A Lemon rises in the East: SqzMyLemon (J) vs. JocMeister (A)

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Take that base North Of Kunming as well.

Hi Pax,

My plan is to use three divisions (including 1st Tank Division) from Burma to move on Paoshan to seal the deal in China. The nice thing about mountain fighting is the low stacking limits so I don't need a lot of strength at the pointy end to move forward.

[SqzMyLemon]

Recent events has allowed me to free up eight divisions for a reserve in China. A few of these divisions are beat up and will require rest and replenishment. The others will replace weakened divisions in the frontline allowing those to recover behind the lines.

If I can reduce two pockets this will free up another four divisions while destroying 14 Chinese LCU's. Most units are prepping for Chengtu and Chungking in preparation for the forthcoming sieges. Artillery reinforcements have arrived from the Philippines and have reached Kukong. Unfortunately, two Chinese units have blocked the Kukong-Tuyun railway so this will slow the re-deployment of the artillery.

A note on why I want to reinforce Malaya and Sumatra. Reading a number of Allied AAR's it's been noted how important the capture of Singapore is. The ship repair facilities in particular seem to be highly valued so it makes sense to me to deny the use of the port. I completely understand that what I commit to the theatre will most likely be destroyed, but denying the facilities to the Allies for as long as possible may be worth the cost in lost LCU's and buy more time for the Empire.

I'm definitely concentrating my defences on the bases that can be used for bombing the Home Islands, or those that will allow Allied escorts to reach Japan. I currently do not have any troops in the Aleutians. What can I expect in terms of the level of threat from Allied bombers operating from these islands if I do nothing?

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

I just got the next turn from Jocke and his frustration with China is clearly evident. To quote:

"I'm glad the absolute joke that is China soon is over with. Doesn't matter what you do. Without supply there is nothing you can do."

I understand his frustration. I think China is impossible to hold if Japan prioritizes defeating it under the current game design. Given the options though, I had little choice other than to concentrate on China. I don't have the strength for an Indian or Australian campaign and so much of my force is restricted that it might as well be used where it can, and that's in China. Francois pointed this out in an earlier post and I completely agree.

I feel cheated in some ways too. I performed well in china, but is it a result of strong game play on my part, poor gameplay on the part of my opponent or is China so poorly designed as to make this result inevitable? Most likely it's a combination of all three.

However, China's not knocked out yet. As far as I'm concerned it's still business as usual and there is much yet to accomplish.

It may not be able to be held ultimately, but some players have held it longer against very good opposition. Don't feel cheated, just take it and move on. You're making it hard and regardless of the game supply situation, if you hadn't closed supply inputs early he might be holding longer.

The game will give you a few good 'jokes' to deal with as you go on as well! [;)]

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

I just got the next turn from Jocke and his frustration with China is clearly evident. To quote:

"I'm glad the absolute joke that is China soon is over with. Doesn't matter what you do. Without supply there is nothing you can do."

I understand his frustration. I think China is impossible to hold if Japan prioritizes defeating it under the current game design. Given the options though, I had little choice other than to concentrate on China. I don't have the strength for an Indian or Australian campaign and so much of my force is restricted that it might as well be used where it can, and that's in China. Francois pointed this out in an earlier post and I completely agree.

I feel cheated in some ways too. I performed well in china, but is it a result of strong game play on my part, poor gameplay on the part of my opponent or is China so poorly designed as to make this result inevitable? Most likely it's a combination of all three.

However, China's not knocked out yet. As far as I'm concerned it's still business as usual and there is much yet to accomplish.

It may not be able to be held ultimately, but some players have held it longer against very good opposition. Don't feel cheated, just take it and move on. You're making it hard and regardless of the game supply situation, if you hadn't closed supply inputs early he might be holding longer.

The game will give you a few good 'jokes' to deal with as you go on as well! [;)]

Sqz,

Just because your opponent demeans or belittles your (modest) progress in the game, does not mean that you have to internalize it or assume it as a fait accompli.

