Demo --Air to Air Combat

[bo]

This picture is redundant it shows me picking the Ju bomber

[bo]

Twice when the axis planes fired they missed so I decided not to show that, no damage done to the last allied plane.

The allied plane fired and a DC was the result [C= cleared through] and the last German bomber was cleared through. Praise the lord almost over.

[bo]

Axis planes fire on the last allied fighter and a DA was the result which leads to the allied fighter aborting, the air to air battle is over!

[bo]

This screen shows all the planes on both sides returning to their respective bases, you see a 10 over the BF 109 in Brussels [ number of air and ground units still in Brussels] but I am starting to return all fighters to their bases, but not the bombers as they have some wrecking to do.

[bo]

This screen shows there is no other units on the allied side to continue air combat you only see the German fighter planes who are still flying over Brussels. I did absolutely nothing to change any and all combats, in testing other combats in the last few months I have seen better planes than their adversary be destroyed with a bad roll. This battle this time showed the strength of the Geman fighters but that is not always the case, as you noticed a French bomber slipped through the ring of German fighters.

In the bottom box you can see what happened to 9 of the aircraft engaged in combat they either were destroyed, aborted, or cleared, It does not show the 4 German fighters because they are not damaged and I now have to send them back to their bases. That is done by clicking on the unit and placing it back in its old base or a new one within range.

[bo]

Now the ground support bombing begins in Brussels. There is also a French bomber still in that mix that could cause damage to the attacking German infantry corps.

edited ----10/2 One thing I forgot to mention is had there been an Anti-aircraft gun in the City of Brussels the attacking bombers which had been cleared through would now have to face AA fire which can be pretty deadly at times. There was no AA there.

[bo]

All the bombers have delivered their ordnance [bombs] and have returned to their bases. Please notice there is no number over the Belgian unit that is because all the planes have left.

The orange circle on top of any plane indicates that they have participated in this battle and they are now disorganized for the rest of the turn or until a HQ unit reorganizes them if the HQ has any reorganizing points left.

Why did the program disorganize them, I feel that Harry Rowland and his team made rules to make the game play like real war. I know I want to throw these planes right back into action the next day or week, and it most computer war games thats very possible.

With that said the rule makers at ADG figured that after a battle like that there would be a lot of damage to the aircraft that returned, pilots are worn out, lost aircraft have to be replaced, could take a month to get the unit battle ready again. Again a HQ's unit could make a concentrated effort to refurbish these units more quickly by using all of their assests and transferring it to the combat units [Reorganize] and depleteing themselves and then they become disorganized.

I find these rules amazing and so realistic.

Hope this was helpful.



I ended the demo here because this was an air battle and that is all I wanted to show.

Bo

[composer99]

Looks like the Allies gave a reasonable account of themselves despite being severely outgunned.

Also, re:

ORIGINAL: bo

The battle will include 13 squadrons from both sides. You or I in an actual game may never encounter a large air to air battle as this, I just wanted to show what might happen if it occured.

I should note that battles of that size, or larger, are common features of the mid-game, especially battles at sea (e.g. the Allies in the Italian Coast sea area vs. Axis defences). Not that they happen all the time, but they can happen often enough.

[bo]

ORIGINAL: composer99

Looks like the Allies gave a reasonable account of themselves despite being severely outgunned.

Also, re:

ORIGINAL: bo

The battle will include 13 squadrons from both sides. You or I in an actual game may never encounter a large air to air battle as this, I just wanted to show what might happen if it occured.

I should note that battles of that size, or larger, are common features of the mid-game, especially battles at sea (e.g. the Allies in the Italian Coast sea area vs. Axis defences). Not that they happen all the time, but they can happen often enough.

Thank you composser did not know that I have never gotten that far in a game [;)]

Bo

[bo]

ORIGINAL: composer99

Looks like the Allies gave a reasonable account of themselves despite being severely outgunned.

Also, re:

ORIGINAL: bo

The battle will include 13 squadrons from both sides. You or I in an actual game may never encounter a large air to air battle as this, I just wanted to show what might happen if it occured.

