Wild Sheep Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A)

[fcharton]

ORIGINAL: obvert
It all depended on the damage levels of the fields, or at least it seemed to. I truly wasn't looking that closely to know exactly how many were moving each day. I was only loading up all of them for the division at first. I don't even remember when this really began. I'll have to check.

Tracker makes this easy. Load the turns (if you don't load every turn, just start a new tracker, and load the turns Jocke sent you, day by day), go to the LCU tab, sort by base, and then for all the units you're evacuating, click history. This should work. You will be able to find (in the base tab, under history) daily runway/field damage.

I think this is worth te analysis, because you have a lot of planes ferrying your units. A squad being about a dozen men, I believe your 300 planes should be able to move a lot of squads every day (all of them are transports, after all, so it is certainly more than a squad per plane...), so if you moved like 100 squads a day, the effect of airfield clutter and enemy CAP is ^proven, and I think everything is legit.

300 transports is a lot of planes...

Francois

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: fcharton

ORIGINAL: obvert
It all depended on the damage levels of the fields, or at least it seemed to. I truly wasn't looking that closely to know exactly how many were moving each day. I was only loading up all of them for the division at first. I don't even remember when this really began. I'll have to check.

Tracker makes this easy. Load the turns (if you don't load every turn, just start a new tracker, and load the turns Jocke sent you, day by day), go to the LCU tab, sort by base, and then for all the units you're evacuating, click history. This should work. You will be able to find (in the base tab, under history) daily runway/field damage.

I think this is worth te analysis, because you have a lot of planes ferrying your units. A squad being about a dozen men, I believe your 300 planes should be able to move a lot of squads every day (all of them are transports, after all, so it is certainly more than a squad per plane...), so if you moved like 100 squads a day, the effect of airfield clutter and enemy CAP is ^proven, and I think everything is legit.

300 transports is a lot of planes...

Francois

I may have time for this tomorrow. Thanks Francois, I hadn't though to look at tracker. I would have to load a new version though. I've been lax lately!

[wallentin]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: wallentin

I see. You are using mostly land based transport.

But in this case i think u have to use some kind of AF stacking HR.

"An airfield can operate 50 single engine (or 25 two engine, or 12 four engine) planes per AF size
or 1 group per AF size. The best Air HQ of the same command as the base which is within range
can add its command radius to the number of groups that can be administrated, or if not in the
same command, the nearest HQ will add ½ its command radius to the number of groups."

But it seems me unrealistics. Land and launch almost 20 airgroup and almost 300 plane per day on a level 6 AF.
I know, you have 13th Air Fleet on the base which can help organize the evacuation. But this seems me impossible mission. In Normandy 44 there were a few month to plan the logistic issues.

I think u can evacuate (or move in/out like did earlier) the troops, but not combat ready. Like Dunkirk. The game is working different way... and need a good HR to handle this gap.

I count 223 wheeled transport and 35 flying boats.

Again, it might not be 'a' level 6 field. This is meant to approximate the use of several fields in some cases. I live in the London area. The 'hex' here would have had about 10-12 fields in it. Maybe more. Definitely a size 10 complex.

Dunkirk and Normandy were on an epic scale much more grand and incredible than this. We're talking about one shattered division, at about 40% strength, being lifted without most of it's machinery and bigger guns (destroyed in several retreats earlier). A few even more shattered brigades, (only one of which is fully out now, minus guns), and elements of construction, base forces and support units so they can have a core unit to start from if destroyed here when the Allied masses arrive and knock us back again.

Jocke is telling me I've moved 25k troops. I'm not sure its that much. Still way off the several hundred thousands for Dunkirk and more for Normandy. Lets not forget that that was a highly contested hex and the port was too damaged to use! Amazing.

[font="Trebuchet MS"] In the nine days from 27 May – 4 June 338,226 men escaped, including 139,997 French, Polish and Belgian troops, together with a small number of Dutch soldiers, aboard 861 vessels (of which 243 were sunk during the operation). Liddell Hart says British Fighter Command lost 106 aircraft dogfighting over Dunkirk, and the Luftwaffe lost about 135 – some of which were shot down by the French Navy and the Royal Navy; but MacDonald says the British lost 177 aircraft and the Germans lost 240.

