Consultation: Patching the naval game

[Templer_12]

I'm not saying, it is easy to kill U-boats.
I say that the design decision as the U-boat war is visually presented is unacceptable to me.

Whether the U-boats should do more damage to convoy?
I do not know.
Could it be, that later, cause by advancing technologies and the upgrading of the submarines, that they will do more damage?
I do not know. Because I do not like the design of the submarine warfare, I have until now always dispense with the use of U-boats (Which is a shame).

U-boats dive.
I want to visually see this (and maybe hear an alarm tone).
Therefore my reference to Strategic Command.

That issue annoys me even more, than Lordz Games Studios, as they prove with the game and also briefly demonstrated in Panzercorps, have excellent Artdesigner at hand.

[operating]

I'm not a history nut, but do know that CP subs attacked frequently on the surface to allow enemy crews to abandon ship early in the war. Unresticted/give no quarter was quite another affair later in the war. In otherwords, not exposing oneself to counterattack. So I see merit to Templer's issue.

[Rasputitsa]

ORIGINAL: Templer

I'm not saying, it is easy to kill U-boats.
I say that the design decision as the U-boat war is visually presented is unacceptable to me.

Whether the U-boats should do more damage to convoy?
I do not know.
Could it be, that later, cause by advancing technologies and the upgrading of the submarines, that they will do more damage?
I do not know. Because I do not like the design of the submarine warfare, I have until now always dispense with the use of U-boats (Which is a shame).

U-boats dive.
I want to visually see this (and maybe hear an alarm tone).
Therefore my reference to Strategic Command.

That issue annoys me even more, than Lordz Games Studios, as they prove with the game and also briefly demonstrated in Panzercorps, have excellent Artdesigner at hand.

This is a 20 day game turn and not about a particular U-boat diving, or surfacing, the sub icon represents several subs in an area of sea, just as the surface ship icon represents several surface vessels. The sub icon becoming 'visible' means that the enemy know there are subs in the area and will start searching for them, with the possible combat.

The map represents the display in a High Command HQ, the fact that the sub icon is visible on this strategic scale game map means that enemy subs have been reported in a certain area and combat may have taken place, it is not a tactical display and does not mean that subs are actually visible on the surface.

Combat is the result of nearly three weeks activity during a game turn, and considering the need to abstract the action at this strategic scale, it works reasonably well. Whether, or not, the combat odds and chances for detection are historically correct is debatable. [:)]

[Hellfirejet]

The game has improved considerably since first launch, and with the latest patch the naval game is getting better, submarines I feel should still be more effective both in attack and defence, as per history the German U Boats very nearly brought Britain to its knees, due to the tonnage losses of merchants ships, so much so that they were the number one enemy at sea in the mid to late war years.[;)]

[Hellfirejet]

Commander The Great War Naval Game.

1 = Warships being at sea for the duration off the war has to stop, in world war 1 this was impossible, so in order to fix this problem,a drastic solution needs to be implemented, I suggest that Battleships and cruisers be treated as per land artillery, ie they need to replenish their magazines after combat, which would require the ships to return to port. Plus more over, shell production as per land artillery,should be a vital requirement.

2 = Cruisers should have limited ability to conduct shore bombardments.

3 = Players Disbanding Battlefleet's should incur a national morale penalty off at least 50% to discourage gamers from even contemplating such drastic steps.In most cases a countries battlefleet was an essential part off their military force, and its loss would constitute a national disaster,from which it would be hard to recover.

4 = The AI should be encouraged to disengage its fleets, when the fleet strenght equals 50%, its better to survive and fight another day should be the norm in naval combat, for everyone and not just the AI.[;)]

5 = The ability to surround fleets at sea blocking there escape route, needs to be removed from the game, all ships wanting to disengage should be allowed to do so, as per history ships of the loosing fleet, would retreat under the cover off a smoke screen, and due to the distances involved in naval combat it is impossible to be able to barr every escape route.

[jjdenver]

ORIGINAL: Myrddraal
NB: Patching a game isn't the same as modding a game.
When you’re modding a game, anything goes. You can rip up the rule book and start again. When patching a game with an official you have to be a lot more careful. For example:
You might create a mod where any unit in the enemy red zone loses 1 hp per turn, to simulate losses due to mines. Anyone who downloads your mod will know exactly what their getting, no nasty surprises. But many more players will download a patch than a mod, and many of these won’t be forum posters. If we include something similar in a patch, we’d have to be very careful about how this new rule was introduced to the player, possibly with a new overlay on the map showing ‘mined’ hexes in such as way as the player is immediately aware that something has changed. Otherwise we’d be much more likely to be flooded with bug reports (My fleet hp is falling every turn, this game is borked!!!) than happy customers.

I think you're selling the intelligence and adaptability of your installed buyer base short here. Yes many won't visit the forum but if you display patch notes I think users will be delighted to see improvements to the game. Getting new features and improvements for a game that you enjoy is like christmas. Don't aim so low - aim to make your game the best and I think most will end up happy.

[jack54]

ORIGINAL: kirk23

Commander The Great War Naval Game.

1 = Warships being at sea for the duration off the war has to stop, in world war 1 this was impossible, so in order to fix this problem,a drastic solution needs to be implemented, I suggest that Battleships and cruisers be treated as per land artillery, ie they need to replenish their magazines after combat, which would require the ships to return to port. Plus more over, shell production as per land artillery,should be a vital requirement.

2 = Cruisers should have limited ability to conduct shore bombardments.

3 = Players Disbanding Battlefleet's should incur a national morale penalty off at least 50% to discourage gamers from even contemplating such drastic steps.In most cases a countries battlefleet was an essential part off their military force, and its loss would constitute a national disaster,from which it would be hard to recover.

