And now the waiting begins - Xargun (Japs) vs RRoberson (Allies) - No RRobs

[Xargun]

So am I going nuts or what ? I'm dying for a turn, and Rob has to work late so probably no turn today Is it wrong for me to be almost in pain waiting ? So glad I have this forum to talk to while going through my withdrawal.

BTW, I loaded my last turn and I can right click and stop ship building - awesome I know what I'm doing on my next turn...

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
Pax: No HI savings for the first 6 months, or "no" HI savings?! Even in the game I took over, I'm still saving ~2k per day in 2/42, before pilot costs (currently in low-20k per month). Am I (and Xargun?) chronically under-building, or something?

No real savings. Sure, maybe the first 6 months I save a couple hundred thousand total ... really not much. But starting in Jun 42 I usually am saving >75K/mo ... and of course that will ramp up as the conquests finalize and I really start shutting down NSY and MSY. Again, my minimum goal is for 4M in the bank when I lose the DEI ... minimum. I like more, a lot more if I can. That to me means more Shinden, Karyu, etc in '45. And I never turn off any ARM or VEH production until after I lose the DEI. To me, that is the same as HI in the bank. I know I will need a ton of both after 6/44 .. I don't want to be short.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
Pax: No HI savings for the first 6 months, or "no" HI savings?! Even in the game I took over, I'm still saving ~2k per day in 2/42, before pilot costs (currently in low-20k per month). Am I (and Xargun?) chronically under-building, or something?

No real savings. Sure, maybe the first 6 months I save a couple hundred thousand total ... really not much. But starting in Jun 42 I usually am saving >75K/mo ... and of course that will ramp up as the conquests finalize and I really start shutting down NSY and MSY. Again, my minimum goal is for 4M in the bank when I lose the DEI ... minimum. I like more, a lot more if I can. That to me means more Shinden, Karyu, etc in '45. And I never turn off any ARM or VEH production until after I lose the DEI. To me, that is the same as HI in the bank. I know I will need a ton of both after 6/44 .. I don't want to be short.

So that's what, 3500 HI per day or so (assuming 30k for pilots)? And even with the LCU Production charts on Tracker, you don't shut them off if you're well over your 'needs curve'? Interesting...

Also, since you brought up the Karyu, what's your preferred method of getting it R&D'd? Maybe it's just that I haven't been into '44 yet so the factories don't like repairing.

[Xargun]

Don't forget I am playing scenario 2 DBB so I have a lot more to spend HI on over scenario 1. All of my experience is with Scenario 1 so I'm not sure if my economy is doing good or not.

[Xargun]

Mar 7th, 1942

Another quick update.


Malaya:

Not much going on here. My troops at Singapore have supply, but the fatigue and disruption did not drop as much as I hoped, so I think another turn of defending for them. But should I Shock Attack or Deliberate Attack next ?


Luzon:

Clark Field has fallen - 3 allied units destroyed. The rest fled to Bataan. They seem vastly out of supply and disrupted so I think I will follow them to Bataan and finish them. Will check stacking limits on Bataan before moving there though.

[Quixote]

Malaya:

Not much going on here. My troops at Singapore have supply, but the fatigue and disruption did not drop as much as I hoped, so I think another turn of defending for them. But should I Shock Attack or Deliberate Attack next ?

From reading, it looks like forts at Singers are still at 1. I'd try one more deliberate attack (less costly to you, and should lower the forts to zero.) If you get a good roll you may take Singers anyway. On a bad roll it shouldn't hurt you like a bad shock result would. I use shock when forts are level 0, or when my forces outnumber/outclass enemy forces badly enough that fort levels (under 4 anyway) almost don't matter.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Xargun

Don't forget I am playing scenario 2 DBB so I have a lot more to spend HI on over scenario 1. All of my experience is with Scenario 1 so I'm not sure if my economy is doing good or not.

Not a lot, some I think. Not sure if they changed the pilot numbers, but stock Scen 2 has a lot more pilots, hence the monthly HI bill is a lot higher. Anyway, the HI situation isn't that much differnent Scen 1 and 2. You start out better with more supply, but there is NO more fuel/oil in the scenario than in Scen 1 so that means your HI is still at the same limits.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
Pax: No HI savings for the first 6 months, or "no" HI savings?! Even in the game I took over, I'm still saving ~2k per day in 2/42, before pilot costs (currently in low-20k per month). Am I (and Xargun?) chronically under-building, or something?

