Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)

Post descriptions of your brilliant victories and unfortunate defeats here.

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mktours
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RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG

Post by mktours »

Hi, Marquo
this picture is what you took after yout T8, I just got your T8 and didn't do my T9 yet. so it is irrelevant to the point, in fact, there were only 4-5 motorizee& panzer divisions that in the action from T4-T6, I rest the other 7-8 divisons in the rear, some as back as LUKI, and my rail line was fastly approaching to luki by 2 RR division, and almost all the air drop went to the rear divisions and HQs, in T7, it is those well-rested divisons that attacked out along with the mass infantry that just marched to there. they are well supply and of cource, have feul in the tank after the turn, so they still got much MP to sustain the action in T8, after T8, the mission has been finshed (the rail line to leningrad had been cut), all the job would be carried out by infantry then. this picture is token after the soviet T8, and I just got the file, and the spearhead didn't got much MP, indeed very few, since I didn't do my T9 yet, I reserve to answer it later, but one thing for sure is it no relevant to the issue,[:)]
my suggestion is that you check out the battle report of each turn and make a list of the motorize & panzer divisions in the battle in each turn, then you would see you are not dealing with all the panzers from T4 to T6, you were only hit by all of them in T7, after the dam cracked by infantry. [:)]
I even send the entire KG51 bombers to the north as I saw it as the Key area. as so many people are interested in the logistic side, I would explain it later with the reports of the following turns.
ORIGINAL: Marquo

Someone with more insight (MT) will need to explain how it possible for units in the following condition to maintain/attain good MPs. The northern most Axis units in this picture were cut off by a Soviet counterattack, with the lead unit at SP 90; all of the units are > 50 MPs from a railhead, yet are moving in a column seemingly at will; and through multiple layers of ZOCs.



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mktours
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RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG

Post by mktours »

I would explain it with detail reports of each turn, there is nothing abnormal in the process. I have just got the T8soviet, and I am working at this moment, so the reports would be done later.
ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

ORIGINAL: Marquo
It is the logistics which have me baffled; I will post shots of Axis spearheads cut off, glowing yellow, in multiple ZOCS and yet they still surge forward almost unimpeded. [:)]

I'd be interested in seeing that and also in hearing from Mktours with any insights on his method for sustaining his advance (I assume heavy air resupply is a large part, but he is likely planning much more carefully than that).

Regards,

- Erik
mktours
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RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG

Post by mktours »

the leading motorize divisions which marched as far as 2 hexes away from the lennigrad rail line in T7 even got air drop of supply after start with 124% fuel in the tank to make sure they got enough armament in the battle.
mktours
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RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG

Post by mktours »

indeed, we could see the leading motorize division is only 3 hexes ahead of a infantry division, if the infantry division could get there, why not the motorize ones?
ORIGINAL: Marquo

Someone with more insight (MT) will need to explain how it possible for units in the following condition to maintain/attain good MPs. The northern most Axis units in this picture were cut off by a Soviet counterattack, with the lead unit at SP 90; all of the units are > 50 MPs from a railhead, yet are moving in a column seemingly at will; and through multiple layers of ZOCs.



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Michael T
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RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG

Post by Michael T »

I really don't get all the whoha here, realism aside. From the maps all we have seen is the Axis advancing on a narrow front. Nothing new. This has always been possible. With HQBU, Air Supply and leap frogging it is quite easy to get a long way on narrow fronts. It is up to the defender to counter this with road blocks. If areas are left undefended entire swaths of country side get converted to friendly control and hence the follow up troops move up at a rapid and less fuel costly rate.

Its nothing new nor is it unstoppable.
mktours
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RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG

Post by mktours »

Michael certainly got the point.
ORIGINAL: Michael T

I really don't get all the whoha here, realism aside. From the maps all we have seen is the Axis advancing on a narrow front. Nothing new. This has always been possible. With HQBU, Air Supply and leap frogging it is quite easy to get a long way on narrow fronts. It is up to the defender to counter this with road blocks. If areas are left undefended entire swaths of country side get converted to friendly control and hence the follow up troops move up at a rapid and less fuel costly rate.

