The Burma Road

[Miller]

Can someone please give me a definitive answer on what bases the Allies need to control to get it open? I have searched the forums and have found half a dozen different answers! Thanks.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Miller

Can someone please give me a definitive answer on what bases the Allies need to control to get it open? I have searched the forums and have found half a dozen different answers! Thanks.

Definitive? Are you nuts?! [:)]

I thought it was settled that the manual is wrong. Ledo is not an endpoint.

Note #41 in the January 2012 patch reports a changed gameplay element: "41. Added message on base screen if Burma Road is open (on Rangoon and Tsuyung)"

[witpqs]

And it's not technically about controlling bases, except for the endpoints. the game must be able to trace a supply path from Rangoon to Tsuyung (which I take to mean that it starts fresh at each base). In practice I think that means that you must have certain bases, like Lashio and Paoshan, just because there is no way to trace a supply path without those bases (it would be too long). AFAIK.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

And it's not technically about controlling bases, except for the endpoints. the game must be able to trace a supply path from Rangoon to Tsuyung (which I take to mean that it starts fresh at each base). In practice I think that means that you must have certain bases, like Lashio and Paoshan, just because there is no way to trace a supply path without those bases (it would be too long). AFAIK.

Wait. Not sure what you're saying.

My understanding is as follows:

If Rangoon falls it's closed even if the rest is Allied controlled. If any base on the way from Rangoon to Tsyuyung falls, it is closed and the magic supply (plus other supply) does not flow.

[Numdydar]

Correct. If Rangoon is NOT Allied controlled, then no Burma Road at all. Anything that interupts the supply path between the two end points will also close the road. So if Lashio is captured somehow by Japan and all the rest of the bases are Allied controlled, including Rangoon, then the road will also be closed. Not sure why this is consider not definate [:)]

[Feltan]

Is there a time frame? What I mean is this: does the Burma road operate and provide supply in '41 and early '42 as well as later in the war when the Brits recapture Rangoon and the other mentioned bases? I've often wondered if there is an incentive to fight for Rangoon at the outset, and 500 supply points/day may be a thing to consider.

Regards,
Feltan

[dr.hal]

After Rangoon there are a number of "paths" that can be traced into China and ending at Tsuyung. As is indicted, some cities or hexes you MUST control, while others have work arounds (after leaving Rangoon). So there is no definitive list, just a list of must haves and alternatives. But the game now does tell you when the road is open or closed.

[HansBolter]

To expand this a bit can anyone confirm what Castor Troy once told me that the 500 is a free bonus over and above what the player causes to be pulled down the road by getting supply into Rangoon and setting Tsuyung to pull it?

If that's the case you would get the 500 free supply even if there is zero supply actually in Rangoon or any of the other bases along the road, as long as the road is open that is.

[Numdydar]

ORIGINAL: Feltan

Is there a time frame? What I mean is this: does the Burma road operate and provide supply in '41 and early '42 as well as later in the war when the Brits recapture Rangoon and the other mentioned bases? I've often wondered if there is an incentive to fight for Rangoon at the outset, and 500 supply points/day may be a thing to consider.

Regards,
Feltan

As long as the conditions are met for the Road to be open, it works. There is no timeframe involved. If you have a path from Rangoon then it works. Even on the very first turn of the game for the Allies (Dec 8, 1941). If you do not have a path, it does not work. Basicly it is either On or Off. So when the Allies recapture Rangoon and the entire path is reoppened, then the Road will function again. It really is pretty simple.

[Numdydar]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

To expand this a bit can anyone confirm what Castor Troy once told me that the 500 is a free bonus over and above what the player causes to be pulled down the road by getting supply into Rangoon and setting Tsuyung to pull it?

If that's the case you would get the 500 free supply even if there is zero supply actually in Rangoon or any of the other bases along the road, as long as the road is open that is.

As far as I know, it is free supplies. So it does not actually pull the supplies from anywhere. But as I have not played as the Allies yet, my answer should be taken with a grain of salt (or maybe a whole Tablespoon lol).

[rook749]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: Miller

Can someone please give me a definitive answer on what bases the Allies need to control to get it open? I have searched the forums and have found half a dozen different answers! Thanks.

Definitive? Are you nuts?! [:)]

I thought it was settled that the manual is wrong. Ledo is not an endpoint.

Note #41 in the January 2012 patch reports a changed gameplay element: "41. Added message on base screen if Burma Road is open (on Rangoon and Tsuyung)"

Did not know this was know this but it is good to know. Learn something new every time I look on the forums.

-Rook

[Treetop64]

It is my understanding that any bases between Rangoon and Tsuyung that are insufficiently garrisoned and have suffered partisan damage as a result will also break the supply link, even if no Japanese military forces are present and they are all "allied controlled". Is that correct?

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

And it's not technically about controlling bases, except for the endpoints. the game must be able to trace a supply path from Rangoon to Tsuyung (which I take to mean that it starts fresh at each base). In practice I think that means that you must have certain bases, like Lashio and Paoshan, just because there is no way to trace a supply path without those bases (it would be too long). AFAIK.

In that case you need a hybrid of what the manual says and change #41 says. The manual does say the path has to open and free of enemy units, etc. But the manual also gives two routes: from Rangoon and from Ledo.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

Correct. If Rangoon is NOT Allied controlled, then no Burma Road at all. Anything that interupts the supply path between the two end points will also close the road. So if Lashio is captured somehow by Japan and all the rest of the bases are Allied controlled, including Rangoon, then the road will also be closed. Not sure why this is consider not definate [:)]

Because the manual says the route can also be from Ledo to Tsuyung.

[Numdydar]

Ok. This is really not that complicated. Here is the exact Manual section.

