flagship.
Also, I've noticed this problem, of task forces not moving, when I try to send too many TFs to the same location, usually a small atoll or small port. It has happened with both IJN and USN.
Also, I've noticed this problem, of task forces not moving, when I try to send too many TFs to the same location, usually a small atoll or small port. It has happened with both IJN and USN.
Warning..
Some of these posts may be of the Tokyo Rose variety as me and Mike spoof each other...
Actually, as we are both, I think, not utter PW grongards, the continued supply advice from veterans would be much appreciated, and may help encourage others trying out this beast.
Any how back to the 'news' of turn 3....
In the push for islands in the South Pacific, I am beginning to feel like the Kriegsmarine off Norway in 1940: I know I am going to get the island I am going for but at what cost? Also wary of over reach and supply problems.
Canton is now mine but only just and at cost; USN very unlucky not to stop the invasion (which had no land based opposition). I broke off 2 BB, 3+ CAS and some DD off a CV task force that stood off the Island, and sent the wagons in to soften up the island and remove the expected opposing CA force. This of course meant that it had I had no leader in the surface TF as it was formed at sea...
And sure enough I paid for that; Mike's TF of four CAs & 9 DD got the jump on me and sank a BB (with torps!) , some DD and badly beat up the rest. To add to humiliation, the IJN never got off a single Long Lance! Despite this the amphib TF snuck in - I assume USN TF was NOT on RoS orders?
Canton useful, but in 3.2 the extra Islands down there reduce the Japanese ability to really cut off that route, though makes it harder to play as you have to 'Cargo' everything to try to make the TFs go round (?).
BUT... the distraction of all these CA forces worked. Adm K. pulled up off Midway with most of the heavies and gave the Marines a rough time before troops landed and took the island.
Other unspotted forces are at sea in NW Pacific , where oh where are they heading..? IJN are of course applying maximum signals security and deception plans.
Overall -
Attempting and failing to break stalemate in China - no change there, no one will fight
Java, Indonesia etc all going down rapidly, as is North New Guinea. Three bases left I recall. Bit of a fight on Ambor Island still happening.
Philippines - Bataan siege just starting, air is pounding them, rest taken bar Cebu.
In all cases, no sign that US tried to evacuate any forces, but equally he had few shipping or air losses after first turn. Revenge filled Dutch airman in Corsairs later?.
Slow march down East of PNG, rabaul etc taken with surrounding Islands. Southern Solomons - got Shortland and Guadelcanal without a fight.
US AP TFs EVERYWHERE - but failing to arrive?
Actually, as we are both, I think, not utter PW grongards, the continued supply advice from veterans would be much appreciated, and may help encourage others trying out this beast.
Any how back to the 'news' of turn 3....
In the push for islands in the South Pacific, I am beginning to feel like the Kriegsmarine off Norway in 1940: I know I am going to get the island I am going for but at what cost? Also wary of over reach and supply problems.
Canton is now mine but only just and at cost; USN very unlucky not to stop the invasion (which had no land based opposition). I broke off 2 BB, 3+ CAS and some DD off a CV task force that stood off the Island, and sent the wagons in to soften up the island and remove the expected opposing CA force. This of course meant that it had I had no leader in the surface TF as it was formed at sea...
And sure enough I paid for that; Mike's TF of four CAs & 9 DD got the jump on me and sank a BB (with torps!) , some DD and badly beat up the rest. To add to humiliation, the IJN never got off a single Long Lance! Despite this the amphib TF snuck in - I assume USN TF was NOT on RoS orders?
Canton useful, but in 3.2 the extra Islands down there reduce the Japanese ability to really cut off that route, though makes it harder to play as you have to 'Cargo' everything to try to make the TFs go round (?).
BUT... the distraction of all these CA forces worked. Adm K. pulled up off Midway with most of the heavies and gave the Marines a rough time before troops landed and took the island.
Other unspotted forces are at sea in NW Pacific , where oh where are they heading..? IJN are of course applying maximum signals security and deception plans.
Overall -
Attempting and failing to break stalemate in China - no change there, no one will fight
Java, Indonesia etc all going down rapidly, as is North New Guinea. Three bases left I recall. Bit of a fight on Ambor Island still happening.
