CLOSED The old world vs the new: Cannonfodder (Allies) vs Quixote (Japan)

[pontiouspilot]

I think you are starting to sound like the Black Knight in a Monty Pythons movie!! This has every potential to knock Britain/India out for good. The best you can do in either India or Aus is to buy as much time as you can. In my humble estimation you must be VERY aggressive where he is not, even in '42. At this point you have at least 10-14 days without KB to worry about. You may have 30 days if he moves quickly to Bombay/Pakistan. Use those pristine BBs, lose a couple if need be ....blow the hell outa Truk and everything east. Grab a quicker than normal toehold west out of Alaska. That might scare the hell outa him as Japan starts with 3 wheelbarrows and a donkey in the Kuriles.

[KenchiSulla]

ORIGINAL: pontiouspilot

I think you are starting to sound like the Black Knight in a Monty Pythons movie!! This has every potential to knock Britain/India out for good. The best you can do in either India or Aus is to buy as much time as you can. In my humble estimation you must be VERY aggressive where he is not, even in '42. At this point you have at least 10-14 days without KB to worry about. You may have 30 days if he moves quickly to Bombay/Pakistan. Use those pristine BBs, lose a couple if need be ....blow the hell outa Truk and everything east. Grab a quicker than normal toehold west out of Alaska. That might scare the hell outa him as Japan starts with 3 wheelbarrows and a donkey in the Kuriles.

You can't blow the crap out of Truk with a couple of BBs without air cover. He only needs 15+ G4Ms to stop an attack like that. And he has them in position or will have them within a day or two once I get detected while moving in.

Also, to attack positions you need troops. I do not have sufficient troops available for offensive action. If I had a division available I would use it to reinforce a already held position. Ofcourse I could pull of a carrier raid. It would just give away the position of the carriers. Currently he doesn't know where they are so he needs to take them into account in his plans. Hence, no unescorted invasions. Every major landing he made was under cover.

I have been on the receiving end of early allied raids. They are annoying. Nothing more...

To knock out India means taking many major cities over a large area. Also garrisons need to be used to stop the locals from wrecking his supply lines and bases.. He is in a good position but still very far from knocking out Britain or India.

[zuluhour]

I must say, you have what it takes to play Allied in CG2. Imperial Japan is a bully in a candy store. If you pull a knife he'll pull a gun. The correct temperament must be assumed early and often. Look for tactical victories to soil his moral and stymie his strategy. Project power only when absolutely necessary to further your aims. Without bringing my own travails here, do think ahead now so that when the time comes you can strike him. India is not a gimme either, with or without Ceylon.

ps I have never attacked Truk by sea. I have been advised against it many times. I can tell you in my CG2 I have no where near the naval aviator pilot pool needed to replace what's on my carriers now (July '42). Risking Capital ships for temporary discomfort for the IJN naval station at Truk simply isn't worth it. I would advise judicious use of PPs and try and bank what you can. Maximize the use of support ships, ie. tenders, PTs, etc.. US subs are of little use above fear factor and mining for a long time. Extend seaplane bases to cover sealanes and give early warning. Build and STOCK a forward area or two out of the way but in proximity to expected future lines of advance and supply to New Zealand and Australia. Careful forethought with the marine def bns placements and navy base forces. Now I ramble.

[KenchiSulla]

Thanks for your comments Zulu. Always appreciated!

Battle for SIAN

Flank protection by Quixote is weak. My biggest concern is the slow movement of Group C. Quixote might blitz Sian and after that fall back two divisions to hold of the assault.

If he is not able to take Sian by shock attack I have a decent chance of stabilising the situation.

[KenchiSulla]

4-jan-1942
5-jan-1942

Except for China, the steady advance on Colombo on Ceylon (with one Indian brigade already virtually destroyed by pursuing tank regiments) the most important events currently are.

- CL de Ruyter sunk by submarine
- CL Danae sunk on its way to Capetown due to damage sustained earlier

Japanese carriers are positioning NW of Ceylon. They might start a sweep of the Indian coast. Search assets positioned so I can keep track.

Yorktown receives its escorts and starts the trip to Sydney to join up with her sister ship and Lexington. Saratoga is still in North pacific (undetected). Will move her down after the next unloading of supplies at Dutch. A (Omaha class) cruiser squadron arrivés at Dutch to take over covering the area.

