Weather modelling

[navwarcol]

Quick 2 part question guys...
A)- Other than for aircraft, is weather a factor (sighting, sea state, annoyed wet sailors [:D]
A2- It seems that inputting weather inputs a global weather so that the entire planet is either raining or clear, etc. based upon what you enter. Is there any thought of at some point having a dynamic weather with fronts that move, for the longer scenarios (IF weather plays a factor, anyway ..would be dumb to waste the time on it if it does not)?

Thanks, and really cannot give enough kudos for this work!
~Ron

[CaptCarnage]

Wow - modeling the global weather system is something meteorologists would looooove as well... model a little thunderstorm in Mumbai, a bright ckear day in Osaka, little rainfall in Rotterdam... and the Gulfstream and El Nino to tie it all together... With longer scenarios we could see the effect of melting ice caps on the weather system.., that would be a real moneymaker

[navwarcol]

LOL Skyhigh... I asked because Harpoon moves fronts though I am not a really big fan of how it does it, and also it is just in the 'battleset theater', not the entire globe..
Weather plays a large effect in reality on naval and air (and ground) operations... less so in the current world, but a lot more in the time frame of many of the older scenarios, and including even into the Falklands fight of the 1980s, so probably could do without the sarcasm if it was meant as such
Weather effects of a dynamic nature could also affect satellite coverage, reconnaissance, etc even into today's world... your SAG is in range but must wait some time until the storm clears, etc. It is not the "global" weather I am curious about, but rather, if the front can move, so that today it is sunny, tomorrow it is cloudy. The global issue is only because looking at it, I am not sure if there ever will be a sunny day, if I set the scenario as rain, and it lasts 7 days...since the entire planet then shows rain.

[CaptCarnage]

Yeah just joking - haven't been doing much with weather but the question of its effects on ops is a good one, would like to know as well.

[jomni]

In the civilian flight sim world, we have this thing called METAR feeds where we can get real time weather info from stations around the world. Nothing really to model except for interpolation of areas in between. Would be nice if CMANO can read METAR feeds.

But this won't be historical. Your weather is what we have now so there may be seasonal mismatch.

Also accelerated time results into no forward evolution of the weather.

Even then, loading real time weather may be an interesting feature.

[navwarcol]

I am setting up a scenario off of East Africa, and want the Pirate side to have some early advantages by bad weather holding down the chances of being instantly found (which is why I wondered if weather matters in that... irl it can affect surface search radar, for example) and if it does, I do not want the effect to be for the duration of the scenario, just long enough for the pirate side to get in the first 'punch' (or two [;)] )... which is why I am wondering if the front will move, if I set to rain.. or if it will stay rainy all 7 days, with bad sea state. Also wondering how much the seastate and weather will affect the pirate vessels as well, although I can see so far that it does not seem to.

[jomni]

ORIGINAL: navwarcol

I am setting up a scenario off of East Africa, and want the Pirate side to have some early advantages by bad weather holding down the chances of being instantly found (which is why I wondered if weather matters in that... irl it can affect surface search radar, for example) and if it does, I do not want the effect to be for the duration of the scenario, just long enough for the pirate side to get in the first 'punch' (or two [;)] )... which is why I am wondering if the front will move, if I set to rain.. or if it will stay rainy all 7 days, with bad sea state. Also wondering how much the seastate and weather will affect the pirate vessels as well, although I can see so far that it does not seem to.

Why not use events to teleport to pirate to simulate slipping through radar and visual detection?

[navwarcol]

THAT... is actually a hell of an idea, Jomni [:)] I am not used to this event editor thing, but you are right.. it opens up a lot of doors potentially...

[goodwoodrw]

Weather perhaps could be changed via the events editor.

[Dimitris]

ORIGINAL: navwarcol
Quick 2 part question guys...
A)- Other than for aircraft, is weather a factor (sighting, sea state, annoyed wet sailors [:D]

Yes, it affects most sensors (particularly visual & IR but also radar at certain frequencies).

A2- It seems that inputting weather inputs a global weather so that the entire planet is either raining or clear, etc. based upon what you enter. Is there any thought of at some point having a dynamic weather with fronts that move, for the longer scenarios (IF weather plays a factor, anyway ..would be dumb to waste the time on it if it does not)?

Yes, local weather fronts are on our punch stack.

[Dimitris]

ORIGINAL: navwarcol
LOL Skyhigh... I asked because Harpoon moves fronts though I am not a really big fan of how it does it, and also it is just in the 'battleset theater', not the entire globe..
Weather plays a large effect in reality on naval and air (and ground) operations... less so in the current world, but a lot more in the time frame of many of the older scenarios, and including even into the Falklands fight of the 1980s, so probably could do without the sarcasm if it was meant as such
Weather effects of a dynamic nature could also affect satellite coverage, reconnaissance, etc even into today's world... your SAG is in range but must wait some time until the storm clears, etc. It is not the "global" weather I am curious about, but rather, if the front can move, so that today it is sunny, tomorrow it is cloudy. The global issue is only because looking at it, I am not sure if there ever will be a sunny day, if I set the scenario as rain, and it lasts 7 days...since the entire planet then shows rain.

