When?

[composer99]

mjk428:

Kindly explain what makes CrusssDaddy's point "accurate and valid".

Kindly refrain from resorting to handwaving (e.g. "it's self-evident", "it's obvious" etc.) while doing so.

CrusssDaddy's contribution to this thread over the years has generally been similar drive-by trolling (term chosen quite specifically: he has deliberately made an effort to draw out inflamed reactions). Thus warspite's simple rejoinder is appropriate.

There is little reason to believe that now, all of a sudden, after years of tedious posts along the same vein, that CrusssDaddy will make "an accurate and valid point" when it reads as just yet another of his pointless potshots.

[Le Grand Condé]

Wow!

Looks like you are a philisopher Numydar (and not a busy one based on the average length of your post [>:]).

We have this saying in French: "enculer les mouches" - I am considering posting a link to this topic in the dictionary to illustrate what it means [:D]

[mjk428]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Nope - not even close (as you well know).....

I know full well that calling a fellow forum member a moron is a personal attack and a clear violation of forum rules.

[Centuur]

ORIGINAL: mjk428

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

Despite being announced by Matrix as a project supported with professional resources, it's been clear for the better part of a decade that development was in fact a hobbyist effort. Is it really surprising, at this late date, that the marketing/sales/distribution are likewise amateur hour?

warspite1

Oh goody....I wondered when this moron would make his ridiculous presence felt...[8|]

He makes an accurate and valid point and all you do is make a personal attack.

Now, I'm similarly inclined to make personal attacks against anything the troll who calls himself CrushDaddy writes in this forum. However, I'm restraining myself to do so, to avoid these kind of discussions. I regret, mjk428, that you are pulled into his very questionable behaviour.
The point is not whether or not Mr. CrushDaddy is right or wrong. The point is that he almost always gives his views in such a way, that I (and a lot of people here) can't find anything positive in his writings.
Personally, I get the impression that he only comes in this forum, to write things damaging to the program. Sometimes, I even think he is working for a competitor company of Matrix, to foul up things here.

Of course is there the fact that he might say what he thinks need to be said. Of course, in this case, it appears he has a point, take from the point of view of people out here.

Fact is, that MWIF is going to be put unto the market, on the conditions MWIF has written. That's it. We can discuss it and disagree (or agree) with those decisions. But to call people "amateuristic" is way, way out of line. Hobbyist, maybe, but amateurs? That's to me not the way you should speak about people who make a living out of putting games on the market.

Perhaps they are wrong by doing it this way. Perhaps not, that's for the future to decide...

[mjk428]

ORIGINAL: composer99

mjk428:

Kindly explain what makes CrusssDaddy's point "accurate and valid".

Kindly refrain from resorting to handwaving (e.g. "it's self-evident", "it's obvious" etc.) while doing so.

CrusssDaddy's contribution to this thread over the years has generally been similar drive-by trolling (term chosen quite specifically: he has deliberately made an effort to draw out inflamed reactions). Thus warspite's simple rejoinder is appropriate.

There is little reason to believe that now, all of a sudden, after years of tedious posts along the same vein, that CrusssDaddy will make "an accurate and valid point" when it reads as just yet another of his pointless potshots.

CrossDaddy's prior history is irrelevant. He's a current forum member in good standing.

Warspite's post was the polar opposite of appropriate.

Matrix knows first-hand what an "amateur hour" this project has been. No point in trying to shield them from what is "self-evident" and "obvious".

There's little reason to believe that now, all of a sudden, after years of misinformation, broken promises and missed deadlines, that any promises of future additions to this project will ever see the light of day in promised form. But you believe what you want and others will believe what they want. However, personal insults should not be tolerated.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: mjk428

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Nope - not even close (as you well know).....

I know full well that calling a fellow forum member a moron is a personal attack and a clear violation of forum rules.

warspite1

Do you? Congratulations. Perhaps therefore you will care to tell me why the following ritual has been played out for some years now:

- That moron attacks Steve, the beta testers and anyone else he cares to pick upon
- Nothing is said
- I respond in kind
- Suddenly the world and his wife states that I have stepped over a line or some old cobblers.

You have been around this forum a long time. You know what he is all about. How about you having a go at the pathetic troll every now and again and telling him that he is in breach of forum rules?

