Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Was Exeter hit before?

Yes. In the battle NE of Soerbaja by carriers.

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Was Exeter hit before?

Yes. In the battle NE of Soerbaja by carriers.

Will she make it? I really like the RN CAs. In my (admittedly very limited experience) they seem to do a lot better then even the modern US counterparts.

[Alfred]

With the additional data provided there are some significant refinements to be made to the analysis.

1. You are leaving about 3300 AV at Pegu and shifting about 1800 AV out to Moulmein. This 1800 AV together with what you have next to Moulmein constitutes the entire Operation Muttley strike force. That is not enough. You can thin out another 400-500 AV from Pegu for Muttley.

2. The Rangoon investing forces are not that brittle and you can afford to thin them out by 400-500 AV. A couple of approaches are possible there.

(a) send the 7th AIF over to Muttley, or
(b) send the British bdes plus 1-2 Indian units to Muttley

The four Chinese units at Rangoon (1230 AV) will do fine on the defence, especially if corseted with the Australians

3. The recommendations of points 1 and 2 above is based on the fact you do not have time for the Muttley units to get anywhere near 100 preparation points for Moulmein. You need to use brute force to quickly capture Moulmein. For that, relying upon Chinese units is too risky unless a sledgehammer is brought. Thus instead of your contemplated 1800 AV (plus what is currently next to Moulmein), I am recommending Muttley have 2600-2800 AV.

4. You are not using replacements and reserve mode well. Reserve mode is the game equivalent to the real world rotation of units. Here are some practical suggestions of how you should be approaching replacements and reserve mode.

(a) at Pegu, as a minimum the following Chinese units should be moved into reserve mode:

15 Corps
21 Corps
83 Corps
89 Corps
5 Cav
8 New

All six units are currently in combat mode with the following respective AV - 26, 9, 27, 0, 0, 19. That is an average AV of 13 which means they are completely useless in combat. By virtue that they must be in such a condition due to having most of their devices disabled, all they provide is easy kills and VPs to Japan.

(b) turn off replacements. You need to be much more judicious in selecting who receives replacements. Taking replacements should be viewed as taking small bites of your meal and fully masticating before taking another bite; not stuffing your mouth and speed swallowing. As the replacements will come in as disabled devices it does not make sense to have them arriving in units with a high disabled rate already. In particular do not have replacements turned on for units in reserve. The first priority for units in reserve is to recover their disabled devices and often (I don't know if this applies here) recover their organic supply levels. Adding disabled replacements, which also costs supply thereby retarding the build up of the unit's organic supply, is not the way to go.

(c) units in reserve mode will not be targeted by enemy aircraft. Ground Attack targets the strongest units as measured by their AV. Thus units in reserve mode with a low AV will be overlooked when there is a rich target environment of much stronger LCUs.

5. The follow up to the previous point with regard to the Rangoon units is that the 45th Recce Tank Regt and the 150th RAC Tank Regt with respective AV of 0 and 19 should be put into reserve mode.

6. Currently you have three LCUs next to Moulmein. They have been given bad movement orders which do not assist with Muttley.

(a) South West of Moulmein, the unit has a due east movement arrow.
(b) the two Chinese units due east of Moulmein have been given orders to recross the Salween to the rally point north of Moulmein.

Both these movements considerably weaken Muttley. Instead what you should do is cancel their movements so that eventually, after the main Muttley force from Pegu/Rangoon has forced the Salween into Moulmein, they can enter Moulmein from different hexsides which cuts off enemy retreat paths. To fully effect that you should move one of the Chinese units to the southwest so that it can enter Moulmein from the SE hexside. None of these units will be crossing a river when they enter so there is no good reason for them to not subsequently enter Moulmein singly. Even just positioning them outside of Moulmein, although it makes them vulnerable to a relieving force, will cut off the LOC and is better than what you intend doing.

7. You have several units, all presumably small, with movement arrows indicating they will enter Rangoon and Pegu through green coloured hexsides. That is a lost opportunity as I doubt their additional combat power will add much to what is already present in those two locations. You should instead move them to enter via red coloured hexsides. Time is not of the essence with regard to Rangoon and Pegu; well at least not until Muttley is over. This way you remove any possibility of supply coming from the Chiang Mai railhead plus it opens up additional retreat paths for your units if subsequently found to be necessary.

8. In the interim consider using your 2Es to hit Chiang Mai which apparently have reached level 4 already. Purpose:

(a) force up supply consumption at Chiang Mai to retard the growth of excess supply there which could be exported to Rangoon/Pegu,
(b) prevent further development its airfields so that is cannot be fully substituted for the loss of Moulmein,
(c) conserve Allied airframes whilst still contributing to Muttley indirectly

Alfred

[catwhoorg]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister


Will she make it? I really like the RN CAs. In my (admittedly very limited experience) they seem to do a lot better then even the modern US counterparts.

Exeter, Achilles - both ships I have a great affection for in the game.

No prizes for guessing why.

A shame we don't get to play with HMS Ajax, but she was mainly in the Med, then out of action for a good long stretch.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Was Exeter hit before?

Yes. In the battle NE of Soerbaja by carriers.

Will she make it? I really like the RN CAs. In my (admittedly very limited experience) they seem to do a lot better then even the modern US counterparts.

