Wild Bill ordered me here!

DEF_BUNGIS · Post by **DEF_BUNGIS** » Sun Apr 09, 2000 2:47 am

Q1: I have seen an add for SP4 $49.00. Is this the same thing as SPWAW? Is Matrix games developing this game too? I cant find anything about it.

Q2: If SPW@W is going to be free, how will it be distributed? Download only? By mail?

Q3: Is there any plan to combine SP3 and SPW@W onto one CD for a sale price?

Q4: Why is SP W@W free?

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Better to make the wrong decision than be the sorry son of a bitch to scared to make one at all.

Paul Vebber · Post by **Paul Vebber** » Sun Apr 09, 2000 4:22 am

And welcome you are:-)

A1. SP4 is an SSI game that may or may not ever come out. SP:WaW is not SP4 and Matrix is not involved with SP4. It was to be an overhaul of SP to a hexless, more intereactive (but not RTS - something more akin to TacOps - but different

sort of game.

A2: We are working on some distribution options, but right now a free download is the primary.

A3: There is no plan on combining the two onto one CD

A4: TGN got involved in doing "facelifts" to SP games and SSI decided that if a group of reasonably talanted folks wanted to do that for them, they would share the source code so we could do it right. The hitch was the "upgrade" had to be made freely available (by download) to those who had already bought SP2 and SP3. This philosophy has carried over with SP:WaW. That is why they are free.

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Sun Apr 09, 2000 5:10 am

Hi there, Def Bungis!

Glad you dropped by. You've done me a service, now I am in your debt to do you a service (G).

Paul has answered quite adequately your questions, but I wish to add something.

The game "is free, but it ain't cheap" It represents literally thousands of man hours of an 18 man team working on every area of the game, from coding to graphics, sound, improved AI, new features, new terrain, new interfaces, new controls.

You can control the speed of the game, the objectives of each formation, the path each formation will take, and so many other new ideas and features.

All of this requires many, many hours of time. These guys have worked their tails off to have the SP game we have always wanted.
Gliders, transports, reinforcements, accurate armor ratings, improved artillery, soldiers that really look like soldiers (you can see their bayonets, or the mortar crews in undershirts!), tanks that look like miniatures.

And we won't even get into the scenarios and campaigns that are coming. From the Spanish Civil War to the Chinese Civil War, you'll have a banquet of battles coming in a steady flow.

It is not SP4. I don't think there will ever be an SP4, but what you will have here will certainly fill the bill.

It has the SP feel, but its a whole new game.
Thanks for stopping by. You are welcome anytime!

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Wild Bill Wilder
Coordinator, Scenario Design
Matrix Games

DEF_BUNGIS · Post by **DEF_BUNGIS** » Sun Apr 09, 2000 8:03 am

Thanks for the E-MAIL and quick reply WB.
Hope you and o'l B&G get things straight.

It seems like there is an awfull lot of work being done to a game that's going to be FREE.?
What is the bottom line here, is it to generate sales of SP3 again? Or Get everybody geared up for an upcomming game in development? Just seems unusual for developers to develop for FREE, hehe....

Doea Matrix plan on developing any other historical war games in the future?

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Better to make the wrong decision than be the sorry son of a bitch to scared to make one at all.

Paul Vebber · Post by **Paul Vebber** » Sun Apr 09, 2000 8:34 am

If you go to the "Products" page you can see the other things we have in the works. Several with screen shots! New SPWaW screen shots should be up by Monday.

Wotan · Post by **Wotan** » Sun Apr 09, 2000 10:51 am

I'm still very new to this forum, but I've been visiting the SP:WaW site daily since I read about it in CGW. I've played SP1 since it first came out, I was even playing it when I was home on leave 2 months ago! So of course I can't wait to play SP:WaW.

It's good to see people like DEF_BUNGIS posting here now. We war gamers are but a very small minority of the gaming community. We need to stick together. It shouldn't matter what your favorite game is or will be.

A question then: (well, ok, two of them, actually)

1. Will SPWaW still let unused ARTY batteries fire counter-battery fire as in SP2?
2. Will SPWaW allow the player to purchase Fighter units during the set-up phase to keep those pesky fighter-bombers occupied? handled off screen ( similar to counter-battery fire )

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"Driver move out, Gunner take over"

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Sun Apr 09, 2000 7:28 pm

You are quite right, Wotan. We do need to stick together and support one another. There is enough of a rat race out there. We come here for fun, not to fight, except on the electronic battlefield.

I am not sure about the artillery but no, there won't be fighters to counter the enemy's air. That is a great idea. Buy some AA guns just in case (G). They'll work against infantry too.

Mark_Ezra · Post by **Mark_Ezra** » Sun Apr 09, 2000 9:54 pm

Hi Def_Bungis: The question of man hours put into this game may not be clear to those new to Sp. Matrix, The Camo Group, WB & The Raiders, and others ALL are gamers who wish to improve fine old games. They are not Game Companies nor are they associated directly with SSI or anybody else. They have been given premission to use SSI code to customize SP. A bit like throwing a 390 into a '40 Ford, really. I mention this only because I think there is confusion as to what/who Matrix is and what they are actually doing.