I should note that battles of that size, or larger, are common features of the mid-game, especially battles at sea (e.g. the Allies in the Italian Coast sea area vs. Axis defences). Not that they happen all the time, but they can happen often enough.

I wonder how big battles played out in the board game with all those counters in one hex.

Bo

[paulderynck]

ORIGINAL: bo
I wonder how big battles played out in the board game with all those counters in one hex.

Bo

You'd just place them off to the side somewhere close that is relatively empty. Some turns you might have three or four battles like that on the same front, but using separate areas no one seemed to get them confused.

[bo]

I wanted to bring this to page 1 so if you have any questions please ask

Bo

[henri51]

Bo, should you not have used some of that air power to do a preliminary air strike on the enemy in order to soften up the ground units first? And in that case, would there had been two air battles (one for the air strike and one for the ground support)? (I am a newbie, so...). And it would have been interesting to see how the bombers affected the result of the ground battle. Nice AAR.

[bo]

ORIGINAL: henri51

Bo, should you not have used some of that air power to do a preliminary air strike on the enemy in order to soften up the ground units first? And in that case, would there had been two air battles (one for the air strike and one for the ground support)? (I am a newbie, so...). And it would have been interesting to see how the bombers affected the result of the ground battle. Nice AAR.

Appreciate the question Henri.

That would have been better Henri, the whole idea was about air to air combat in my mind I wanted nothing to do with a ground attack, I just wanted to crowd the skys over Brussels and try to show how the program handles a massive air to air battle. Also it amazes me to this day how the board game players handled 13 planes in a stack, very little fingers I guess [;)]

I have played air and ground battles over and over for a year checking for bugs and also seeing how combat differed with different roll of the dice, rarely was a battle ever duplicated in its outcome, I personally do not like ground strikes to soften up targets, I found out through testing that ground support seemed to reap more benfits to the attack, or at least for me.

Bo

[henri51]

Well I hate to nitpick but if instead of a ground support mission you had put all the aircraft into an air strike mission would not the result have been the same, but there would be no ground battle?

Your comment about the inferiority of ground support attacks vs air strikes is interesting and important if it is always true. It would mean that one should simply forget about air strikes and do only ground support attacks?

[bo]

ORIGINAL: henri51

Well I hate to nitpick but if instead of a ground support mission you had put all the aircraft into an air strike mission would not the result have been the same, but there would be no ground battle?

Your comment about the inferiority of ground support attacks vs air strikes is interesting and important if it is always true. It would mean that one should simply forget about air strikes and do only ground support attacks?

Lets go back over this, the demo had nothing to do with win or lose, nothing to do with air to ground attacks it was simply a demo of air to air combat showing new people how combat works, I would not forget about ground strikes at all my problem was if, the ground attack failed I had nothing to back up my infantry in the next impulse. It could go either way. Each person who learns this game may have a very different opinion.

I had the luxury of testing time and time again, but when you play someone, the first decision you make you will hope it works. There may not be a second decision in that turn.

Bo

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: henri51

Well I hate to nitpick but if instead of a ground support mission you had put all the aircraft into an air strike mission would not the result have been the same, but there would be no ground battle?

Your comment about the inferiority of ground support attacks vs air strikes is interesting and important if it is always true. It would mean that one should simply forget about air strikes and do only ground support attacks?

Whether to use your bombers before the land combat (ground strikes) or during (ground support) is a difficult decision for experienced players. Section 3.4.2 of the Players Manual has advice on this subject both in general and with some specific examples.

[Centuur]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: henri51

Well I hate to nitpick but if instead of a ground support mission you had put all the aircraft into an air strike mission would not the result have been the same, but there would be no ground battle?

Your comment about the inferiority of ground support attacks vs air strikes is interesting and important if it is always true. It would mean that one should simply forget about air strikes and do only ground support attacks?

Whether to use your bombers before the land combat (ground strikes) or during (ground support) is a difficult decision for experienced players. Section 3.4.2 of the Players Manual has advice on this subject both in general and with some specific examples.

There is one general rule I use for this. If I can get an odds shift using ground support with that plane, I will not use it to ground strike. But apart from that, it keeps coming back as one of the more interesting choices to make in the game.