I'd say the odds are about 80:20 against. System damage is in the high 50s, and major flooding is also bad and can't be fixed there. If I can get System down enough to survive the flooding there's only two ways out. The eastern route is lousy with carriers and cruisers, and hugging the coast to Batavia and running the Sunda Strait is full of subs and his air search, backed up by torpedo planes.

[Bullwinkle58]

To Alfred.

Wow. You would be a very scary opponent. [:)]

Clearly my grasp of the land game is at very average levels. Some I did not know, such as the Reserve mode mechanisms and air attacks. I was also operating under the assumption that I had a ticking clock on Chinese replacement at all vis a vis Chungking. Replacements seem to me to have a very large random factor; I have always left the taps open everywhere to try to beat the odds and get some replacements in somewhere. I had not thought through the idea of not replacing in Reserve units. I was more of a "they're safer, put new men there" mindset. Your explanation makes sense and is 180 degrees from my past practices.

I also do not think enough about hexsides. Part of it is playing with hexes off at all. Part of it is too high a focus on roads and rails and an aversion to going cross-country in Burma. But you are completely right on closing off sides with soft, weak, throw-away units, of which I have many in the area. I have made his air targeting job a lot easier. If I were playing this again starting three months ago I'd do a lot differently.

I have been thinking of Chiang Mai as first a RR problem (Bangkok), and secondarily as a minor AF problem. But Level 4, potential 7, is not minor any longer. And your points about supply seepage to the battle zone is one I had not thought of.

The three units near Moulmein have a checkered past. The brown Indian one on the coast is the Tavoy refugees, pounded to mush and out of supply. I don't know if the Tavoy Japanese are right behind them or if they stayed put. I have no recon available. I had seen them wholly as a hexside blocking force, either on the road from Tavoy, or one hex to the east. They can't survive any sort of supplied attack. The two Chinese I aimed to the rally point two turns ago I think to hold the hex, as well as add low-supply but otherwise good AV to the mix. On the last turn one Japanese LCU appeared in the rally hex. Don't know what it is. Pegu LCU count is the same, but I get a read of one xAP in Moulmein harbor, so it might be new. Regardless, your point about leaving those two Chinese units south of the river to join the stack without the crossing is good. But they are very low on supply.

I hear you on the Auusie 7th. After the two USMC divisions it's my favorite LCU right now. It has taken very, very little damage from the air. I think it has six disabled squads, pretty amazing. I hesitate to move it, but I think it's my best shot. As you say, Moulmein will not have good prep. In some cases virtually no prep. My hesitation is because Chinese units can do OK as they stand, but when they break and rout the losses are fearsome.

Overall I agree with you I have to re-do my replacement settings. They were driven by misunderstanding and misremembering (pick one [:)]) the mechanics of how replacements arrive disabled. Head slapper.

Thanks a bunch, Alfred. Moulmein may not work, but this whole campaign has been a massive learning experience.

[Bullwinkle58]

Start of August 11th turn.

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Thanks a bunch, Alfred. Moulmein may not work, but this whole campaign has been a massive learning experience.

Learning by doing. The best way to do it. [:)]

I hope the Exeter makes it. If I remember correctly she is not scheduled for withdrawal which makes her extra valuable!

[Bullwinkle58]

August 10, 1942

Soerbaja Hit

1) The noose around Soerbaja tightens. AG Canopus, running a single-ship supply run into the beleaguered base, is sunk in open water north of Oz by I-164. One more xAKL is en route, but there are no good options to supply the base. Batavia has supply but no ships. The route in from the east is plugged tight by the IJN. I have taken all but a token CAP out so no air is using supply. Levels went to 120 today.

Several ships are trying to patch enough to sortie, but a very heavy port raid hurt those prospects today. Japanese losses were stiff, but three ships were further wounded.

Afternoon Air attack on Soerabaja , at 56,104

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 35 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 16
B5N2 Kate x 3
G3M2 Nell x 6
G4M1 Betty x 48

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M2 Nell: 5 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 24 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied Ships
CL Concord, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CA Exeter, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage
DD Fortune, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Port hits 4

2) Tabiteuea dot base near Tarawa went to Level 1 AF this week. A bunch of ships are there. SS Snapper pokes her nose in and gets hammered for 22 hits, one penetrating. She auto-routes back to Pearl. We'll see.

Ro-34 is patrolling near Akyab, probably trying to further cut Ramree off. Very little is going in there. Chittagong is the main supply base for the Burma effort.

In better news, Tarpon also goes into Toyohara and puts a fish into large E-escorted xAK Tamagawa Maru, leaving her on fire.

3) Burma night bombing sees one raid get lost. Three remaining Liberators hit Rangoon Manpower. No damage, one lost, two damaged.

4) Japanese bombing in Burma is bad, but I have not instituted the changes discussed above in Alfred's posts. At least with MUTTLEY as a plan there is a point to it all.

Allied daytime bombing tries to go high/low. B-17s at 32,000, Blenheims at 22,000, the rest at 100, 1000, and 2000 feet. Only the Blens get through, for two hits and 686 Fires. Two kinds of Zeros and Tojo are a normal CAP now. The Forts lose one with two damaged.