The docks at Dunkirk were too badly damaged to be used, but the East and West Moles (sea walls protecting the harbour entrance) were intact. Captain William Tennant—in charge of the evacuation—decided to use the beaches and the East Mole to land the ships. This highly successful idea hugely increased the number of troops that could be embarked each day, and indeed at the rescue operation's peak, on 31 May, over 68,000 men were taken off.[14][31]
The last of the British Army left on 3 June, and at 10:50, Tennant signalled Ramsay to say "Operation completed. Returning to Dover." However, Churchill insisted on coming back for the French, so the Royal Navy returned on 4 June in an attempt to rescue as many as possible of the French rearguard. Over 26,000 French troops were lifted off on that last day — but between 30,000 and 40,000 French soldiers were left behind and forced to surrender to the Germans.[/font]

I never said Dunkirk was same. Just the ad-hoc evacuation part (without pre-planning), but not the size (ten times bigger) neither the used equipment (ship or plane). I used Normandy for example because there was an air operation part, however that was different kind of operation, but the overall size maybe same (how many plane can move 30k man).

What about Stalingrad air supply operation? How many plane how many supply transported in and how many people evacuated out? And what cost? Without strong air cover the transport, even the strongly armed, are just prey on daylight. Like bomber offensive in WE. They cannot defend themself.

Lvl 6 in game terms. It can a dozen smaller one. Like in Stalingrad were two bigger and some smaller ones.

[Encircled]

I don't think the Red Air Force had that much effect at Stalingrad

It was more operational losses, the sheer distance to fly and that was made worse when the Russians captured the airbase at Tataskya (spelling?) that the vast majority of aircraft were flying from.

If you can't evacuate your heavy weapons, and you've spent a large section of your economy in building up the transport fleet, then I can't really see a problem with it.

EDIT though if LRCAP is massive, I can see why Joc is getting frustrated, though the explanation you've given (land as dusk/dawn, fly in and out low and in twilight/dawnlight) is perfectly acceptable.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Encircled

I don't think the Red Air Force had that much effect at Stalingrad

It was more operational losses, the sheer distance to fly and that was made worse when the Russians captured the airbase at Tataskya (spelling?) that the vast majority of aircraft were flying from.

If you can't evacuate your heavy weapons, and you've spent a large section of your economy in building up the transport fleet, then I can't really see a problem with it.

EDIT though if LRCAP is massive, I can see why Joc is getting frustrated, though the explanation you've given (land as dusk/dawn, fly in and out low and in twilight/dawnlight) is perfectly acceptable.

Well I'm just using what is available to all Japanese players. I'm sure in the war these were shipping a lot of rice and bullets, pilots, and important people.

The cost is the replacements, which should have been more if we do find there is a bug in the ability to catch transports with LR CAP, and the supply. The supply now is causing some problems, but I'm sure completely rebuilding those units would be more costly as well. So Jocke has some good points, but I just view this (aside from the LR CAP art, which is fairly big) as a very small issue in the larger scope of things that aren't quite like reality in the game.

[obvert]

I should add I've just learned that flying boats will transport to a fully damaged port. This is interesting, and I can see the logic, being that they could anchor and small boats could bring men and stuff out. Surely not 75mm field guns, but the men, mortars and supplies, yes.

The rate did look to slow with 100% port damage, but only about 15%.

So I was a bit wrong that there was an easy way to stop this, an the LR CAP issue becomes larger.

[paullus99]

I can see the problem - as the allies would know exactly where the airfields were & transports are easy enough to shoot down (with their slow speed), not to mention slower still when loaded....if a couple of hundred allied aircraft can't massacre a bunch of basically "stationary" transport aircraft, there is a real problem with the way this is modeled.

[obvert]

So I also had a look at the game at the end of August, and at that time, during the siege of Cagayan, there were 11,978 infantry and 16,134 support troops there. Another brigade of 5,672 troops was nearing the hex and joined in there.

At Davao at the time there were 6,577 infantry and 11, 279 support troops. Another 10,279 were moving there from Dadjangas.

So before the battles there were 61,919 troops on Mindanao whose units eventually made it to Davao.

From this time to current, August 30 to October 7, 1944, the Allies mercilessly crushed our men from above and bludgeoned them on the ground.

Here are the figures.

At Cagayan, including as many air attacks as I listed in my reports, (which is usually only the first big raid of a day, not the 15 smaller ones after), I lost at least 13,757 men. I was also flying the air support HQs and some base forces and engineers out at this time, so really this has been happening for over a month in game, not just the last few weeks.

