Western Civilization in Grave Danger - AU Tiger (A) vs. Skyros (J)

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RE: Western Civilization in Grave Danger - AU Tiger (A) vs. Skyros (J)

Post by geofflambert »

ORIGINAL: AU Tiger

In studying the map I have decided embark on an unusual strategic route for the subjugation of Japan:

Stage 1: Build bases in and fortify the Aleutians.

Stage 2: Take and/or negate the Kuriles simultaneously with taking the Japanese bases of Sakhalin Island.

Stage 3: Invade Hokkaido.

This will take time to develop, especially Stage 1, so I will have to demonstrate in other theaters, but the Northern Route will be my path to victory. With any luck, he won't spot my buildup too soon.


I am interested in this, but realize everything in that zone occurs at no better than 1/2 speed. Your building of bases will take a very long time up there. You can even notice this effect as far south as Prince Rupert, but it isn't as severe as in the Aleutians. Operations up there are very difficult, if you take carriers up there most of your crews will spend all their time breaking ice off the flight deck. Forget about using anything up there as a base for heavy bombers etc.. You'll be doing real good if you can get 1/4 of your squadron to take off.

Pay attention to how much you can store at those (pathetic) bases in terms of fuel and supplies, I think you'll find it quite inconvenient. Also I don't think you'll want to stage invasion troops up there, they'll have to load in Seattle.

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RE: Western Civilization in Grave Danger - AU Tiger (A) vs. Skyros (J)

Post by geofflambert »

Pilots in group reserve will also not train, but if it's a front line unit, it's nice to be able to replace KIAs, WIAs and missing pilots immediately, rather than wait 7 days for a replacement. The more pilots you have available in group, the less fatigue you'll have and perhaps less morale problems.

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RE: Western Civilization in Grave Danger - AU Tiger (A) vs. Skyros (J)

Post by Cpt Sherwood »

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

ORIGINAL: AU Tiger

In studying the map I have decided embark on an unusual strategic route for the subjugation of Japan:

Stage 1: Build bases in and fortify the Aleutians.

Stage 2: Take and/or negate the Kuriles simultaneously with taking the Japanese bases of Sakhalin Island.

Stage 3: Invade Hokkaido.

This will take time to develop, especially Stage 1, so I will have to demonstrate in other theaters, but the Northern Route will be my path to victory. With any luck, he won't spot my buildup too soon.


I am interested in this, but realize everything in that zone occurs at no better than 1/2 speed. Your building of bases will take a very long time up there. You can even notice this effect as far south as Prince Rupert, but it isn't as severe as in the Aleutians. Operations up there are very difficult, if you take carriers up there most of your crews will spend all their time breaking ice off the flight deck. Forget about using anything up there as a base for heavy bombers etc.. You'll be doing real good if you can get 1/4 of your squadron to take off.

Not quite true, the Northern Cold Zone penalties are only effective November through February. The other 8 months things are normal.
“Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity.” ― Lucius Annaeus Seneca
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RE: Western Civilization in Grave Danger - AU Tiger (A) vs. Skyros (J)

Post by AU Tiger_MatrixForum »

ORIGINAL: Cpt Sherwood

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

ORIGINAL: AU Tiger

In studying the map I have decided embark on an unusual strategic route for the subjugation of Japan:

Stage 1: Build bases in and fortify the Aleutians.

Stage 2: Take and/or negate the Kuriles simultaneously with taking the Japanese bases of Sakhalin Island.

Stage 3: Invade Hokkaido.

This will take time to develop, especially Stage 1, so I will have to demonstrate in other theaters, but the Northern Route will be my path to victory. With any luck, he won't spot my buildup too soon.


I am interested in this, but realize everything in that zone occurs at no better than 1/2 speed. Your building of bases will take a very long time up there. You can even notice this effect as far south as Prince Rupert, but it isn't as severe as in the Aleutians. Operations up there are very difficult, if you take carriers up there most of your crews will spend all their time breaking ice off the flight deck. Forget about using anything up there as a base for heavy bombers etc.. You'll be doing real good if you can get 1/4 of your squadron to take off.

Not quite true, the Northern Cold Zone penalties are only effective November through February. The other 8 months things are normal.


