sell me on the sequel!

[thebigJA]

As someone of... limited finances, I need help justifying purchasing this game to myself.

I have the first Civil War game, and after some effort in figuring out its complexities, I've gotten a lot of fun out of it. The thing is, well, I still have it. I could just keep playing the older game.

This new game seems, on the surface, awfully similar. I'm sure I'd enjoy it, but what has it got to offer that the first game doesn't?

If I was flush right now, I'd buy the new just to support the developers, if nothing else. Unfortunately I'm not, so I have to pick and choose my purchases. If it's more or less the same game with a face lift, I'm afraid I can't justify buying it.

Please tell me it's worth it and why, I want to buy!

[oldspec4]

Same question for me.

I played the original game for beaucoup hours since release; and have always been impressed by AGEOD support.

What are the differences in actual gameplay?

[comsolut]

Well, the artwork is fantastic.

It feels like there is a real constraint on raising troops, much more agonizing over recruiting. Where and limited in quantity. I think this is going to force players to really think hard about their strategy. In CW1 it felt like you could have it all. Not like that in CWII right now.

The map is big which allows for additional smaller area of operations.

The battle results screen has a lot of information (although I have not figured out what it all means). But does show which units took losses and dealt losses in a more informative way.

Have not used the Battle cards yet, but think that will be a nice addition.

The decisions have potential but need some work (imho).

More choices in building infrastructure, and infrastructure shown on map.

Kentucky stays neutral longer and that creates a new and interesting dynamic to deal with.

Not an expert with Ageod's Civil War I, but played a fair bit, and the above are some of my early impressions.

[oldspec4]

Thanks for the info...seems to be enough new here to purchase after the first patch.

[thebigJA]

ORIGINAL: oldspec4

Thanks for the info...seems to be enough new here to purchase after the first patch.

Really?
Idk, that didn't sound like much more than minor refinements and a prettier map (which I'd noticed on my own), along with a couple "I don't know"s.

[CaptBeefheart]

I'm in the same boat as you chaps. My plan is to wait for a patch or two and read what AARs come out before buying it. I no longer feel the need to buy a game right away after being burned by Paradox.

Cheers,
CC

[Ace1_slith]

The map expanding to the west is minor but welcome improvement. Now you can actually try to invade Colorado as CSA and try to capture its gold mines:)
Also no more forced mobilization in 61 and 62 bring the feel of gradual increase in the conflict.
Industry is much more described now, and you actually have to industrialize, as was the case in history.
There are lot of minor things that were changed. Personally, I didn't want it to step too much away from acw1, since it was a good game and a good staring platform in the first place.

Basically, it all comes down to what you want from the game. If you can tell me what do you whant, I could tell you if it has been done[:)]

[Toro12]

I'm finding the expansion West really interesting (and, as a commander, frustrating!). I never built so many units west of the Mississippi before (CW1, that is). The Confederacy has started running wild out there, and I've had to create a couple extra divisions to check them in Kansas and beyond. This is one aspect that I really like in the new game.

[thebigJA]

ORIGINAL: Ace1

Basically, it all comes down to what you want from the game. If you can tell me what do you whant, I could tell you if it has been done[:)]

Alright. Here's one thing that would sell me, I think, even though it's not some major overhaul. Even though I got pretty good at the first game, It always seemed like there was a bit of a wall between me and what was going on. That is to say, the information wasn't always imparted to me clearly in such a way that I always felt like I knew exactly what was happening and (more importantly) why.

It wasn't as bad as some games (War in the Pacific AE, I'm lookin' at you!), but it wasn't great. I guess I'm asking if it's easier to use, or clearer to comprehend, while most emphatically *not* asking that it be simplified. in any way. UI improvements, things of that nature. The best decisions are informed decisions.

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: cassmj

I'm finding the expansion West really interesting (and, as a commander, frustrating!). I never built so many units west of the Mississippi before (CW1, that is). The Confederacy has started running wild out there, and I've had to create a couple extra divisions to check them in Kansas and beyond. This is one aspect that I really like in the new game.

I liked ACW, so I'll probably get this game. But I'm not sure this is a plus.

I can't foresee how the Confederacy could stay that active very far west of Missouri. There were not alot of Confederate sympathizers out there in Colorado, for example, which was economically tied to the Union. And I can't see how the Rebs would draw any supply out there.