After this in the battles at Malabalay we lost another 7013 men.

So altogether that leaves 41,149 troops.

At Davao now I have 7,365 infantry and 12, 631 support, or 19,996 troops altogether.

Over the course of these five weeks then I was able to lift somewhere in the region of 21,153 troops. That is probably minus around another 2,000 killed in air strikes I haven't accounted for Cagayan and Malaybalay, where troops were targeted extensively by the 4Es.

If we account for the extra killed in air raids not listed in the AAR and round to 20k over 38 days that would be 526 a day. If there are 12 men in a squad then that would be 43.8 squads a day. Not really that many over such a long period, actually.

Obviously I wasn't using 250+ transports for this entire time. That only started when everything got to Davao.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: paullus99

I can see the problem - as the allies would know exactly where the airfields were & transports are easy enough to shoot down (with their slow speed), not to mention slower still when loaded....if a couple of hundred allied aircraft can't massacre a bunch of basically "stationary" transport aircraft, there is a real problem with the way this is modeled.

Of course. The LR CAP is a huge issue if it's not working. See the tests thread in the tech area for my take on it. I certainly would like to think my fighters would be able to LR CAP a hex and shut it down. With all of the stuff moving I thought originally maybe Jocke had neglected this as he focused on the Marianas or his op in Burma.

But it looks like you're responding simply to the LR CAP issue and not the transport to a fully damaged port item, right?

[witpqs]

But it seems me unrealistics. Land and launch almost 20 airgroup and almost 300 plane per day on a level 6 AF.

I know that Obvert has answered already, but I have a point to add. First, as Obvert mentioned a level 6 airfield is not one airfield or runway, but rather a complex of airfields in the hex. The additional point is that the planes are not based there. They land, load up with troops as quickly as possible, and take off. They don't need to fuel up either.

Which is different than saying there is no problem going on here. I think Obvert and Jocke are on the trail of whatever is going on. Hopefully Michael can help nail it down.

[paullus99]

Yes, the LR-CAP is definitely the issue here. If you have the planes, you have the planes - but given the circumstances as discussed elsewhere, it sounds like you're basically getting a free ride to get as many troops out (or in) without paying the penalty in airframes that you should.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: paullus99

Yes, the LR-CAP is definitely the issue here. If you have the planes, you have the planes - but given the circumstances as discussed elsewhere, it sounds like you're basically getting a free ride to get as many troops out (or in) without paying the penalty in airframes that you should.

I agree completely. Had this been working differently of course I would have not been flying those transports after one or two bad days. It would then become a hit or miss op based solely upon whether Jocke was conducting other missions for a period and whether I too could LR CAP the hex to protect the transports, which could have happened from a number of nearby fields.

Overall the LR CAP is the major issue. I don't sense that is the core of his frustration though. He seems intent on a rapid pace and has bypassed multiple big bases without neutralizing them. Most of these have been used to contest his long LOC to the PI over the past six months, including a recent hit on a tanker TF with 20 Jakes that I haven't written up yet and the destruction of a troop convoy at Milne Bay (!) by Graces from Rabaul several days ago.

Anything that slows this pace and his destruction of Japanese troops seems to make him really concerned, while of course my entire intent is to slow his progress as much as possible. I tend to think he's in a great position and has worked hard to get in range of the oil and very soon the HI (yikes!).

[fcharton]

ORIGINAL: obvert
If we account for the extra killed in air raids not listed in the AAR and round to 20k over 38 days that would be 526 a day. If there are 12 men in a squad then that would be 43.8 squads a day. Not really that many over such a long period, actually.

Obviously I wasn't using 250+ transports for this entire time. That only started when everything got to Davao.

Ok, suppose you had 150 transports on average, for 40 days, that's 150*40=6000 transport.days, I don't know how many squads fit on a transport during one day (one rotation? two rotations? I'd say two...), but suppose three which is probably a low estimate. Over the period, your 6000 transports.day could have transported 18000 squads, but they actually transported 1666... (20 000/12)

Which sort of means only one transport in eleven managed to bring some troops home, or that planes only flew once every eleven days, or that just 9% of your squadrons actually flew, or any combination of those...

It might be worth testing this without CAP, to see the capacity of such an air bridge in the absence of enemy action. But I'm still under the impression that enemy CAP was quite successful interdicting the hex.