You're doing what you can with what you have where you can. Assume that this victory is of your doing-it wasn't just spontaneously going to happen, for goodness sake. Hey-those Chinese aren't going to liquidate themselves-they need someone to push them along towards annihilation. You're just the man for the job! BANZAI! [&o]

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

A note on why I want to reinforce Malaya and Sumatra. Reading a number of Allied AAR's it's been noted how important the capture of Singapore is. The ship repair facilities in particular seem to be highly valued so it makes sense to me to deny the use of the port. I completely understand that what I commit to the theatre will most likely be destroyed, but denying the facilities to the Allies for as long as possible may be worth the cost in lost LCU's and buy more time for the Empire.

This is always a tough call. I'll be loitering as usual to see how it plays out for you.

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon
I'm definitely concentrating my defences on the bases that can be used for bombing the Home Islands, or those that will allow Allied escorts to reach Japan. I currently do not have any troops in the Aleutians. What can I expect in terms of the level of threat from Allied bombers operating from these islands if I do nothing?

THe issue with NOT taking ADAK is that it is the optimal launch point for the allies to go the Northern Route. As long as you hold it, a Northern offensive is high risk campaign. While he is taking it, you have time to stiffen your defenses in the North.

I assume here that you don't have Adak (I can't remember if you do or don't). If you don't, have you really have to fortify Hokkaido and I mean fortify it. Then you pretty much have to put roadblocks on all the Kuriles as well. The problem is you don't have the early warning that holding Adak gives you. The Northern route really is the IJ achilles heel. If that door is ever left open, it is really DOOM ON YOU. [:D]

[SqzMyLemon]

China:

A quiet turn. Just bombing and one deliberate attack to keep the pressure on.

R&D:

I've changed my mind...again. The Ha-42 factory after it advances will convert to the Ha-43 rather than the NE Turbojet. I'm banking a lot on aircraft that use the Ha-43 and that's where I should stay focused. I already have two factories researching the NE Turbojet to the tune of 140 research points. I may convert the smaller of the two (50) to the Ha-43 as well.

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: obvert

The game will give you a few good 'jokes' to deal with as you go on as well! [;)]

[:D] It already does, it's called Japanese ASW.

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

You're doing what you can with what you have where you can. Assume that this victory is of your doing-it wasn't just spontaneously going to happen, for goodness sake. Hey-those Chinese aren't going to liquidate themselves-they need someone to push them along towards annihilation. You're just the man for the job! BANZAI! [&o]

Once again you are the voice of reason, Andre. I'm not losing any sleep over it. China is what it is. Cheated was the wrong choice of word.

[SqzMyLemon]

China:

Chinese forces from Chungking are attempting to cut off my advance towards Chengtu. Three units have moved into the clear terrain hex due west of Chungking so far with more movement still indicated from the base. I have one division in the hex and will reinforce with another division and a tank regiment today. Bombers are ordered to target the Chinese force in clear terrain.

24 Chinese units are moving to Chengtu via Chungking. I'm bombing what I can, but I will not prevent them reaching the base prior to my forces. In fact, realizing I can't win the race to Chengtu I will look to shatter any Chinese forces caught in the Central Plains instead.

Chinese forces are blocking the road to Kunming, but they are severely over stacking the hex. The stacking limit of 20k prevents me using more than a division, but I will reinforce with artillery and wear the enemy force down prior to launching a deliberate attack.

Depending on the movement rate of a large enemy force and a few other factors there is a real possibility of isolating another 16 Chinese LCU's southeast of Chungking. It all depends on whether other Chinese units continue to withdraw to Chungking, or stay in their current hex which would allow them to open the hex side and a path to withdraw out of danger. I'm cautiously optimistic, but it all depends on the Chinese right now.