Philippines - Bataan siege just starting, air is pounding them, rest taken bar Cebu.
In all cases, no sign that US tried to evacuate any forces, but equally he had few shipping or air losses after first turn. Revenge filled Dutch airman in Corsairs later?.
Slow march down East of PNG, rabaul etc taken with surrounding Islands. Southern Solomons - got Shortland and Guadelcanal without a fight.
US AP TFs EVERYWHERE - but failing to arrive?
Sometimes, when you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things,you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it. - Winnie the Pooh
Why did Matrix mess with so much of the machine code in this game?
I currently have 21 6000t Japanese Maru transports sitting in my main cruiser squadron.
Also, why did my fleet even bother fighting the battle of Canton Island if after winning it the IJN slow transports calmy sail past (waving to the US cruisers as they do so) before planting their flag on Canton.
In both my moves my transports have refused to approach Canton as surface vessels were there.
Why one rule for the Japanese and another for the allies?
Why did their transports approach, (after their covering force 'withdrew' to bombard Canton after being trounced, Lol) and mine turned away.
The whole point of warships is to control passage in an area of ocean.
How on earth can the allies hold Canton with no garrison there initially and Japanese transports ignoring guarding US warships?
Sorry if I sound annoyed but I'm putting a fair bit of time into this and some things in this version are very frustrating, eg one transport TF in India refuses to move, even disbanding it and reforming didn't work. It currently is serving as target practice for the Jap bombers.
I currently have 21 6000t Japanese Maru transports sitting in my main cruiser squadron.
Also, why did my fleet even bother fighting the battle of Canton Island if after winning it the IJN slow transports calmy sail past (waving to the US cruisers as they do so) before planting their flag on Canton.
In both my moves my transports have refused to approach Canton as surface vessels were there.
Why one rule for the Japanese and another for the allies?
Why did their transports approach, (after their covering force 'withdrew' to bombard Canton after being trounced, Lol) and mine turned away.
The whole point of warships is to control passage in an area of ocean.
How on earth can the allies hold Canton with no garrison there initially and Japanese transports ignoring guarding US warships?
Sorry if I sound annoyed but I'm putting a fair bit of time into this and some things in this version are very frustrating, eg one transport TF in India refuses to move, even disbanding it and reforming didn't work. It currently is serving as target practice for the Jap bombers.
Never give up, never surrender
**** with Canton Mike !
RUN LIKE HELL MIKE !!!
Strawb is not an Artificial Idiot. He'll kick the US navy hardly if allowed to. You maybe should fortify Nassau & Am. Samoa a bit ?
It is going to be his next target.
Scuttle the heavy cruisiers, strenghten Australia, Hawaii, Aleutians and wait for some reinforcements.
Do not send Your carriers to enemy air zones. Until You have more of them, stay out of Betty's range.
Make his front lines long, then surprise him.
Strawb is not an Artificial Idiot. He'll kick the US navy hardly if allowed to. You maybe should fortify Nassau & Am. Samoa a bit ?
It is going to be his next target.
Scuttle the heavy cruisiers, strenghten Australia, Hawaii, Aleutians and wait for some reinforcements.
Do not send Your carriers to enemy air zones. Until You have more of them, stay out of Betty's range.
Make his front lines long, then surprise him.
the more You play - the less You understand ... :p
-
Jeremy Pritchard
- Posts: 575
- Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 8:00 am
- Location: Ontario Canada
Ok, before you attack the game, how about telling us the details of what has happened.
#1. How battered was your Cruiser TF?
Remember, 1 turn is 7 days. The surface battle took place before any of the transports came in. IF (as I think is so) your cruisers were damaged (abliet did win the battle), they probably were not in the shape for interdiction, but rather were trying to get back to port ASAP to repair damage.
#2. How are air zones of control?
It is not necessarily surface ships that are just causing Transport TF's to abort, but also air interdiction and control. Even if this TF is not attacked, the presence of enemy air power in the region makes landing troops there tough (as the friendly TF realistically has to spend a lot of effort remaining avoided by enemy air power).
#3. What leader did you use, and what leader did they use?
