The Great War Like

[dlazov]

Has anyone done any scenarios kind a like the Great War?

I have a scenario that is hypothetically 1934 Britain vs. German that I am working on. It involves 1 German Infantry battalion defending with pillboxes, bunkers, gun emplacements, wire and trenches against a heavily reinforced British Brigade (4 battalions with several 8 inchers). I am doing the trench works now and then the wire. After that I am setting up both sides. I am working on a mod for SPWW2 that would be SPWW1. But I am not moding SPWaW (at least yet).

I could post it if there was any interest (warning, tons of grunts, trenches, grunts, shell holes, grunts, wire, grunts, bombardment, grunts, mmg, grunts, pillboxes, grunts, bunkers, grunts, gun emplacements, grunts, and more grunts).

S/B ready in 1 to 2 weeks.

[Sergio Castaldi]

Yes post it !
j'm very interested to your scenario !

Ciao

Sergio

[dlazov]

I just rechecked my work. Here is some more specs to those interested.

Descpt. Modeled after July 1st 1916 battle of Somme (57,000 British Infantry men lost there lives in 30 minutes).

Germans

1 Infantry battalion (3 rile coy, MMG pltn, 81mm Mtr pltn)
1 Cav Squadron (3 cav coys in reserve)
1 Inf Gun section
Lots of 77mm (okay 75mm Art OFB)
Blockhouses, bunkers, pillboxes, trenches, wire, ect.,

British
1 Infantry Division (-)
(6 rifle coy, MMG, HMG, 3 inchers, 1 sapper coy and 1 Cav Sqdn in reserves, bunch of 8 inchers)

Map semi done, I found that I only have some many shellholes (the map seams to run out and not let you continue to use them???)

[tracer]

Very interested! I've been looking for scenario like this, please let me know when its ready...in fact, let me know if you need it play-tested. Are you doing this under v7.1 or H2H?

[tracer]

Originally posted by dlazov

Map semi done, I found that I only have some many shellholes (the map seams to run out and not let you continue to use them???)

Just a suggestion: if you have a 'patch' of cratered hexes try changing those in the center to 'rough' or 'rocks' hexes...this would free up some shellholes for use elsewhere.

[dlazov]

tracer wrote:

if you need it play-tested

Yes that is probably a good idea once ready we can do a play test to see how its going.

and...

Are you doing this under v7.1 or H2H?

Under 7.1

and...

Just a suggestion: if you have a 'patch' of cratered hexes try changing those in the center to 'rough' or 'rocks' hexes...this would free up some shellholes for use elsewhere.

Good idea, its too bad that SP WaW is not like SP WW2 as regards to shellholes, there is no limit (at lest if you select auto-gen map in 1914-1919 period, then there are tons of shell holes across the map and you can add more with no problem).

[dlazov]

Map status:
Built Maricourt and the Montauban Alley and the Bernafay Wood.

OOB status:
Both GB and NG are ready to be deployed. I am setting up the Germans in the trench systems except for the Cavalry with will be a reinforcement.

[RockinHarry]

Originally posted by tracer
Just a suggestion: if you have a 'patch' of cratered hexes try changing those in the center to 'rough' or 'rocks' hexes...this would free up some shellholes for use elsewhere.

for this reason above, I extracted the shellhole tiles from the Icon file sometime last year and put them into Ter90 terrain file, so they can be used by map designers as map elements. Unfortunately I just managed to finish the z4 file for lack of time. Tracer..are you interested and have time to make the z3 to z1 files?

btw: I also experimented with WW1 stuff last year and am very interested to see your work dlazov!:)

check this thread:

showthread.php?s=&threadid=19751&perpag ... genumber=3

[tracer]

Originally posted by RockinHarry
for this reason above, I extracted the shellhole tiles from the Icon file sometime last year and put them into Ter90 terrain file, so they can be used by map designers as map elements. Unfortunately I just managed to finish the z4 file for lack of time. Tracer..are you interested and have time to make the z3 to z1 files?

Assuming there's not too many, sure. I can just pack them into temporary shp's and send them back to you, or send the raw BMP's...let me know which would be easier when you send them. We should probably point out to dlazov that he would also have to include the updated Ter90 files with his scenario...he's doing it under v7.1 so the H2H patch won't apply.

[dlazov]

Rockin Harry, I went to the link you posted and it seams at one age there was some interest, but it seams to have fizzled out.

Perhaps we can work together. I have not modified any of the OOB's or graphics. Just using standard SP WaW stuff. The only OOB's I have modified are for SP WW2 (it has a smaller install space and I have three installs - SP WW1, SP WW2 and SP MBT, plus my SP WaW).

The scenario I am working on is based off of the July 1 1916 Somme battles and the Maricourt and Montuaban area.

What is the deal with the trench issus you mentioned in the other thread.

Downloaded your files: And will take a look at em.

Has anyone done the WW1 OOB as in the other threads post?

[Irinami]

Is the problem really a game problem, or does it lie within how many shell hole hexes the player's PC's memory can handle? One way to check is to max out the number of shell holes, then check the status of a hex that's supposed to have them but doesn't appear to. If it's listed textually as having them, even though the icon doesn't show up, it's probably just a RAM problem.