No real savings. Sure, maybe the first 6 months I save a couple hundred thousand total ... really not much. But starting in Jun 42 I usually am saving >75K/mo ... and of course that will ramp up as the conquests finalize and I really start shutting down NSY and MSY. Again, my minimum goal is for 4M in the bank when I lose the DEI ... minimum. I like more, a lot more if I can. That to me means more Shinden, Karyu, etc in '45. And I never turn off any ARM or VEH production until after I lose the DEI. To me, that is the same as HI in the bank. I know I will need a ton of both after 6/44 .. I don't want to be short.

So that's what, 3500 HI per day or so (assuming 30k for pilots)? And even with the LCU Production charts on Tracker, you don't shut them off if you're well over your 'needs curve'? Interesting...

Also, since you brought up the Karyu, what's your preferred method of getting it R&D'd? Maybe it's just that I haven't been into '44 yet so the factories don't like repairing.

Yeah, like 2500 ramping up to about 4000/day.

Remember the charts are only for production. They do not include replacements. I can tell you that once the SOV are activated your LCU losses are staggering. Think BURMA losses, except instead of 10 ID's involved its more like 40 ID's. And you have to expend replacements or you will have B-17's in Fusan and THAT is really bad.

So, if I can have 500K ARM and 50K VEH at 6/44, I am REALLY happy. Can't always get there, but I don't worry about having that much. Remember, ARM/VEH are just like HI. You can't lose them and unlike AC, you don't need any more factories to produce devices for your LCU's.

[Xargun]

Mar 9th, 1942


I turned off some ships and now my naval ship points are dropping about 150 a day - I have 5k stockpiled. I will look over my ships and see what just kicked off, not sure how I got that big of a deficit. Maybe its all the CLs I'm accelerating. I will change 1 to normal and see what happens next turn.


Malaya:

Still 30+ fatigue and 10+ disruption on my units at Singapore - going to give them one more day and then a Deliberate Attack. My bombers are keeping the engineers supressed filling holes in the runways that Rob is not using so Forts should still only be a lvl 1.


Burma:

Mandalay falls to the IJA as a recon unit takes control of the base. Men from the Yokosuka Assault SNLF paradropped into Akyab and captured it - it was empty as recon reported. The TFs there fled north. The good thing is the base is not damaged, the bad is that there are roughly 10k British & Indian troops 1 hex away to the east across the river. Roughly half of the Paratroopers are in Akyab and they will stay as I airlift in more men from a Regiment at Rangoon. When the fleeing allied troops cross the river they have to shock attack so I hope I can get enough troops there to bloody them and keep the base.


Manchukuo:

I just bought out the 9th Inf Division and the 4th Garrison and they are sitting at Port Arthur. The 9th ID is unpacking from the train ride there and updating some older AT guns and the 4th is ready to go. I am using both units to capture the aleutians. They are both prepping for Dutch Harbor and I will be using the 4th to take some islands before Dutch to gain some experience and then I will drop them both on Dutch Harbor at once, with the baby CVLs & CVEs providing air support incase Rob tries to stop me.

Recon has not spotted any convoys to the aleutians yet so I don't think Rob has reinforced them yet so now is the time to strike. Oh - I also bought out a Base Force to go with them and provide AS support and build forts.



A ton of Port Units just arrived in Japan and will be filtering out to my oil ports to help loading oil. They also have some engineers so they can expand ports and build up the bases too.

[Xargun]

Mar 11th, 1942

I have changed a CL from accelerated to Normal to see how much that helps with my Naval ship deficit. I am also getting the Junyo next turn so that will help my deficit as well. I am gaining about 10 Merchant Ship points per turn and my TKs/AOs are finally building.

I have a major problem. Apparently I haven't been shipping enough resources home and am almost out of resources. I have multiple convoys moving but am still running low. So I have sent new convoys and hope the deficit is only a couple days -- I need all the HI and LI I can produce.


