Women Warriors Please

[Ajantaka]

I want to thank the developers for making what looks to be an excellent game in an area of strategy games that is sorely neglected.

But could you please include some female warriors and heroes in the unit mix? Women have fought in most of the wars on Earth and then been written out of the history books by male historians, though thankfully this has changed in the las 20-30 years, and you are doing a fantasy world where you can do what you want anyway so why no female fighters?

In the examples you have posted of units I see two females, a naked Dyad and a Hag. I don't mind the nakedness but I do mind the small percentage of the total of warriors who are females and the tendency towards sterotypical images. There are women gamers, more than you suppose, and I am sure they are tired of seeing females appear only in such modes in games. The idea that women are not interested in war would come as a surprise to the growing number of professional military historians who are women.

So please ad a military feminine dimension to your game. It will draw women gamers and I doubt the males will object either. And please don't make all the females (of whatever fantasy race) all beautiful/skinny/young/buxom. The Amazons of the ancient world from the tribes of the Caucas and what is now southern Ukraine, the women combat infantry of the U.S. Civil War, and the Russian snipers, tank crew and aircraft crew of WWII were not all beautiful/skinny/young/buxom but they were brave and skillful warriors nontheless.

Thanks for listening. I am not trying to raz you, just offering a suggestion to make the game, which looks to be wonderful, even better and more attractive to all.

[balto]

-1 on this post. All should be beautiful/skinny/young/buxom.

[Breca]

How about a Valkyrie from Jotland...
And yes, we need to move those icons down here too.

[Ajantaka]

Here is the problem with skinny/young/beautiful (I will let buxom slide).

Excessive thinness is unrealistic. Just look at movies where they use starlets who fit the above attributes. They obviously couldn't pick up a real battle sword or ax and can barely pick up one of the light fakes used for films. They just look silly when they fight. Women warriors will have muscles and some bulk, both of which are needed for hand to hand combat.

Young. Well, ok. Most soldiers of all ages are young but in an age of battle by blade those who survived long also aged. Especially should the 'heroes' not all be young. Young generals are very rare.

Beautiful. First, standards of beauty vary greatly. What I meant when I used the word was that kind of sappy, saccarine Hollywood, Elf-woman-art, prettiness. But that is also what many people, women as well as men, find beautiful. All I am asking for is a variety of kinds of faces and a variety of kinds of bodies. Second, warriors with blades, especially those who have survived long, have taken wounds and have scars, almost without exception. To have all the women warriors looking like starlets who have just come from the beauty parlor is absurd. This is one of the main reasons the films with women warriors are so preposterous; they can engage in bloody blade battle and it doesn't even smudge their makeup. We are seeking realism here, not stimulation. Don't mind some flesh but in proportion. Believe it or not some people think strong women with strong bodies are beautiful. Bodies and faces vary in the real world and, presumably, in this fantasy world and so should their representations.

[Ajantaka]

The Valkyrie from Jotland is ok but once again, she would have scars, especially if she goes into battle with a bare belly. But her face is good; not sappy pretty and determined and fierce.

[stormbringer3]

Ajantaka,
"the woman combat infantry of the U.S. Civil War" intrigues me. Please elaborate.
Thank you.

[Ajantaka]

Hi stormbringer3,

Scholars have now identified ove 250 women, north and south, but I think more from the north, who disguised themselves as men and fought as infantry. They endured all the same heavy marching, living out in harsh weather and other physical trials as the men. Many of them fought in some of the bloodiest battles of the war, Antietam, Chancellorsville, Gettysbury and were decorated for bravery. So much for the myth that women can't fight in the infantry. Now if these women wanted to fight so much that they ran all the risks of social stigma and prejudice how many women would have volunteered if it had been legal? Not as many as the men who joined surely, given the mores of the time. But it would probably have been some thousands. Both sides wasted a valuable asset because of bigotry.

And it was bigotry at issue, as it has always been when it comes to women in combat. Just as one southern politician said that the South couldn't enroll blacks as soldiers because if the blacks fought bravely and skillfully then the entire southern theory of race based slavery was proved wrong if both sides had let women fight and they did so as bravely and skillfully as many of those for whom we have historical records then the entire system of keeping women legally and politically inferior would collapse.

But let me not stray from the topic of women as soldiers. The top Russian female sniper of WWII killed almost a thousand Germans, many of them officers. It is possible that women make even better snipers than men because they can stay motionless easier longer. Soviet women served in every branch of the services including infantry and there was even an entire group of night trained bombers crewed entirely by women. The myth that women are weak things who cannot endure combat has never been true. It may be true that because of brute physical strength a greater percentage of men than women can function in combat but what reason is that to deny all women? Might as well say that because some men are too weak for combat none should be allowed.

If you are interested in the topic just google Women and War. A number of excellent popular and scholarly books have been published in the past 20 years or so that demolish the myth that women can't fight.

[Ajantaka]

I forgot to ad that most of the women civil war infantry were eventually found out when they were wounded or became ill and were examined by doctors. They were then immediately thrown out of the army, even those who had superior combat records. The only happy note is that a number of them were given pensions for having served, the govt thus admitting, if rather sheepishly, that women had served and served with distinction.

[ASHBERY76]

LOL stop watching GI jane..Get a male vs female paintball match arranged in your local area and see some reality for yourself.

[Ajantaka]

Ashbery76,

I have no idea what your reply means. I gave historical examples of a serious subject and you reply something about male-female paintball. Strategy and war games and their forums is not, or should be, a boys club only.

[TheGrayMouser]

I disagree that scars should required for all warrior type art/portraits. Theres likely more examples of men and women fighting for long periods of time in close combat and not having visible scars then not. Adding signs of maiming to every portrait would detract from "realism", not add

[Ajantaka]

Gray Mouser,

I did not mean that all portraits should have scars. What I am reacting against are all the pictures you see in these types of games of beautiful young women, though mostly men, who look like they just came from the hair salon. What I am really asking for is that faces and body types of men, and women, warriors in games reflect those of real life rather than being all some kind of saccarine perfection. It may be a fantasy world but unless we assume that everybody in it looks like a male model with gigantic muscles or a female pin-up then the people, or dwarves or elves ect., need to look reallistic. And when some of the forum ask for a portrait to be 'hot' let me point out again there is no such thing as a universally accepted standard of physical beauty. What is 'hot' to one person is silly to another. What is 'hot' to that person may even be repellant to another. We all tend to make the mistake of assuming that our standard of beauty, what turns us on, is also what turns everybody on.