The move on Paoshan has begun. 15th Army HQ, three divisions (including the 1st Tank Division) are moving out of Lashio. These three divisions should be sufficient in capturing Paoshan, but if the forts have been built up it will take some time to reduce the base. I will use bomber units based in Burma to target Paoshan and this could draw out a Commonwealth air offensive in support of the Chinese to hamper my operations. As long as I'm conducting defensive air operations over my own forces I will engage the enemy if it commits.

The easy battles in China will soon be over. It's going to be a case of heavy mountain and base fighting against numerically superior forces, albeit an out of supply enemy, from here on out. I think the move on Poashan will be decisive if I can capture it prior to large numbers of Chinese units arriving from Central China.

[SqzMyLemon]

China:

Phase one of another attempt to encircle a large Chinese force is complete with Japanese forces reaching a hex blocking the route to Chungking prior to the enemy. Total isolation will occur if another Chinese force continues to withdraw towards Chungking rather than move to open an escape route via hex side control. 16 Chinese units are at risk totalling over 100k of troops. This would bring the total of isolated enemy units to 43! Interesting times.

Production:

Vehicle points are nearing 30k, armaments are at 94k and HI at nearing 1.3 million. I'm currently banking 10-18k supply/day and the current amount in the Home Islands is 1.4 million and growing.

The D4Y1 Judy advanced to 12/42.

Defensive Preparations:

Using JAAF and JNAF units throughout the Pacific to build fortification levels to level 4 has paid off. With more construction engineer units now available I am moving these up to replace the aviation support units to complete fortification levels to 6. The aviation support units will now redeploy to more forward positions. A reorganization of the air force will follow to ensure the perimeter is completely covered.

A few divisions are redeploying. One to Koepang and one to Singapore to act as a reserve. Another division is being deployed to Burma. I have one division in the Kuriles, one in the Marianas and another spread throughout New Guinea. As more units become available I will consolidate other positions as I go and continually reinforce the MLR. I'm concentrating defensive preparations on Formosa and the Philippines at the moment. I've already moved the Wake CD gun unit to Bataan.

Thoughts:

The lack of combat in the Pacific has allowed me to divert the supply that would have been consumed in fighting to my R&D instead. As Pax often points out, other than some expansion of supply capacity through HI or LI, Japan really operates on a finite amount of resources. The flexibility with Japan is where those resources are used and when. Do you front or back load or maintain a constant level throughout the war? I tend to front load industry and R&D in 42 and then concentrate on mid/late war aircraft. I feel I can offer the most resistance against the superior Allied forces if I do so rather than waste so many resources in combat in 42. My planes pools are kept low and I don't feel I've wasted too much HI on early aircraft.

My main engines all have over 300+ in the pools. I'm currently building up the stockpiles of Ha-32 and Ha-33 engines to 500+. I'm good for Ha-34 and Ha-35 with 500+ and 600+ respectively already in the pools. The Ha-45 may advance to 1/43 which will be a big deal for future R&D. I will be producing roughly 275 engines a month just from switching R&D factories to production and will look to generate 500+ engines a month.

The next big investment will be the Ha-43 engine which will have a total of 4-5 factories researching this powerplant. Right now it has three factories, but I may switch the Kawasaki 60 factory over once it reaches production. This would allow me to keep an additional R&D factory and switch over a production Ha-34 factory to the Kawasaki.

Once my powerplants are finalized I will produce aircraft as fast as possible to offset the eventual damage to the factories later in the war. I want airframes stockpiled, not engines. Huge stockpiles of engines will do me no good if I can't produce the airframes so pools will be allowed to decrease to a 'just in time' format in the late war.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

I feel I can offer the most resistance against the superior Allied forces if I do so rather than waste so many resources in combat in 42. My planes pools are kept low and I don't feel I've wasted too much HI on early aircraft.

You are absolutely correct of course, and this is what the Allied player can never allow. He gonna lose China AND allow you slack time to accumulate resources in '42. Both of these are tickets to a bad ride in 43/44 for the allies.