4 = The AI should be encouraged to disengage its fleets, when the fleet strenght equals 50%, its better to survive and fight another day should be the norm in naval combat, for everyone and not just the AI.[;)]

5 = The ability to surround fleets at sea blocking there escape route, needs to be removed from the game, all ships wanting to disengage should be allowed to do so, as per history ships of the loosing fleet, would retreat under the cover off a smoke screen, and due to the distances involved in naval combat it is impossible to be able to barr every escape route.

I like each of these suggestions 'very much'!

[Hellfirejet]

I have been playing this game for months,and it has just dawned on me, how come Scapa Flow is a City ? Anyway I have changed it and it is now downgraded to a Fortress with PP.[;)]

[Hellfirejet]

Another thing that has just dawned on me,after months of playing the game,is how come you can Move & Attack in one turn, but you can't Attack & Move ? If you attack your turn is over for that unit,why can't you ATTACK and then move.[&:]

No wonder the game is strange from a naval stand point,when you can't use hit & run tactics ?[:-]

[jack54]

ORIGINAL: kirk23

If you attack your turn is over for that unit,why can't you ATTACK and then move.[&:]

No wonder the game is strange from a naval stand point,when you can't use hit & run tactics ?[:-]

This would be the biggest and the best change for the naval rules IMHO... I could not understand it but something was missing and that's it. (I don't mind the restriction in land combat so much as it helps give a WW1 feel), but the naval game, would totally change, I believe in a good way,. How many times have I known an attack was suicide?... attack and then sit and wait. Imagine disappearing under fog of war, a whole new game. but can the AI handle it... I think so..

Edit: true hit and run would of course be 'move,attack, move' but that's not going to happen so 'attack move' or 'move attack' would be an improvement.

[Hellfirejet]

I think at least for the naval game this is a must have,I mean to say, imagine how much more effective submarines would be in game,if they could use their stealth ability,to be lying in wait on the convoy route,and the first thing the merchant ships know,is that they are being hit with torpedos,then the subs moves and repositions its self.This I feel would enhanced the naval game,because the important convoys would need an escort for protection![:)]

[Hellfirejet]

Update to naval game I'm play testing at the present time, with the game designers saying that Destroyers, will be included in a future patch, I have changed the whole idea of the Battle fleet unit, the Battle fleet & Cruiser fleet are deemed to have destroyers as a screening force only, meaning there main job is to protect the Capital ships, and not go of chasing Submarines.The roll of attacking Submarines is the Destroyer units job. More over on the Tech Development, only the new Destroyer units can use Depth Charge Technology etc.


The added bonus to the game, of only having the new Destroyer units, as a threat to the Submarine. Is that the Central Powers player, can now build more Submarines in the knowledge, that only the Destroyer is it's true enemy, while the Allied player needs to build Destroyers to counter the Submarine threat, with the result we now have a cat and mouse naval game to play![:D]

German Submarine Force 1914–1918


1914 = 29 ( In game terms 3 U Boat flotilla units at 10 submarines per unit )

1915 = 54 ( In game terms 5 U Boat flotilla units at 10 submarines per unit )

1916 = 133 ( In game terms 13 U Boat flotilla units at 10 submarines per unit )

1917 = 142 ( In game terms 14 U Boat flotilla units at 10 submarines per unit )

1918 = 134 ( In game terms 13 U Boat flotilla units at 10 submarines per unit )

The German U-boat force was now primarily based at Ostend in Belgium, giving the submarines better access to the sea lanes around England. The Germans made use of this advantage, sending out about 20 U-boats to begin the naval blockade.

Submarine warfare.

In 1914 the U-boat's chief advantage was to submerge; surface ships had no means to detect a submarine underwater,

and no means to attack even if they could, while in the torpedo the U-boat had a weapon that could sink an armoured

warship with one shot. Its disadvantages were less obvious, but became apparent during the campaign. While

submerged the U-boat was virtually blind and immobile; boats of this era had limited underwater speed and

endurance, so needed to be in position before an attack took place, while even on the surface their speed (around

15 knots) was less than the cruising speed of most warships and two thirds that of the most modern dreadnoughts.

The U-boats scored a number of impressive successes, and were able to drive the Grand Fleet from its base in search

of a safe anchorage, but the German Navy was unable to erode the Grand Fleet's advantage as hoped. Also, in the two

main surface actions of this period the U-boat was unable to have any effect; the High Seas Fleet was unable to

draw the Grand Fleet into a U-boat trap. Whilst warships were travelling at speed and on an erratic zigzag course

they were relatively safe, and for the remainder of the war the U-boats were unable to mount a successful attack on

a warship travelling in this manner.


NB :
The Battlefleet has been renamed Battle squadron consisting of 10 battleships only.

The Battleship has been renamed Dreadnought.

[Hellfirejet]

NAVAL MOVEMENT ALLOWANCE TWEAK.

The naval movement off 1 hex per movement point is to much, the sea hexes need to have the same affect as land movement, IE per terrain type, the sea is not a calm boating pond, in most cases it is quite rough or even stormy with very high seas,so I think that the standard off 2 movement points per hex should be the norm.
This movement restriction would aid the naval game when any combat occurs,by reducing the range that nearby friendly units can react and assist in any combat.Meaning that ships will survive longer if its harder to swarm like bees around a target ship from great distances!

NB: THIS MOVEMENT RESTRICTION ONLY APPLIES TO WARSHIPS AND NOT CONVOYS OR TROOP TRANSPORTS.