"You are all Green Alike": Q-Ball (CSA) v Michael T (USA)

[Q-Ball]

“You are green, it is true, but they are green also. You are all green alike.”
--Abraham Lincoln, to Irwin McDowell, 1861

On that principal, I am starting a PBEM vs. an esteemed opponent, Michael T. Michael is new to this game as well, however Michael was very active in War in the East, a game I played, and was known as one of the top players over there, with lots of innovative tactics. I expect that once he is up to speed on the engine, he'll be very strong.

I am playing CSA, he is USA. We are playing under the following rules:

1. RAIDING: Limitations to raiding, similar to Jim Burns's AAR. Single Cav Regts may only raid in border states, and the West. Outside of border states, raiders must either a) have a named leader heading the stack, or b) have at least one friendly city in that state. This puts a little bit a lid on hordes of cavalry all over the place.
2. FLEXIBILITY: We'll evaluate more rules or items if something does not feel right.

Overall, gentlemanly play as we both learn.

Off we go....

Late May, 1861:

First few turns not a ton happens as you know, but we had our first battle in Late May, at Harper's Ferry. More on that.

INITIAL MOVES:
Sumter fell of course, and we railed the SC troops to VA. We occupied Norfolk, and pushed the Winchester Militia forward to an empty Harpers Ferry. Michael, however, countered with the Washington Bde, led by Keyes, who easily pushed my militia out and re-took Harpers Ferry.

We build a MO Militia unit at Rolla, and they will torch the depot at Rolla to prevent its use by the Union

BUILDS:
Both sides issued War Bonds. We declared an embargo, but unfortunately foreign intervention went negative; it is now at minus 30. Not much chance of help from that area....

We build some infantry and Brigs (blockade runners). We also build 4 Ranger units, and hope to cause some havoc in the far west into Colorado and Kansas.

SCREEN:
Not a lot so far, so attaching a screen of our settings

COMMENTS:
Let us know any feedback or comments!

[USSLockwood]

Looking forward to the AAR! Thanks Q-Ball.

[Michael T]

Here are our game options.

[Q-Ball]

Late June, 1861

Things are finally on the move for both of us, as both units and production choices unfreeze. Here we go!

EAST: Washington Bde smacks around the Winchester Militia, then withdraws to Harpers Ferry. We are moving Johnston's Army of the Shenandoah toward Harpers, where at the moment there are only about 3000 Federals under Milroy, without any trenches.

WESTERN:
With Kentucky neutral, nothing so far. I am reinforcing Island No 10 and Ft. Donelson with a brigade apiece. I am concentrating our River "Fleet" at Memphis for now. Cav units are moving into eastern Missouri.

We started construction of a Redoubt in Hopefield, across the Mississippi River from Memphis. Why here? Well, my thinking is:
1. It's a swamp, easier to defend
2. It's adjacent to Madison, AR, where there is a depot to aid in supplies
3. It's on a rail line; I am going to build and move Coastal Artillery into this Redoubt
4. Can be supported from Memphis

Seems like the best spot before the junction with the Arkansas River.

MISSOURI:
We burned the Depot at Rolla; unless I think I'm going to take St. Louis, it does more good for the Union than for me. Curiously, Michael has yet to move on Jefferson City.

Sterling Price's MSG is slowly moving toward Springfield. We are going to concentrate there and make some noise. Cavalry, of course, is moving deeper into Missouri.

FAR WEST:
I built 4 Ranger units, and they took 4 stockades this turn in Southern Colorado. Not sure what impact this really has, but we're going to burn the stockades; maybe it will impeded Union supplies. And force Michael to build forces in Colorado.

ECONOMY and BUILDS:
We are building 5 Armories in VA and SC. I am building 5 Brigs for blockade running.

[USSLockwood]

Morning Q-Ball. Could you give us an idea of your general strategy? Do you plan to
remain on the defensive or opt for a more agressive stance? I'm assuming Mr. T will
not be visiting this forum so that your plans will remain confidential.

