Islands of Destiny: RA 5.0 Japanese Side

[SuluSea]

Good thoughts as always Andre.

I don't remember reading that the RA mod limits allied production other than what's in stock. It will be interesting to read what John says.

[zuluhour]

I think my little comment about defeating him in detail was not only correct but caused "allied depression" syndrome. Congratulations!!!! The moral of the pixels is not nearly as precious as that of the CnC flesh & blood. You sir displayed type "I" (ice blood). I'm sure Dan will take another spin at some point. I will always wonder if the game with Nemo in the wings was not his downfall. It's not just a chess match. It's an adventure. A romantic adventure into the past. The style of play characterized by Nemo, displaying complete ambivalence towards losses at the expense of an attainable objective really isn't in the spirit of AE to me. Again. Kampai!!

[John 3rd]

Thanks everyone for contributing to the decision and discussion here.

To answer specific questions:

1. The variant that Dan and I are playing is 5.7 I think. The Allied numbers are the same as Michael demonstrated with his Posting for 6.0. In RA we added more to starting pools of aircraft and RAISED (by a bit) many Allied starting production numbers. Felt that it was only fair. This Mod--especially the new 6.0--is now (I truly believe) a very well-balanced Mod. The Allied Player now gets many things to help counter the stronger Japanese Fleet in late-42/early-43. Cannot WAIT to see how 6.0 plays out. We drew the Japanese back some and raised the Allies up some. Bet these matches will be FUN!

2. Allied Fighter Pools seem to me to be realistic given the situation. For the Allies to go on the OFFENSIVE into the heart of the Empire in mid-1942 is a huge mistake (my opinion). They simply don't have the well-rounded resources to fight toe-to-toe. Given that I didn't respond rashly to the situation and took my time to build-up, set the table, and THEN push back in a systematic manner I think really aided the situation. The Allies have HUGE resources (even as early as 1942) but they don't have DEPTH within them. There is grave risk in making a strong offensive push this early in the game. My thoughts are that the pools are decent if the Allied Player is careful with the fights he wages. Dan is a great veteran of this game and KNOWS the dangers of what he was attempting to do.

3. An offensive like what he started present a huge OPPORTUNITY for the Empire. If you look back in the AAR you will see that I immediately grasped the opportunity as it was presented with the Sumatra Invasion. In my view, Dan's single biggest mistake is that he didn't go FAR ENOUGH. His lunge should have been to grab Sumatra AND Malaya OR Java. This would have presented such a challenge and inherent danger that I do not know if I could have recovered. While bold the plan wasn't bold enough. His passivity then allowed me to get the pieces in play and set-up the genuine opportunity for Japan to achieve a DECISIVE VICTORY by February--March 1943. Once I realized that this situation was Operation Cartwheel in reverse then the entire plan fell into place. IMO the Allied Forces would have been destroyed.

4. The decision to not evacuate northern and central Burma really worked. Many of you said to get out, fall back, and pray (paraphrase! [8D]). I didn't and managed to hold the same line and beat his northern troops 3-4 times during the 6-8 weeks since the Invasion of Sumatra. His choice to place nearly all of his frontline fighters into Sabang really allowed my airpower to be a major factor in Burma negating a good chunk of his ground advantage. Would love to see if the offensive I had begun would have worked...

5. CR needed to open a second front and his move into Noumea was an attempt to do this but it was in the wrong place. Prudence led me to not pull out everything when I moved west. This decision allowed me to stymie his offensive from the very beginning and (since the last attack Jan 3rd scored a near 3-1 result. We were within a few days of 15,000 Allied Troops surrendering at Noumea (and the destruction of 5 Brigades).

This should provide some serious discussion potential...

[John 3rd]

I missed out of the HR comment. What do you mean regarding loosening HR?

[John 3rd]

Did some looking into RA 5.7 and did find something interesting within the Editor. Sent this note to Dan:


Hey Sir.

