Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Feltan

WRT the sub game.

Early on take special care to deploy Dutch subs and the S boats -- in '42 they will be the kill leaders if you use them wisely. With dud torpedoes, deployment of fleet boats is up for debate. You can deploy them on the approaches to the Japanese homeland via Pearl, or eventually Midway and just ignore the fact that a lot (hmm... maybe 75%) of the hits will be duds. I often use them for emergency supply runs to Singers and Bataan to try and prolong things a tad more, but just a tad.

Set up your key sub bases and if they don't have a shipyard use AR/ARD at them to repair light damage. At first the AS situation isn't too good, but later you will get so many of them that they will be begging for work.

Regards,
Feltan

Somebody posted up data from their game a couple of weeks ago that showed fleet boats really aren't that bad. Maybe in December of '41, but in '42 they do pretty well. Mostly due to their superior range, durability, and ammo stocks. As you say, their torpedoes may fail more but they also shoot more torpedoes over the course of a patrol. And once Japan has taken all of the SRA, they're really the only viable option to interdict shipping around the Home Islands.

I would recommend deploying all boats to the best of your ability. I've found subs to be an incredible asset in this game, for both sides. They can take out any ship, at any time, and you get a lot of them. My favorite spots for portions of my deployment are from Townsville or somewhere in the Solomons (easy access to CentPac and slightly closer to Japan than Hawaii is), with Brisbane/Sydney available for repairs. Especially if you can get the support ships (AS, AR) out of the DEI and to the eastern coast of Australia.

[jzardos]

ORIGINAL: bruin

ORIGINAL: jzardos

Just wondering if anybody could help me with a few short and long term action items to do as allies after the Dec 7th, 1941 nightmare turn.

Some of my questions are around
- best way to defend Singapore
- bets way to defend Philippines
- what to do with CV fleets in action and CV in west coast.
- do I get more supply in west coast? Surprise to low supply levels there to start scenario.
- what to do with ships in PH (damaged and non-damaged), Japan makes a 2nd strike?

Any and all advice and or links to what I'm guessing has been asked before is much appreciated.

Thanks!

Excellent initial AAR/walkthrough here:

tm.asp?m=2564541&mpage=1&key=

My thoughts based on playing as Allies vs AI IJ (Against human this might not work):

- best way to defend Singapore
Don't - evac your forces out as quickly as you can. Wherever the Japanese are advancing, pick a defensive perimeter and hold it. No point holding singapore because you can't get supplies or reinforcements in. So fall back to where you can. My main holding line in the DEI is Timor (Koepang/Lautem). I also throw a lot of forces in Java (mainly Batavia since it is not a Malaria zone). Java is meant to be a speedbump (albeit a major one) in the Japanese advance to buy you some time to build up elsewhere. You could really hold Java forever against AI (but that makes things too easy). Evac Malay/Singapore forces and planes to Java, send troops moving into the area to Timor. You'll also want to send some supplies in early as it will be much harder to later.

- bets way to defend Philippines
I say defend Manila. I think it's better than Clark Field since Manila is heavy urban giving much higher defensive bonuses but not sure. I hold both Clark & Manila until all Phillipine forces have shown up, then concentrate in Manila and make sure to set all units objectives as manila. Supplies will be a massive problem. Best way to get them are 1. Hold a small force in Naga and send single ship transports with supplies into Naga to reinforce. 2. Japanese will land in several outskirt areas with minor forces, attacked them and you'll gain their supplies.

- what to do with CV fleets in action and CV in west coast.
I use them to defend bases against where the Japanese fleets will be landing. But make sure to KEEP out of KBs way!

- do I get more supply in west coast? Surprise to low supply levels there to start scenario.
They'll get there quickly.

- what to do with ships in PH (damaged and non-damaged), Japan makes a 2nd strike?
Put all your fighters on cap and pray. Another option I've done before, put together a task force or two of like 10 DDs, send them to attack the Japanese fleet. Once or twice I've scored a torpedo hit on a carrier. But what this does do is - instead of a 50% chance they attack Pearl again, it's now close to a 100% chance they attack your DD task force instead and you lose most of them.