[Blind Sniper]

House Rules
I don't know with CWII but in the previous title there was a HR generally accepted, no partial or full mobilization until 1862.

I am reinforcing Island No 10 and Ft. Donelson with a brigade apiece

I did send some artillery too, coastal is possible.

Then always keep a reserve against amphibious assault in the south, given the game mechanics and time frame you cannot avoid a bridgehead, in the first months is unlikely it happens but think ahead.

About Brigs I buildt several too, they increase WS and money.

Good luck QBall [:)]

[Q-Ball]

Thanks doctor and Blind Sniper for comments....a couple replies in here

Late July, 1861

EASTERN THEATER:
See picture below; several forces are on the move!

In the valley, Joe Johnston's men beat Milroy's boys at Harpers Ferry. We should easily take it next turn, and we have a Cav unit blocking the B&O to the West. Good news here. We also sent a brigade from the valley to Manassas.

Further east though, a quandary. See the map; I could easily move from Manassas to Falmouth, but I don't want to give the Union 10 NM by abandoning Manassas. So, half measures...hope it works.

The risk is that I split my forces, but I am bringing a lot of reinforcements to Manassas from W Va.

Speaking of West Virginia, I pulled Floyd's command immediately from W Va, and they are now poised to reinforce Richmond next turn. I think it was the right move, W Va is a trap for Rebs, and getting them to my rail line means my guys are fighting sooner than his guys stuck in W Va. What do others do with the W Va Rebs?

WESTERN THEATER:
BTW, I am naming theaters by Civil War conventions; TN/AL/MS are "West", even though today we would consider that part of the "East".

KY is still neutral; interesting thing though is that Nathanial Lyon appeared near Cairo! He landed at New Madrid and took it.

We also had a Naval Battle off Island 10 from that move; it was inconclusive, though we did sink a Union Gunboat. It was gunboat v gunboat, probably last time that will happen this war.

MISSOURI:

With Lyon down in New Madrid, this opens some possibilities in Missouri.

Michael must be abandoning Central MO. After I torched the depot at Rolla, he must be thinking that I don't intend to advance. But we're going ahead.

McCulloch is approaching with Cav, and a reinforced Price should be able to re-take Jefferson City. I don't know if I can take St. Louis, but we're going to put some heat on the town. He can't lose it, and I already have troops in Mizzou, so why not?

FAR WEST:

We're torching stockades in Colorado, and next turn should have a ranger in Colorado City, at the gold mines. I don't think I can take it, but at least we'll force some builds. He already built a mounted volunteer brigade (I like those units, BTW)

ECONOMY:

We sold bonds, and selected no money for recruits. We lack War Supplies. I have built 2 brigs with 2 more on the way, and our blockade running brought 11 WS this turn. Need more of that!

Builds right now focusing on more infantry

[Blind Sniper]

We sold bonds, and selected no money for recruits. We lack War Supplies. I have built 2 brigs with 2 more on the way, and our blockade running brought 11 WS this turn. Need more of that!

At the moment you are luck in WS but later in the game you will have plenty of anything but conscripts (I think is too easy running CSA economy and almost no problem with USA one).
Therefore for the next draft I would pay money to increse the cannon fodder...

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: Blind Sniper
At the moment you are luck in WS but later in the game you will have plenty of anything but conscripts (I think is too easy running CSA economy and almost no problem with USA one).
Therefore for the next draft I would pay money to increse the cannon fodder...

I probably will; at the moment, I have cash and recruits, no War Supply. So, builds right now are fairly infantry heavy.

Late August, 1861:

EASTERN:
The main action is still in Virginia; I didn't post a map because I wanted to post something else, but it's becoming a big mess for the most part.

Johnston's Army lost Winchester, and is withdrawing toward Strasburg. This is not a good thing. McDowell is leading the Army of N VA down the valley, and I don't have the strength to stop them. So that part is not good.