This is what I am banking on.
"Never take counsel of your fears."

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RE: Western Civilization in Grave Danger - AU Tiger (A) vs. Skyros (J)

Post by geofflambert »

I'm not in a position to dispute that with facts (I'm a Republican gorn, after all) but the squadrons I have training in Anchorage take forever, and (I mentioned Prince Rupert) construction just drags on forever. Anyways, pay attention to the logistical difficulties you will encounter, even under normal weather rules.

If you could capture Hokkaido, it would be a good place to build bomber bases, but not as good as Korea.

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RE: Western Civilization in Grave Danger - AU Tiger (A) vs. Skyros (J)

Post by Lokasenna »

ORIGINAL: AU Tiger

I just looked at the starting Japanese OOB, and Hokkaido and Sakhalin are remarkably lightly defended. Of course I won't be able to scout them ahead of time for risk of giving up the game, but I may seriously consider a simultaneous invasion of both - I am thinking early summer of '43. Carriers in the Sea of Okhotsk could support both at the same time. I would absolutely flood Japanese waters with submarines also.
I could take a couple of the islands with raider battalions with seaplane tenders right behind them. I could have PBY's up quickly. The more I think about this, the better I like it.

As for the diversion location I will keep an open mind; who knows what the map will be looking like then.....

Now I just need Skyros to hurry up and send me the turn so I can start sending engineers northward.



Lightly defended early, yes. But reinforcements do arrive there.
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RE: Western Civilization in Grave Danger - AU Tiger (A) vs. Skyros (J)

Post by AU Tiger_MatrixForum »

What do the orange and green colors signify?



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RE: Western Civilization in Grave Danger - AU Tiger (A) vs. Skyros (J)

Post by Cpt Sherwood »

Green = gain the last turn.
Orange = gain in this calendar month.
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RE: Western Civilization in Grave Danger - AU Tiger (A) vs. Skyros (J)

Post by AU Tiger_MatrixForum »

ORIGINAL: Cpt Sherwood

Green = gain the last turn.
Orange = gain in this calendar month.

Thanks
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RE: Western Civilization in Grave Danger - AU Tiger (A) vs. Skyros (J)

Post by BBfanboy »

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

I'm not in a position to dispute that with facts (I'm a Republican gorn, after all) but the squadrons I have training in Anchorage take forever, and (I mentioned Prince Rupert) construction just drags on forever. Anyways, pay attention to the logistical difficulties you will encounter, even under normal weather rules.

If you could capture Hokkaido, it would be a good place to build bomber bases, but not as good as Korea.

After moving all the Canadian BFs [except Vancouver's] and one Brigade to Prince Rupert, I built it to max level in both port and AF in six months. True, that number of units could have built a more southern base to that level in less time, but I had the time and the troops who could not be otherwise gainfully employed. Lots of supply and fuel was moved from there to the Aleutians.

I moved US BFs and engineer units from Alaska coast and Seattle to Adak and Amchitka, which developed fairly quickly. The big headache is the airfield at Dutch Harbour - with a level 0 SPS, it is still not level one after six months effort by the lone BF there. Developing SPS Level 0 facilities are a pain anywhere, but redoubled where cold or malaria slow efforts down.
No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth
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RE: Western Civilization in Grave Danger - AU Tiger (A) vs. Skyros (J)

Post by AU Tiger_MatrixForum »

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

I'm not in a position to dispute that with facts (I'm a Republican gorn, after all) but the squadrons I have training in Anchorage take forever, and (I mentioned Prince Rupert) construction just drags on forever. Anyways, pay attention to the logistical difficulties you will encounter, even under normal weather rules.

If you could capture Hokkaido, it would be a good place to build bomber bases, but not as good as Korea.

After moving all the Canadian BFs [except Vancouver's] and one Brigade to Prince Rupert, I built it to max level in both port and AF in six months. True, that number of units could have built a more southern base to that level in less time, but I had the time and the troops who could not be otherwise gainfully employed. Lots of supply and fuel was moved from there to the Aleutians.

I moved US BFs and engineer units from Alaska coast and Seattle to Adak and Amchitka, which developed fairly quickly. The big headache is the airfield at Dutch Harbour - with a level 0 SPS, it is still not level one after six months effort by the lone BF there. Developing SPS Level 0 facilities are a pain anywhere, but redoubled where cold or malaria slow efforts down.