Watch Erik's AAR carefully. He's doing well, but you should be able to see better now the danger of Burma/SE Asia in the late game. I hate that whole area in '44. Start to consider now your withdrawals paths and your MLR in China. Get those requisite bases staffed now and start improving their infrastructure so that you have what you need when you need it. You have plenty of time, so any unit with even 12xEng squads will work.

Your exit paths will depend greatly upon whether you hold Kunming or not, but the overall danger of allied landings to cut you off still exists.

Singapore
Singers is always a great debate with me. Yes, the allies badly need this repair yard to sustain fleet op's. It is the only one to take BB's short of Cape Town or PH. A VERY BIG deal. The problem is the east coast ... You can make KL/Malacca/JB/ Singers a nice 4 base defensive zone that could put up a good fight. It takes a lot to neutralize 4 bases simultaneously and the allies will struggle to pull that together until '45 unless they commit their Death Star. That is what you want of course, Death Start against LBA where you have a good chance to inflict damage. All very good.

Then you look at Mersing. The reverse Mersing works just as well for the allies as it does for the IJ. You can't get there in 3 days unless you use armored units due to the terrain. That means you have to be prepared to lose a VERY expensive unit (Armor Div) defending Singers. Since you can't get there in 3 days without it, the allies can cut KL/Mal from JB/Singers and then you lose pretty quick.

So to me, this means I cannot mount a very effective defense there. Maybe I hold out 4 weeks, maybe. And whatever units I commit are gone, I have to plan total rebuilds. So 100K HI per ID ... 6 ID equivalents min, or 600K HI to delay the allies 4 weeks ... maybe. That's pretty pricey ... I could build +15,000 1E planes for that. Not sure I would take the expense.

Now if I invest the Armor Div, I only get 3 so this is a big deal, how long can I hold Singers? Not sure. But if I can repulse the Mersing landing just once, I will assuredly cost the allies at least 2 ID's, and likely 3ID equivalents. Plus, with Kami's I should be able to hit a lot of high value ships. If I put 1 Armored Div plus 12 ID's and support, could I hold the penninsula for 6 months in '44? I doubt it. And in the end, that is a lot to lose ...

If Mersing and Kuantan were RR connected, you could make a really strong defense. They aren't. And the two of them just negate any real defense of Singers. JB/Singers is just not strong enough, too easy to negate a 2 base defense.

Just some rambling thoughts ... use as you see fit.

[SqzMyLemon]

China:

The love was spread around today by Japanese bomber forces in an effort to disrupt/slow as many Chinese units as possible.

Chinese units that had moved out from Chungking were thrown back into the base with heavy losses after a deliberate attack by two divisions and an armoured regiment following bomber attacks. Chinese units in the Central Plains still have supply as FLAK is still firing and no (-) supply modifier was evident. That will change as the remaining bases come under air attack. AAR follows:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 75,45 (near Chungking)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 26024 troops, 229 guns, 199 vehicles, Assault Value = 921

Defending force 21184 troops, 99 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 551

Japanese adjusted assault: 615

Allied adjusted defense: 274

Japanese assault odds: 2 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: disruption(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
789 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 108 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 9 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 14 disabled

Allied ground losses:
7172 casualties reported
Squads: 276 destroyed, 105 disabled
Non Combat: 218 destroyed, 17 disabled
Engineers: 5 destroyed, 6 disabled
Guns lost 18 (9 destroyed, 9 disabled)
Units retreated 3

Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
15th Division
39th Division
4th Tank Regiment
51st Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion

Defending units:
2nd Chinese Corps
17th Chinese Corps
92nd Chinese Corps

At Patung, elements of 6th Division shock attacked across the river from the east to reinforce elements of 3rd Division already there. Losses were light and the last element of 6th Division will cross in two days and not have to shock attack. The defenders may have withdrawn or been forced to retreat prior to arriving though as a deliberate attack is ordered for tomorrow.