In other words, five weeks is a long period of time, and 150 planes a lot of transports.

Francois

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: fcharton

ORIGINAL: obvert
If we account for the extra killed in air raids not listed in the AAR and round to 20k over 38 days that would be 526 a day. If there are 12 men in a squad then that would be 43.8 squads a day. Not really that many over such a long period, actually.

Obviously I wasn't using 250+ transports for this entire time. That only started when everything got to Davao.

Ok, suppose you had 150 transports on average, for 40 days, that's 150*40=6000 transport.days, I don't know how many squads fit on a transport during one day (one rotation? two rotations? I'd say two...), but suppose three which is probably a low estimate. Over the period, your 6000 transports.day could have transported 18000 squads, but they actually transported 1666... (20 000/12)

Which sort of means only one transport in eleven managed to bring some troops home, or that planes only flew once every eleven days, or that just 9% of your squadrons actually flew, or any combination of those...

It might be worth testing this without CAP, to see the capacity of such an air bridge in the absence of enemy action. But I'm still under the impression that enemy CAP was quite successful interdicting the hex.

In other words, five weeks is a long period of time, and 150 planes a lot of transports.

Francois

Interesting thoughts again. I do think it's easy to miss the amount that can be accumulated by consistent daily action of this kind. i was surprised looking back how many troops the 4Es had wiped out just in the last month.

I'd again have to look back to really know how many were flying at each point. I would guess I had about 50-60 Helens with maybe 25 Tabbys during the first three weeks or so, and they were flying more sporadically, dependent on enemy action and field status.

The probably the big ramp up over a week to using the total numbers listed above, the 225 or so regular transports with another 35 flying boats.

[fcharton]

ORIGINAL: obvert
Interesting thoughts again. I do think it's easy to miss the amount that can be accumulated by consistent daily action of this kind. i was surprised looking back how many troops the 4Es had wiped out just in the last month.

That's my impression as well. As we play the game turn by turn, we tend not to notice long term effects. As for troop transport, my experience is that whereas it is very difficult to transport a significant amount of troops under short notice, it works wonders (except for the heavy equipment) if you have enough time.

ORIGINAL: obvert
I'd again have to look back to really know how many were flying at each point. I would guess I had about 50-60 Helens with maybe 25 Tabbys during the first three weeks or so, and they were flying more sporadically, dependent on enemy action and field status.

The probably the big ramp up over a week to using the total numbers listed above, the 225 or so regular transports with another 35 flying boats.

Yeah, so you'd have 3 weeks with 80 planes, against little opposition (?), one week with 170 ((260+80)/2), and one with 260, that's an average of 134, and the above calculation holds...

Francois

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: fcharton

ORIGINAL: obvert
Interesting thoughts again. I do think it's easy to miss the amount that can be accumulated by consistent daily action of this kind. i was surprised looking back how many troops the 4Es had wiped out just in the last month.

That's my impression as well. As we play the game turn by turn, we tend not to notice long term effects. As for troop transport, my experience is that whereas it is very difficult to transport a significant amount of troops under short notice, it works wonders (except for the heavy equipment) if you have enough time.

[/quote]

Maybe one day the many chances I've had to take out numerous Allied transports will eventually add up to a small problem for them! [:D] (Probably not!)

ORIGINAL: obvert
I'd again have to look back to really know how many were flying at each point. I would guess I had about 50-60 Helens with maybe 25 Tabbys during the first three weeks or so, and they were flying more sporadically, dependent on enemy action and field status.

The probably the big ramp up over a week to using the total numbers listed above, the 225 or so regular transports with another 35 flying boats.

Yeah, so you'd have 3 weeks with 80 planes, against little opposition (?), one week with 170 ((260+80)/2), and one with 260, that's an average of 134, and the above calculation holds...

Francois

The trouble is I don't know how often Jocke thought he was LR CAPing the bases and when he wasn't because we've shown through tests that it's not working as most players probably think and hope it is, in fact it doesn't seem to work at all against transports specifically.

So yes, very little opposition and they'd fly when the fields were not closed.

[Historiker]

You've shot down 22 of my transport planes with LR-Cap in one single turn when I dropped paras on Magwe. Maybe dropping paras is different, but shooting down transports obviously works!