Just took the time to go through our Mod File. We’re in RA 5.7. The first three models of the P-38 are fine, however, the last three were set to ZERO production. While a great discovery, those three models come in later then where we are at: P-38H 6-43, P-38J 12-43, and P-38L is 6-44. This would have been a significant issue starting in June of 43 and I do not know how they could have been turned off but it is fantastic that you made me look. The earlier models are producing but the later ones are screwed up.

Gonna jump into 6.0 to see if the same issue is there as well.


While not impacting our current situation there would have been issues!

[John 3rd]

Same problem in the new unreleased variant 6.0. FIXED in both now.

[rev rico]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Did some looking into RA 5.7 and did find something interesting within the Editor. Sent this note to Dan:


Hey Sir.

Just took the time to go through our Mod File. We’re in RA 5.7. The first three models of the P-38 are fine, however, the last three were set to ZERO production. While a great discovery, those three models come in later then where we are at: P-38H 6-43, P-38J 12-43, and P-38L is 6-44. This would have been a significant issue starting in June of 43 and I do not know how they could have been turned off but it is fantastic that you made me look. The earlier models are producing but the later ones are screwed up.

Gonna jump into 6.0 to see if the same issue is there as well.


While not impacting our current situation there would have been issues!

Is there a way to correct a current game? I believe my opponent & I are in 5.7 and are in July 42. I'd hate to go on if something is wrong. Please advise.

thanks
Bob

[Wuffer]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd


(...) it is fantastic that you made me look. The earlier models are producing but the later ones are screwed up.

I'm sure this lift his sprits

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

2. Allied Fighter Pools seem to me to be realistic given the situation. For the Allies to go on the OFFENSIVE into the heart of the Empire in mid-1942 is a huge mistake (my opinion). They simply don't have the well-rounded resources to fight toe-to-toe. Given that I didn't respond rashly to the situation and took my time to build-up, set the table, and THEN push back in a systematic manner I think really aided the situation. The Allies have HUGE resources (even as early as 1942) but they don't have DEPTH within them. There is grave risk in making a strong offensive push this early in the game. My thoughts are that the pools are decent if the Allied Player is careful with the fights he wages. Dan is a great veteran of this game and KNOWS the dangers of what he was attempting to do.

Yes, that basically sums it up I think. Its was too early. Had CR pulled that move in mid 43 it would have been an entirely different story. The allies simply cannot sustain that heavy fighting in 42. As an allied player I strongly believe 42 is a time for small needle pins here and there and building up where the Japanese are not.

Allied fighter pools are extremely fragile. Even in 44. This has to govern every move an allied player do. "Can I sustain this and is it worth the cost"

If I remember correctly CR was struggling with fighter pools even before he pulled off his invasion. He was warned numerous times in his AAR. I think reality catching up with him was a hard blow (as it would be to anyone). I almost quit my game two times but my opponent persuaded me to continue. I´m glad he did because it has been a great learning experience.

Hopefully after getting some time away from the game CR will realize that while this is a huge setback he can still recover. By late 43 and early 44 he will be as strong as ever. It would really be a shame to see this game go end like this.

Besides, you did do everything right and CR paid the price for it. So well done! [:)]

[crsutton]

As long as the Allied player keeps his carriers intact, I see no disaster that can not be recovered from. I told this to Dan.

[Cpt Sherwood]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Same problem in the new unreleased variant 6.0. FIXED in both now.

In the playtest scenario 56 that you sent out, the P-38 production was right.

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

As long as the Allied player keeps his carriers intact, I see no disaster that can not be recovered from. I told this to Dan.

Even losing all your carries including the first batch of CVEs and most of you navy you can recover as the allies. [:)]

[SuluSea]

I'll be the first to say I don't work in the editor very much but looking at the models in scenario 1 stock I'm confused as I look at the build rate for the P-38s.


I went to bed last night thinking you just get the groups that come on the map.

Someone clarifying what's happening here would be cool.[:)]

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: SuluSea

I'll be the first to say I don't work in the editor very much but looking at the models in scenario 1 stock I'm confused as I look at the build rate for the P-38s.