[Centuur]

@ mjk428

Of course you can have this opinion, but I didn't see you posting every time to express you views the way Mr. CrussDaddy always does. I think this is because you don't like to trash people around verbally (which is something I dislike too). Now, personally, I would have liked it a lot if my right honourable friend Mr. Warspite refrained on reacting to Mr. Crushdaddy, however I can understand he did it.

It is very frustrating to have someone who always reacts negative. Nothing which happens with MWIF is good. It's always bad. And that history is always going to be part of his name in this forum. I don't think he is in "good standing" at all, I'm afraid...

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: mjk428

ORIGINAL: composer99

mjk428:

Kindly explain what makes CrusssDaddy's point "accurate and valid".

Kindly refrain from resorting to handwaving (e.g. "it's self-evident", "it's obvious" etc.) while doing so.

CrusssDaddy's contribution to this thread over the years has generally been similar drive-by trolling (term chosen quite specifically: he has deliberately made an effort to draw out inflamed reactions). Thus warspite's simple rejoinder is appropriate.

There is little reason to believe that now, all of a sudden, after years of tedious posts along the same vein, that CrusssDaddy will make "an accurate and valid point" when it reads as just yet another of his pointless potshots.

CrossDaddy's prior history is irrelevant. He's a current forum member in good standing.

Warspite's post was the polar opposite of appropriate.

Matrix knows first-hand what an "amateur hour" this project has been. No point in trying to shield them from what is "self-evident" and "obvious".

There's little reason to believe that now, all of a sudden, after years of misinformation, broken promises and missed deadlines, that any promises of future additions to this project will ever see the light of day in promised form. But you believe what you want and others will believe what they want. However, personal insults should not be tolerated.

warspite1

Ah I see - enough said

CrossDaddy's prior history is irrelevant. He's a current forum member in good standing.

I think that comments tells us all we need to know

[mjk428]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Do you? Congratulations. Perhaps therefore you will care to tell me why the following ritual has been played out for some years now:

- That moron attacks Steve, the beta testers and anyone else he cares to pick upon
- Nothing is said
- I respond in kind
- Suddenly the world and his wife states that I have stepped over a line or some old cobblers.

You have been around this forum a long time. You know what he is all about. How about you having a go at the pathetic troll every now and again and telling him that he is in breach of forum rules?

Honestly I have no idea who Crussdaddy is. He's never been on my radar. I'd say that ritual has played out because being critical of Matrix & Co. is not an explicit breach of forum rules while personal attacks against fellow forum members is a violation.

Having a go at pathetic trolls is a frustrating exercise in futility. If I do see him breaking the rules I'll gladly call him out. Although I'm sure there will be many people ahead of me in line.

[mjk428]

ORIGINAL: Centuur

@ mjk428

Of course you can have this opinion, but I didn't see you posting every time to express you views the way Mr. CrussDaddy always does. I think this is because you don't like to trash people around verbally (which is something I dislike too). Now, personally, I would have liked it a lot if my right honourable friend Mr. Warspite refrained on reacting to Mr. Crushdaddy, however I can understand he did it.

It is very frustrating to have someone who always reacts negative. Nothing which happens with MWIF is good. It's always bad. And that history is always going to be part of his name in this forum. I don't think he is in "good standing" at all, I'm afraid...

If he's able to post in the forum he's in good standing. Doesn't mean he's popular.

I understand your frustration but so far at least nothing good HAS happened with MWIF. Hope that changes in the near future.

[Centuur]

ORIGINAL: mjk428

ORIGINAL: Centuur

@ mjk428

Of course you can have this opinion, but I didn't see you posting every time to express you views the way Mr. CrussDaddy always does. I think this is because you don't like to trash people around verbally (which is something I dislike too). Now, personally, I would have liked it a lot if my right honourable friend Mr. Warspite refrained on reacting to Mr. Crushdaddy, however I can understand he did it.

It is very frustrating to have someone who always reacts negative. Nothing which happens with MWIF is good. It's always bad. And that history is always going to be part of his name in this forum. I don't think he is in "good standing" at all, I'm afraid...

If he's able to post in the forum he's in good standing. Doesn't mean he's popular.

I understand your frustration but so far at least nothing good HAS happened with MWIF. Hope that changes in the near future.