Thanks for the link, great resource. But curious why both the DB and TB should be set to alt of 13k? Always thought the TB should be around 6k? Was I wrong this whole time? Or is it that at the same alt, they are protected better by the CAP at 15k alt? Also, should training be 100%? That does not wear down the pilots and morale? Maybe that does matter if they gain exp faster? Thoughts?

[jzardos]

Ok, did find answer by Saraukar in that thread. But I wonder if that reduces the effectiveness of the TB and even maybe DB when both at 13k alt? Anybody know what/if there's an optimal alt for TB and/or DB?

By the way, if someone wonders why I set all of my Dive Bombers and Torpedo Bombers, both land and on CVs to 13 000ft, explanation is this:

Escort fighters fly 2k above strike planes, so putting strike to 13k puts escort fighters to 15k. This is inside the optimum altitude band of Allied early war fighters. 15k is actually the highest altitude for max maneuverability of about all early war Allied fighters. Putting strike at for example 15k would put fighters to 17k and already above "best altitude". And putting attack planes to 10k would put them at 12k..which is sub-optimal too, while in best altitude band, they'd be lacking that extra 3k of altitude..and altitude advantage can be crucial.

[Sardaukar]

ORIGINAL: jzardos

Thanks for the link, great resource. But curious why both the DB and TB should be set to alt of 13k? Always thought the TB should be around 6k? Was I wrong this whole time? Or is it that at the same alt, they are protected better by the CAP at 15k alt? Also, should training be 100%? That does not wear down the pilots and morale? Maybe that does matter if they gain exp faster? Thoughts?

Actually now, since US F4F-3 and 4 have best maneuvering up to 20k, it's advisable to put both at 15k. 15 k is highest altitude from where DBs do dive bombing (which is what you want). TBs with torpedoes will drop to 200 ft regardless of initial altitude.

Same altitude for both is beneficial for getting coordinated strike. And being high, your escorts are 2k over them..so if CAP is at 15k and escorts are at 17k, it offsets a bit the inherent disadvantage of escorts vs. CAP.

[jzardos]

Oh hehe, Sardaukar. Great job BTW!!
[&o][&o][&o][&o]

Going through your AAR right now in my game vs human allies. PH was decimated ... lost many BBs sunk and many other with high damaged on first turn. Wonder how much that will hurt me in later phases of game, since I probably won't have much of original BB force left if PH gets hit again next turn.

[geofflambert]

Sardaukar's logic is unassailable. I just have a different logic based on different concerns. In a carrier battle, I'm not so much worried about the escorts, you'll lose a bunch. I tend to send in the TBs at 5k and the DBs at 10k. Remember what happened at Midway, the IJN CAP came down to intercept the TBs and were too low to go back up and stop the DBs. Now you'll get some of this result regardless because the TBs will drop down to about 5k as they approach the target anyway. Some of you escort will get assigned to both groups (hopefully). Another reason I do this is because if there's overcast or precipitation over the target, the lower you are the more likely your bombers will find the target. I don't know for a fact that that is factored into battle resolution in the game, I just do it anyway. In addition, if the TBs are carrying bombs because of the range or you're just out of them, they'll be more likely to score hits.

How do you decide between these two tactics? I dunno, flip a coin I guess.

[rockmedic109]

You can put a sub base in the Aleutians as well. I think it is Adak can be built to port size 6. A good site for subs hunting the northern Japanese isles.

Midway and Wake make good spots for an Advanced Sub base. Wake will be a little more exposed if KB is still running around. You will want to move your advanced sub bases forward as the "front lines" move forward with your advance.

And use those fleet boats! Just because they have an enormous dud rate, they are still gaining experience. And they will still kill ships, even if fweer of them.

Dive bombing from 14K used to put your dive bombers in groups of 9 for their bombing runs. It was groups of 4 if set to 10K. When facing KB or other high value naval units, you want the higher alt; AAA hits them from the higher alt on in/egress making it safer and groups of 9 are more likely to have all your ordnance spent on high value units rather than a hapless xAKL. Conversly, if you are gunning for a lot of merchies, you want the lower alt so you can spread the love around to more ships.