Paul Vebber · Post by **Paul Vebber** » Sun Apr 09, 2000 10:37 pm

That is a good point Mark! Matrix Games is run by gamers. Some of our projects, Like Napolean at War, we own the rights to and are complete games that we will sell direct.

Other projects like SP:WaW, SP:The Nam, and a possible "SP:2000" modern (mid seventy's-near future) are done as "add-on's" that will be free downloads for folks that own SP series games.

We are negotiating with Mattel on the other SSI "upgrade" games like WAJ, WIR to determine just how those projects will proceed. More on them as we find out.

So we are not you're normal game company! We hope to make money obviously, but most of us are either retired or have "day jobs" so we plan to take our time, have fun, and produce some quality products!

[This message has been edited by Paul Vebber (edited 04-09-2000).]

DEF_BUNGIS · Post by **DEF_BUNGIS** » Mon Apr 10, 2000 7:30 am

That is great INFO folks.
I think I understand now what SPW@W is all about. With that in mind, I think you will probably see alot more of DEF BUNGIS on the "War in Russia forum". Not that I won't stop bye and take a peak at the SP forum.

But, for me, I am not going to purchase SP3 so I can down load SPW@W for free. BTW, with my connection speed it would take DAYS to do this

. This is why I asked if there was going to be a merging of the two onto one CD and flat out sell it for $20 bucks or so. It seems the target market is for current owners of SP, and there is nothing wrong with that. Just MHO.

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Better to make the wrong decision than be the sorry son of a bitch to scared to make one at all.

Paul Vebber · Post by **Paul Vebber** » Mon Apr 10, 2000 8:54 am

My use of "add-on" is taken very loosely...and more form the point of view Mattel seems to be looking at it form.

To us and in all ways apparant to the gamer, these will be familiar, but in many respects new games. They are not pactches, but entirely new game "expansions" based on several years of collecting our own thoughts and those of the hundreds of gamers who have participated in www.TheGamers.net 's SP forums and lists.

Make no mistake about it, those familiar to the SP series will be able to dig right in and play, finding the interface and info screens similar to the SP series gone before. But without reading themanual and learning whats changed, you will quickly feel like you are on a differnet planet...eerily familiar, but very different!

DEF_BUNGIS · Post by **DEF_BUNGIS** » Mon Apr 10, 2000 9:47 am

Originally posted by Mark_Ezra:
Hi Def_Bungis: The question of man hours put into this game may not be clear to those new to Sp. Matrix, The Camo Group, WB & The Raiders, and others ALL are gamers who wish to improve fine old games. They are not Game Companies nor are they associated directly with SSI or anybody else. They have been given premission to use SSI code to customize SP. A bit like throwing a 390 into a '40 Ford, really. I mention this only because I think there is confusion as to what/who Matrix is and what they are actually doing.

Hmmm.
So Does this mean SSI has abandoned SP series? Wild bill said he doubts SP4 will ever be produced. If this happens, that means MATRIX will have the only interest in keeping SP alive.....? Right?
So, has MATRIX given any thought to programming SP4 or 5?
I mean, don't get me wrong guy's, I think the free SPW@W is more scenario than I ever got free with any other game. But, does it satisfy the needs of us war gamers? Probably yes for the SP3 players......probably a little less for us new comers'.
The real question is, does it satisfy the staff of MATRIX games?

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Better to make the wrong decision than be the sorry son of a bitch to scared to make one at all.

Big.Toe · Post by **Big.Toe** » Tue Apr 11, 2000 2:45 am

SP:2000! I know it was mentioned in passing, but WOW!

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Tue Apr 11, 2000 3:01 am

Nothing is set in concrete, guys. I really can't affirm or deny that SSI will do an SP4.

Until they elect me on their Board of Directors, I'll make educated (debatable) guesses. My guess is "no."

SPWAW is most definitely NOT SP3. We borrowed some of the features of SP3, and SP2...and SP1. And then we added quite a few of our own.

so what we have is really a new game, not a makeover, from the inside out. Oh it definitely has the look and feel of SP. We don't want to lose that. But in looks and play there are some major improvements.

So in that regard I would have to classify it as the closest thing we'll get for awhile to SP4.

Now a 3D game, impulse or some other system of play, etc., etc, might be forthcoming some day on SP level. I know of no one anywhere who is working on that project.

So in the meantime, the game will live on in its pretty new dancing shoes, hopefully for some time to come.

WB

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Wild Bill Wilder
Coordinator, Scenario Design
Matrix Games

Paul Vebber · Post by **Paul Vebber** » Tue Apr 11, 2000 3:18 am

In my sleep deprived dream like stupor :-0 I envision SP:WaW covering the 1930 - 1949 timeframe.