[RockinHarry]

Originally posted by dlazov
Rockin Harry, I went to the link you posted and it seams at one age there was some interest, but it seams to have fizzled out.

Perhaps we can work together. I have not modified any of the OOB's or graphics. Just using standard SP WaW stuff. The only OOB's I have modified are for SP WW2 (it has a smaller install space and I have three installs - SP WW1, SP WW2 and SP MBT, plus my SP WaW).

The scenario I am working on is based off of the July 1 1916 Somme battles and the Maricourt and Montuaban area.

What is the deal with the trench issus you mentioned in the other thread.

Downloaded your files: And will take a look at em.

Has anyone done the WW1 OOB as in the other threads post?

think I can help with one thing or two. I just sent the shellhole shapes to tracer and maybe he finds time to get them into the Ter90 shape file. This should help to avoid the shellhole ingame limit!:)

What trench issues??
The normal SPWAW "trench" is more something like a bigger version of "stream/gully" terrain and not meant to be a real combat trench! Also the shape is way to big to be used as combat trench. I have some info available in my map making document, that can be downloaded from my signature below.

BTW: This "oversize" issue can also be found in SP2WW2 and it´s even more serious! :rolleyes: Raillines that look to be 20 meters wide and such stuff.

[dlazov]

Rockin Harry,
Sounds good. I will have to look in your doc on the trench thing. I have just completed the Maricourt and Montauban map (scanned in map image and flipped it, used OOD to overlay a hex grid and then print to view and map it), and was just starting on adding in the trench systems. Should I switch to gullies?

I am not really sure what you mean by "oversize" issue, unless you are refering to the actual graphics to real life. I was orginial meaning the size of the install in megs (SP WW2 is smaller, I heard less sound effects). Therefore one can install several versions of SP WW2 (I renamed them SPWW2, SPWW1 and SPWW2 Org, so I could mess with OOB's, lbms and what nots).

Matrix's game is a lot bigger and I don't have room for more then one install of it.

[tracer]

Originally posted by RockinHarry
think I can help with one thing or two. I just sent the shellhole shapes to tracer and maybe he finds time to get them into the Ter90 shape file. This should help to avoid the shellhole ingame limit!:)

It only took me about 30 minutes to do the resizing; check your mailbox Harry.

[dlazov]

I read through Rockin Harry's doc, but it was mostly techincial on using Freds Map Editor. There were some interesting things, but...

On the map I see this:

Gully = -2
Trench = -1

What exactly is the difference? (or read which is more like WW1 type of trench-this is a perspective thing I guess-I like the trench look, but really trenches could be at -2)

In SP WW2 Trenches can be placed on hills but SP WaW the trenches and gullies seam to cut through the hill (i.e. instead of being on the hill and a slightly lower level SP WaW makes them -1 and -2 where as SP WW2 only lowers them so that SP WW2 makes the trenches work more realistically).

Don't want a arguing match just trying to figure this out.

For SP WaW I have to drastically modify my map (i.e. do I use a sunken road and place trenches historically like my maps scans? In SP WaW I have to devaite a lot because of the above. For WW2 games that is okay, but for WW1 games it is not. For example in the Somme area the Germans held the high ground and the British held the lower ground, hence the German MG's were firing at an advantange, but if a trench is at -1 or -2 not sure of the out come-playtest note to Don-just get it done and see instead of quibbling with yourself on the accuraccy of the map-on the other hand....)

Okay, I have talked myself into it, I will make two "big" scenarios, one with trenches and one with gullies-unless a more exp. mapper tells me right up front the best to use (hint, hint) and test the results. Not yet sure how to model paripits (misspelled) in the trenches (what about the ladders?....)

lol

[RockinHarry]

Originally posted by tracer
It only took me about 30 minutes to do the resizing; check your mailbox Harry.

thanx!

dlazov should have his "extra" shellholes soon!

[RockinHarry]

Originally posted by dlazov
I read through Rockin Harry's doc, but it was mostly techincial on using Freds Map Editor. There were some interesting things, but...

On the map I see this:

Gully = -2
Trench = -1

What exactly is the difference? (or read which is more like WW1 type of trench-this is a perspective thing I guess-I like the trench look, but really trenches could be at -2)

In SP WW2 Trenches can be placed on hills but SP WaW the trenches and gullies seam to cut through the hill (i.e. instead of being on the hill and a slightly lower level SP WaW makes them -1 and -2 where as SP WW2 only lowers them so that SP WW2 makes the trenches work more realistically).

Don't want a arguing match just trying to figure this out.

For SP WaW I have to drastically modify my map (i.e. do I use a sunken road and place trenches historically like my maps scans? In SP WaW I have to devaite a lot because of the above. For WW2 games that is okay, but for WW1 games it is not. For example in the Somme area the Germans held the high ground and the British held the lower ground, hence the German MG's were firing at an advantange, but if a trench is at -1 or -2 not sure of the out come-playtest note to Don-just get it done and see instead of quibbling with yourself on the accuraccy of the map-on the other hand....)