The Aggressiveness of TF leaders leads directly to their chances of a sucessful landing. The Japanese have a lot of good Amphibious landing TF leaders starting in 1941, while it takes a while for great Allied Amphibious TF leaders to arrive. The IJN landings succeeded probably because they put Tanaka in charge of them, while there is nobody that is comparable for the Allies until Turner arrives. Also, if your TF leader has a high aggressiveness rating they will tend to stay longer and engage more units. Also, using REACTION tends to result in more interceptions then just targetting a base for a TF designation.
#4. This game is A LOT harder for the Allies in the early part of the game, but gets A LOT easier by mid-late 1942.
Don't expect many victories until the middle of 1942. You must pick your battles, and prioritize what you want to defend to what you can afford to lose. Sending bits and pieces throughout the Pacific to try and defend everywhere will result in defeat because the IJN can outnumber you wherever they go.
#5. For that AP TF in India, what type of TF is it? Is it Transport or Cargo? Where are you sending it to, and what is its home base? Since it is under air attack, possibly the TF panics and just stays there.
#1. How battered was your Cruiser TF?
Remember, 1 turn is 7 days. The surface battle took place before any of the transports came in. IF (as I think is so) your cruisers were damaged (abliet did win the battle), they probably were not in the shape for interdiction, but rather were trying to get back to port ASAP to repair damage.
#2. How are air zones of control?
It is not necessarily surface ships that are just causing Transport TF's to abort, but also air interdiction and control. Even if this TF is not attacked, the presence of enemy air power in the region makes landing troops there tough (as the friendly TF realistically has to spend a lot of effort remaining avoided by enemy air power).
#3. What leader did you use, and what leader did they use?
The Aggressiveness of TF leaders leads directly to their chances of a sucessful landing. The Japanese have a lot of good Amphibious landing TF leaders starting in 1941, while it takes a while for great Allied Amphibious TF leaders to arrive. The IJN landings succeeded probably because they put Tanaka in charge of them, while there is nobody that is comparable for the Allies until Turner arrives. Also, if your TF leader has a high aggressiveness rating they will tend to stay longer and engage more units. Also, using REACTION tends to result in more interceptions then just targetting a base for a TF designation.
#4. This game is A LOT harder for the Allies in the early part of the game, but gets A LOT easier by mid-late 1942.
Don't expect many victories until the middle of 1942. You must pick your battles, and prioritize what you want to defend to what you can afford to lose. Sending bits and pieces throughout the Pacific to try and defend everywhere will result in defeat because the IJN can outnumber you wherever they go.
#5. For that AP TF in India, what type of TF is it? Is it Transport or Cargo? Where are you sending it to, and what is its home base? Since it is under air attack, possibly the TF panics and just stays there.
PacWar is a game of layers. To me this is the most misunderstood facet of the game;in that there are so many elements to support sucesses or create failures. Aircraft won't fly or are reduce by leadership, supplies, enemy air zones, HQ pps etc. Same applies to all other areas of the game. Particularly in naval actions, where so much of what you do is based; leadership,Tf pps, HQ PPs, targeting of where the action is to take place, air zones both friendly and enemy, and Tf prepartion point increase(pp32).
As the Allied commander early in the game so many of these are missing, including the number of ships and aircraft you need. Delay and counter are your best assets and as many tac aircraft as you can set to NI as you can manage.
I lost New Calendonia on turn 3-4 and almost lost Aukland(did lose 3CV's) in one my games, but the Japanese have ahard time supporting these pushes. That is when counter attack ambush etc. I know this can take many turns to accomplish, but time is on your side.
Thanks for of all your work Jeremy, love the game.
AdmNelson
As the Allied commander early in the game so many of these are missing, including the number of ships and aircraft you need. Delay and counter are your best assets and as many tac aircraft as you can set to NI as you can manage.
I lost New Calendonia on turn 3-4 and almost lost Aukland(did lose 3CV's) in one my games, but the Japanese have ahard time supporting these pushes. That is when counter attack ambush etc. I know this can take many turns to accomplish, but time is on your side.
Thanks for of all your work Jeremy, love the game.
AdmNelson
Very Proud Marine Dad
Hi Jeremy,
In answer to your questions,
1. My cruiser TF was at 100% health before the encounter(split off all damaged ships after first encounter) with the enemy surface TF and only lightly damaged after. They had ROS orders with Canton as home base and had not moved since turn 2.