Large numbers of Chinese units are moving towards Burma. Hopefully I've moved soon enough from Lashio to bottle up these forces. I do expect to see Allied air interdiction once Jocke realizes I'm moving east from Burma. All enemy occupied hexes appear to be overstacked, so I hope this will use up what little supply is available and make it that much easier for my forces.

Production:

A new 8150 capacity tanker arrives.

Official numbers of resources in the Home Islands followed by total in the Empire:

Supply 1,421,565
Fuel 1,308,372
Resources 7,571,473
Oil 1,540,480

Empire

Supply 3,504,625
Fuel 3,504,625
Resources 13,201,835
Oil 2,049,624

I'd like to see the total available fuel amount to 2/3 in the Home Islands by mid 43. I must get more fuel to Japan...faster.

After some reduction in HI use I'm now banking 5k/day. Total is 1,284,514.

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

So to me, this means I cannot mount a very effective defense there. Maybe I hold out 4 weeks, maybe. And whatever units I commit are gone, I have to plan total rebuilds. So 100K HI per ID ... 6 ID equivalents min, or 600K HI to delay the allies 4 weeks ... maybe. That's pretty pricey ... I could build +15,000 1E planes for that. Not sure I would take the expense.

Just some rambling thoughts ... use as you see fit.

Great thoughts Pax. I have been following Erik's AAR and see the dangers. I've already started fortifying Indochina. My plan, which is always in flux, is to use LBA almost exclusively for the defence with small delaying tactics to slow the advance until fortress Singapore is attacked. The more I can get Jocke to commit to this theatre the better. I only plan on using 3-4 Divisions at Singapore initially, but depending on events that could be increased. I have to set a level I'm comfortable losing that won't undermine my defence elsewhere. If I can contest the air in the SRA, that will slow the Allies down. It's all about making Jocke pay a heavy price in the air war. I'll lose airframes in droves, but if I stick to defensive battles over my own territory I should be able to field experienced pilots throughtout the war in the best airframes I can for as long as I can. I'm not going play into his hands by giving him a free training program at my expense. I want him losing his pilots.

Here's a thought for you though. Depending on the situation, if I was to lose say 4-6 divisions in a fortress Singapore scenario, there is always the choice to NOT rebuild the divisions. I could simply eat the loss and save the HI for aircraft production instead. Japan's all about allocation of resources, if may turn out that I won't need those divisions rebuilt and can spend the HI in other areas. I need to be flexible here and see how things develop. I do think Jocke will move on Sumatra in 43 and I could make it very costly for him if I prepare properly. I could slow him down substantially. Time will tell.

[PaxMondo]

Remember that IJ and the Allies are kinda balanced on ID's ... of course late war allies ID's are far stronger. But numbers do matter if they are in supply and on defense.

You will need SO many ID's when the SOV are activated, and you can't allow them the korean penninsula. That is worse than giving up Hokkaido. And the ID's that you have to put into Singers are all category IA ... not the dregs you get later ... It is a decision.

It is so easy to get trapped in the penninsula with allied landings. We haven't seen too many AAR's go this deep, and of the few we have, only a couple have had IJ losing SE Asia. And it has always been really bad news. Look also at the mauling 1275psi is taking in SE Asia now ... it is scary reading how fast the whole thing crumbles. And he had the upper hand until recently.

But, if you have Kunming, that can help a lot. That is a huge escape route out of Burma. Thailand/SE Asia are still dangerous. It is really something to see how fast the allies can get to Vinh ... that isolates everything in SE Asia ... ouch. I had at one time thgouht/hoped that the Vinh/Vientiane/Luangprabang line could be held as an MLR against the allies. Now, I'm not so sure it can be. His AB's would all be in clear and at least 3 of mine would be in jungle. Need some more sand boxing and thinking on this one ... Did I mention that I hate Burma? [;)]

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Did I mention that I hate Burma? [;)]

You and me both. This theatre is a constant worry. Too little and you are in trouble, too much and you are in trouble. There are just so many Allied options to try and defend against. You have to hope you pick the right one or can at least transition quickly to defending the unexpected.