Malaya:

The fatigue is still 20+ ish for some units, but disruption is below 10 so I have given the green light for the attack. With luck I'll be sending in the mine sweepers next turn to make my new port usable.... but probably not... In other news, the last allied units outside Singapore in Malaya were destroyed last turn. So once Singapore falls, Malaya is 100% mine.


Borneo:

My troops have finally marched through the swamps and arrived at Tarakan. The initial attack didn't do much, but the shock attack I ordered should capture me the base. Fighters are waiting to land and protect the oil.



Subs between Java and Sumatra have sunk 2 allied TKs this past turn. They were carrying either fuel or oil heading south... they burned brightly before sinking beneath the waves.

Also, I have located at least 1 US CV. Subs off the west coast have reported sightings of American SBD3s performing ASW duties. It happened two turns in a row, so I am guessing at least 1 US CV is now in port on the west coast. No sightings of any CVs since the beginning of the war.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Xargun
I turned off some ships and now my naval ship points are dropping about 150 a day - I have 5k stockpiled. I will look over my ships and see what just kicked off, not sure how I got that big of a deficit. Maybe its all the CLs I'm accelerating. I will change 1 to normal and see what happens next turn.

It will change your NSY drop by about 40 pts per day.

[Xargun]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
It will change your NSY drop by about 40 pts per day.

Doesn't acceleration use twice the Naval Points ? So an accelerated ship actually uses x3 points ? x1 for the normal build, and x2 for the extra build ? So an IJN which costs 30 a day, would cost 90 a day accelerated. Or has this all changed as well ?

[PaxMondo]

Yep but you would already be using 0x or 1x. So you go to 1x or 2x, the delta is still always just 1x.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: Xargun

ORIGINAL: obvert

Not sure what you mean by the bolded part. The research will begin accumulating toward 100% once the factory is completely repaired, but not before even if some points are repaired. If production is 'off' and the factory is fully repaired you will still accumulate research points as normal, the same as if it was turned 'on.'

I just wasn't sure if R&D continues if you don't actually have production of the R&D factory on - I guess for the bonus you have to have this on ? I never payed much attention to R&D in my games until know, so I am an average WitP player, but a noob at R&D.

Xargun, I track just about everything, inclucing R&D factories. I currently have 62 of my factories set at the magic level of 30 (only 13 of them are actually repaired up to the full 30). My R&D repair rate is usually 3-4 per day, but I've seen anything from 2 to 6 repaired any one day. Those outliers are rare though. I recommend you track that, if only for a bit, just to see what is going on with your R&D efforts.

On a different, but related, note, concerning the bonus % increase with 500 engines in the pool... I only very rarely get double the % increase from my factories. I usually get less. For example, I have 6x30 factories working on the A6M models. I get anywhere from 6 to 10 points a day from them. If I ever got 12, it was only once or twice. I have a feeling there is some die roll in there somewhere.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: Xargun

Mar 9th, 1942


I turned off some ships and now my naval ship points are dropping about 150 a day - I have 5k stockpiled. I will look over my ships and see what just kicked off, not sure how I got that big of a deficit. Maybe its all the CLs I'm accelerating. I will change 1 to normal and see what happens next turn.

Why are you accelerating CLs? Are they really worth that cost? The only warships I ever accelerate are CVs and DDs.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: Xargun

A ton of Port Units just arrived in Japan and will be filtering out to my oil ports to help loading oil. They also have some engineers so they can expand ports and build up the bases too.

Check out those port units (4 I think). They can merge with SNLFs to create special base forces. Some of those special base forces will have 128 SNLF squads. Very nice.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

ORIGINAL: Xargun

ORIGINAL: obvert

Not sure what you mean by the bolded part. The research will begin accumulating toward 100% once the factory is completely repaired, but not before even if some points are repaired. If production is 'off' and the factory is fully repaired you will still accumulate research points as normal, the same as if it was turned 'on.'

I just wasn't sure if R&D continues if you don't actually have production of the R&D factory on - I guess for the bonus you have to have this on ? I never payed much attention to R&D in my games until know, so I am an average WitP player, but a noob at R&D.