Don't have the PP's for the Canucks right now, but I am not too worried about Dutch's AF at this moment. I am working on my turn update right now and you will see what I have in mind.
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RE: Western Civilization in Grave Danger - AU Tiger (A) vs. Skyros (J)

Post by AU Tiger_MatrixForum »

12 December 1941
Operation Eagle


It is probably just my imagination, but I believe I see an immediate improvement in morale in Singapore since Percival was sent packing. I will keep an eye on it.

The air war was ho-hum today, the Japanese appear to be licking their wounds, which is good because I don’t have much left, although near Singapore some Buffalos knocked down 4 Bettys and damaged one when 9 of them went after a PT boat. I imagine Skyros was not pleased……

More landings in the Philippines and more TF’s heading for Borneo. I looked at reinforcing Balikpapan but I have few PP’s right now with which to change the command of a decent local unit. One of the shipboard Indian brigades earmarked for Palembang is due west of Sabang right now, and am thinking of routing it to Balikpapan, but my gut is telling me that Palembang is the better choice, but I have a few turns to think about it yet.

Dutch subs have been doing very good work in the shipping lanes leading to Malaya, hitting 2 or 3 merchies a turn, and sinking one DD on the last one. I am liking those guys!

I gave a lot of backwater squadrons some TLC on training missions and personnel, and believe I want to build up a nice pool of trained pilots for the good airplanes that are coming my way eventually. I will prioritize trained pilots for the better squadrons, I don’t want to throw good money after bad by sticking them in obsolete airframes. This will probably hurt me in the short run, but this will be a long war. Speaking of trained pilots, I have “bought out” 2 of the 3 AVG squadrons, and have them in Burma training. I think I might give them a little experience in China soon once I get their fatigue and morale improved; until recently they have been on 100% CAP, but please don’t ask me why….

Force ZULU, lead by the Force Z ships, consisting of a mixed bag of 15 British, US, and Dutch ships, including the Boise, has been ordered north from Soerabaja along the western coast of Borneo to try to wreak some havoc in the Japanese landings going on the north coast. I used the highest AA rated ships available (5090 AA rating) and a couple of 8 ASW British DD’s, so along with the POW’s radar, so hopefully I can generate some Hate and Discontent with the Jap landings. The waters they will pass through are rotten with Jap subs so the TF will likely be spotted, therefore this will be a quick “In and Out” raid; I don’t want mKB to come calling. Speaking of which, it is still camped in the north Celebes Sea. I haven’t seen KB in a couple of turns but there is no way they could get that far that quickly.

OPERATION EAGLE:
In a recent post (#156) I mentioned a long term plan I have decided on in Northern waters I will repeat here:

In studying the map I have decided embark on an unusual strategic route for the subjugation of Japan:

Stage 1: Build bases in and fortify the Aleutians.

Stage 2: Take and/or negate the Kuriles simultaneously with taking the Japanese bases of Sakhalin Island.

Stage 3: Invade Hokkaido.

This will take time to develop, especially Stage 1, so I will have to demonstrate in other theaters, but the Northern Route will be my path to victory. With any luck, he won't spot my buildup too soon.


The Aleutians are interesting in that other than Kodiak you don’t find a mix of decent potential AF/Port bases, so I will build up some selected bases near Dutch Harbor into airfields, and concentrate on Dutch’s port. The idea is that these bases, situated closely together, can provide interlocking support. It is either this, or use the engineers’ time too inefficiently for the amount of construction I must do. The two big ports will be Dutch and Kodiak, and a number of mutually supporting airfields. Today we gave orders for a number of units to begin strat-packing for the voyage to Umnak Island, where the forward (for now) airfield will be. Included in the lot are a Marine CD unit, an EAB unit, some small base forces, a couple of AA units, etc. Many more units will be following on northward in the near future, especially from PH once the massive sub presence has abated some. Nearing Dutch Harbor now is a supply convoy sent on Dec. 8th.
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RE: Western Civilization in Grave Danger - AU Tiger (A) vs. Skyros (J)

Post by BBfanboy »

ORIGINAL: AU Tiger
ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

I'm not in a position to dispute that with facts (I'm a Republican gorn, after all) but the squadrons I have training in Anchorage take forever, and (I mentioned Prince Rupert) construction just drags on forever. Anyways, pay attention to the logistical difficulties you will encounter, even under normal weather rules.