Isn't it a good thing that the product is going unto the market now? I think it is. The way it is going unto the market, I have some questions about that too. I would have liked the AI to be in it too, but it simply isn't at this moment.
Now, we can all say: let's wait for it to be included in the game, but there are a lot of WiF players there, who will buy this game without an AI, simply to be able to see if they can play without having to block a whole room for a couple of years (with the dreaded cat, kid and of course the wife as hazardous people around). I've got a couple of friends I used to play WiF with some years ago, who are all waiting for this, since they simply cannot spare the room any more. Computers are that much better to play these kind of monster games by.

[composer99]

ORIGINAL: mjk428

CrusssDaddy's [sic] prior history is irrelevant. He's a current forum member in good standing.

You are entirely incorrect, with respect to his prior history of participation on this thread.

No one is obliged, every single time CrusssDaddy leaves some turd of a post whinging about or insulting others, to treat it as a brand new event, leaving out of consideration all the other times he has done the exact same thing.

Rather, his posts are best viewed in light of the context of the posts surrounding them, and in light of his total contribution to the thread.

That you suggest otherwise (by asserting his prior posting history is "irrelevant") is, suffice to say, a questionable line of argument.

Also, what do you mean by "in good standing" (other than "hasn't done anything/enough to merit being banned by Matrix forum administration"), and who are you to decide what it is (apart from the minimal definition I have outlined)?

Warspite's post was the polar opposite of appropriate.

Matrix knows first-hand what an "amateur hour" this project has been. No point in trying to shield them from what is "self-evident" and "obvious".

There's little reason to believe that now, all of a sudden, after years of misinformation, broken promises and missed deadlines, that any promises of future additions to this project will ever see the light of day in promised form. But you believe what you want and others will believe what they want. However, personal insults should not be tolerated.

[>:]

In light of years' worth of thorough posts by Steve discussing the work in progress, "years of misinformation, broken promises and missed deadlines" is wildly inaccurate, so much so that I can scarcely conceive it being anything other than deliberately so; as there's none so blind as those who will not see, I suppose such nonsense can be chalked up to (unflattering) ignorance on your part.

Until the last few days, to my knowledge no formal or official release date for MWiF was ever provided by Matrix or Steve. Early on, Steve issued what turned out to be overly optimistic forecasts for completion, but these are not promises. What is more, unless you are privy to inside information with respect to Steve's dealings with Matrix, who are you to say deadlines have been missed, or even what the deadlines are/were?

[Greyshaft]

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

So why should we support a pricing model that is counter to every game that Matrix will release just because of issues with development, etc. that the customers had nothing to do with.

My point is that you don't have to support it.
You can choose not to buy the game.

[Numdydar]

And I am chosing not to buy it (unless it is a lot less than what I expect it to be). [:(] Even though I REALLY wanted to before now. I am chosing not to support what I consider really bad behivor on Matrix's part. When (and if) and AI version is released, I will definately buy it at whatever cost is involved. As I will then know that Matrix kept its promise to build an AI for the game.

Again I do not care at all if an AI is available at release or not. I just want Matrix to have an incentive to fully develop an AI in a TIMELY manner. Paying them money at release may give them some incentive to develop an AI. it would be a lot better from a customer point of view if we payed upfront for the full product so Matrix would be liabile if the AI was NOT developed. Now there is incentive [:)]. Of course I can totally see why they would not want to do that as well. I just think it is a terrible way to treat their customers.

If they sell 500 copies of the game without an AI, how long do you think it will take them to create an AI? Given the proven track record of the dev time so far without an AI are you really ready to trust Matrix to deliver an AI anytime soon? For a game this complex? I am not.

I REALLY hope I wrong about all of this. But given events so far, I am not holding my breath.

[CrusssDaddy]

ORIGINAL: composer99

ORIGINAL: mjk428

CrusssDaddy's [sic] prior history is irrelevant. He's a current forum member in good standing.

You are entirely incorrect, with respect to his prior history of participation on this thread.

No one is obliged, every single time CrusssDaddy leaves some turd of a post whinging about or insulting others, to treat it as a brand new event, leaving out of consideration all the other times he has done the exact same thing.

Rather, his posts are best viewed in light of the context of the posts surrounding them, and in light of his total contribution to the thread.