Consider anything in Singapore as lost. Anything they can do is icing on the cake. The more supply, the longer they can hold out. Sir Robin down the peninsula with as much as you can.

Same is true for Soerabaja. Get them the supplies they need to die a glorious death and have movies made about them for the next 50 years. If you try to hold both Batavia and Soerabaja, you are splitting your forces, but I have a hard time just handing Batavia over. It's just too big. Make them pay for it.

Same for the Philippines. You can load up some units on single ship task forces the first day and send them to Darwin, but don't expect them all to make it. Only try to move non-combat units. Keep anything with a AV there to fight. Keep the B-17s long enough to bomb every port in range and bag a few at anchor. If you're lucky, you can hit a bunch of escorts which will make your sub battle much easier.

If Japan makes subsequent attacks on Pearl, there is not much you can do to prevent it. Subs might be able to bag a flat top but are more likely to just alert them to their presence with a premature torp explosion. But further attacks on Pearl is not a bad thing. It uses up precious naval pilots. Hitting an alerted Pearl is like wearing a shirt of flowers and smacking a bee hive when you're allergic to bees. We'll, maybe not quite that bad.....

[jzardos]

ORIGINAL: rockmedic109

You can put a sub base in the Aleutians as well. I think it is Adak can be built to port size 6. A good site for subs hunting the northern Japanese isles.

Midway and Wake make good spots for an Advanced Sub base. Wake will be a little more exposed if KB is still running around. You will want to move your advanced sub bases forward as the "front lines" move forward with your advance.

And use those fleet boats! Just because they have an enormous dud rate, they are still gaining experience. And they will still kill ships, even if fweer of them.

Dive bombing from 14K used to put your dive bombers in groups of 9 for their bombing runs. It was groups of 4 if set to 10K. When facing KB or other high value naval units, you want the higher alt; AAA hits them from the higher alt on in/egress making it safer and groups of 9 are more likely to have all your ordnance spent on high value units rather than a hapless xAKL. Conversly, if you are gunning for a lot of merchies, you want the lower alt so you can spread the love around to more ships.

Consider anything in Singapore as lost. Anything they can do is icing on the cake. The more supply, the longer they can hold out. Sir Robin down the peninsula with as much as you can.

Same is true for Soerabaja. Get them the supplies they need to die a glorious death and have movies made about them for the next 50 years. If you try to hold both Batavia and Soerabaja, you are splitting your forces, but I have a hard time just handing Batavia over. It's just too big. Make them pay for it.

Same for the Philippines. You can load up some units on single ship task forces the first day and send them to Darwin, but don't expect them all to make it. Only try to move non-combat units. Keep anything with a AV there to fight. Keep the B-17s long enough to bomb every port in range and bag a few at anchor. If you're lucky, you can hit a bunch of escorts which will make your sub battle much easier.

If Japan makes subsequent attacks on Pearl, there is not much you can do to prevent it. Subs might be able to bag a flat top but are more likely to just alert them to their presence with a premature torp explosion. But further attacks on Pearl is not a bad thing. It uses up precious naval pilots. Hitting an alerted Pearl is like wearing a shirt of flowers and smacking a bee hive when you're allergic to bees. We'll, maybe not quite that bad.....

Great advice and some comic relief too, hehe love it rockmedic.

[cantona2]

Use your subs aggressively. S Boats, RN and Dutch boats to sink his ships. US Fleet boats to recon and eventually you'll get a fish that'll go boom.

[zuluhour]

There are some AARs which have just started and many older ones by vets above. Start a couple, find one which suits you and compare notes. Plenty of "tactical" advice is always here. Strategic insight is also well cited by several players. I don't want to recommend one myself because I read half a dozen for different reasons. There are the "classic" ones which players with intimate knowledge of the system itself max out the game on one hand, and others, "romantic" (that's you guys LADM Sprior and Capt'n Mandrake) which provide an alternate side of the war.[:D]

[MDDgames]

ORIGINAL: Feltan

Perhaps I am the only one, but I try to evacuate as much as I can.