Japan does one odd raid, sending a force all the way up to Magwe. I suspect a unit probe. It is a ground attack and give a locate on one defender. There are more than that there.

Morning Air attack on 104th RAF Base Force, at 57,47 (Magwe)

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 33 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 10
G3M3 Nell x 3
G4M1 Betty x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M3 Nell: 1 damaged

5) PBang bombing has slacked off enough that Forts get in two points of build today. Chungking has cursory attention as well. Supplies there stay at 420 every day, with big LCUs at 100% supply, but many AA and base forces at zero.

6) Building:

Mare Island expands airfield to size 5
Ulak Island expands fortifications to size 2
Trincomalee expands airfield to size 7
Imphal expands airfield to size 5
Madras expands port to size 8
Vizagapatnam expands fortifications to size 3
Cocos Islands expands airfield to size 5

[Bullwinkle58]

Achieved on August 10. I seeeeee you!

[Bullwinkle58]

August 11, 1942

"Nobody Suspects the Spanish Inquisition!!!

This turn took me over two hours. Like assembling a Swiss watch. I put Alfred's advice into motion, especially on re-jiggering reinforcement statuses with disabled device totals. I did commit the Aussie 7th to MUTTLEY. It's a march, but it's worth it I think.

1) The title refers to this event. What kind of crazy idiot lays mines in the Irrawaddy River? [:)] But if you want to use heavy cruisers as minesweepers I won't object. This also says he may be letting go of the resident surface/bombardment TF in Rangoon harbor. Maybe for supply reasons?

TF 119 encounters mine field at 54,54

Japanese Ships
DD Yunagi
DD Asanagi
DD Matsukaze
DD Sagiri
CA Furutaka, Mine hits 1

7 mines cleared

2) As Batavia rapidly empties of troops an air evac is underway. Some going to Cocos I. which has become a stout little air base. Some to Darwin. The fighters to PBang where there is plenty of supply and av support. They will be eaten down to a nub, but they may buy some peace for fort-building.

One raid where they mattered.

Morning Air attack on Palembang , at 48,91

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid spotted at 27 NM, estimated altitude 19,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 26
A6M3 Zero x 8
G4M1 Betty x 25
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 13

Allied aircraft
Fulmar II x 2
Sea Hurricane Ib x 1
P-39D Airacobra x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed
G4M1 Betty: 4 destroyed, 6 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-39D Airacobra: 1 destroyed

Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 2

3) Bombing force at Chungking picked up 200-300% today. About time for another ground attack I think. Forts are the same and all the infantry is rested and fully supplied. Most of the arty has at least 50 supply. Some of the HQs are out, but there are many of them. I think a next attack still doesn't drop forts, but I could be wrong. It would be bloody for sure.

About-the-best recon I'm going to get of Tsuyung says there are 4 LCUs there. About 2500 men, about 25 guns. A holding force. If and when Rangoon is mine the Burma Road might be possible without too much time lag.

4) In Burma many units are on the move. Troop bombing is normally bad. One raid in particular is damaging. 62 unescorted Bettys . . . If only.

Afternoon Air attack on 30th Chinese Corps, at 55,53 (Pegu)

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 17 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 62

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 9 damaged

Allied ground losses:
287 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 20 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 12 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

5) On the ground the Tavoy refugees are halted and told to stand fast. The two Chinese corps south of the rally point are split, one to stand, one to move to the SE hex from Moulmein. The small force north of the river, part of which is prepping for Chinag Mai, is split in two directions. The incoming theater reserves north of Rangoon are somewhat split to address hexsides. One light armor unit in Bassein is sent across the river SW to the marshes to close that side when it comes into Rangoon going NE.

6) Bombing is shifted to Chiang Mai. There is no CAP. Multiple recon planes are hit or destroyed.

7) O16 lays a tiny minefield in Balikpapan and is hit by DCs three times on the withdrawal. Soerbaja cannot serve as a sub base any longer. It has fuel but cannot rearm anything. Some of its subs are sent to Colombo, some to Calcutta where there is an AS, and some to Darwin.

8) Soerbaja port and yard are bombed again. HMS Exeter looks ot be a gonner. The other two ships in, a DD and a CL, are ordered to ready to get underway despite major damage.

Afternoon Air attack on Soerabaja , at 56,104

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 13 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 39

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 13 damaged

Allied Ships
CA Exeter, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

August 11, 1942

"Nobody Suspects the Spanish Inquisition!!!

This turn took me over two hours. Like assembling a Swiss watch...


... 6) Bombing is shifted to Chiang Mai. There is no CAP. Multiple recon planes are hit or destroyed...

Actually I think the title of the post more appropriately reflected this action than that of mining the Irrawaddy. The mining is just bringing a new weapon into the same fight and one which should have been considered by your opponent. Still a frontal assault albeit one of much greater subtlety than ordering a deliberate attack.

On the other hand, hitting the Chiang Mai airfields appears to be launching a new offensive not related to the main show at Rangoon/Pegu but in actual fact is an indirect attack by hitting the support pillars of the Rangoon/Pegu Japanese defence. It would have caught your opponent completely by surprise. Any data on just how many recon planes were lost; planes which I daresay were being used to improve the effectiveness of the enemy 2E Ground Attacks.