If you could capture Hokkaido, it would be a good place to build bomber bases, but not as good as Korea.

After moving all the Canadian BFs [except Vancouver's] and one Brigade to Prince Rupert, I built it to max level in both port and AF in six months. True, that number of units could have built a more southern base to that level in less time, but I had the time and the troops who could not be otherwise gainfully employed. Lots of supply and fuel was moved from there to the Aleutians.

I moved US BFs and engineer units from Alaska coast and Seattle to Adak and Amchitka, which developed fairly quickly. The big headache is the airfield at Dutch Harbour - with a level 0 SPS, it is still not level one after six months effort by the lone BF there. Developing SPS Level 0 facilities are a pain anywhere, but redoubled where cold or malaria slow efforts down.

Don't have the PP's for the Canucks right now, but I am not too worried about Dutch's AF at this moment. I am working on my turn update right now and you will see what I have in mind.
No PP required for the Canadians to go to PR. Just strat move them by train.
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RE: Western Civilization in Grave Danger - AU Tiger (A) vs. Skyros (J)

Post by BBfanboy »

Too late for now, but the 15 ship SCTF size "without penalty" specified by the manual is too large in many players experience. You will get more collisions from any TF over 10 ships, and in any TF over 8 ships will likely have some that do not engage because they are out of position for the battle. Six to 8 ships seems to be ideal for SCTFs, and multiple smaller TFs perform better than one large one.

As for the lack of good potential bases in the Aleutians - are we looking at the same map? [some players are using modified maps]. I stock Scenarios, Adak, Amchitka, and Attu can all be built much better than Dutch Harbour. Trying to build an airfield at DH is a trial on your patience! The three islands I mentioned are a little spread out though!

Note that Nome has a BF and a Bn that you can move somewhere useful as soon as you get some amphib ships up there. IIRC, the Bn can be combined with a couple of others to form a Rgt.
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RE: Western Civilization in Grave Danger - AU Tiger (A) vs. Skyros (J)

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

ORIGINAL: AU Tiger


Today we gave orders for a number of units to begin strat-packing for the voyage to Umnak Island, where the forward (for now) airfield will be. Included in the lot are a Marine CD unit, an EAB unit, some small base forces, a couple of AA units, etc. Many more units will be following on northward in the near future, especially from PH once the massive sub presence has abated some. Nearing Dutch Harbor now is a supply convoy sent on Dec. 8th.

If not too late I'd change this. If it were me I'd Amphib/Combat load everything rather than Transport/Strat. You're landing at an unimproved island. Before you send anything else, find one of your six (?) Port Services units. The US gets these at the start, scattered around. They each have a letter in their name, beginning with 'A'. They are essentially huge balls of naval support specifically designed to help unload the big items on unimproved dirt. Without one you will likely find some of the bigger arty, air defense, etc. items won't unload until you improve the port to Level 3 or so. It's been awhile, but I think one starts on an island south of Christmas Island (Penrhyn maybe?) just sitting there. Go get it off and use it elsewhere.

I think one or two might be at Pearl, and Pearl doesn't need them as a huge port already.

You've already no doubt noticed, but load mode is a very big deal in AE, unlike WITP. You can't just load and go.
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RE: Western Civilization in Grave Danger - AU Tiger (A) vs. Skyros (J)

Post by AU Tiger_MatrixForum »

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Too late for now, but the 15 ship SCTF size "without penalty" specified by the manual is too large in many players experience. You will get more collisions from any TF over 10 ships, and in any TF over 8 ships will likely have some that do not engage because they are out of position for the battle. Six to 8 ships seems to be ideal for SCTFs, and multiple smaller TFs perform better than one large one.

As for the lack of good potential bases in the Aleutians - are we looking at the same map? [some players are using modified maps]. I stock Scenarios, Adak, Amchitka, and Attu can all be built much better than Dutch Harbour. Trying to build an airfield at DH is a trial on your patience! The three islands I mentioned are a little spread out though!

