AI for MWiF-Italy

[brian brian]

Going back to Malta decisions for Italy. First decision - set up extra divisions via breakdown. Downsides: Increases risk of pre-emptive CW DOW unless you pull the trigger on the Axis second impulse of the game. Not necessary for kitchen sink Barbarossa, but perhaps is a good, small feint at set-up.

Is closing the Med part of the strategy list? Then invade Malta on a surprise impulse when empty should possibly weigh more than invading an empty Oran on a surprise impulse. An empty Malta should weigh high when the Axis is planning an anti-CW strategy. Any defense of Malta will have to trigger a multi-turn plan to take it, possibly with the help of some German units, though a valid option is to take Gibraltar first.

[michaelbaldur]

with a large RAF backing a potent US Army. Would Churchill go for that?

he did.

if you look at France and Italy. there USA had more troops then the CW. (something like a 1/3 was CW)

but how do we define CW units.

if we look at units from UK, they were a minority on the battlefields

[brian brian]

I mean to the point of not building and deploying Montgomery's army group, thus not taking the objective hex of Kiel with Commonwealth boots on the ground, for example, though come to think of it, the Germans held that one at the end of the Mar/Apr 45 turn. Anyway, that can happen in game of WiF but would be completely un-Churchill-like.

RAF fighter-bombers were certainly potent teamed up with US Army ground units at times. It probably helped tremendously that those 2 Allies both spoke the same language. I just don't see the Italian air force serving very well as flying artillery for the Wehrmacht, but in the game it works flawlessly. Not something MWiF can address but has to be considered for just exactly what the AI might do. We know what the players do.

[peskpesk]

Here is a rough outline of how Italy could attack Egypt. Here is what I have so far:
(The situation could be when France is "Viched" or when Italy is only at war with Commonwealth)

Dominate Eastern Mediterranean Sea
- Major Air force in Sicily, FTR adjacent costal hexes

• 2 Box

- Threaten port strike on CW navy
- Stop reinforcements
- …

Tobruk/Bardia(red)
- Land attack along the Coast

• Alexandria
• Adjacent hexes to Alexandria
• Rebase planes to try to cut Red Sea supply

- Outflanking sacrifice force, go around Qattara Depression

• Asyut
• Cairo

- Reinforce

Palestine(grey)
+Invade
- Land attack along the Coast

• Suez Canal
• Port Said
• Jerusalem

- Attack Jordan

• Amman

- Rebase planes to try to cut Red Sea supply
- Reinforce

Cyprus(Light blue)
+Invade

• Farmagusta

- Air support possibilities
- Para drop possibilities
- Support Central Egypt coast/ Palestine invasions
- Reinforce

Central Egypt coast(yellow)
+ Invade

• Damietta

- Expand inland

• Port Said
• Suez
• Cairo
• Suez Canal

- Try to cut Alexandria supply
- Rebase planes to try to cut Red Sea supply
- Reinforce



Suggestions?

[Centuur]

Add: capture Anglo-Egyptian Soedan out of Eritrea/Etiopia...

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: Centuur

Add: capture Anglo-Egyptian Soedan out of Eritrea/Etiopia...

I think that is already added but in the plan for Italian East Africa.

[Orm]

Maybe the invasion Egypt area (yellow) should include Port Said?

[composer99]

Yes, Port Said should be in the Italian AIO's invasion area. Especially if not playing with the amphibious invasion rules (such that corps-size units can invade of TRS).

Granted that cautious CW play would leave Port Said either covered by a unit or in a ZoC, or failing that have the ability to knock an invading division back into the sea, nevertheless, if for some reason it's open, it's a great spot to invade.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

It might even be possible to invade Suez directly. Italy would have to pass invasion units through the Suez canal first, and then DOW the Commonwealth and invade. But, an invasion force in the Red Sea might make the Commonwealth defend Aden before Suez.

[Extraneous]

Suez cannot be invaded because while it is a coastal hex it doesn't have 1 all-sea hexside.

11.14 Invasions
Invasions allow land units to attack enemy held coastal hexes in a sea area you have transported them to.