[SqzMyLemon]

China:

There are four deliberate attacks ordered for today. Two are against isolated pockets and the other two attempts to move one hex closer to both Kienko and Kunming. The latter two attacks are against superior yet over-stacked enemy forces. I don't expect much, but as long as the Chinese suffer greater casualties I'll be happy.

The Gilbert Islands:

I ordered a naval bombardment of Makin. I just want to remind the defenders that I haven't forgotten about them.

Thoughts:

I'm thinking about a Spring 43 offensive in the Aleutians to capture Attu. The Allies are building up Adak and Umnak Islands and I'd like to provide some measure of discomfort to any Allied plans for a Kuriles operation in the future. I'm building up the Kuriles and starting to deploy naval assets to the theatre. I have also finally figured out how to change the bases from 5th Fleet control to General Defence so I've begun deploying additional air ASW and naval search to the region.

There's some small enemy naval activity around the northwest coast of Australia. I may try and conduct a few naval raids to upset Allied operations in the theatre. It's time to start poking the bear to see the response.

[SqzMyLemon]

I've begun breaking down bomber and patrol units training into their three components and set each 1/3 to a different skill to develop. My hope is that I can get a unit to be functional much sooner and have the lower skills developed through daily operations. I'll see how this goes.

I've got something like 80+ pilots in TRACOM, but don't recall seeing a single note yet on advancement within the training program.

My Ops losses are mounting again. I'm setting higher levels of rest and reducing the number of aircraft performing missions. I shudder at the amount of VP's being given away for free, not to mention the pilot losses. I just lost an Ace performing routine CAP and crashing upon landing. Japan and their low endurance aircraft. [8|]

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

I've begun breaking down bomber and patrol units training into their three components and set each 1/3 to a different skill to develop. My hope is that I can get a unit to be functional much sooner and have the lower skills developed through daily operations. I'll see how this goes.

I've got something like 80+ pilots in TRACOM, but don't recall seeing a single note yet on advancement within the training program.

My Ops losses are mounting again. I'm setting higher levels of rest and reducing the number of aircraft performing missions. I shudder at the amount of VP's being given away for free, not to mention the pilots losses. I just lost an Ace performing routine CAP and crashing upon landing. Japan and their low endurance aircraft. [8|]

Also it's good to rotate units out and stand them down completely. Not that I do this often, but it allows the maintenance to get them back to 0 fatigue, and then there will be fewer ops losses. I've been shocked at times seeing how beat up my planes were after a while on CAP.

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: obvert

Also it's good to rotate units out and stand them down completely. Not that I do this often, but it allows the maintenance to get them back to 0 fatigue, and then there will be fewer ops losses.

You know, I've never even thought about doing that, but it makes total sense in my situation due to the complete absence of an air war at the moment. I mean, I fly CAP so I'm always prepared for an attack, but to supply a reserve unit and allow the other to rest while the times are quiet is brilliant. Thanks Erik.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

ORIGINAL: obvert

Also it's good to rotate units out and stand them down completely. Not that I do this often, but it allows the maintenance to get them back to 0 fatigue, and then there will be fewer ops losses.

You know, I've never even thought about doing that, but it makes total sense in my situation due to the complete absence of an air war at the moment. I mean, I fly CAP so I'm always prepared for an attack, but to supply a reserve unit and allow the other to rest while the times are quiet is brilliant. Thanks Erik.

Also, if you're doing this and he's not, then you're more likely to have the fresh planes and get fewer lost when damaged in combat. This is especially true of CV planes, which players necessarily keep on CAP and search continually. Standing down is tough though with service 3 Judys, and then they fix for over a week as koniu pointed out recently in another thread.

If you know you're jumping something though, and you have time to prepare keep them off and then only just before heading in get the CAP up.