Isn't it because it's a replacement not a build rate? So it's accumulative through the different models. I learned this from several players very familiar with the Allied side when I was trying to put together my sheet of total Allied aircraft throughout the war. It's mentioned in this post.

fb.asp?m=3359465

So John, you may want to check because you may have just added a bunch of P-38s to the Allied OOB! [;)]

[JocMeister]

Its the other way around. Production rate carries over to whatever model its upgrading to. Replacement rate doesn´t.

[ny59giants]

??

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I missed out of the HR comment. What do you mean regarding loosening HR?

I can say from my standpoint that the home rule on strategic bombing dramatically changes the game in not so subtle ways. For example, you do not have to defend any strategic targets, and thus you can amass your fighter airframes strictly for the offense at this point. That ability to concentrate and the low airframe pools makes a IJFB wet dream, but not a very good game for the Allies. CR agreed to this HR, but I am not sure he was totally astute to the intended/unintended consequences of this HR.

[John 3rd]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

2. Allied Fighter Pools seem to me to be realistic given the situation. For the Allies to go on the OFFENSIVE into the heart of the Empire in mid-1942 is a huge mistake (my opinion). They simply don't have the well-rounded resources to fight toe-to-toe. Given that I didn't respond rashly to the situation and took my time to build-up, set the table, and THEN push back in a systematic manner I think really aided the situation. The Allies have HUGE resources (even as early as 1942) but they don't have DEPTH within them. There is grave risk in making a strong offensive push this early in the game. My thoughts are that the pools are decent if the Allied Player is careful with the fights he wages. Dan is a great veteran of this game and KNOWS the dangers of what he was attempting to do.

Yes, that basically sums it up I think. Its was too early. Had CR pulled that move in mid 43 it would have been an entirely different story. The allies simply cannot sustain that heavy fighting in 42. As an allied player I strongly believe 42 is a time for small needle pins here and there and building up where the Japanese are not.

Allied fighter pools are extremely fragile. Even in 44. This has to govern every move an allied player do. "Can I sustain this and is it worth the cost"

If I remember correctly CR was struggling with fighter pools even before he pulled off his invasion. He was warned numerous times in his AAR. I think reality catching up with him was a hard blow (as it would be to anyone). I almost quit my game two times but my opponent persuaded me to continue. I´m glad he did because it has been a great learning experience.

Hopefully after getting some time away from the game CR will realize that while this is a huge setback he can still recover. By late 43 and early 44 he will be as strong as ever. It would really be a shame to see this game go end like this.

Besides, you did do everything right and CR paid the price for it. So well done! [:)]

Thank You Sir.

[John 3rd]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: SuluSea

I'll be the first to say I don't work in the editor very much but looking at the models in scenario 1 stock I'm confused as I look at the build rate for the P-38s.

Isn't it because it's a replacement not a build rate? So it's accumulative through the different models. I learned this from several players very familiar with the Allied side when I was trying to put together my sheet of total Allied aircraft throughout the war. It's mentioned in this post.

fb.asp?m=3359465

So John, you may want to check because you may have just added a bunch of P-38s to the Allied OOB! [;)]

CRAP! Bet you are right.

Air Production is not my thing. This was/is FatR's balliwick.

Michael: Phone Call coming and have the Editor up for the Mod. We need to fix anything I just did last night. Am sending the current files...

[John 3rd]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I missed out of the HR comment. What do you mean regarding loosening HR?

I can say from my standpoint that the home rule on strategic bombing dramatically changes the game in not so subtle ways. For example, you do not have to defend any strategic targets, and thus you can amass your fighter airframes strictly for the offense at this point. That ability to concentrate and the low airframe pools makes a IJFB wet dream, but not a very good game for the Allies. CR agreed to this HR, but I am not sure he was totally astute to the intended/unintended consequences of this HR.

Dan WANTED that HR so I wouldn't bomb China's Industry. I wanted it but not so late. I think the Allied capability for Strategic Bombing really become reality until somewhere in 1943. Thus, the goal was to have HR in this timeframe (1943).