Its nothing new nor is it unstoppable.
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Flaviusx
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RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG

Post by Flaviusx »

ORIGINAL: Michael T

I really don't get all the whoha here, realism aside. From the maps all we have seen is the Axis advancing on a narrow front. Nothing new. This has always been possible. With HQBU, Air Supply and leap frogging it is quite easy to get a long way on narrow fronts. It is up to the defender to counter this with road blocks. If areas are left undefended entire swaths of country side get converted to friendly control and hence the follow up troops move up at a rapid and less fuel costly rate.

Its nothing new nor is it unstoppable.

MT, I think the two of you should perhaps play a game. Let's see who has the better cheese. It will be interesting from that perspective, if nothing else. The kind of people who are ok with this kind of thing should really just be playing each other.

For me, the realism bit is the whole whoha. Hopefully things will get tightened up down the line, because there is a lot of silliness going on right now as the game's model breaks down as it is pushed to do ever more ridiculous things. It's not just this particular match, either.


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mktours
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RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG

Post by mktours »

T4-Luki after recon
A sucessful counter-attack has placed the entire column of 10 motorize division and the lehr brigade out of supply. Fortunately several division has receive air drop last turn and have some MP reserved, so they still got a handful of MP at the start.

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mktours
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RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG

Post by mktours »

T4north-center after recon
Perhaps encouraged by the successful counter-attacks, the soviet didn’t redeploy the units in the poskov region, even though not a single hex has been stepped into by the GHC in that direction last turn.


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mktours
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RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG

Post by mktours »

T4south after recon
All the pockets in the south has been broken, the Kiev region has been cut off, but the city have got thousands tons of fuel in supply. So that is good news for the encircled troops.


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mktours
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RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG

Post by mktours »

T4Kiev after recon
The motorize units didn’t have too much MP.


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mktours
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RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG

Post by mktours »

T4 odessa after recon

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mktours
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RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG

Post by mktours »

Having the entire column of panzer divs cut off supply caused my planed massive strike impossible, so I made an adjustment, used 3 motorize units to do a pincer attack to cut off the 3 divs that did one of the counterattack.
Also could be seen in this picture that a panzer division is rested in the rear.


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mktours
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RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG

Post by mktours »

several motorize divisions were group together and created a bridge head, throwing spearhead to reach Vyshney Volochek. Also could be seen in this picture that there were several divisions never move.
I expected the spearhead would be cut off, so air drop have been made to the divisions in the bridgehead to make sure they have enough fuel to sustain the action next turn.


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mktours
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RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG

Post by mktours »

T4North- end of the turn
my plan at that moment is to use the spearhead to draw units towards it and my major troops would attack towards Moscow. But a careless mistake would result in the bridgehead being cut off itself, also the situation in the beginning of next turn would be I still lacking of power to do a massive assault, we would see in the next turn.


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mktours
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RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG

Post by mktours »

T4 center-end of turn
all the troops are marching towards LUKI
every units could be railed is on the rail towards LUKI

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mktours
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RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG

Post by mktours »

T4 south_end of turn
In the south:All the pockets were re-sealed; I saw the defense around Kharkov was well-formed so I switch to South.
The break through in the LUKI area forced soviet to rail a lot of troops to react, so the industry evacuation is under pressure, D-town still got 9 armaments and 5 heavy industry in this turn, perhaps it was the reason for Marquo to deploy in front of the city to avoid it being locked, rather than guard the city itself, but I spent MP to cut the route and force the roadblocks to retreat to the other bank of Dnepr River, D-town was captured as an undefended city.

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Ketza
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RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG

Post by Ketza »

Interesting advances but to what end?

After turn 5 will be interesting to see the casualties.
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M60A3TTS
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RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG

Post by M60A3TTS »

Sorry, but this game belongs in the theater of the absurd. If Axis players want to keep trying to outdo each other in seeing how far east they can get a panzer division before winter, knock yourselves out. But this is tantamount to a lab experiment and has nothing whatsoever to do with a competitive game.

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Ketza
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RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG

Post by Ketza »

Well if after 5 turns the casualties are still around 1.2 million for the Soviets its nothing different then most regardless of the deep penetrations.
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