[KenchiSulla]

6-jan-1942

S-40 sinks due to earlier sustained damage (Manila air strike)

The carrier group first identified SE of Diego Garcia (the group that sweeped the NW coast of Australia) is now moving along the western Indian coast towards Bombay. There is not much shipping in the area and most of the ships that are in the area should be able to move off map in time.

What worries me is that I have a taskforce inbound with two tank regiments arriving just NW of Karachi in a few days. Is it possible to reverse course back to Aden if Quixote insists on moving North? (See attached picture where I tried the order in a backup save file)

[KenchiSulla]

7-jan-1942

The group NE of Sian (in China) that was unidentified is recognised as a armoured/mobile assault group. No doubt the goal is to envelop Sian and cut off the 3000 AV in that area. Reinforcements are moving in to protect the rear of Sian but I am not sure I can stop him (but I am trying to cut/limit supply to the units by taking road hexes in the rear).

He might even hold of on attacking Sian now for this group to move into position.

Ground combat at 85,40 (near Sian)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 5080 troops, 8 guns, 537 vehicles, Assault Value = 331

Defending force 17473 troops, 77 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 514

Japanese adjusted assault: 382

Allied adjusted defense: 233

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
153 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 38 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 27 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Vehicles lost 76 (5 destroyed, 71 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
1345 casualties reported
Squads: 3 destroyed, 168 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 6 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled

Assaulting units:
5th Tank Regiment
3rd Tank Regiment
20th Recon Regiment
23rd Tank Regiment
9th Tank Regiment
1st Recon Regiment

Defending units:
1st Chinese Corps
16th Chinese Corps

The carrier group west coast of India went MIA... (uncomfortable)

First elements of the 8th US MC regiment are unloading at Suva. Queen Elizabeth will have to do another trip to fetch the rest of the regiment..

A NZ Brigade is still unloading at Norfolk Island. Apparantly the east coast of Australia is not the target but this base will be helpfull in keeping the lines open.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder

6-jan-1942

S-40 sinks due to earlier sustained damage (Manila air strike)

The carrier group first identified SE of Diego Garcia (the group that sweeped the NW coast of Australia) is now moving along the western Indian coast towards Bombay. There is not much shipping in the area and most of the ships that are in the area should be able to move off map in time.

What worries me is that I have a taskforce inbound with two tank regiments arriving just NW of Karachi in a few days. Is it possible to reverse course back to Aden if Quixote insists on moving North? (See attached picture where I tried the order in a backup save file)

From what I read in AARs, it works most of the time for people. But not always. Michael has commented to the effect that the code has trouble with that and it is not really supported.

[Cap Mandrake]

What worries me is that I have a taskforce inbound with two tank regiments arriving just NW of Karachi in a few days. Is it possible to reverse course back to Aden if Quixote insists on moving North? (See attached picture where I tried the order in a backup save file)

It seems spotty. I once tried to send a damaged BB, which was off map on the way to Cape Town, back to Diego Garcia.


It popped out in the IO near Socotra 3 weeks later with no fuel and 40 system damage. [:)]

Definitely hit "save" before you try it.

[KenchiSulla]

Hi Witpqs, thanks for the information. I tested it on a supply convoy that was heading for Bombay. That one correctly turned around for Africa.

Decided to do the same with the tank convoy. As the carrier group is moving on Karachi and will be exactly in range once the convoy arrives it is losing them for sure on the map or perhaps bugging them out of the map..

What a choice...

[KenchiSulla]

8-jan-1942
9-jan-1942

North Australia
Katherine (only base forces) falls to a tank regiment shock attack. I am moving a recce battalion and motorized brigade in.

China

The battle for Sian rages on. The main base is ignored for now while the mobile force NE of the city tries to break through the two Chinese Corps defending the road:

Ground combat at 85,40 (near Sian)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 4698 troops, 8 guns, 532 vehicles, Assault Value = 265

Defending force 16425 troops, 77 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 377

Japanese adjusted assault: 310

Allied adjusted defense: 191

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(-), fatigue(-), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
222 casualties reported
Squads: 5 destroyed, 16 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
839 casualties reported
Squads: 9 destroyed, 188 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 18 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Guns lost 12 (1 destroyed, 11 disabled)

Assaulting units:
23rd Tank Regiment
20th Recon Regiment
3rd Tank Regiment
9th Tank Regiment
5th Tank Regiment
1st Recon Regiment

Defending units:
1st Chinese Corps
16th Chinese Corps

NoPac

Warspite bombards Adak Island and destroys support squads present there. Together with damaging an AMC (Koumac) and an xAK to on fire / heavy damage (Malacca Straits) thats the best news in days... Slightly depressing..