That you suggest otherwise (by asserting his prior posting history is "irrelevant") is, suffice to say, a questionable line of argument.

Also, what do you mean by "in good standing" (other than "hasn't done anything/enough to merit being banned by Matrix forum administration"), and who are you to decide what it is (apart from the minimal definition I have outlined)?

Warspite's post was the polar opposite of appropriate.

Matrix knows first-hand what an "amateur hour" this project has been. No point in trying to shield them from what is "self-evident" and "obvious".

There's little reason to believe that now, all of a sudden, after years of misinformation, broken promises and missed deadlines, that any promises of future additions to this project will ever see the light of day in promised form. But you believe what you want and others will believe what they want. However, personal insults should not be tolerated.

[>:]

In light of years' worth of thorough posts by Steve discussing the work in progress, "years of misinformation, broken promises and missed deadlines" is wildly inaccurate, so much so that I can scarcely conceive it being anything other than deliberately so; as there's none so blind as those who will not see, I suppose such nonsense can be chalked up to (unflattering) ignorance on your part.

Until the last few days, to my knowledge no formal or official release date for MWiF was ever provided by Matrix or Steve. Early on, Steve issued what turned out to be overly optimistic forecasts for completion, but these are not promises. What is more, unless you are privy to inside information with respect to Steve's dealings with Matrix, who are you to say deadlines have been missed, or even what the deadlines are/were?

You should go reread the "Matrix Seals the Deal..." announcement from 10 (ten) years (a decade) ago. Review that list of bulleted game features -- what percentage, after 10 years of work, made it to the game? Is it really so egregious, reviewing that list and noting truthfully the percentage accomplished in all this time, to characterize the effort as amateur hour or to remark upon stated promises (maybe better termed "hopes?"), information and deadlines that turned out to fall well short of reality?

[SPOILER ALERT -- The answer is "20%" after ten years, twenty-percent.]

[Tonqeen]

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

ORIGINAL: composer99

ORIGINAL: mjk428

CrusssDaddy's [sic] prior history is irrelevant. He's a current forum member in good standing.

You are entirely incorrect, with respect to his prior history of participation on this thread.

No one is obliged, every single time CrusssDaddy leaves some turd of a post whinging about or insulting others, to treat it as a brand new event, leaving out of consideration all the other times he has done the exact same thing.

Rather, his posts are best viewed in light of the context of the posts surrounding them, and in light of his total contribution to the thread.

That you suggest otherwise (by asserting his prior posting history is "irrelevant") is, suffice to say, a questionable line of argument.

Also, what do you mean by "in good standing" (other than "hasn't done anything/enough to merit being banned by Matrix forum administration"), and who are you to decide what it is (apart from the minimal definition I have outlined)?

Warspite's post was the polar opposite of appropriate.

Matrix knows first-hand what an "amateur hour" this project has been. No point in trying to shield them from what is "self-evident" and "obvious".

There's little reason to believe that now, all of a sudden, after years of misinformation, broken promises and missed deadlines, that any promises of future additions to this project will ever see the light of day in promised form. But you believe what you want and others will believe what they want. However, personal insults should not be tolerated.

[>:]

In light of years' worth of thorough posts by Steve discussing the work in progress, "years of misinformation, broken promises and missed deadlines" is wildly inaccurate, so much so that I can scarcely conceive it being anything other than deliberately so; as there's none so blind as those who will not see, I suppose such nonsense can be chalked up to (unflattering) ignorance on your part.

Until the last few days, to my knowledge no formal or official release date for MWiF was ever provided by Matrix or Steve. Early on, Steve issued what turned out to be overly optimistic forecasts for completion, but these are not promises. What is more, unless you are privy to inside information with respect to Steve's dealings with Matrix, who are you to say deadlines have been missed, or even what the deadlines are/were?

You should go reread the "Matrix Seals the Deal..." announcement from 10 (ten) years (a decade) ago. Review that list of bulleted game features -- what percentage, after 10 years of work, made it to the game? Is it really so egregious, reviewing that list and noting truthfully the percentage accomplished in all this time, to characterize the effort as amateur hour or to remark upon stated promises (maybe better termed "hopes?"), information and deadlines that turned out to fall well short of reality?

[SPOILER ALERT -- The answer is "20%" after ten years, twenty-percent.]

