Is SSM probability of hit really this bad?

[Alex170g]

Maybe I’m used to other naval sims (harpoon, fleet command, Arctic circle), but in this scenario most Surface to Surface Missiles miss their targets.

I know that ECM may be a large part of it, but all Russian SSM are fired against Norway (and Norway’s ships do not have their radars on) usually only one ship is sunk, sometimes none, and Russian fires their missiles in one salvo.

In the other side, Norway fires all their Surface to Surface Missiles against Both Improved Steregushchy [Project 2038.5], in 1 to 6 missiles salvoes, always only one or none Russian ship is sunk, (only once both ships where sunk of about 5 tries.)

I know that ESSM from Norway’s Aegis do their job very well, as Improved Steregushchy [Project 2038.5] SAMs, but what about Norway’s PTGs, or when SAMs are gone out, Only size and ECM works, and it works very well, as most SSM miss their targets, even a full six missiles salvo is totally wasted, their accuracy is totally 00%.


Attached the scenario, just let it go.
34x NSM = sunk 1 or 0 [Pr.2038.5, Improved Steregushchy]
16x SS-N-26 Sapless [P-800 Onyx] = sunk 1 or 0 P 960 Skjold
12x SS-N-9 Siren [P-120 Malakhit] = 0 ship sunk..[even with monolit radar on.]


I have the same feeling in Green Canary scenario, usually a single Spanish f-18 needs to fire all their sparrows and sidewinders to shot down a single morocco Mirage, (the last sidewinders are fired in pairs).

[Alex170g]

here is the scenario

[Figeac]

I think that all air-to-air missiles are fired in pairs, or at least, aircrafts and other launching platforms always try to have 2 missiles going for the same target. That's reasonable and is in accordance with most modern AAW doctrines, I think. The problem is that when the first missile misses his target, the aircrafts/launching platforms immediately fires a second one, even if there is another already on the way. And if this one hits the target, the just launched missile will be lost...

Maybe they should wait for the first pair to resolve, not just the first one, before launching any other missile.

And yes, missiles DO miss a lot they targets in Command.

[jomni]

Yup. The Air Defense Missiles easily defeat those Surface missles. But I'm not complaining because it saves my ships.

[Wiz33]

I have not loaded the scenario to see but are they getting intercepted by SAMs and AAMs or were they decoyed away from target? SAMs and AAMs have a pretty good chance to hit a large non-maneuvering target as long as it does not have a high crossing rate (some newer systems also works well against crossing target).

[jomni]

ORIGINAL: Wiz33

I have not loaded the scenario to see but are they getting intercepted by SAMs and AAMs or were they decoyed away from target? SAMs and AAMs have a pretty good chance to hit a large non-maneuvering target as long as it does not have a high crossing rate.

Now that you've mentioned it, may these are pretty small and fast boats.

[Alex170g]

ORIGINAL:
I have not loaded the scenario to see but are they getting intercepted by SAMs and AAMs or were they decoyed away from target?

The aegis and Improved Steregushchy have SAMs which work quite well..The PTGs only ECM and small size ...No airplanes...There is a point where both Improved Steregushchy run out of SAM missiles, and still more NSM Surface to Surface Missiles inbound, which also miss.

In other words; 20 SSM against Norway's four PTGs and, in the best case, only one hit (misteriously always the same PTG, the one that is closer to the Aegis). 8 SSM versus the aegis, and all shoot down by Evolved Sea Sparrows.

By the way, the aegis is behind the lat/lon black box.

[ComDev]

Okay I'm bumping this up on my to-do list, thanks guys [8D]

[Wiz33]

OK. I may see why this is happening. I'm looking thru the database. I don't see any form of ECCM rating for missiles (unless they are not show in the database viewer). Without that. The current missile combat resolution is totally flawed. Without taking into the ECCM rating of a missile (the missile onboard logic for filtering countermeasures). The game may have reduced the pk% of any missile by too much when faced with countermeasures. Chaff, flares and jammer might have a decent chance of spoofing older missile but probably will be a lot less effective against modern/near future missiles. Without some form of ECCM rating for the missile. A SS-N-22 will suffer the same pk% penalty as a 40+ years old SS-N-2 which is just not right.

[Dimitris]

Guys, read the message log. It will tell you exactly why a missile hits or misses. There is no black magic involved [:)]

[Dimitris]

ORIGINAL: Wiz33
OK. I may see why this is happening. I'm looking thru the database. I don't see any form of ECCM rating for missiles (unless they are not show in the database viewer). Without that. The current missile combat resolution is totally flawed. Without taking into the ECCM rating of a missile (the missile onboard logic for filtering countermeasures). The game may have reduced the pk% of any missile by too much when faced with countermeasures. Chaff, flares and jammer might have a decent chance of spoofing older missile but probably will be a lot less effective against modern/near future missiles. Without some form of ECCM rating for the missile. A SS-N-22 will suffer the same pk% penalty as a 40+ years old SS-N-2 which is just not right.

Not quite true; In fact we model very carefully the tech generations of different weapons and seekers and the effect this has on endgame calculations. A given DECM will be much more effective against an SS-N-2 than an SS-N-22. If you have seen them being equally defeated by a countermeasure please show us the log. Thanks!

[ComDev]

Would suggest you try the Latakia scenario. The SS-N-2s are quite useless against chaff and jammer-equipped attack boats. Then swap the SS-N-2 for something more modern, and see what happens then [8D]

[ExMachina]

Just d/l-ed the save game and let it run.

The first SSMs of each salvo destroyed the small Norwegian boats and NONE of the SSNs got through the ESSM defensive ring. The surface group needs to turn its radar on to see incoming vampires, then these were effectively defeated by Russian SAMs...

So at least for me, there were no obvious problems.

[ExMachina]

Ok...maybe there is a problem here...

I've been running it several times and under 1 sec time compression (for the attack resolutions) everything looks normal (ie, the little boats die and the Russian SSMs hit with good reliability).

However, when I up the time compression for the scenario (I tried both 1 minute and 5 minutes)--all the Norwegian boats somehow evade all the Russian SSMs.

Annoyingly, I cannot figure out how to save the full message log (the older entries keep disappearing) so I cannot see how each of the attacks was resolved.

So it LOOKS like attacks are resolved differently at different time compression. Can anyone else confirm this?

[ExMachina]

FWIW, I think I have now been able to reproduce this behavior in a new scenario. Playing First Contact 2016 as Norway, whenever Russian SSMs got "close", I simply changed time compression to 5 minutes and all my units survived.

But again, because I cannot figure out how to keep the message log from auto-clearing, I have no idea what actually happened.

[mattpenfold]

If you have the message log displaying in a separate window you can just highlight the test and copy it. You can then paste it into notepad or similar.

[ExMachina]

Right. You can also export the log to a txt file. The problem is that the log auto clears every now and then (can't figure out the trigger for clearing).

ORIGINAL: mattpenfold

If you have the message log displaying in a separate window you can just highlight the test and copy it. You can then paste it into notepad or similar.

[mattpenfold]

Well rather than wait until the end, could you not save the log periodically ? I think there is also an option to clear the log, so you could pause the game, save the log and then clear it, before resuming.

[mattpenfold]

Also, have you looked at what is recorded in the logfile you will find in the logs directory ?

[ExMachina]

Ah! Great! (so why is there even an option to export the log to a text file?--seems like it's all here?)

Thanks [:)]

ORIGINAL: mattpenfold

Also, have you looked at what is recorded in the logfile you will find in the logs directory ?