SP:The Nam, though focusing on the Indo-China theater and its peculiarities, from 45-75, will obviously be able to handle other theaters in that time frame, we just will only provide the Nam OOBS and likely a "red" and "blue" set that will have generic formations of Western and Sov-Bloc weapons for those that want to do other battle in the post-WW2 to ~75 time frame.

SP:2000 in my imaginary "perfect world", would complete the trilogy and extend the game from 75 (actually the advent of ATGMS, long rod penetrators and laminate armor that requires a substantially different armor combat system - not to mention all the "gee-wiz" JV2010 and "Army after Next" stuff) to the "near future".

I don't know on a number of levels if we will get there, so don't hold me to it! But you never know!

[This message has been edited by Paul Vebber (edited 04-10-2000).]

Foley · Post by **Foley** » Tue Apr 11, 2000 6:01 pm

Originally posted by Paul Vebber:
SP:The Nam, though focusing on the Indo-China theater and its peculiarities, from 45-75, will obviously be able to handle other theaters in that time frame, we just will only provide the Nam OOBS and likely a "red" and "blue" set that will have generic formations of Western and Sov-Bloc weapons for those that want to do other battle in the post-WW2 to ~75 time frame.

I assume that Middle East battles in this time frame can be built then (Wild Bill any free time to do a few of these

????)

Paul Vebber · Post by **Paul Vebber** » Tue Apr 11, 2000 6:44 pm

LIke I said, we won't have detailed Arab/Isreali OOBs, but the majority of toys will be there and we don't plan on disabling the "desert" terrain button.

We will focus on specific aspects of jungle/riverine warfare, in the Indo-china theater context. But the core engine will still support "regular" battles. We just don't have the time and manpower to devote to doing full OOBs for all the battles from post-WII to 75. The editor will be included for those that want to give it a go!

Paul Vebber · Post by **Paul Vebber** » Tue Apr 11, 2000 7:45 pm

DEF

Right now our interests lie in the areas we have committed to on our products page, and our "Fire and Movement" operational series. We think we can fill an "Avalon Hill" sort of role between monster high detail, high time commitment games and the "war related game", but not real "wargame" offerings.

We want the historical detail there, but look to lower player overhead with "regular boardgame" counter densities. AH Bulge is our thought rather than Watch am Rhein...

We want to focus on internet playable highly interactive systems with players alternating rapidly moving small number of units. And fun elements like "virtual" card play, or chit cups in diplomacy or command control.

Like the old Hill, we look to provide HIGH graphic and sound quality and deep, but not fanatical (Ok well maybe a LITTLE fanatical:-) levels of detail.

We don't think you should have to spend weeks and 10's of hours to play a game through. That's not to say we won't offer long campaigns, and its applicable to some games more than others, but we want good scenarios that folks can play in 3-5 hours in an evening at least well represented in our games.

We have our grognard tendancies, but feel computer gaming seems to be going the "monster" game route, or off in new directions entirely that hold great promise -don't mistake me for a "3D basher" - but just don't have that something that good ol' board games had. If that means we are dinosaurs, maybe...but we ain't going to extinction with a wimper!

Just like the traditional board games and miniatures communities have diverged, we think there is room for "virtual board games" and "virtual miniatures" to each have a decent following. Especially at the oprational and strategic levels of war, where fully 3D battlefield representions have limitations.

That is not to say we are stuck in a "top down" mindset! We just see 3D as an eventual tool for conveying information more clearly, not necessarily to provide a "window into a virtual world" or "virtual sand table" you can fly around in/upon that is a function of object polygon count. NOT saying that is bad, just that its different.

We feel there are many fun and exciting aspects to board gaming that never transitioned to computer gaming for whatever reason, and we hope to do that. Plus implement some innovative ideas of our own!

So bottom line, what does that mean for the future of SP? Probably nothing. Will Matrix at some point do a Tactical level game? Probably. Will it be SP4? Almost certainly not. It would be our own system that would be "steeped in SP tradition", but would borrow alot from the other squad and platoon level games - computer and board based - that are out there.

Will we ever make it? Don't know. Likely the soonest you'd see it is about 3 years hence as that is the time period to "do it right".

Right now we just hope to be around that long

DEF_BUNGIS · Post by **DEF_BUNGIS** » Wed Apr 12, 2000 3:55 am

I sure hope the best for Matrix Games.
Games and ideas like these (good ones) are a dying few.

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Better to make the wrong decision than be the sorry son of a bitch to scared to make one at all.

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Wed Apr 12, 2000 7:59 am

Foley, I think we'll squeeze some AI stuff hopefully, even if we have to fake it. We've done it before. A good reception of SPNam could motivate other modules. We'll have to see.

I think the secret to the potential success of Matrix, DB, is that is being run not by businessmen, but by devoted gamers. So that means we might not make much money but we (and hopefully you) will have a lot of fun.
That is what gaming is all about.

WB

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Wild Bill Wilder
Coordinator, Scenario Design
Matrix Games