I intended to recommend him changeing the altitude of his CAP but didn't do so. Then, I read that you said you send yours in at 1000 feet, so I can't give him that advice any more. Lucky you [;)]

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Historiker

You've shot down 22 of my transport planes with LR-Cap in one single turn when I dropped paras on Magwe. Maybe dropping paras is different, but shooting down transports obviously works!

I intended to recommend him changeing the altitude of his CAP but didn't do so. Then, I read that you said you send yours in at 1000 feet, so I can't give him that advice any more. Lucky you [;)]

Ha! It's okay. I let him know now. It's all in th open at this point. Even sent a screenshot of Davao on the 4th to show his recon was off by about +20k!

Yeah, I think in the tech thread someone else confirmed it works in the official. I had forgotten about those at Magwe. Thanks Torsten!

[obvert]

[font="Times New Roman"]7 October 1944: MARIANAS[/font]
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[font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]SUBS: [/font] A few subs interacted with the main fleet CV TFs but none could get through the escorts for a shot. One did however make it to the CVEs and took out CVE Anzio with two TT! A little bit at a time! We lost two subs sunk and two damaged during the day. Well worth it.

[font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]CENTRAL PACFIC:[/font] This was an interesting set of actions. I sent in several small SAGs again, very quick. The Es are all 32 knot and the Sakawa TF is 33 knot. The Allies sent two TFs of 6 Fletchers each to the Guam area to hit MTBs and MLs there, or possibly they reacted there early in the phase. This took them away from Jocke's CVEs and our three E got in to do some damage. It's not likely any of these will sink but it was still a pretty sight and might keep some out for a while. They're also still vulnerable to sub in this area if they're damaged and even slower than usual.

The Bougainville and Takanis Bay were burning black smoke, which is not a good sign of course, and the Bougainville also collided with a DE during the melee. After the turn 35 Hellcats appeared on the sunk list. All of these could have been on the Anzio, and that's probably the case.

More of the same tomorrow. All of the SAGs make it back to Pagan to refuel. I've not got much CAP left after massive Corsair and Jug sweeps at Pagan, but the possible gains are worth the potential losses here, and there aren't many planes at Tinian to strike yet. If he keeps the CVs in the area that is just more days to have them in range of the subs.

[font="Trebuchet MS"]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR October 7, 44
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Night Time Surface Combat, near Saipan at 108,93, Range 8,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
MTB G-540, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
MTB G-872, Shell hits 2, and is sunk

Allied Ships
DD Frankford
DD Patterson
DD Preston
DD Reid
DD Monssen II
DD De Haven II

Improved night sighting under 71% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions and 71% moonlight: 11,000 yards

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Night Time Surface Combat, near Guam at 106,95, Range 8,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
ML G-206, Shell hits 1, and is sunk

Allied Ships
DD Bearss
DD Howorth
DD Monssen
DD Aaron Ward
DD Farenholt
DD Gansevoort

Improved night sighting under 71% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions and 71% moonlight: 11,000 yards

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Night Time Surface Combat, near Saipan at 108,93, Range 8,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CL Sakawa
DD Matsukaze
DD Oite, Shell hits 1

Allied Ships
DD Frankford
DD Patterson
DD Preston, Shell hits 1
DD Reid
DD Monssen II
DD De Haven II

Improved night sighting under 71% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions and 71% moonlight: 11,000 yards
DD Frankford launches Torpedoes at DD Matsukaze at 8,000 yards
Range closes to 3,000 yards
CL Sakawa engages DD Reid at 3,000 yards
DD Frankford engages DD Oite at 13,000 yards
Task forces break off...

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Night Time Surface Combat, near Guam at 106,95, Range 8,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
MTB G-354, Shell hits 1, and is sunk

Allied Ships
DD Bearss
DD Howorth
DD Monssen
DD Aaron Ward
DD Farenholt
DD Gansevoort

Improved night sighting under 71% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions and 71% moonlight: 11,000 yards

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ASW attack near Saipan at 113,96

Japanese Ships
SS I-58, hits 29, heavy damage

Allied Ships
PF Brownsville
PF Pasco
PF Casper

SS I-58 is located by PF Brownsville

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Night Time Surface Combat, near Guam at 106,95, Range 6,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
MTB G-886, Shell hits 1, and is sunk

Allied Ships
DD Bearss
DD Howorth
DD Monssen
DD Aaron Ward
DD Farenholt
DD Gansevoort

Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions and 60% moonlight: 10,000 yards
Range closes to 24,000 yards...