2. Air zones - for that turn there was no Japanese air zones over Canton. My amphibious fleet was a destroyer escorted AP TF with no leader.
I had no air units at Canton as I've had unpleasant experiences against the ai with opposing amphibious fleets 'sneaking' past guarding surface TF's.
Why the new system of amphibious TF's sometimes ignoring enemy surface TF's(and vise-versa) is considered an improvement is beyond me. Guarding surface TF's now seem largely irrelevant, at least for the allies.
IMO the way it should work is, surface TF's resolve combat and the losing TF withdraws, then any AP TF's of the victor have free passage. Maybe there could be a size check on the blockading surface TF.
3. Fletcher was in charge of my surface TF. They had ROS orders with Canton as home port (to make doubly sure they didn't go anywhere).
5. The problem with the stuck transport TF is happening at Akyab(it's happening in my other PBEM game as well). MCS, transport orders, destination Calcutta. Also, many other TF's have simply not moved at all for a turn in various games I've played.
Thanks for taking the time to improve PacWar Jeremy but I think some bugs are slipping past QA.
Why are 21 Maru transports sitting in my main cruiser squadron and why is the Phillipines Guerilla army guarding Washington?
In answer to your questions,
1. My cruiser TF was at 100% health before the encounter(split off all damaged ships after first encounter) with the enemy surface TF and only lightly damaged after. They had ROS orders with Canton as home base and had not moved since turn 2.
2. Air zones - for that turn there was no Japanese air zones over Canton. My amphibious fleet was a destroyer escorted AP TF with no leader.
I had no air units at Canton as I've had unpleasant experiences against the ai with opposing amphibious fleets 'sneaking' past guarding surface TF's.
Why the new system of amphibious TF's sometimes ignoring enemy surface TF's(and vise-versa) is considered an improvement is beyond me. Guarding surface TF's now seem largely irrelevant, at least for the allies.
IMO the way it should work is, surface TF's resolve combat and the losing TF withdraws, then any AP TF's of the victor have free passage. Maybe there could be a size check on the blockading surface TF.
3. Fletcher was in charge of my surface TF. They had ROS orders with Canton as home port (to make doubly sure they didn't go anywhere).
5. The problem with the stuck transport TF is happening at Akyab(it's happening in my other PBEM game as well). MCS, transport orders, destination Calcutta. Also, many other TF's have simply not moved at all for a turn in various games I've played.
Thanks for taking the time to improve PacWar Jeremy but I think some bugs are slipping past QA.
Why are 21 Maru transports sitting in my main cruiser squadron and why is the Phillipines Guerilla army guarding Washington?
Never give up, never surrender
-
Jeremy Pritchard
- Posts: 575
- Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 8:00 am
- Location: Ontario Canada
-
Mika Väliviita
- Posts: 106
- Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2000 8:00 am
- Location: Tampere,Finland
AFAIK, splitting damaged ships off a TF doesn't refresh the TF status, you should disband and form a new one.
Also, there is no new system regarding ignoring SC TF's it's the same as always.
If you had ROS orders and Canton as home base, what was the target base? If the TF started at another base and had the target base same as home base, it would only move during the return phase.
As for the MCS, it's just another case of the 'data corruption gremlin' as mentioned in ye olde pwhints. Also includes the sub control glitch, and the way sometimes plane graphics are switched around (anyone else seen this?).
Also, there is no new system regarding ignoring SC TF's it's the same as always.
If you had ROS orders and Canton as home base, what was the target base? If the TF started at another base and had the target base same as home base, it would only move during the return phase.
As for the MCS, it's just another case of the 'data corruption gremlin' as mentioned in ye olde pwhints. Also includes the sub control glitch, and the way sometimes plane graphics are switched around (anyone else seen this?).
New Opponent Required
Mike feels he cannot continue with our game due to bugs. Anyone prepared to take on current game? If so let me know on strawbuk.yahoo.co.uk and I will send you turn and persuade Mike to send you the password he used (Mike - yes?)
If not happy to start again with someone (aaaragh...I bet I don't sink four BB this time...) - I recall someone looking for a game?
If not happy to start again with someone (aaaragh...I bet I don't sink four BB this time...) - I recall someone looking for a game?
Sometimes, when you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things,you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it. - Winnie the Pooh