15.8 BURMA ROAD
For the Allies, if a rail/road/trail path free of Japanese units between Tsuyung and Ledo or
between Tsuyung and Rangoon can be traced, than each day, 500 supply points per turn are
added to Tsuyung.

Notice there is NO rail/road/trail path from Ledo to anywhere in China. So Ledo does NOT provide any supply to China at any time in stock. Also notice that the supply is 'free'. It is just automaticly added to Chinese supply at Tsuyung. It is NOT traced like normal supply/resources.

Also notice that Japanese units have to be present (or own a blocking base) to prevent this. So no partisians can block the supply.

The reason Ledo is listed at all in the manual is so mods to the map can add a road in at the proper time. So unless you are using a map mod for the game, Ledo will never open the Burma Road.

This whole issue was discussed back in 2011 at this thread which took me exactly 5 secs to find. tm.asp?m=2766758&mpage=1&key=&#2766758

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

Ok. This is really not that complicated. Here is the exact Manual section.

15.8 BURMA ROAD
For the Allies, if a rail/road/trail path free of Japanese units between Tsuyung and Ledo or
between Tsuyung and Rangoon can be traced, than each day, 500 supply points per turn are
added to Tsuyung.

Notice there is NO rail/road/trail path from Ledo to anywhere in China. So Ledo does NOT provide any supply to China at any time in stock. Also notice that the supply is 'free'. It is just automaticly added to Chinese supply at Tsuyung. It is NOT traced like normal supply/resources.

Also notice that Japanese units have to be present (or own a blocking base) to prevent this. So no partisians can block the supply.

The reason Ledo is listed at all in the manual is so mods to the map can add a road in at the proper time. So unless you are using a map mod for the game, Ledo will never open the Burma Road.

This whole issue was discussed back in 2011 at this thread which took me exactly 5 secs to find. tm.asp?m=2766758&mpage=1&key=?

Don't get huffy. [:)]

That thread is worthless. It's a bunch of players standing around shooting the breeze. How you get from it that the devs intended the manual to refer to theoretical mods not yet, and maybe never, written I have no idea.

The REASON this is confusing to so many is that the manual is WRONG. It says what it says in plain English and the game doesn't do that. The rest is hand-waving.

Michael put in change #41 in January 2012 so it will be abundantly clear to players when the road is open, and when it is not.

The End.

[Numdydar]

Yes but there is a map mod that is available that does change the map at the historical dates. Like for the Burma Railroad and the Ledo Road. So in that case Ledo would work in the game. It has been a while since I looked at that mod, but iirc if both Ledo and Burma roads were open, you could get 1,000 supplies/turn into China (500 each).

[Alfred]

OK, time for the definitive answer.[:)]

The "confusion" over the Burma Road is caused by:

(a) the manual being wrong in mentioning Ledo. There is only one path; Rangoon - Tsuyung. This is one of the very few instances where the manual is factually wrong.

(b) there was a bug which allowed the path to go cross country off road/rail. The bug has since been fixed so that only road/rail hexes between the two endpoints are taken into account.

(c) there is no message displayed to inform the Allied player that the Burma Road is closed. Michaelm subsequently introduced a message to inform the Allied player when the Burma Road is open.

There were also a few other small bugs which affected the presentation to the player of how it operated but those small bugs have been fixed.


The conditions for the Burma Road to be open and the benefits which then ensue are:

1. The Allied player must hold both Rangoon and Tsuyung.

2. A valid supply path along road/rail hexes only must be traceable between the two endpoints ie Rangoon and Tsuyung.

3. The path is cut when a hexside is enemy controlled. That requires the sole occupation by Japan of a relevant road/rail hex which automatically assigns all six hexsides to the enemy, or an enemy LCU entering an Allied occupied hex and the hexside through which the enemy unit entered thereby became enemy controlled.

4. In the official scenarios there are only 3 Burmese bases which have an Allied garrison requirement. Of these three, only Rangoon is on the Burma Road. Wherever a garrison requirement is not met, a supply path through that hex cannot be traced.

5. Each day the Burma Road is open there is an automatic delivery to Tsuyung of 500 supply points.

6. There is no start/cut off date for the Burma Road. On 7 December 1941 the conditions are met for the Burma Road to be open and therefore it is open with delivery of 500 supply points to Tsuyung. If subsequently closed, the delivery is stopped. If reopened again the delivery resumes.

There are several threads where devs explain how the Burma Road operates. Post #2 from this thread:

tm.asp?m=2896243&mpage=1&key=Burma%2CRoad�

is a succinct summary from a dev. BTW finding definitive threads on a topic usually takes me more than 5 seconds and is one of the reasons why I rail against people who open in the Tech sub-forum non bug threads.

Alfred

Edit: fixed a couple of typos

[witpqs]

There are several threads where devs explain how the Burma Road operates. Post #2 from this thread:

tm.asp?m=2896243&mpage=1&key=Burma%2CRoad�

I suspect that is not the link you wanted to post.

[Alfred]

No, that is the one.[:)]

Post #2 is from Kereguelen, a dev (for newbies who might not know). There were other threads from Andrew Brown but they were much older and dealt more with why Ledo was not coded to be an endpoint. Some other good threads involved michaelm but his posts were not as succinct ie one had to read several posts of his to get the full picture as he was responding to particular alleged "bugs". I don't have the search list now before me but IIRC, Andy Mac also chimed in.

Whilst Kereguelen's post was given in a slightly different context and probably why you thought I had given the wrong link, what he said succinctly applies 100% to this thread's OP. All the devs identified in the preceding paragraph covered the same points made by Kereguelen's succinct post, It is just a good example why searching the forum usually takes me more than 5 seconds.[:)]

Alfred