Night Naval bombardment of Adak Island at 162,52

Allied Ships
BB Warspite

Japanese ground losses:
48 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 4 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Guns lost 1 (1 destroyed, 0 disabled)

Port hits 4
Port supply hits 2

[zuluhour]

Japan has invested Diego Garcia in my game as well. I am not on the stock map and fail to see it's importance. I seldom/never have TFs move directly from the box to map there. Can he recon the box? I don't think so. What am I missing? Perhaps it is to interdict TFs from "the horn" to Ceylon?

[KenchiSulla]

10-jan-1942

CV Group Bombay

They were 6-7 hexes west of Bombay last turn and missing now. I have good coverage in the area so hopefully I'll pick it up tommorow again.

Soutwest Pac.

Cruisers (only ships that start the game in the area, I hope my main body is still undetected) bombard Noumea. No effect so we'll try again tommorow with the floatplanes spotting both night and day, as this bomb run somehow took place by day... If this doesn't work Noumea might fall to a Naval Guard unit..

Anticipated the loss of New Caledonia but having him land some more troops would be nice...


Naval bombardment of Noumea at 115,160

Allied Ships
CA Pensacola
CA Louisville
DD Le Triomphant

CA Pensacola firing at 53rd Naval Guard Unit
CA Louisville firing at 53rd Naval Guard Unit
DD Le Triomphant firing at 53rd Naval Guard Unit

Ground combat at Noumea (115,160)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 1374 troops, 12 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 56

Defending force 624 troops, 17 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 28

Japanese adjusted assault: 44

Allied adjusted defense: 25

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese Assault reduces fortifications to 0

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+), leaders(+), leaders(-)

Japanese ground losses:
57 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 5 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
66 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 11 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
53rd Naval Guard Unit

Defending units:
New Caledonia Det

China

Sian will fall. The tanks to the NE are breaking through, routing one of the corps. First attack on Sian by 2800 AV drops the forts to two (2) and reduce the Chinese by 200 AV to 1200 AV. IJA takes around 300 disabled squads.

I am rerouting reinforcements for Sian to the mountain and forest hex to the west. Going to try and dig in 1500 AV + ATG and Artillery there.

Ground combat at Sian (83,41)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 41341 troops, 439 guns, 291 vehicles, Assault Value = 2829

Defending force 49311 troops, 325 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1432

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 2

Japanese adjusted assault: 700

Allied adjusted defense: 782

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 2)

Combat modifiers
Defender: forts(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
3072 casualties reported
Squads: 14 destroyed, 272 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 21 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 46 disabled
Guns lost 24 (1 destroyed, 23 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
1235 casualties reported
Squads: 13 destroyed, 245 disabled
Non Combat: 3 destroyed, 62 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 20 disabled
Guns lost 27 (1 destroyed, 26 disabled)

Assaulting units:
63rd Division
36th Division
5th Armored Car Co
6th Division
10th Tank Regiment
35th Division
2nd Ind.Mixed Brigade
110th Division
12th Tank Regiment
15th Tank Regiment
32nd Division
11th Tank Regiment
12th Army
North China Area Army
14th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
52nd Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion
51st Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion
Mongol Garrison Army
1st Army
11th Field Artillery Regiment

Defending units:
33rd Chinese Corps
47th Chinese Corps
3rd Chinese Corps
76th Chinese Corps
57th Chinese Corps
38th Chinese Corps
34th Chinese Corps
92nd Chinese Corps
5th War Area
8th Group Army
7th Group Army
34th Group Army
4th Group Army
Red Chinese Army
15th Chinese Base Force

Once Sian falls I'll have 2000 AV stuck behind lines. Thats bad....