If you are lucky: you can get one to three base forces out of the Philippines, and a ton of units out of Singapore. You can't keep them in supply, and they are doomed anyway. Everything you get out gives you some options for a second defense line (Australia for the Philippine units, and Port Blair, Calcutta, various islands for the Singapore evacuees).

Other than that, run away. Run your carriers south/southeast and keep them out of harms way. Losing the two CV TF's early is foolish, and you'll pay for it for over a couple of years. Keep Saratoga in port --- there are subs waiting for you!

Regards,
Feltan

I agree. the few times I play allies, I pack up everything I can from Malaya and Java and get the hell out of town. Esp Dutch base forces. They are way too handy to let die. The only thing you are going to do to the Japs is delay them a little. Frankly, as good as that sounds to the allies, the Jap player (or I should say the SMART Jap player) is going to stop his rampaging in June anyways regardless if you put up roadblocks or not.

I find its better to hold the line where you KNOW he cant keep pushing.

[zuluhour]

If you just pack up and leave the IJA will be in India or Australia before spring.

[Canoerebel]

It's natural for alert, wary, overwhelmed newbies to want to pack up and skedaddle. Better to live and fight another day after getting some experience under the belt. Perfectly understandable. But Zulu is right. There are many good places to defend and there are many opportunties to sting or slow Japan. The only problem is that it usually takes experience - drat it! - to know when and where.

[geofflambert]

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

If you just pack up and leave the IJA will be in India or Australia before spring.

In my last PBEM against a competent Japanese player, he took all of northern Australia only to have to bug out when I invaded Burma (from India, having abandoned it til I could build up sufficient forces). Any time the Japanese invade India or Australia more likely than not they're overreaching. Having them waste troops in those places is a good thing for the Allied player.

[zuluhour]

CG2?

[Numdydar]

This is very ture because I have done this as Japan lol.

The issue is you know that '42 is your time to run rampant as there is not much in your way to stop you. I can attest, not only is this a bad idea as Japan, it is very hard to resist. After who does not want as Japan to show the Allies what Japan REALLY could have done if they were in charge [:D]

While northern Oz is very doable, it gains you very little in the long run as you sure as heck will not be able to keep it if the Allies want it back [:(]

I got to Noemea in my game and found out that omg it is a LONG way to there from Rabual or Truk. Talk about exposed lol.

Against the AI (unless you are playing Ironman) there is almost nothing you can do as the Allies and lose. Of course against a human you really need to draw a line and risk everything to hold it. Otherwise it is very easy for Japan to get an AV in '43 just by overruning China. So you need to hold onto high VP locations that Japan did not get in the real war that are outside of China, like Darwin, Calcutta, Cylon, etc.

[Numdydar]

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

CG2?

Scenerio 2 campaign game where Japan gets extra oil, pilots, ships, (mainly DDs) to give them a more sporting chance [:D]. Mainly used for PBEM games.

If you want a harder AI Japan, then Ironman sceerio is the one you want [:)]

[jzardos]

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

There are some AARs which have just started and many older ones by vets above. Start a couple, find one which suits you and compare notes. Plenty of "tactical" advice is always here. Strategic insight is also well cited by several players. I don't want to recommend one myself because I read half a dozen for different reasons. There are the "classic" ones which players with intimate knowledge of the system itself max out the game on one hand, and others, "romantic" (that's you guys LADM Sprior and Capt'n Mandrake) which provide an alternate side of the war.[:D]

So, if it's ok to ask, which are the elite AAR (players) to look at? I'd prefer to leverage some of their vast knowledge to prevent my arse getting kicked around for 3-4 years [X(]

[jzardos]

So what do people think I should do with all the B18 Bolo MB? Train them for?

[Encircled]

Low Naval bombing or ASW at a guess

I'm still using mine as ASW aircraft in April '43, and they suck, but at least they take the place of decent aircraft that I can use on the front line.