However, I think Michael is leaving his Washington defenses dangerously thin. I destroyed a militia unit at Falmouth, and we are concentrating 40,000 troops at Manassas and Leesburg. If I can cut the rail to Wash DC, I can force him to pull out of the valley in a panic.

I also am observing a build-up in West VA. I think he is going to launch an overland campaign into the valley from there. I think it's going to rain/snow before he gets too far, and he'll need depots for supplies. We'll see.

I did screw one part up; I accidently sent units past Ft. Monroe via river. OOOPS! Guess what happens when you do that? 2 dead Artillery units, that's what. OUCH!

WESTERN:

KY is still neutral. Michael is advancing down the West bank of the Mississippi. Very interesting move; I can't fight him out of the swamps, but I can cut that very tenuous supply. He needs to clear Island 10 before he can supply from the river.

Maybe he is going to build up down there, then run Ironclads past, and cross over above Memphis? Maybe....

MISSOURI:

I think he's going to have to reinforce here. We re-occupied Jefferson City, convening the Missouri Legislature (and collecting recruits/money). THere aren't enough Yanks in the state right now, and he's going to have to pull back to St. Louis. He needs more guys here, methinks.

FAR WEST:

Rangers are pillaging Golden City; what happens to the Gold Mine production when you do that? They are digging in, and I think some CO Mounted Volunteers are about to attack. We will need to move pretty soon anyway, as we are running low on food.

ECONOMY:

The last couple brigs went to sea; I think we are done building blockade runners for now.

[Jim D Burns]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball
WESTERN:
but I can cut that very tenuous supply. He needs to clear Island 10 before he can supply from the river.

Careful here, don’t get into the mindset of thinking you can successfully defend the Mississippi from one bank of the river only. All the Union needs to do is build a depot at New Madrid using river transports and then burn 1 supply wagon to build a depot at Osceola and boom he can suddenly pump all the supplies he needs south overland past Island 10 and threaten Memphis. This would force you to abandon Island 10 and he then takes it cheap.

As the Union it is far cheaper to burn a supply wagon and some river transports to unhinge your one sided defense than to assault Island 10 head on, especially when you only defend one side of the river. The cost in replacement chits to recover from a bloody head on battle at Island 10 makes it almost a no-brainer expenditure for him. Force him to fight for every single region no matter which side of the river it is on, you may lose but he will pay a much higher price and it’ll slow his advance to a crawl.

I'd make retaking Osceola my priority one objective right now.

Jim

[veji1]

Does he need to retake Osceola or can he isolate it by retaking the province just north of it, which is Marshes to and would offer him the possibilty to defend in marshes against the counter attack rather than attack himself a respectable force in marshes ?

[Jim D Burns]

Either approach would work, but the Union can easily reinforce New Madrid from Cairo in just a move or two depending on weather. Osceola is far enough south through difficult terrain that until he gets a functional depot up and running in New Madrid it would make sending a large body of troops there risky as weather may see them trapped with no supplies for several turns.

His window for counter-attack is limited here. If his opponent has planned things well I’d say he only has 2-4 turns before the Union position is solidified. If his opponent has not planned well and has no supply wagon or river transport nearby he may have quite a bit longer, but I wouldn’t waste any time. Pick a target and press it as hard as you can.

Edit: I just noticed the date, mud is right around the corner, so the Union has perhaps 2 turns to get a depot up and running in New Madrid before he risks trapping Lyons in the marshes with no supplies. If Lyons has a supply wagon with him he can pull supplies into Osceola from a depot at New Madrid no matter what the weather, if not then even a depot next door won’t help in really bad weather.

It can also take 3 or more turns to move from marsh region to marsh region in horrible weather, so it’s a race for both sides right now. The CSA needs to push Lyons back one region minimum to give him some breathing space for the upcoming 1862 campaign season and the Union needs to build a depot at New Madrid fast if he doesn’t want to abandon his gains here voluntarily.