Okay, I have talked myself into it, I will make two "big" scenarios, one with trenches and one with gullies-unless a more exp. mapper tells me right up front the best to use (hint, hint) and test the results. Not yet sure how to model paripits (misspelled) in the trenches (what about the ladders?....)

lol

If you try to make SPWAW maps out of the box, then you most likely will be dissatisfied with the results,..the more as you try to model terrain (WW1 trench systems) that actually can be modelled halfway realistic in Freds map editor only!

Basically "Trench" and "Stream/gully" terrain in SPWAW is almost the same, effect wise! They can be placed on level 0 terrain only, provide good cover for units in hex and increase breakdown chance for vehicles driving through it. They´re not any line of sight obstacle too.

Did you read the "How to" section in my tech manual? The one that describe how to make custom trench lines?? Actually there you should find all you need and questions answered btw. It also includes how to place trench line - like terrain on any elevated terrain, not just level 0!

some more things to know: SPWAW only knows terrain elevation steps in 5 in/decrements, starting with 0, then 5,10,15 and so on...
If you see any "height" of say...11..or -2 then that does not mean 11 meters or -2 (below sea level 0) meters! These extra numbers indicate terrain identification flags, that are used to differentiate between similar terrain classes. Below level 0 terrain generally is reserved for the water kind of terrain, including swamp, marshes ect. Check the map making document for more details.

The combination that I use for "trenchlines" is a mixture of "gully" graphics (for the sake of scale), attributed with "entrenchment" status, without the use of the sandbag graphics. That custom terrain only can be created in Freds Map Editor.

Off course, if you like the big "Trench" graphic more, you can combine it with the "Entrenchment" attribute mentioned above.

While normal "trench" and "gully" terrain provide you with good to very good cover, only the "Entrenchment" attribute would provide you the cover that you would expect from 2 meter deep WW1 combat trenches. Usually..."Rough", "Stone building" and "Entrenchments" (Dug-In status!) give best cover and can be placed on any elevation on SPWAW maps.

Sunken Road? Either use "Rough" terrain and put a road on top or make the road -5 deep, relative to current level. Means...on a level 10 hill, make the road 5, ect. There is no -5 (below 0) road, as any negative height terrain is treated as some kind of water terrain in SPWAW. So your deepest road that you can make would be at level/height 0 and the surrounding terrain needs to be at least at level 5!

Paripits?? I guess you mean terrain features that are far below the 50m/hex scale in SPWAW? How would you model effect of such features???;)

Ok...I hope I was not too boring! Need example map? Let me know.

[dlazov]

Rockin Harry,

Thanks for the post and all the information. It does sound a bit more complicated than I anticipated. I have not fully read or experimented with Fred's Map editor or your documents.

A new tool to play with it does sound a bit complicated though.

Parapet (this was the firing parapet that the soldiers used in the trenches).

Perhaps if I get the map done with out the trenches we could collaborate?

[RockinHarry]

Originally posted by dlazov
Rockin Harry,

Thanks for the post and all the information. It does sound a bit more complicated than I anticipated. I have not fully read or experimented with Fred's Map editor or your documents.

A new tool to play with it does sound a bit complicated though.

Parapet (this was the firing parapet that the soldiers used in the trenches).

Perhaps if I get the map done with out the trenches we could collaborate?

yeah..I know. It´s more of my inability to tell about complicated tech stuff in plain english! :rolleyes: I always hoped that some native speaker could rewrite my little document and thus making it better readable, but noone volunteered so far!

Back to the topic: I prepared some little example scenario that makes use of the SPWAW custom shape files. I added the shellholes and a darkened version of the "gully" graphics for use as trenchlines. Plant the Ter90z4 into the SHP directory (overwrite the old and empty Ter90z4 file) and play the little test scenario from german side (or just open in SPWAW editor). Only the z4 file (max zoom in) is finished, so if you see those green blobs, you need to hit the ´+´ key a couple of times until you see the new graphics.

If you like what you see then I could complete the other zoom levels soon and help you with getting the trenches into your scenarios.

BTW: Do you use custom OOBs?

I do know about the Verdun battle pretty well and also visited the battlefield two times in the past, but I know little about the other "great War" battles, like Somme, Ypres, ..other fronts..ect.

[dlazov]

Rockin Harry,

Okay, first thanks for the terrain instructions downloaded and installed after I post this I will fire up SP WaW and look.

Regarding custom OOB's I have not yet done so for SP WaW. Only for SP WW2 (I have been creating my own WW1 OOB's for that game it has a smaller install space then SP WaW).

With that in mind SP WaW does have the back up directory for OOB's so I can create an archive directory if needed and mess or use custom oob's.

I have finnished the Maricourt and Montauban map minus the trenches and with the trenches. I added some shell holes and damaged some buildings but I put a stop to that about four days ago so we could resolve this issue first.

I have a lot of WW1 stuff, most of the battles were bloodly some were mobile, and a lot were not. The more (to the WW2 community) interesting WW1 battles would be 1914 both east and west front due to the mobililty.

Funny thing is during this period almost all commanders vastly underestimated MG's and the French were appalled at brown or green earth color uniforms. Hence the slaughter of soldiers at all levels en masse.

Regards~
Don