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Sub attack near Saipan at 113,96

Japanese Ships
SS I-171, hits 21, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
CVE Anzio, Torpedo hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage [:)]
DE Griswold
DE Tisdale
DE Steele, Shell hits 1
DE Stadtfeld

Fuel storage explosion on CVE Anzio
SS I-171 launches 4 torpedoes at CVE Anzio
DE Tisdale attacking submerged sub ....
SS I-171 forced to surface!

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Day Time Surface Combat, near Tinian at 108,94, Range 18,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
E Hasu
E Susuki
E Hiyodori, Shell hits 3

Allied Ships
CVE Windham Bay, Shell hits 3
CVE Bougainville, Shell hits 5, on fire
CVE Matanikau, Shell hits 1
CVE Munda, Shell hits 1
CVE Roi, Shell hits 2, on fire
CVE Attu
CVE Takanis Bay, Shell hits 9, on fire
DE Paul G. Baker, Shell hits 1, on fire
DE Jaccard
DE O'Flaherty
DE Raymond
DE Cauvery
DE Kistna

Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions: 22,000 yards
Range closes to 24,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 22,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 22,000 yards
Range closes to 18,000 yards...
CVE Takanis Bay , CVE Attu screened from combat
- escorted by DE Kistna , DE Cauvery , DE Raymond ,
DE O'Flaherty , DE Jaccard , DE Paul G. Baker
E Hiyodori engages CVE Munda at 18,000 yards
E Hiyodori engages CVE Windham Bay at 18,000 yards
Range closes to 17,000 yards
E Hiyodori engages CVE Takanis Bay at 17,000 yards
Range closes to 13,000 yards
E Hiyodori engages CVE Roi at 11,000 yards
Range closes to 9,000 yards
Range increases to 13,000 yards
Range closes to 6,000 yards
E Hiyodori engages CVE Bougainville at 6,000 yards
Range increases to 9,000 yards
CVE Takanis Bay screened from combat
- escorted by DE Kistna , DE Cauvery , DE Raymond ,
DE O'Flaherty , DE Jaccard , DE Paul G. Baker
E Hiyodori engages CVE Attu at 9,000 yards
Range increases to 12,000 yards
DE Cauvery collides with CVE Bougainville at 108 , 94 [:)]
Range increases to 15,000 yards
Range closes to 14,000 yards
E Hiyodori engages CVE Takanis Bay at 14,000 yards
Range closes to 10,000 yards
E Susuki engages CVE Bougainville at 10,000 yards
Range increases to 14,000 yards
E Hasu engages CVE Takanis Bay at 14,000 yards
Range increases to 19,000 yards
Range increases to 24,000 yards
Task forces break off...

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Morning Air attack on Pagan , at 110,89

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 28 NM, estimated altitude 36,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M3 Jack x 14
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 32
Ki-84a Frank x 43
Ki-102b Randy x 16

Allied aircraft
F4U-1A Corsair x 41

Japanese aircraft losses
J2M3 Jack: 4 destroyed
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar: 4 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 2 destroyed
Ki-102b Randy: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1A Corsair: 1 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
29 x F4U-1A Corsair sweeping at 31000 feet

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Morning Air attack on Pagan , at 110,89

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 27 NM, estimated altitude 45,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M3 Jack x 2
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 17
Ki-84a Frank x 28
Ki-102b Randy x 11

Allied aircraft
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 20

Japanese aircraft losses
J2M3 Jack: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar: 3 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 3 destroyed
Ki-102b Randy: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-47D25 Thunderbolt: 1 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x P-47D25 Thunderbolt sweeping at 42000 feet

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Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Pagan at 110,89

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 33 NM, estimated altitude 3,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M3 Jack x 1
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 4
Ki-84a Frank x 6
Ki-102b Randy x 2

Allied aircraft
TBM-1C Avenger x 6

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
TBM-1C Avenger: 3 destroyed
TBM-1C Avenger: 1 destroyed by flak

Japanese Ships
CL Sakawa

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x TBM-1C Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 22in Mk 13 Torpedo

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Ground combat at Saipan (108,93)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 1170 troops, 96 guns, 78 vehicles, Assault Value = 1610

Defending force 31292 troops, 401 guns, 358 vehicles, Assault Value = 632

Japanese ground losses:
59 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 5 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

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[font="Trebuchet MS"]These small torpedo boats have been really useful lately. I'll have to scour the navy and see if there are more doing escort somewhere that can be brought in anywhere where there are close quarters and lots of ships operating. I'm surprised the Fletchers didn't find them, but I guess the speed helps and maybe the size also inhibits detection. [/font]
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[font="Times New Roman"]7 October, 1944: PALEMBANG[/font]
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[font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]STRAT BOMBING: [/font] I decided to do a separate post for this one attack as I've finally found some combinations that can protect the oil a bit better. I am also including the entire report as it's pretty interesting how few hits they got this night, although there were severe storms as well.