H2/3 had an excellent "random weather generator" with believable variable weather fronts. The problem was that the different weather conditions didn't really affect sensors/weapons much (e.g. you could drop an LGB in the middle of a tropical storm no problem).

Our weather model ATM is simpler in terms of generation/variability but its effects actually impact you. (And wait till you see what happens when we activate air-ops being limited by night & bad weather....)

[Krabb]

Does weather affect underwater acoustics as well, or just surface and above?

[Dimitris]

It affects sonar performance in the surface duct (e.g. shallow sub vs ship or shallow sub vs shallow sub). Once you go below below shallow the weather does not affect you.

EDIT: The local temperature, however, does affect the strength of the thermal layer.

[MikeGER]

ORIGINAL: jomni

In the civilian flight sim world, we have this thing called METAR feeds where we can get real time weather info from stations around the world. Nothing really to model except for interpolation of areas in between. Would be nice if CMANO can read METAR feeds.

there should be a set of meteorologic science data archives out there for apply to get access for free, these should harbor all those datasets for a given day/week in the past.

I guess an external utility/program will have to be written first to extract those databases (which surly have different data-set formats and such cause of the different meteo archives to be polled) and transform and crunch all those raw-data into an external "CMANO weather file"-database to be slowly build up, located maybe at WarfareSim.
The utility would also do all the interpolation-calcs of the raw-data to generate the underlying 'weather-grid' CMANO works with inside its blackbox.

A scenario creator would access this database, with maybe FTP or an website interface, and download a historic planetwide 'CMANO-weather file' for a given day of choice, of course offline from running CMANO ... and CMANO will have an import-'weather-file'-feature just like the map-overlays now...

This would generate fixed historic! weather for the simulation.
And the simmer, who would like to have a different non-historic weather, just import the weather-file for a 'wrong'-date (like a different year, or whatever suits their plans to simulate in his scenario)

In a next step CMANO would load 'weather-files' from followup days too, and does an interpolation based on time pased between the two daily datasets ... and so a first-approximation dynamic historic weather would be the result![8D]
(...all without local solving Navir-Stokes-equitation, radiation thermodynamic, atmosphere-chemisty,'n such[;)] )

[CaptCarnage]

Now that is a wonderful concept!

[Krabb]

ORIGINAL: Sunburn

It affects sonar performance in the surface duct (e.g. shallow sub vs ship or shallow sub vs shallow sub). Once you go below below shallow the weather does not affect you.

EDIT: The local temperature, however, does affect the strength of the thermal layer.

What about ambient noise? It affects all depths as far as I understand.

P.S. Would you please answer my questions in the following thread: fb.asp?m=3431841.

[MikeGER]

ORIGINAL: Skyhigh

Now that is a wonderful concept!

i digged a little around in the meantime [;)]
and a lot of work seams already were done with your/our tax dollars at work at NOAA, et alii

http://rda.ucar.edu/datasets/ds131.1/

20th Century Reanalysis

Using a state-of-the-art data assimilation system and surface pressure observations, the Twentieth Century Reanalysis Project is generating a six-hourly, four-dimensional global atmospheric dataset spanning 1871 to 2011 to place current atmospheric circulation patterns into a historical perspective.


Temporal Range: 1869-11-01 00:00 +0000 to 2011-12-31 21:00 +0000 (Entire dataset)
Updates: Irregularly

Variables:
Air Temperature
Albedo
Cloud Amount/Frequency
Cloud Base Pressure
Cloud Liquid Water/Ice
Cloud Top Pressure
Convection
Evaporation
Evapotranspiration
Geopotential Height
Gravity Wave
Heat Flux
Humidity
Ice Depth/Thickness
Ice Extent Land Cover
Longwave Radiation
Maximum/Minimum Temperature
Planetary Boundary Layer Height
Potential Temperature
Precipitable Water
Precipitation Rate
Runoff
Sea Level Pressure
Sea Surface Temperature
Shortwave Radiation
Skin Temperature
Snow Cover
Snow Depth
Snow Water Equivalent
Soil Moisture/Water Content
Surface Air Temperature
Surface Pressure
Surface Roughness
Surface Winds Tropopause
Tropospheric Ozone
Upper Level Winds
Vegetation Cover
Vegetation Species
Vertical Wind Motion

GRIB parameter table: HTML | XML
Vertical Levels: See the detailed metadata for level information
Data Types: Grid

Spatial Coverage: Longitude Range: Westernmost=180W Easternmost=180E
Latitude Range: Southernmost=90S Northernmost=90N

...so that are not the real measuremnets but NOAA did already all the interpolations and modelling all those wonderfull parameters for us to use in our scenarios[:)]

[MikeGER]

for example here the 2m airtemperature for the Vietnam 1967 DownTown scenario [:D]



you can generate your plots here: http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/psd/data/compo ... ily_20thc/
...and move the weather-sliders in CMANO (based on what you think is the best representation of the data)

[MikeGER]

and here the precipitaion rate



...looks like there was kind of fair weather in the Area of Operation at 1.12.1967

[smudge56]

Is the grounding of aircraft simulated because of bad weather?