If I'd disliked a game to the piont that you do, I would´nt go to that forum no more. The energy that you hate it must be at level psykopatic

[CrusssDaddy]

ORIGINAL: Tonqeen

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

ORIGINAL: composer99



You are entirely incorrect, with respect to his prior history of participation on this thread.

No one is obliged, every single time CrusssDaddy leaves some turd of a post whinging about or insulting others, to treat it as a brand new event, leaving out of consideration all the other times he has done the exact same thing.

Rather, his posts are best viewed in light of the context of the posts surrounding them, and in light of his total contribution to the thread.

That you suggest otherwise (by asserting his prior posting history is "irrelevant") is, suffice to say, a questionable line of argument.

Also, what do you mean by "in good standing" (other than "hasn't done anything/enough to merit being banned by Matrix forum administration"), and who are you to decide what it is (apart from the minimal definition I have outlined)?



[>:]

In light of years' worth of thorough posts by Steve discussing the work in progress, "years of misinformation, broken promises and missed deadlines" is wildly inaccurate, so much so that I can scarcely conceive it being anything other than deliberately so; as there's none so blind as those who will not see, I suppose such nonsense can be chalked up to (unflattering) ignorance on your part.

Until the last few days, to my knowledge no formal or official release date for MWiF was ever provided by Matrix or Steve. Early on, Steve issued what turned out to be overly optimistic forecasts for completion, but these are not promises. What is more, unless you are privy to inside information with respect to Steve's dealings with Matrix, who are you to say deadlines have been missed, or even what the deadlines are/were?

You should go reread the "Matrix Seals the Deal..." announcement from 10 (ten) years (a decade) ago. Review that list of bulleted game features -- what percentage, after 10 years of work, made it to the game? Is it really so egregious, reviewing that list and noting truthfully the percentage accomplished in all this time, to characterize the effort as amateur hour or to remark upon stated promises (maybe better termed "hopes?"), information and deadlines that turned out to fall well short of reality?

[SPOILER ALERT -- The answer is "20%" after ten years, twenty-percent.]

If I'd disliked a game to the piont that you do, I would´nt go to that forum no more. The energy that you hate it must be at level psykopatic

"Psykopatic" is a great name for a band!

[paulderynck]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

What I want to do, and this was suggested to me by several people in the forum, is to enable PBEM games to switch over to NetPlay games from time to time (at the players' choice). So when one side is moving all their land units, or during production, the exchange of decisions is via email. When things get hot and heavy (e.g., naval movement, air-to-air combat), the players go to NetPlay mode.

I haven't thought out the technical details of this yet, but it seems feasible at first glance. I think it might be "a good thing to do".

That is absolutely the best thing to do.

[paulderynck]

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

And I am chosing not to buy it (unless it is a lot less than what I expect it to be). [:(] Even though I REALLY wanted to before now. I am chosing not to support what I consider really bad behivor on Matrix's part. When (and if) and AI version is released, I will definately buy it at whatever cost is involved. As I will then know that Matrix kept its promise to build an AI for the game.

Awwww, you really, really, REALLY wanted to? Poor you.

Do not buy it. That is best. Your whining and complaining will change nothing. Your buying or not buying will change nothing. Matrix ought to publish the buyers' pseudonyms in November. Then we can be shocked to see:
...Numdydar, ...Crussdaddy... etc.

[CrusssDaddy]

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

And I am chosing not to buy it (unless it is a lot less than what I expect it to be). [:(] Even though I REALLY wanted to before now. I am chosing not to support what I consider really bad behivor on Matrix's part. When (and if) and AI version is released, I will definately buy it at whatever cost is involved. As I will then know that Matrix kept its promise to build an AI for the game.

Awwww, you really, really, REALLY wanted to? Poor you.

Do not buy it. That is best. Your whining and complaining will change nothing. Your buying or not buying will change nothing. Matrix ought to publish the buyers' pseudonyms in November. Then we can be shocked to see:
...Numdydar, ...Crussdaddy... etc.

paulderynck

What a curious and destructive response. I can understand harsh words directed my way, but what is the source of such venom inflicted on someone who has been and desires fervently to remain a supporter of MWiF? This is baffling. Why does reasoned and polite opinion wound you so personally?