I placed many Irving NF groups here totaling about 80 planes, and also inserted a bit more flak. The forts got to level 9 (does this help against a Manpower attack?).

The first wave of B-29s, the big one that usually takes out my fighters and leaves the rest free to operate, wasn't as successful against this mob. I also flew one group at 8k, below the attack level of the bombing, as they do have upward facing guns and maybe this can help? Still not sure what did the job here but on the day he seems to have lost almost 20 B-29s!!! [&o]

This came at a price of 21 Irvings, so I bumped production up another 10 airframes a month. I also have the Dinah III KAI coming on line now and a group arriving in two weeks to fly them. So another 45 planes once it fills out. These should be my best NF for a while, fast and durable and decent armament.

This attack by about 93 B-29s produced only just over 10k fires and will likely only take less than 10 points off of the oil. Even bumping up to 40 planes a month he can't really live with these losses I'm sure. I'm short on NF now too, but at least I know what can work, and the new Irving model will have radar as well, building now.

So strategically I'll defend Palembang with everything I have for now and leave Soerabaja, Balikpapan and Djambi a bit short with only one NF group each. Miri and Medan have been shattered to the point it doesn't matter much now to leave a NF group there, with only 34 points each. Miri is getting vulnerable to surface naval and air strikes as well. As long as I can keep the sea lanes open along Indochina and keep Palembang in decent shape until 45 I think I'll have stores to last into my goal of spring 45 producing HI at full tilt.

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AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR October 7, 44
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Night Air attack on Palembang , at 48,91

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 78 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 24 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-S Irving x 61

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 32

Japanese aircraft losses
J1N1-S Irving: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-1 Superfort: 6 damaged

Manpower hits 2
Fires 990

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

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Night Air attack on Palembang , at 48,91

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 25 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-S Irving x 53

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
J1N1-S Irving: 6 destroyed [:-][X(]

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-1 Superfort: 1 destroyed, 5 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

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Night Air attack on Palembang , at 48,91

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 34 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-S Irving x 27

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 5

Japanese aircraft losses
J1N1-S Irving: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-1 Superfort: 3 damaged
B-29-1 Superfort: 1 destroyed by flak

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

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Night Air attack on Palembang , at 48,91

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 44 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-S Irving x 14

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 8

Japanese aircraft losses
J1N1-S Irving: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-1 Superfort: 3 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

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Night Air attack on Palembang , at 48,91

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 37 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-S Irving x 8

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 5

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-1 Superfort: 2 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

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Night Air attack on Palembang , at 48,91

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 12 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-S Irving x 2

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 3

No Japanese losses

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

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Night Air attack on Palembang , at 48,91

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 18 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-S Irving x 2

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 3

No Japanese losses

No Allied losses

Manpower hits 1
Fires 1950

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

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Night Air attack on Palembang , at 48,91

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 35 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-S Irving x 2

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 4

No Japanese losses

No Allied losses

Manpower hits 2
Fires 3250

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

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Night Air attack on Palembang , at 48,91

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 47 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-S Irving x 2

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 7

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-1 Superfort: 1 damaged

Manpower hits 11
Fires 10150

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

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Night Air attack on Palembang , at 48,91

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 37 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-S Irving x 5

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
J1N1-S Irving: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-1 Superfort: 1 damaged
B-29-1 Superfort: 1 destroyed by flak

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

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Night Air attack on Palembang , at 48,91

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 17 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 4

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-1 Superfort: 1 damaged

Manpower hits 1
Fires 10875

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

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Night Air attack on Palembang , at 48,91

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 41 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 4

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-1 Superfort: 1 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

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Night Air attack on Palembang , at 48,91

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 39 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 5

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
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[font="Trebuchet MS"]Hopefully the Dinah II KAI will be a tiger![/font]
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