Note that Nome has a BF and a Bn that you can move somewhere useful as soon as you get some amphib ships up there. IIRC, the Bn can be combined with a couple of others to form a Rgt.

Its not too late, I can split some ships out - I have a turn before they will be ready for their attack run.

I agree on those islands, they will be the second group to be developed. I am not going to focus on Dutch's airfield for quite a while, Umnak will have the airfield.
ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
If not too late I'd change this. If it were me I'd Amphib/Combat load everything rather than Transport/Strat. You're landing at an unimproved island. Before you send anything else, find one of your six (?) Port Services units. The US gets these at the start, scattered around. They each have a letter in their name, beginning with 'A'. They are essentially huge balls of naval support specifically designed to help unload the big items on unimproved dirt. Without one you will likely find some of the bigger arty, air defense, etc. items won't unload until you improve the port to Level 3 or so. It's been awhile, but I think one starts on an island south of Christmas Island (Penrhyn maybe?) just sitting there. Go get it off and use it elsewhere.

I think one or two might be at Pearl, and Pearl doesn't need them as a huge port already.

You've already no doubt noticed, but load mode is a very big deal in AE, unlike WITP. You can't just load and go.

It isn't too late, I can just cancel the current orders and reload. I will look at that unit in Pearl (?) when I get the turn back.

Thanks!
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RE: Western Civilization in Grave Danger - AU Tiger (A) vs. Skyros (J)

Post by geofflambert »

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


Note that Nome has a BF and a Bn that you can move somewhere useful as soon as you get some amphib ships up there. IIRC, the Bn can be combined with a couple of others to form a Rgt.

Just for your info, those units at Nome in DaBigBabes version C don't exist. I presume the modders did some research and couldn't verify their existence. [&:]

I agree about moving them, I don't know what the IJN would want with Nome. Let them have it. They like seal don't they?

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RE: Western Civilization in Grave Danger - AU Tiger (A) vs. Skyros (J)

Post by AU Tiger_MatrixForum »

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


Note that Nome has a BF and a Bn that you can move somewhere useful as soon as you get some amphib ships up there. IIRC, the Bn can be combined with a couple of others to form a Rgt.

Just for your info, those units at Nome in DaBigBabes version C don't exist. I presume the modders did some research and couldn't verify their existence. [&:]

I agree about moving them, I don't know what the IJN would want with Nome. Let them have it. They like seal don't they?


They will be evicted from their comfy beds and sent to the frigid wastelands soon.
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RE: Western Civilization in Grave Danger - AU Tiger (A) vs. Skyros (J)

Post by topeverest »

Sorry for missing a few days, but if you invade the Kurils early beware that you activate the empire reserve army, which is considerable. I would not be in a hurry to do that unless you have thought through the strategic implications or if you have decided to take the northern approach to Japan.

Pushing the empire all the way out the Aleutians is a 42 priority, but it is very early to think about fortifying up there, given the KB and where she might be going. it will be spring before you can do anything important up there from an invasion perspective, since the weather will prevent most invasions on most turns.

Can you clarify how many bb and cruisers lost at pearl?

Are you going to contest an early strike to Rabaul or PM with surface and or carriers?

How are you deploying subs?
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RE: Western Civilization in Grave Danger - AU Tiger (A) vs. Skyros (J)

Post by AU Tiger_MatrixForum »

ORIGINAL: topeverest

Sorry for missing a few days, but if you invade the Kurils early beware that you activate the empire reserve army, which is considerable. I would not be in a hurry to do that unless you have thought through the strategic implications or if you have decided to take the northern approach to Japan.

Pushing the empire all the way out the Aleutians is a 42 priority, but it is very early to think about fortifying up there, given the KB and where she might be going. it will be spring before you can do anything important up there from an invasion perspective, since the weather will prevent most invasions on most turns.

My expected start for the invasion isn't until the summer of '43. I agree about the KB being an issue, that is why my first priority is to max out the build up in Dutch Harbor, Umnak (which can become a size 9 AF if I am not mistaken) and Kodiak before I start expanding westward. This is a long term plan.
ORIGINAL: topeverest
Can you clarify how many bb and cruisers lost at pearl?


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