Your opponent should respond quickly by reallocating some defence to Chiang Mai. That will help to reduce the pressure on you elsewhere. Your task now is to not get suckered into a CAP trap over Chiang Mai but hit other auxiliary airfields which support the Japanese defence. If Raeheng (or any other airbase) has reached level 4 and you can reach it, target it. Keep him on the hop. Once the enemy starts dispersing their fighters you can seriously start contemplating setting up some CAP traps.

For the history buffs, IIRC the Spanish Inquisition had 18 chapters who whilst following central policy, exercised their own initiative. Make your opponent feel as if he is confronting 18 Inquisitions.

Alfred

Edit: PS. Only 2 hours. I see you are still on training wheels.

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

To Alfred.

Wow. You would be a very scary opponent. [:)]


Not scary, much more likely to be viewed as an unpleasant and unreasonable opponent because I would not:

(a) allow any mulligans - one makes a mistake one lives with the consequences, any ten years olds should just move along to the Xbox stand
(b) be interested in assisting the opponent to enjoy playing his game - war is no entertainment, the game attempts to be as true as possible (within it's inherent limitations) to real world considerations, the events covered by the game were deadly serious
(c) be sympathetic to an opponent who has not invested the time to learn the game mechanics or hasn't thought through the consequences of his plans
(d) hesitate to identify an opponent who baled out without a very good reason; death would be acceptable, provided it came as a surprise
(e) disregard the victory conditions set by the devs

And before anyone accuses me of it, never once over the years of me commenting on AE and its predecessor have any of my suggestions been criticised as being "gamey"


Clearly my grasp of the land game is at very average levels.


If by average you mean at a level commonly exhibited by the majority of players, perhaps. This game, precisely because it attempts to replicate (within its limitations) real world considerations places a premium on logistics. Some AE players are drawn to the game primarily by the logistics aspect, but most don't. Most are drawn in by the naval combat aspect, with the aerial combat aspect a close second. This is why so many players get bored if they are not doing some "killing" when in fact, just as it is in the real world, not doing "killing" is usually the better course of action. For the participants at the pointy end, war is a long boring period punctuated by short periods of intense activity. Very few play AE because they are primarily drawn to it's land combat. Those who are generally concentrate on Eastern Front games which are designed with land warfare uppermost.

In your case you are drawn to the naval aspects. Flanking considerations have limited relevance for naval operations. ZOCs have very limited applicability to naval warfare. LOC is significantly different to SLOC, especially when implemented in computer games. It isn't surprising you prefer to see the natural blue of the ocean without the imposition of unnatural hexagons.


Some I did not know, such as the Reserve mode mechanisms and air attacks. I was also operating under the assumption that I had a ticking clock on Chinese replacement at all vis a vis Chungking. Replacements seem to me to have a very large random factor; I have always left the taps open everywhere to try to beat the odds and get some replacements in somewhere. I had not thought through the idea of not replacing in Reserve units. I was more of a "they're safer, put new men there" mindset. Your explanation makes sense and is 180 degrees from my past practices.


Have a read of this current main AE forum thread on logistics

tm.asp?m=3428992

and the link provided back to the Logistics 101 thread. Whilst it is dealing with supply considerations in China it is actually relevant to replacements. The key is to recall the supply path cost which impacts not just on the movement of supplies and raw materials but the capacity to take replacements. The supply path cost together with the operations mode of the LCU are the main determinants on how often replacements are taken. A unit in rest mode will more often look to take replacements than a cohabiting unit which is in combat mode.


I also do not think enough about hexsides. Part of it is playing with hexes off at all. Part of it is too high a focus on roads and rails and an aversion to going cross-country in Burma. But you are completely right on closing off sides with soft, weak, throw-away units, of which I have many in the area. I have made his air targeting job a lot easier. If I were playing this again starting three months ago I'd do a lot differently.


This is common amongst many AE players who are not creative enough in using their assets, instead relying upon frontal approaches. When confronted by an opponent who shares the same mindset, the biggest mass usually wins. Quite some time ago there was a lengthy discussion in Cribtop's AAR of indirect approaches. He has implemented them very well and is well on his way to achieving an auto victory for Japan, by the latest on 1 January 1944 but with reasonable prospects of achieving it in the last quarter of 1943.

I have always said that one of the key tactical ploys is to make one's opponent choose. The more choices to be made the greater likelihood that the opponent will make a mistake.


I have been thinking of Chiang Mai as first a RR problem (Bangkok), and secondarily as a minor AF problem. But Level 4, potential 7, is not minor any longer. And your points about supply seepage to the battle zone is one I had not thought of.

The three units near Moulmein have a checkered past. The brown Indian one on the coast is the Tavoy refugees, pounded to mush and out of supply. I don't know if the Tavoy Japanese are right behind them or if they stayed put. I have no recon available. I had seen them wholly as a hexside blocking force, either on the road from Tavoy, or one hex to the east. They can't survive any sort of supplied attack. The two Chinese I aimed to the rally point two turns ago I think to hold the hex, as well as add low-supply but otherwise good AV to the mix. On the last turn one Japanese LCU appeared in the rally hex. Don't know what it is. Pegu LCU count is the same, but I get a read of one xAP in Moulmein harbor, so it might be new. Regardless, your point about leaving those two Chinese units south of the river to join the stack without the crossing is good. But they are very low on supply.


