ORIGINAL: Michael T
When moving thru the open plains in Russia in clear weather only the lead elements would be fanned out in tactical formation (using fuel at a higer rate), the vast majority of follow up units would be single file along some dusty track using far less fuel, the same for all practical purposes as admin movement. No way it would be 2 or 3 times as much. The MP cost of a hex should be independant of the Fuel costs per hex. So I would say that fuel expenditure should be far less when NOT moving in a Zoc relative to the MP expended. Plus it costs something like 56% fuel (or 28 MP) to get ferried across a major river. Once across the river I would reckon fuel expenditure would equate any other Zoc fuel costs. But it seems to cross a pontoon bridge or the use of a ferry sends fuel consumption thru the roof. MP equates to time. Fuel is not time. Fuel is energy. Energy and Time should be seperate.This brings me back to a point I made earlier. They want to model every tank, gun and squad in combat but as for logistcis we can't even seperate Gas consumption from MP. That is tactical movement from admin movement or something very close to it.
ORIGINAL: Michael T
To put it another way. It might take 1/2 a week to cross a major river in a Zoc (i.e 28MP out of a possible 50MP), that is time. But it should not cost over half the gas that Pz XX is carrying, that is energy.
I agree Michael. Is it true as pointed out that in combat u use more fuel, generally accepted 3-4 times as much in combat then just moving a unit. This is absolutly true and should be reflected in some way. No doubt.
Problem is that this direct corrolation between MP and fuel usage leads to the possibilty of gaming the supply system. I really cant figur out why ppl havent figured out yet that this is one of the keys to ur/MTs maximizing the supply system.
For example LVI Pz Korps race to Pskov. They really didnt fight that much they primarily just drove. U had the fuel u had. Now if u in game drive one 86+ moral Ps div up there swapping the hexes. Lets assume no rivers and all clear hexes. The follow up division in the next turn only pay 1 MP instead of 3 MP cutting the fuel usage to 1/3.(had it been a 71 to 85 moral division the difference would have been 1 to 4.) So instead of arriving at Pskov empthy of fuel u can be close to full or 3/4s full. Completely opposed to the historical logistical constraints.
This signifcantly alter the advances u can do as u can cut ur fuel usage totally shredding the system as is.
I really dont think the fuel usage of LVI would have been historicly any different if they had driven 1 division up first then waited 3 days to send the next cutting the fuel usage by 2/3s or more.
Little tricks like that extends the possible advance rate significantly. U still drive the same distance in either of the cases and going by history. Would u really without much fighting have seen a fuel usage that would have been that marketly different.
This makes it totally impossbile for the designers to gauge how much the logictics/suppply fuel delivered should be as the usage can vary by 300-400% or more driving the same distance.
What that does to what ppl can do for those that knows how to game the system and those that dont/cant/wont is so different that u achieve very different results.
If i was designer and im not, i would wana remove the possibilty of gaming the system just for that sake as the result u can get from it is so different. Ur ability to control what player can or cant do is so vastly different with the current system. Its far to easy to keep MP in the high end constantly using this along with Fuel truck number 1 aka the luftwaffe, unbalanced the what i percieve as intend of designers concerning the supply system.
Potentially driving 1 hex, crossing a river in ZoC costs near the same in fuel as driving 16 hexes or 250 km through enemy territory or 50 hexes(800 km) through friendly territory.
Clearly a Pz div woudnt use the same fuel amount in those 3 cases. The vast difference in what this makes possible, unbalance the supply system/fuel usage.
Yes combat should cost fuel, but does a hasty only really use 1/6 of a prepared attack and sure crossing a river from ZoC to ZoC should cost, more than jsut driving a hex but is the fuel usage really the same as driving 800km.
I would have had a much more stringent fuel usage in much higehr degree tied to distance travel than now if up to me. Ofc taken into account battle uses fuel and tricky manuvers too.
Kind regards,
Rasmus