You may only invade an enemy controlled coastal hex that has at least 1 all-sea hexside (at least part, but not necessarily all, of this coastal hexside must touch upon the sea area where the TRS is located). You can only invade with face-up land units on TRSs in the sea area. The TRS must be in the 1, 2, 3 or 4 section of the sea-box. Only infantry class units can invade.

[Orm]

Aden is now a mountain city making it an unlikely target for invasion by a division even during a surprise.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

Suez cannot be invaded because while it is a coastal hex it doesn't have 1 all-sea hexside.

11.14 Invasions
Invasions allow land units to attack enemy held coastal hexes in a sea area you have transported them to.

You may only invade an enemy controlled coastal hex that has at least 1 all-sea hexside (at least part, but not necessarily all, of this coastal hexside must touch upon the sea area where the TRS is located). You can only invade with face-up land units on TRSs in the sea area. The TRS must be in the 1, 2, 3 or 4 section of the sea-box. Only infantry class units can invade.

True.[:(] But the hex next to Suez can be invaded and is also next to Cairo; capturing the latter conquers Egypt.[:)]

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Orm

Aden is now a mountain city making it an unlikely target for invasion by a division even during a surprise.

But if there are a lot of Commonwealth naval units present, it would be a tempting target.

[gridley]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

Suez cannot be invaded because while it is a coastal hex it doesn't have 1 all-sea hexside.

11.14 Invasions
Invasions allow land units to attack enemy held coastal hexes in a sea area you have transported them to.

You may only invade an enemy controlled coastal hex that has at least 1 all-sea hexside (at least part, but not necessarily all, of this coastal hexside must touch upon the sea area where the TRS is located). You can only invade with face-up land units on TRSs in the sea area. The TRS must be in the 1, 2, 3 or 4 section of the sea-box. Only infantry class units can invade.

True.[:(] But the hex next to Suez can be invaded and is also next to Cairo; capturing the latter conquers Egypt.[:)]

So...looks like I have found a pretty major rule we have been playing wrong for too many years for me to mention.

We read "must touch upon the sea area where the TRS is located" to mean the hex had to touch the dark blue sea area in order to invade it. [&:]

Oh well...I'm sure it won't be the last.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: gridley

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

Suez cannot be invaded because while it is a coastal hex it doesn't have 1 all-sea hexside.

True.[:(] But the hex next to Suez can be invaded and is also next to Cairo; capturing the latter conquers Egypt.[:)]

So...looks like I have found a pretty major rule we have been playing wrong for too many years for me to mention.

We read "must touch upon the sea area where the TRS is located" to mean the hex had to touch the dark blue sea area in order to invade it. [&:]

Oh well...I'm sure it won't be the last.

Here is how MWIF handles this confusing rule. In the main form the dark blue panel normally identifies to which sea areas the hex (under the cursor) is adjacent. Unless the text string "(no invasion)" is shown, then the hex can be invaded from the named sea area. This solution was a suggestion by Michael (Baldur).

I have pasted in an extra set of blue and maroon panels to show two hexes. Normally the large white panel in the upper right shows the UnitData for either a single unit under the cursor, or summary data for a group of units under the cursor. Since both of these hexes are empty, it was just a blank white area, so I pasted in the panels for hex (45, 36).

So, (46,36) cannot be invaded from the Baltic but can be invaded from the North Sea. Hex (45, 36) is adjacent to the same two sea areas, but from which one it can be invaded, is reversed.

---

Yesterday I was re-recording Chapter 6 of the Training Videos (previously recorded 4 years ago and sadly out-of-date) and used this example.

[Plainian]

Steve or anyone? Can someone mark up the hex on map below which is next to Suez and Cairo and is invadeable.....so i can follow this thread.

Not sure if the invasion is coming from the E.Med or Red Sea?

There was an excellent thread on invadeable coastal hexes a few years ago but I need a refresher on this if someone doesn't mind.

Edit - just to add that yes I can see which hex it should b,e but it doesn't look like a hex which can be invaded?

ORIGINAL: peskpesk

[Extraneous]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
True.[:(] But the hex next to Suez can be invaded and is also next to Cairo; capturing the latter conquers Egypt.[:)]

You can only do that if you use free set up.