Oh I do recall the unfocussed wanderings of those Chinese units. It only took Moses 40 days to lead the Israelites across the desert because he was focussed. You instead looked at Chiang Mai first, then Raeheng, then entered an orienteering event, never being quite focussed on getting the units to complement their marching tempos, let alone settling on an objective and a meaningful mission for them.[:)]

Regarding their low supply levels, at least for the beat up Indian refugees, you can and should drop some supply from the air. That is one way to avoid the eventual CAP trap I mentioned in the previous post. You won't like this but being on a coastal hex you should interrupt your PA from their usual naval search missions to every so often drop some supply. Place the units on rest mode and being stationary they will start to recover. If they get shattered by a relief force they will have contributed by drawing away from Moulmein enemy units

I hear you on the Auusie 7th. After the two USMC divisions it's my favorite LCU right now. It has taken very, very little damage from the air. I think it has six disabled squads, pretty amazing. I hesitate to move it, but I think it's my best shot. As you say, Moulmein will not have good prep. In some cases virtually no prep. My hesitation is because Chinese units can do OK as they stand, but when they break and rout the losses are fearsome.

Overall I agree with you I have to re-do my replacement settings. They were driven by misunderstanding and misremembering (pick one [:)]) the mechanics of how replacements arrive disabled. Head slapper.

Thanks a bunch, Alfred. Moulmein may not work, but this whole campaign has been a massive learning experience.

There is a distinct possibility that Muttley will not deliver Moulmein. Not least being your own supply considerations in the midst of the monsoon season. It will however be you setting the agenda and forcing your opponent to respond. All the while Japanese access to the oil/fuel of Palembang becomes more and more a moot point.

Alfred

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Alfred

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

August 11, 1942

"Nobody Suspects the Spanish Inquisition!!!

This turn took me over two hours. Like assembling a Swiss watch...


... 6) Bombing is shifted to Chiang Mai. There is no CAP. Multiple recon planes are hit or destroyed...

Actually I think the title of the post more appropriately reflected this action than that of mining the Irrawaddy. The mining is just bringing a new weapon into the same fight and one which should have been considered by your opponent. Still a frontal assault albeit one of much greater subtlety than ordering a deliberate attack.

On the other hand, hitting the Chiang Mai airfields appears to be launching a new offensive not related to the main show at Rangoon/Pegu but in actual fact is an indirect attack by hitting the support pillars of the Rangoon/Pegu Japanese defence. It would have caught your opponent completely by surprise. Any data on just how many recon planes were lost; planes which I daresay were being used to improve the effectiveness of the enemy 2E Ground Attacks.

This is the combat report for that attack. The animation showed six Recon-type planes damaged, one torpedo type damaged, and one torpedo-type destroyed. The Lily reported shows the FOW implications. It has long been my belief that any Japanese plane sighted which is not 100% IDed is called a torpedo-type by the FOW module.


Afternoon Air attack on Chiang Mai , at 58,53

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 33 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
Blenheim IV x 3
Wellington Ic x 2

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-48-Ib Lily: 1 destroyed on ground

Allied aircraft losses
Wellington Ic: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
5 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 5


Your opponent should respond quickly by reallocating some defence to Chiang Mai. That will help to reduce the pressure on you elsewhere. Your task now is to not get suckered into a CAP trap over Chiang Mai but hit other auxiliary airfields which support the Japanese defence. If Raeheng (or any other airbase) has reached level 4 and you can reach it, target it. Keep him on the hop. Once the enemy starts dispersing their fighters you can seriously start contemplating setting up some CAP traps.

Good idea to mix it up. My raids are so small that a real CAP trap isn't needed to whack them. 2-3 planes is a medium effort now. I have done a few CAP traps over the months, but at Singers and PBang. Burma doesn't have the numbers. All my CAP and LRCAP is trying to do there now is disrupt bombing. I can't really hurt his inventories much. AA does that if anything does.

For the history buffs, IIRC the Spanish Inquisition had 18 chapters who whilst following central policy, exercised their own initiative. Make your opponent feel as if he is confronting 18 Inquisitions.

And encountering 18 models of Comfy Chair? [:)]

Alfred

Edit: PS. Only 2 hours. I see you are still on training wheels.

By some measures. But I DO have a life (and a wife.) Friday I started dealing with AE at 7 AM. Between turns in two PBEM games, AARs, research, forum reading and posting, screen shots, and more forum postings I was still on AE at 4 PM. At some point it becomes a job.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Alfred

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

To Alfred.

Wow. You would be a very scary opponent. [:)]


Not scary, much more likely to be viewed as an unpleasant and unreasonable opponent because I would not:

(a) allow any mulligans - one makes a mistake one lives with the consequences, any ten years olds should just move along to the Xbox stand
(b) be interested in assisting the opponent to enjoy playing his game - war is no entertainment, the game attempts to be as true as possible (within it's inherent limitations) to real world considerations, the events covered by the game were deadly serious
(c) be sympathetic to an opponent who has not invested the time to learn the game mechanics or hasn't thought through the consequences of his plans
(d) hesitate to identify an opponent who baled out without a very good reason; death would be acceptable, provided it came as a surprise
(e) disregard the victory conditions set by the devs

And before anyone accuses me of it, never once over the years of me commenting on AE and its predecessor have any of my suggestions been criticised as being "gamey"


Clearly my grasp of the land game is at very average levels.


