How to Deal with Flying Fuel Birds

[mmarquo]

My first experience with supercharged panzers was sometime ago in a match against the undisputed master of WITE logistics, MT. Back then I was befuddled by the logistical magic. Now, he and others notably MTours (in my current match) have learned to squeeze the system to the maximum, using bombers as magical fuel depots. This allows them forgo the normal constraints of logistics, and decimate the unwary Soviet.

Here is one method to obtain intelligence, and at least prepare for the next turn's onslaught. Not being caught unaware is worth a lot. You need to use the battle report from the Commander report or the on map visualization of the battles (F11) and the unit status visual aid.

Scan the map for the parachute/airlift icons, and then look at the report on the upper right of the screen and/or read the battle report. In the posted example there were multiple airdrops of supplies; you can air recon the hex for units; no unit is there so it was probably a drop to an HQ. Then scan for the visualized units' status. Here the panzer in Orel is glowing red so probably not a threat unless it gets a big dump during logistics phase/ In any event, I know that a larger air lift of supplies was done in the indicated region so I will take adequate precautions here.

Marquo

[Ketza]

That and set your intercepts really high!

[Peltonx]

If you do combat before air drops your not going to see much if any SHC planes intercepting.

Their are tactics GHC can use to make sure very few fuel pigs get shot down and every turn is a turkey shot for LW.

vs bigbaba 13000 planes shot down between turns 6 and 54 for a loss of a few hundred fighters.

[Dangun]

Refueling tanks by air drop is such a ridiculous idea, its embarrassing.

[gingerbread]

Does the DL of the recipient ground units make a difference to the interception probability? I would assume that it is the DL of the AB that the fuel flight originates from that is applicable.

[Flaviusx]

WITE2 will fix it. Until then, you either play with house rules restricting this, or take a pass on PBEM.

[Dangun]

WITE2 will fix it.

Will they?
Its not a bug. Its a deliberate inclusion.
Somebody must have thought this very particular a-historical fantasy was a good idea.

[Flaviusx]

The entire air model is getting a do over in WITW. So, yeah. I really don't think this sort of cheese will survive the revamp. Or lots of other issues currently plaguing the existing air model. It's a totally new air model, bearing little or no relation to the present one.

[Disgruntled Veteran]

ORIGINAL: Dangun

Refueling tanks by air drop is such a ridiculous idea, its embarrassing.

No its just a bit overpowered. Air drops to front line units was incorporated throughout the war.

[Flaviusx]

No, it's stupid and ahistorical. People need to stop making apologies for this. Large scale fuel drops to front line mechanized units that kept them going forever and ever just didn't happen. I don't think this even possible today, or perhaps ever.

[Aurelian]

It took all of the Luftwaffe's transport capacity to supply the Demyansk pocket, which had two operational airfields.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demyansk_Pocket

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

The entire air model is getting a do over in WITW. So, yeah. I really don't think this sort of cheese will survive the revamp. Or lots of other issues currently plaguing the existing air model. It's a totally new air model, bearing little or no relation to the present one.

I would not be so sure about the "or lots of other things"

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

No, it's stupid and ahistorical. People need to stop making apologies for this. Large scale fuel drops to front line mechanized units that kept them going forever and ever just didn't happen. I don't think this even possible today, or perhaps ever.

Your 100% right about this being Middle Earth, but do not count your chickens before they hatch.

[mmarquo]

We all agree that flying fuel pigs are a complete fantasy, but this thread is about how to counter the ploy. Any more suggestions?

[Flaviusx]

Marquo, I do not believe there is an adequate response to it. There are a number of inadequate measures you can take, but frankly, my own response to it is to just say no and not play against an opponent determined to ignore logistical constraints. They're just gaming the system at that point. They're welcome to do that against some other sucker.

[Aurelian]

ORIGINAL: Marquo

We all agree that flying fuel pigs are a complete fantasy, but this thread is about how to counter the ploy. Any more suggestions?

Outside of lots of interceptors flying night and day, or bombing the airfields over and over, the only other counter is not to play.

[Bozo_the_Clown]

I agree with all the concerns regarding bomber fuel delivery. It's a joke! But please don't discourage other players from playing this game.

Marquo, if you consider playing against a relative newbie like me worthy, I would be very interested in playing a game with strict house rules. These house rules would include no bomber fuel deliveries (JU52 is fine) and no HQ buildups for both sides. To balance it the Soviets would have to hold certain cities until a specific turn or auto victory kicks in. Additional rules could be negotiated. I would be willing to play either side.

Regarding the counter-measures against Luftwaffe fuel deliveries. Didn't Sapper222 come up with a solution in his game against smokingdave? I believe he just bombed the air fields over and over again without any regards to losses.

Also, has anyone tried fighter sweeps against the Axis. This is the tactic were you plan a bombing run with lots of fighters and deselect the bombers before launch. I haven't tried it out against the Axis. I generally have no time to test things. I just play games and try things out as I go.

[Flaviusx]

No, Sapper cheesed the air system in an entirely different way. Spam bombing. Getting rid of air supply was merely collateral damage of the Luftwaffe being bombed into submission (or rather, intercepted into submission via offensive air sweeps) and at any rate that takes a long time to pull off and won't help you in 1941. A year or two down the line the Luftwaffe disappears, another problem with the existing air system for somebody willing to abuse it sufficiently. And another problem that I believe will go away in WITW.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

The game is still fine for solo play, but you have to be very wary going into any PBEM match, especially against veterans who have cracked the system and have no compunctions of making it do whatever they want to do regardless of common sense or fair play.

[Bozo_the_Clown]

Two wrongs do not make a right.

I agree. But don't you think it would be possible to set up house rules to get rid of all this crap? Wouldn't that slow down the game and make it more enjoyable?

[SigUp]

ORIGINAL: Bozo_the_Clown

Two wrongs do not make a right.

I agree. But don't you think it would be possible to set up house rules to get rid of all this crap? Wouldn't that slow down the game and make it more enjoyable?

Well, I mean what lower logistics can do on a small scale is something me and loki are testing right now. On a bigger scale an important question remains, if the German advance is slowed down by logistics to a historic level, what effect will the same settings have on the Soviet blizzard offensive? Because as it is, the blizzard is way overpowered in its own sense. So it is kind of senseless if historical German advance means Soviet forces on the Dnepr come February 42.