[JocMeister]

There arn´t really any defense against the Jap tanks in China and the can operate with impunity. Even suffering 1:4 and even worse they almost never suffer any casualties. [:(]

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

There arn´t really any defense against the Jap tanks in China and the can operate with impunity. Even suffering 1:4 and even worse they almost never suffer any casualties. [:(]

Just like Shermans in 44! [:)]

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

There arn´t really any defense against the Jap tanks in China and the can operate with impunity. Even suffering 1:4 and even worse they almost never suffer any casualties. [:(]

Just like Shermans in 44! [:)]

Well, The Sherman is a proper tank after all. Jap "tanks" are just soapbox cars wrapped in tinfoil that can be taken out by a peasant with pitchfork. [;)]

Besides, I actually lost 2 Shermans on Guam a few days back. Not one but two mind you. Destroyed. Just like that! [X(]

[KenchiSulla]

11-jan-1942
12-jan-1942

Colombo falls. The Japanese now have a large port and staging area to invade India. Indian west coast is closed down by patrolling carriers. The good news is that I am free to reinforce and build up other areas on the map..

The bad news is that I can't move in reinforcements into India leaving it weakly defended....

Rangoon falls to a small IJA group of about 200 AV (the city was held by the AVG ground echelon). The Burma division will rail to Myitkyiana and dig in there.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Well, The Sherman is a proper tank after all. Jap "tanks" are just soapbox cars wrapped in tinfoil that can be taken out by a peasant with pitchfork. [;)]

That's a nice thought if you're playing a game, but I'm sure the real ones were a bit more daunting to a Chinese infantryman with a 20 year old rifle and nothing else.

ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder

11-jan-1942
12-jan-1942

Colombo falls. The Japanese now have a large port and staging area to invade India. Indian west coast is closed down by patrolling carriers. The good news is that I am free to reinforce and build up other areas on the map..

The bad news is that I can't move in reinforcements into India leaving it weakly defended....

Rangoon falls to a small IJA group of about 200 AV (the city was held by the AVG ground echelon). The Burma division will rail to Myitkyiana and dig in there.

to India leaving it weakly defended....

Rangoon falls to a small IJA group of about 200 AV (the city was held by the AVG ground echelon). The Burma division will rail to Myitkyiana and dig in there.

Seeing this kind of thing happen in other games I wouldn't be too worried about losing India if you can do a few things to prepare.

1. Pump a bunch of engineers and supply into Karachi and Bombay and get the forts up fast.

2. Get some extra troops into those cities and make sure your Indian troops aren't cut off from there even if that means giving up Calcutta and/or Madras early.

3. Bring in at east a few US air groups for CAP at Bombay and Karachi.

A real push on India should help you in the long run if you hold him off long enough to take advantage elsewhere as you say. He needs the KB to really shut things down. I say go deep . Marianas and Bonins. Plan now. There won't be much there if he's marching across India. [;)]

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Well, The Sherman is a proper tank after all. Jap "tanks" are just soapbox cars wrapped in tinfoil that can be taken out by a peasant with pitchfork. [;)]

That's a nice thought if you're playing a game, but I'm sure the real ones were a bit more daunting to a Chinese infantryman with a 20 year old rifle and nothing else.

I´m not entirely sure but I don´t think much Japanese armor operated in China so I´m not sure the Chinese saw much armor.

[KenchiSulla]

Thanks for your thoughts guys, much appreciated. Quixote has been a very smart player up till now so I am curious how he will handle the situation. Keeping carriers around India for months to isolate India sounds like a terrible idea. I am already using the situation to reinforce and pick a couple of small fights with his assets in the Pacific.

13th january
14th january

China
Sian falls. I am now in full retreat to better ground. A lot of 1/3 Infantry Corps are coming back online the coming days to reinforce.

Southwest Pacific
Noumea falls to a Naval guard. It is not reinforced by base forces yet and as his carriers are playing in another galaxy far far away (....) so I am looking into how I can make life miserable for the Japanese (without overcommitting).

Java

A small force (including a tank regiment) has landed on Java.

Ground combat at Banjoewangi (57,107)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 1469 troops, 15 guns, 2 vehicles, Assault Value = 118

Defending force 0 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 0

Japanese adjusted assault: 32

Allied adjusted defense: 1

Japanese assault odds: 32 to 1 (fort level 1)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Banjoewangi !!!

Combat modifiers
Attacker:

Assaulting units:
2nd Tank Regiment
Sasebo 8th SNLF


West coast
Sub attack near San Francisco at 217,71

Japanese Ships
SS I-26

Allied Ships
AKV Kittyhawk, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage
DD Case

SS I-26 launches 2 torpedoes at AKV Kittyhawk
DD Case fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub

25 P40s to the bottom of the ocean...

That ruined my morning...