If by average you mean at a level commonly exhibited by the majority of players, perhaps. This game, precisely because it attempts to replicate (within its limitations) real world considerations places a premium on logistics. Some AE players are drawn to the game primarily by the logistics aspect, but most don't. Most are drawn in by the naval combat aspect, with the aerial combat aspect a close second. This is why so many players get bored if they are not doing some "killing" when in fact, just as it is in the real world, not doing "killing" is usually the better course of action. For the participants at the pointy end, war is a long boring period punctuated by short periods of intense activity. Very few play AE because they are primarily drawn to it's land combat. Those who are generally concentrate on Eastern Front games which are designed with land warfare uppermost.

In your case you are drawn to the naval aspects. Flanking considerations have limited relevance for naval operations. ZOCs have very limited applicability to naval warfare. LOC is significantly different to SLOC, especially when implemented in computer games. It isn't surprising you prefer to see the natural blue of the ocean without the imposition of unnatural hexagons.


Some I did not know, such as the Reserve mode mechanisms and air attacks. I was also operating under the assumption that I had a ticking clock on Chinese replacement at all vis a vis Chungking. Replacements seem to me to have a very large random factor; I have always left the taps open everywhere to try to beat the odds and get some replacements in somewhere. I had not thought through the idea of not replacing in Reserve units. I was more of a "they're safer, put new men there" mindset. Your explanation makes sense and is 180 degrees from my past practices.


Have a read of this current main AE forum thread on logistics

tm.asp?m=3428992

and the link provided back to the Logistics 101 thread. Whilst it is dealing with supply considerations in China it is actually relevant to replacements. The key is to recall the supply path cost which impacts not just on the movement of supplies and raw materials but the capacity to take replacements. The supply path cost together with the operations mode of the LCU are the main determinants on how often replacements are taken. A unit in rest mode will more often look to take replacements than a cohabiting unit which is in combat mode.


I also do not think enough about hexsides. Part of it is playing with hexes off at all. Part of it is too high a focus on roads and rails and an aversion to going cross-country in Burma. But you are completely right on closing off sides with soft, weak, throw-away units, of which I have many in the area. I have made his air targeting job a lot easier. If I were playing this again starting three months ago I'd do a lot differently.


This is common amongst many AE players who are not creative enough in using their assets, instead relying upon frontal approaches. When confronted by an opponent who shares the same mindset, the biggest mass usually wins. Quite some time ago there was a lengthy discussion in Cribtop's AAR of indirect approaches. He has implemented them very well and is well on his way to achieving an auto victory for Japan, by the latest on 1 January 1944 but with reasonable prospects of achieving it in the last quarter of 1943.

I have always said that one of the key tactical ploys is to make one's opponent choose. The more choices to be made the greater likelihood that the opponent will make a mistake.


I have been thinking of Chiang Mai as first a RR problem (Bangkok), and secondarily as a minor AF problem. But Level 4, potential 7, is not minor any longer. And your points about supply seepage to the battle zone is one I had not thought of.

The three units near Moulmein have a checkered past. The brown Indian one on the coast is the Tavoy refugees, pounded to mush and out of supply. I don't know if the Tavoy Japanese are right behind them or if they stayed put. I have no recon available. I had seen them wholly as a hexside blocking force, either on the road from Tavoy, or one hex to the east. They can't survive any sort of supplied attack. The two Chinese I aimed to the rally point two turns ago I think to hold the hex, as well as add low-supply but otherwise good AV to the mix. On the last turn one Japanese LCU appeared in the rally hex. Don't know what it is. Pegu LCU count is the same, but I get a read of one xAP in Moulmein harbor, so it might be new. Regardless, your point about leaving those two Chinese units south of the river to join the stack without the crossing is good. But they are very low on supply.


Oh I do recall the unfocussed wanderings of those Chinese units. It only took Moses 40 days to lead the Israelites across the desert because he was focussed. You instead looked at Chiang Mai first, then Raeheng, then entered an orienteering event, never being quite focussed on getting the units to complement their marching tempos, let alone settling on an objective and a meaningful mission for them.[:)]

Regarding their low supply levels, at least for the beat up Indian refugees, you can and should drop some supply from the air. That is one way to avoid the eventual CAP trap I mentioned in the previous post. You won't like this but being on a coastal hex you should interrupt your PA from their usual naval search missions to every so often drop some supply. Place the units on rest mode and being stationary they will start to recover. If they get shattered by a relief force they will have contributed by drawing away from Moulmein enemy units

I hear you on the Auusie 7th. After the two USMC divisions it's my favorite LCU right now. It has taken very, very little damage from the air. I think it has six disabled squads, pretty amazing. I hesitate to move it, but I think it's my best shot. As you say, Moulmein will not have good prep. In some cases virtually no prep. My hesitation is because Chinese units can do OK as they stand, but when they break and rout the losses are fearsome.

Overall I agree with you I have to re-do my replacement settings. They were driven by misunderstanding and misremembering (pick one [:)]) the mechanics of how replacements arrive disabled. Head slapper.

Thanks a bunch, Alfred. Moulmein may not work, but this whole campaign has been a massive learning experience.

