CV's afraid to attack each other

[Mr.Frag]

Take a look at this save.

Japan & USA have all their CV's just above Lunga for a nice brawl.

The trouble is that neither side wants to attack due to the high amount of CAP

I tried them at 50% cap, they had a really nice war. I try them at 60% cap as in this attached save, and they just sit there and glare at each other. No weather icon appeared over this location, and it has happened for a couple of turns in a row (including if you hit execute). Load the save as a H2H game...

[Mr.Frag]

Here's the exact same situation PRIOR to the turn so you can try yourself:

(don't know how to get multiple attachments in one note)

AAR at 50% CAP

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 08/17/42

Weather: Partly Cloudy

Air attack on TF at 38,37

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 104
D3A Val x 49
B5N Kate x 38

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 144

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero x 70 destroyed
A6M2 Zero x 3 damaged
D3A Val x 9 destroyed
D3A Val x 26 damaged
B5N Kate x 9 destroyed
B5N Kate x 28 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat x 42 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat x 16 damaged

ENS M. Bright of VF-3 is credited with kill number 5

ENS M. Bright of VF-3 bails out and is RESCUED

Allied Ships
CVE Long Island, Bomb hits 5, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
CV Lexington, Torpedo hits 2, on fire
CV Saratoga, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 2, on fire
CV Yorktown, Bomb hits 3
CV Enterprise
CV Hornet


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 38,37

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 12

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 49

no losses

no losses


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 38,37

Japanese aircraft
A6M3 Zero x 9
D3A Val x 1

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 79

no losses

no losses


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 38,37

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 74
D3A Val x 61
B5N Kate x 21

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 125

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero x 58 destroyed
A6M2 Zero x 2 damaged
D3A Val x 11 destroyed
D3A Val x 13 damaged
B5N Kate x 7 destroyed
B5N Kate x 5 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat x 21 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat x 17 damaged

ENS M. Bright of VF-3 is credited with kill number 6

Allied Ships
CV Yorktown, Bomb hits 3, on fire
CV Hornet, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
CV Lexington, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
CV Saratoga, Bomb hits 4, on fire
CV Enterprise, Bomb hits 2


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 38,37

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 14
B5N Kate x 12

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 49

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero x 1 destroyed
B5N Kate x 7 destroyed
B5N Kate x 7 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat x 7 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat x 2 damaged

PO1 A.Nojima of CII-1 Daitai is credited with kill number 3

Allied Ships
CV Hornet, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 38,37

Japanese aircraft
A6M3 Zero x 9
D3A Val x 1

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 50

no losses

no losses


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 38,37

Japanese aircraft
D3A Val x 83
B5N Kate x 89

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 98

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A Val x 16 destroyed
B5N Kate x 42 destroyed
B5N Kate x 1 damaged


LCDR C. Fenton of VF-42 is credited with kill number 5

Allied Ships
CVE Long Island, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AAR at 60% CAP
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 08/17/42

Weather: Partly Cloudy

To reproduce:

Set TF's destination for 38,37 (both Japan & Allied TF).

Set all fighters to 50% CAP/escort, all bombers to Naval Attack, with the first type (Val/SBD to 10% naval search).

Run it and watch them mass kill each other.

Repeat EXACTLY the same steps, but set fighters to 60% instead of 50%. They'll sit there and throw nothing but curses at each other.

[CapAndGown]

I haven't run your save yet, but I can tell you that in testing the patch, I ran a scenario where 6 US CVs had 90% CAP up, over 200 planes. Despite this amount of CAP, the Japs still attacked. (BTW, the japs didn't do so well, as you might imagine. )

[Mr.Frag]

Try it, you'll like it. Just for your info, when it runs at 50% CAP, the Yanks convert into the Submarine service, with a few minor scratches to some of Japan's ships (just enough to add some character )

I find it interesting that in your version Japan lost. You must have been missing a fair number of Japan CV's, cause in the attached save, you'll see every CV/CVL/CVE in the game except the Wasp and stuff that is not available yet. Japan GROSSLY outnumbers USA in planes. Too the point I felt bad about doing it.

You're looking at 612 native Japan aircraft vs 440 native USA aircraft. Haven't crunched the numbers, but it seems like about a 2 to 1 ratio of escort vs cap in Japan's favour. That wastes the USA fighters allowing massive penetration by the bombers.

Keep in mind, this takes place at 0 range, so the USA is getting to use the extra 60 torpedo bombers that are normally napping on the deck, not that they help any :rolleyes:

Funny enough, I forgot I had the CVE Long Island in the TF, so it is just sitting there absorbing hits with no aircraft

Thats even more weapons that should be hitting the real CV's

While the A6M2 is not great, it is good enough to deal with the F4F-4 in double the numbers. It was simply too light an aircraft to deal with any damage. It could still ruin your day if it was behind you

--- edit ---

Correction, there is 5 USA CV's, not 4 but 4 of the 5 have upgraded to TBF's instead of TBD, so range is not as large a factor at this stage. All but 15 aircraft would still be flying to range of 7/9