Jim

[Q-Ball]

Late Sept, 1861:

This is a case of the good, the bad, and the ugly! We are doing well in some areas, not so much in others.

Let's start with the good news:

MISSOURI:

We won a battle, along with 1 National Morale point, at Jefferson City. Hurlbut, with 8700 troops, crossed the river and attacked Sterling Price with 6000 men heavily entrenched. The result was a resounding Confederate victory!

There are now a lot of Union troops though in Missouri. Our plan to draw Union forces worked, because we now need to withdraw however to avoid being outflanked. Jefferson City is not really defensible.

Still, nice to get a win!

WESTERN:

The other major victory is along the Mississippi. I sent an army of 8000 men under Polk into New Madrid, hoping to cut off Lyon. Not only did that work, but Lyon had advanced from Osceola into Hopefield! Wow!

Lyon lost a battle against the Arkansas State Guard there, and is now in deep trouble. He still hold Osceola, but not for long; I am landing a force in his rear, and the only defenders are a depleted Militia unit.

I hope to isolate and capture Lyon's forces; he has about 4000 men after some losses.

[Q-Ball]

Sept 1861: Virginia

Now the ugly; I've made a complete hash of this theater.

I made some critical mistakes early not countering his moves, and as a result, I have lost control of the Valley

More importantly, he has a foothold at Fredricksburg. It was unwise to not defend this post well, but oh well.....live and learn.

So, let's see if we can make Lemonade out of this.

We did annihilate the garrison at Alexandria; no NM win, but that felt good. High Union losses.

I need to rest and recover cohesion before taking on the troops at Falmouth or Fredricksburg

I occupy the rail line, so he cannot easily shift troops from the Valley to Virginia; I hope to take advantage of that fact.

Richmond is pretty well defended, about 12000 troops under Bobby Lee

[USSLockwood]

Just curious Q, is losing the Valley really that bad for the rebs? Seems like a backwater
to me, especially with Harper's Ferry under Federal control.

[veji1]

I would think the key here is that the weather will turn soon. Is keeping a foothold in the valley with Johnston that important or couldn't you defend in the moutain province to it east and use Johnston troops to smash his Bridgehead at frederiksburg. If you manage to dig in at Alexandria, and have artillery on the Falmoutth (sp?) province where your cavalry is, you should be able to cut his supply in Fredricksburg and the province north of it. his stacks would be in grave danger. There is a big opportunity to creat big losses for the Union here.

[veji1]

Hmm. Actually looking at the map (too late anyway, you gave your orders already) I would have used all my troops from Alexandria and Manassas (except one reg to keep the trenches there) ie Beauregard, Longstreet and all, to attack the 642 Av stack. It shouldn't be too fortifyied yet, without corps the Fredricksburg troops won't come to is aid, and with Lee and 300 odd Avs in Richmond, the Fredricksburg stack can't take Richmond. If you were to beat the stack north of the Rappahanock, he has an isolated stack stuck in Fredericksburg. Come mud he'd be kaput.. Tough decisions, but doing what you seem to be doing, ie railing lots of troops to a defensive postion in the forest west of Fredricksburg seems to be the wors of both worlds : you give you strength north of the Rappahanock without a fight, and don't try to punish his audacity, ie you let yourself being outmanouvered instead of counterattacking.

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: veji1

Hmm. Actually looking at the map (too late anyway, you gave your orders already) I would have used all my troops from Alexandria and Manassas (except one reg to keep the trenches there) ie Beauregard, Longstreet and all, to attack the 642 Av stack. It shouldn't be too fortifyied yet, without corps the Fredricksburg troops won't come to is aid, and with Lee and 300 odd Avs in Richmond, the Fredricksburg stack can't take Richmond. If you were to beat the stack north of the Rappahanock, he has an isolated stack stuck in Fredericksburg.

Couple points here.

First, you raise a really good question on the value of the Valley. I think the real life value was much higher than the game. If you look, Winchester is a VP city, but that's basically it. And Winchester is a bad position for the Rebels, because it's not directly on a rail line that connects to Central Virginia. It's too easy to get stuck out there.