The way the New Mexico invasion ended was about all you need to know regarding the feasibility of Confederate supplies beyond the farm country in Missouri and Texas

[Toro12]

They are mostly raiders, but there are plenty of them. To respond to them requires forces and garrisons. In CW1, a few cavalry units sufficed, but then we were only seeing the eastern edge of Kansas, Indian Territory, and Texas. I could let them run rampant, I suppose, but there are valuable assets in the West (gold mines, as someone noted, and strategic cities worth $$ each turn).

I'm not saying there are armies out there, nor am I creating another army besides Western Command. But, there was activity out West, and it does draw some attention/reaction.

[Ace1_slith]

ORIGINAL: thebigJ_A

Alright. Here's one thing that would sell me, I think, even though it's not some major overhaul. Even though I got pretty good at the first game, It always seemed like there was a bit of a wall between me and what was going on. That is to say, the information wasn't always imparted to me clearly in such a way that I always felt like I knew exactly what was happening and (more importantly) why .
I guess I'm asking if it's easier to use, or clearer to comprehend, while most emphatically *not* asking that it be simplified. in any way. UI improvements, things of that nature. The best decisions are informed decisions.

Well, the UI has had a complete overhaul. The UI has fewer icons on the main interface than ACW1. It brings cleaner look to main screen which is less cluttered with icons than before, but it also means you have to click one time more to open "flying" toolbars to click on a specific special order icon or posture. It comes down to your preference what do you expect from UI. Many people want the cleaner screen while others want more icons on the screen for easier access. The new ledgers are cleaner and easier to use, although older ones may have been prettier (my preference, but others may have different opinions). Good UI improvement are round pop up icons on the right of your screen informing you of important events that happened in the last turn. The message panel can now be minimized providing greater map area.

Overall, I think this game is an advancement over its predecessor, and worth the investment, but that's just my opinion.

I suggest you read a couple of AAAR's and see if you like the new ledgers, new stack and special orders icons. There is an excellent article on wargamer with lots of screenshots. I suggest you visit it too.

You said you were short on informations in ACW1. Could you specify on what lack of information are you referring?

[bgt0990]

I hate to be the nay sayer. But if I was on limited funds I would not recommend the game. The eye candy maps and UI upgrade haven't really enhanced the game play from the original. It is more like an upgrade that costs full price. Don't get me wrong I am sure plenty of work went into producing this and I am not trying to belittle the fine products that AGEOD produces, but if I owned ACW already I don't think I would buy it, it is essentially the same game with a new look.

[Boomer78]

BGT,
I think it's a matter of the tried-and-true method. When a model works, there's the temptation to tinker with it. Tinker too much and your loyal fan base gets upset that you're trying to reinvent the wheel. Tinker too little, and people complain that you're just doing the same old thing over and over again.

I think ACW 1 was a great game. It obviously sold pretty well, and AGEOD just took what worked and added onto it. Is there a lot more new stuff to do? Not really. Should there have been a few more scenarios released with the game? Yeah. Is the new graphic overhaul and UI enough of a reason to buy it? I think so. I bought it and have been enjoying it.

To BigJ,
I'd recommend it. You're probably going to have to wait a while for another grand strategy civil war game, and AGEOD certainly sticks with updating its games with patches and DLC, so it's not like it will be a cold dish once its served. Of course, you could always wait to see if there's a Christmas sale on it. [;)]

[bgt0990]

Thanks Boomer I was afraid I was going to get blasted. I bought the game and am enjoying it also but the fellows question was about value for his very limited buck.

[ird]

I think you two are on the right track. I've got both games. Is the second better than the first? Yes most definitely... but is there enough to warrant someone on limited funds upgrading? Probably not. I would maybe hang on for a few months at least. The game gets better with each patch

[Dorb]

Limited resources for wargaming... either board or PC, get another hobby.- Lol. Narrow down to what you really, really, really love. If you are into the American Civil War, then it's a must buy. If like me, and love many a war and time periods, then do as I... look for any excuse to get another game. (every holiday - no matter how stupid, every family event with the in-laws,etc...) Just find away!

[Blind Sniper]

Don't get me wrong I am sure plenty of work went into producing this and I am not trying to belittle the fine products that AGEOD produces, but if I owned ACW already I don't think I would buy it, it is essentially the same game with a new look.

Same here, I really liked ACW and I would have pay the restyle version but what I thought was easy/no good is still there, just the combat system has been improved but is not enough to justify the buy (IMHO).

We will see with the future patches...[:)]