Xargun, I track just about everything, inclucing R&D factories. I currently have 62 of my factories set at the magic level of 30 (only 13 of them are actually repaired up to the full 30). My R&D repair rate is usually 3-4 per day, but I've seen anything from 2 to 6 repaired any one day. Those outliers are rare though. I recommend you track that, if only for a bit, just to see what is going on with your R&D efforts.

On a different, but related, note, concerning the bonus % increase with 500 engines in the pool... I only very rarely get double the % increase from my factories. I usually get less. For example, I have 6x30 factories working on the A6M models. I get anywhere from 6 to 10 points a day from them. If I ever got 12, it was only once or twice. I have a feeling there is some die roll in there somewhere.

I'm not meticulous at all about the R n D bonus and really have no idea how much it's pushing on a point by point basis. In practical terms for me though it makes the research go at nearly twice the pace it does without ht engine bonus. In the end with the A7M2 I was getting a month ahead every ten days, so three months advance per month of research! [X(]

I can't remember exactly the number of factories I had there but it was somewhere around 150.

Interesting to see if you have to have production 'on' to get the engine bonus. I don't know, and haven't ever seen the bonus not kick in when I have enough engines, but I haven't been using any factories in 'off' mode either.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Yep but you would already be using 0x or 1x. So you go to 1x or 2x, the delta is still always just 1x.

Ok, I lied. Instead of trying to say it, here's the rule from the manual:

13.4 SHIP CONSTRUCTION
Ship Construction – The Japanese player may give instructions to alter the construction rates of ships under construction. Each ship under construction is defaulted to normal construction, but each ship may be ordered to halt construction or to accelerate production. Ships with their construction halted will not have their delay decrease, except as per section 13.4.1. Ships with accelerated production may reduce their delay by an additional day, but this accelerated production will use up double the shipyard points for the additional delay removed (3 times durability for 2 days delay removed).

13.4.1 JAPANESE SHIP PRODUCTION
All ships remove 1 day of delay when the delay is greater than: » 10 * Ship Durability
This automatic delay removal does not cost Naval or Merchant shipyard points. Those ships set for normal construction with a delay less than 10 * Ship Durability require Naval or Merchant shipyard points equal to their durability to remove 1 delay (each day). If set to accelerated production, the ship will remove 2 days of delay (each day) for a cost equal to 3 times its durability. A ship that has a delay over 10 * Ship Durability and less than 30 * Ship Durability may be accelerated. It will remove 1 additional delay (other than the free 1 delay removal) each day for a cost of appropriate shipyard points equal to the ship’s durability.

So, the cost is 0-3x durability and that will get you 1-2 days construction per day depending on how close the ship is to being produced.

[Xargun]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Why are you accelerating CLs? Are they really worth that cost? The only warships I ever accelerate are CVs and DDs.

I wish I had CAs to speed up but all IJN gets are CLs, so I accelerate them. They aren't the best ship, but they have some armor, carry Torpedoes, Depth Charges, and decent AAA. In June 43 they get radar, which makes them a decent surface fighter - in fact some of the ones I'm accelerating will come with the 6/43 upgrade so I will have radar in 42

They can't stand up to enemy capital ships, but they can surely kill lightly escorted convoys and enemy DDs. I plan on using them to lead small DD groups for port raids. If I lose a couple groups its no big deal. If I wait until late 43 / early 44 to get them they will only be fodder for the allied air machine. At least if I get them in 42 I have 6-12 months of use out of them. Plus, what else should I spend Shipyard points on ? Worthless RO subs ?

I am currently accelerating 2 CVs - the rest don't come until 44 without acceleration. As 42 rolls on I will probably begin accelerating a third CV and as the first two come of the yards, I will accelerate 2 more. I figure the CVs from 45 are a waste and am thinking of stopping them. At best I will get them in 44 and not sure how useful they will be even then.

and will probably accelerate a third once some

[Xargun]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli
Check out those port units (4 I think). They can merge with SNLFs to create special base forces. Some of those special base forces will have 128 SNLF squads. Very nice.

Looking at them now and I see what you mean. They combine with a Garrison or Guard unit to make a large special base force. Is there a way I can look at the combined unit without combining them ? If they have CD guns of any size / worth then its a good deal and I'll combine them for sure. I do like the 100 support the port unit has though. With CD guns they will make a nice defensive unit for some smaller bases.