The problem though is that if he is established in the Valley, come 1862 he can move from the West via Charlottesville toward Richmond. This is a real problem. Not sure what we can do about it, we'll see.

Second, you shall see that I did pretty much what you described, with a twist, and kicked the Federals back off the Rappahanock. There is one assumption though you made that is not correct: Taking Falmouth doesn't isolate Fredricksburg. This is because it can draw supply up the Rappahanock via the Potomac. It's a very good position, Michael chose well.

Late Oct, 1861:

The big news is that we turned things around in Virginia, gaining 4 NM in the process, and decisively defeating the Federals.

See the map below; this was the set-up BEFORE my turn. We had to pull additional troops from Western VA, most importantly Genl Johnston to make sure we had enough leadership.

Beauregard, with 28,000 men, lost an initial battle to 12,000 under David Hunter. That was surprising. Hunter's men, though, continued to Fredricksburg, where they were tired for the main battle. Beauregard also destroyed a force under Mansfield, 3 brigades that I think were landing at Falmount before using the RR. They were destroyed.

At Fredricksburg, 26,000 under Johnston attacked 21,000 under Butler, but Butler's men included Hunters men who were tired. The result was a huge victory, as Butler's army broke and ran from the field.

The only downside is that Manassas will almost certainly fall next turn if he has command points, as I could only leave a few units recovering cohesion.

Michael, though he has suffered alot of losses, has gained alot of ground in Virginia. 1862 is going to be tough, I can tell, and we'll need a max effort to keep him out of Richmond.

[Q-Ball]

Late Oct, 1861

Battle of Fredricksburg:

Below is the combat screen; the set-up was above.

WESTERN:

Nathanial Lyon seems to have ditched the 3500 Union troops stuck in the swamps at Osceola. They are now led by Lew Wallace. Wallace's men are evading combat, so we couldn't get a crack at them. They are stuck for sure, as I have a Cav unit in the swamps to the west, and New Madrid is occupied by 8,000 dug-in Rebs under AS Johnston.

Michael is doing something about this though; there is a massive buildup at Scott, MO under Grant (city of Charleston, across river from Cairo). He is building a Redoubt (!), and over 800 AV already. Where are they going?

With KY still neutral, he must be moving on either Island 10, or maybe even an overland campaign towards Jacks Port, and into Arkansas by the back door. We'll see, but I probably need to build more forces in this area.

MISSOURI:

After a month-long session in Jefferson City, the rightful government of Missouri is forced to flee. Price's men, after a couple combats, are really spent. Militia, even victorious militia, just does not hold up for long vs. regular troops. Reinforcements are coming up under Van Dorn, but I think we are falling back on Springfield. If Grant enters Arkansas from the NE corner, I'll probably shift over some troops. NW Arkansas isn't that important. We should have about 9,000 men by the time I collect everyone at Springfield.

FAR WEST:

This area is a mystery for me. I built a single brigade of Texans, and sent WHC Whiting out there to lead it. Whiting's force smacked around some militia, but isn't strong enough to take either Ft. Craig or Santa Fe. So, nothing to do really but head back to Ft. Bliss.

I feel like in NM, I need to either build supply wagons and make a real investment, or just hold on long enough to hold El Paso, or force the Union to launch a major campaign to take it.

I managed to get some Rangers on the gold mines in Colorado for 3 turns, disrupting production, but some Colorado troops finally chased them off. Michael is probably leaving a perm garrison now at Golden City.

[veji1]

Where did Butler retreat ? and if you put artillery at Tappahnock wouldn't you be able to interdict suply to Fredricksburg ? Are you going to go all in for Falmouth then to make sure you clean up the mess there, faced with tired and defeated Union troops ? It could really yield quite a few destroyed units, which is all that matters in terms of NM and costs for the Union.

VEry interesting situation unfolding anyway.