There is a distinct possibility that Muttley will not deliver Moulmein. Not least being your own supply considerations in the midst of the monsoon season. It will however be you setting the agenda and forcing your opponent to respond. All the while Japanese access to the oil/fuel of Palembang becomes more and more a moot point.

Alfred

Lots of gems in here, Alfred. I need to get tot he Sunday turns. But I have read this and will re-read it Monday. In particular the "wandering Chinese" portions hit home. I re-directed them every time he reacted, but in the process didn't get much use out of them.

I give MUTTLEY at best a 50% chance. I expect him to react on the water aggressively once the plan is clearer.

[Bullwinkle58]

August 12, 1942

Circling

Like fighters looking for an opening. Various pieces continue to move.

1) My long, large supply train from CT into Bombay is found today by I-24. xAK Johilla sunk. Not a lot of escort or air ASW assets up here, but it's also a pretty long patrol for him. Four big TFs already in to Bombay and unloaded. About 350,000 supply in the pipeline, flooding the bases all the way to Calcutta where the Chittagong relief convoys load. Much more still in the pipe from CT.

2) CM Abdiel, an interesting little ship, is due to withdraw very soon. Most Allied players know she can serve as a FT asset, and she is very fast. DD fast. I hope Mike doesn't know this as she is sent on a near-suicide supply run into Pegu with 500 supply on board. She is intercepted by two small IJN DDs and just walks away from them firing as she goes. The CO chooses to head back to Port Blair without delivering (and I didn't force him in the settings.) But there's a chance Mike thinks I've been mining in substantial quantities at Moulmein or Tavoy.

3) KXV sinks PB Kinsyo Maru #2 in the exit route from the Malacca Strait. It's with two xAKs head north. Could be supplies, could be a small base force for one of the bases.

4) Allied bombers hit Pisanuloke in northern Thailand (I think, might still be Burma) and get very light AA. No CAP. Couple of runways holes. B-17s hit Luangprabang. No AA. Think it's empty. One supply hit. Just to test Alfred's theory one light raid of Blenheims return to Chiang Mai and find a big CAP. Three are lost, but that's the price of science.

5) Replacement/Reserve practices fully instituted. The pools already had a mini-spike in Squads. The troop bombing at Pegu is especially bad today, but the units march on. Some tweaks to the hexside tactics are ordered, but won't require major shifts in space by the LCUs. In particular trying to send an HQ across the Pegu/Rangoon border. Not sure it will work as there's no Av. In fact I'm pretty sure it wont' now that I ordered it. I'll look for a tiny AV unit at Pegu to send that way.

6) Soerbaja, naked of fighters now, is crushed again with port attacks. Exeter is in the yards with 90 system; she'll probably die tomorrow. The other two, a DD and CL, were a day away form making way off the pier. They were hit hard and are on fire. I'm not getting a Christmas card from the Cruiser Sailors' Assoc. this year. 25 Bettys are damaged in the raids.

7) PBang is back in the fort-building business. Six points in two days. Today 32 Nicks come to attack two MLs in the harbor. Nine are damaged for no hits. Might be a precursor to a landing.

8) IJA landing at Busuanga in the PI. There are multiple bases still with US flags in the islands.

9) Straggler Chines units without supply out in the countryside cutting roads, unable to get back to Chungking. Two are attacked and retreat. I'd just as soon they died and joined the queue.


Ground combat at 75,46 (near Chungking)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 3507 troops, 38 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 126

Defending force 2459 troops, 25 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 36

Japanese adjusted assault: 111

Allied adjusted defense: 37

Japanese assault odds: 3 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), fatigue(-), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker: shock(+), leaders(+), leaders(-)

Japanese ground losses:
7 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
828 casualties reported
Squads: 19 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 26 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 3 (3 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units retreated 2

Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
66th Infantry Regiment

Defending units:
3rd Chinese Cavalry Corps
39th Group Army

[Bullwinkle58]

August 13, 1942

Sweep, Sweep, Sweep

A slow day with a lot of men marching.

1) Japanese re-supply efforts continue in Burma as the TF seen two days ago has continued up the coast to the height of Tavoy. SS KX takes a shot and misses, but the last three Beauforts at Port Blair come out and put a fish into xAK Celebes Maru.

Some kind of Japanese TF comes into Port Blair where my brave CM FT is unloading the supplies which were intended for Pegu. The incursion is at night and the two forces pass without a shot. By morning the Japanese are gone again. I have one Walrus on Port Blair, hardly complete search coverage. My guess is the IJN force is cruisers and DDs in place to cordon off the coast so supply convoys can run up to Rangoon.

2) At least a dozen Japanese sweeps using over 400 fighters occur all over the map and all are met by open skies. I have stood down much of the Allied air force to try to get something into the pools. The bombers come to the normal places: PBang, Soerbaja, Chungking, Rangoon, Pegu. AA gets some, about 400 troops are lost in Burma. The marching MUTTLETYS are very vulnerable terrain-wise, and have little organic AA.