Because unless you use free set up Italy is a Neutral major power and it's fleet sets up in Italy or Albania.

So Italy couldn't even send an SCS through Suez (a coastal/minor port hex).

9.1 Neutral major powers
A major power is a ‘neutral major power’ if it is not at war with any other major power. If it is at war with at least 1 major power, it’s called an ‘active major power’.

Units controlled by a neutral major power can only enter hexes controlled by that major power, by a minor country aligned with it, or by a minor country it is at war with. They can also go to sea.

A neutral major power can’t co-operate with any other major power (see 18.Co-operation)

Neutral major powers must always pick either a pass or a combined action (exception Germany in 1939 ~ see 10.1). Each naval unit a neutral major power moves (rather than each task force) counts as 1 naval move - every 5 convoy points counts as a naval unit (SiF option 9: every 2 convoy points (or any spare point) is a naval unit).

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Plain Ian

Steve or anyone? Can someone mark up the hex on map below which is next to Suez and Cairo and is invadeable.....so i can follow this thread.

Not sure if the invasion is coming from the E.Med or Red Sea?

There was an excellent thread on invadeable coastal hexes a few years ago but I need a refresher on this if someone doesn't mind.

Edit - just to add that yes I can see which hex it should b,e but it doesn't look like a hex which can be invaded?

ORIGINAL: peskpesk

The desert hex east of Cairo has two all-sea hexsides on the Red Sea (the Gulf of Suez technically). So it can be invaded from the Red Sea. Suez itself does not have an all-sea hexside - it has two hexsides on the Suez Canal instead.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
True.[:(] But the hex next to Suez can be invaded and is also next to Cairo; capturing the latter conquers Egypt.[:)]

You can only do that if you use free set up.

Because unless you use free set up Italy is a Neutral major power and it's fleet sets up in Italy or Albania.

So Italy couldn't even send an SCS through Suez (a coastal/minor port hex).

9.1 Neutral major powers
A major power is a ‘neutral major power’ if it is not at war with any other major power. If it is at war with at least 1 major power, it’s called an ‘active major power’.

Units controlled by a neutral major power can only enter hexes controlled by that major power, by a minor country aligned with it, or by a minor country it is at war with. They can also go to sea.

A neutral major power can’t co-operate with any other major power (see 18.Co-operation)

Neutral major powers must always pick either a pass or a combined action (exception Germany in 1939 ~ see 10.1). Each naval unit a neutral major power moves (rather than each task force) counts as 1 naval move - every 5 convoy points counts as a naval unit (SiF option 9: every 2 convoy points (or any spare point) is a naval unit).

Neutrals can move units through the Suez Canal. So as long as Italy isn't at war with the Commonwealth, Italy can move one of it transports with a range of 3 from Italy to the Italian Coast, Eastern Med, and then into the Red Sea. It could do that in the first impulse of the game. If need be, in the third impulse it could return to base to an Italian port on the Red Sea (Asmara in Eritrea), be reorganized by the Italian HQ which starts in Ethiopia, and go back to sea in the Red Sea in a higher section box in the fifth impulse.

This is all rather fanciful, for the Commonwealth player is likely to send some naval units (or naval air units) into the Red Sea to attack the lonely Italian transport, probably during the second or fourth impulse of the turn.

---

I think there was a discussion of Italy sending its transport through the straits of Gibraltar during the first impulse not too long ago. The idea there was that it could not be attacked in the first two impulses, so it had nothing to fear. Then in the third impulse it would return to base to a German port, giving the Axis another sea lift unit for invading the United Kingdom later in the game.

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: Plain Ian

Steve or anyone? Can someone mark up the hex on map below which is next to Suez and Cairo and is invadeable.....so i can follow this thread.

Not sure if the invasion is coming from the E.Med or Red Sea?

There was an excellent thread on invadeable coastal hexes a few years ago but I need a refresher on this if someone doesn't mind.

Edit - just to add that yes I can see which hex it should b,e but it doesn't look like a hex which can be invaded?

ORIGINAL: peskpesk

Here is a close up map of the Suez Canal.