3) Soerbaja port and yard get 53 unescorted Bettys. Three cruisers are in the yards, some with over 90 System damage. They won't emerge, but yard bombing is better than troops or AF for supply reasons. Two DDs will dash for the light tomorrow, but they're also both damaged. Soerbaja has no aircraft of any kind in residence any longer. The troops are about 80-% supplied behind Level 6 forts. I don't know what is in the bases cutting Soerbaja off from Java; I send a small LCU out to see if one is empty and could be opened for a day or two to flow some supply from Batavia where it is no longer needed. Batavia's garrison is almost all at Palembang now. The last scraps of white restricted are flying out in the next week.

4) Allies 2E in Burma either do not fly or do pinpricks on Moulmein AF for no results.

5) Cats from the western Aleutians recon Para Jima very boldly in two phase, getting a solid D/L. This is more to poke Japan than for any near-term amphib use. The northern map is getting fairly solidly defended this summer. Winter will see big resupply and further fortification. If there is no Japanese reaction I see a move on the Kuriles by summer 1943.

6) Japanese TFs are seen between Eniwetok and Wake, now for a couple of days. Might be a screen against supply runs to E. IF it's a serious move on Wake that base is more fortified than E. and has attack planes plus three solid fighter squadrons. The USMC Buffalos were withdrawn today to make AF space and reduce stacking. I think they're the last of that model on the board.

7) Lots of boring repair, re-positioning, pilot work etc. done today. Waiting on MUTTLEY. Many engineer units arrived today as well, plus two IDs in CONUS. I think they're restricted, but will check.

[Bullwinkle58]

August 14, 1942

Dud, Dud, Dud

1) Five Allied subs are on patrol in shallow water between Tavoy and Rangoon. Mutually supporting zones. Several more are in deep water a bit farther off-shore. Hard DLs are in hand on supply TFs running up the coast for Moulmein and Rangoon. And the torpedoes just keep bouncing. Also, just south of Honshu.

2) Massive troop bombing of the MUTTLEYs. About 800 lost. The code routed the stack north up the road before SW into the rally hex. As far as I can tell the hexside directly to the rally hex is open; two late-ordered LCUs in the Pegu hex are in fact heading to cross it. And extra week of bombing at 800 per day? Wonderful. Love this game sometimes.

3) Cruisers and DDs bombard Rangoon stack again. 29 casualties. Maybe the minefield (since swept) made them hang around.

4) Eniwetok gets light bombing and a lot of recon activity over Wake.

5) Soerbaja gets 60 bombers and one more bomb is planted on CL Concord and CA Exeter. The ships in port continue to hang in there. The LCU probes of the sealing bases are about half-way to their targets. The LCUs at Soerbaja soak up all the supply generated by refineries and LI and are fine. He can bomb until the cows come home and it won't matter. If he wants the base he has to take it. I continue to not understand Japan's land strategy as time rolls on toward the autumn.

The same thing is seen at Chungking. Today, lots of AF bombing. The base made 400 organic, untouchable supply. All went into the LCUs. They're fat, happy. Morale high, fatigue at 2. AA is operating. He lost probably five bombers to ops damage based on AA damage reports. It didn't dent the defense a whit.

6) Twenty B-17s raid Truk from Rabaul. Rabaul is less than a week away form Level 6, and the Air HQ the B-17s belong to is now in residence. They are set on Port alone despite carriers seen by recon. On the next raid I'll probably go to Naval/Port as naval bombing skill is in the 50s at least for most pilots now, and I think Japan has learned to not leave a lot of ships disbanded at Truk. The CAP is heavy, composed mostly of Hiryu and Shokaku Zeros. They're in a base hex and thus at 50%. Per animation about 4-5 are destroyed. Combat report is lighter. One DD is hit by a bomb. Altitude was higher, but radar is present and the AA still did damage. Have to go higher.

Morning Air attack on Truk , at 112,108

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 39 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 45

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 20

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 1 destroyed, 13 damaged
B-17E Fortress: 1 destroyed by flak

Japanese Ships
DD Hatsuharu, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 12000 feet *
Port Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb
2 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 12000 feet *
Port Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb
5 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 12000 feet *
Port Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb
2 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 12000 feet *
Port Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 12000 feet *
Port Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb

7) The last supply run into Soerbaja is found and sunk by land-based Kates. N.B. this was a 1-ship TF. They are perfectly capable of being found and sunk.

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Soerabaja at 56,104

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 10 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
B5N2 Kate x 3

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
xAK Nora Moller, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage

[Bullwinkle58]

August 15, 1942

Short and Sweet

Virtually nothing happened today, it's Sunday NFL Day, and I have two turns in the box. So, in the interest of completeness and my unblemished AAR record, here is today's news.

NightBombingRangoonFinds15ZerosOnCAP. NoDamage.

BadWeatherInBurmaGroundsOtherStrikes. ExceptB17sAtMoulmein. TwoPlanesOnGroundDestroyed.

MUTTLEYsBombedLess. 300Casualties. MarchOn.

AlliedSubsHitNothing.

WakeReconnedByMavis. SomethingIsUp.

SoerbajaSweptNotBombed.

LastSupplyRunToSoerbajaGotIn11,000Supply.

MajorBuilding:

Dutch Harbor expands port to size 6
Palmyra expands port to size 3
Port Stanley expands airfield to size 6
Port Blair expands fortifications to size 5
Prince Rupert expands port to size 6

ThatIsAll.

/BT

[JocMeister]

Short and to the point! [:D]